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Thread: Healthy vs. Unhealthy LSEs

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    Default Healthy vs. Unhealthy LSEs

    Have you known an unhealthy LSE? What are they like? Do you think the unhealthy behavior differs by subtype?
    You can also talk about healthy LSEs, or what in your opinion is in the realm of healthy behavior for the type, including ostensibly "negative" traits perhaps (such as "periodic outbreaks of rage" for example)


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    I can, for example, imagine an unhealthy LSE as brash, even callous or cruel, have control issues to the point of harassment/abuse, and disparaging, berating anything that isn't perfectly logical (Te specifically); I can imagine them easily showing some traits that overlap with NPD:
    Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance

    • Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
    • Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
    • Exaggerate achievements and talents
    • Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
    • Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
    • Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
    • Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
    • Take advantage of others to get what they want
    • Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
    • Be envious of others and believe others envy them
    • Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
    • Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office
    • Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
    • Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
    • React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
    • Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior
    • Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change
    • Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection
    • Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation
    I imagine this kind of LSE more likely than not would be LSE-Te though (?)


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    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    Have you known an unhealthy LSE? What are they like? Do you think the unhealthy behavior differs by subtype?
    You can also talk about healthy LSEs, or what in your opinion is in the realm of healthy behavior for the type, including ostensibly "negative" traits perhaps (such as "periodic outbreaks of rage" for example)
    Yeah. Experience says unhealthy behavior can be found in any subtype.

    The most unhealthy LSE I know is my uncle. He is a strong Te subtype, an educated man, and self-sacrificing father - however, he is crude in his treatment of others and is clueless of his impact on people’s internal states. He professes to not care about them altogether at times - although an Fi reprimand from me or his ESI daughter will disarm his otherwise haughty demeanor. He rejects without reason anything that causes him cognitive dissonance - if another’s viewpoint diverges from his understanding in the least, he shuts it down with ad hominem attacks. His anger manifests in loud, aggressive, and threatening ways that alienate others. This has affected his ability to, for example, hold down a job and maintain a rapport with his family.

    My uncle has been difficult for me to get along with as long as I can remember, but I believe his marriage to his SEI wife has contributed to his mental health problems. She disdains him and sees him as a competitor (they share a profession) rather than a husband. Without going into detail, their altercations sometimes become physical, and he can furthermore take this out on others. He has expressed this has worn on him, but I don’t think they’re going to part anytime soon. I believe if he had married an EII he would be in a better place mentally, emotionally, and materially. Not an EII like me, but like an enneagram 9 or 2.

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    I have a good friend who is an LSE-Te and, while he is the best engineer I know, I think he has been and can be pretty toxic to his family.

    He competes with his sons, and always has. When they don't come up to his impossible and greater-age-related standards, he puts them down mercilessly as failures at life, the universe, and everything.

    He has four kids. The oldest daughter got married and escaped early. The next son bowed down and joined the family business, but recently decided to move to the other side of the country for his and his own family's health, the next boy failed at everything except crashing a motorcycle and is in a wheelchair, and the youngest daughter refused to leave home and is one of the most passive-aggressive people I've ever met.

    But the LSE, to me, is a great guy.

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    Oops. Almost forgot my LSE-Te mother. She was pretty unhealthy. My sisters and I feel that she was a violent narcissist.

    She really never wanted to be a mother and took out her frustration on her three kids. I'm not sure she was all that keen on being a wife, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Oops. Almost forgot my LSE-Te mother. She was pretty unhealthy. My sisters and I feel that she was a violent narcissist.

    She really never wanted to be a mother and took out her frustration on her three kids. I'm not sure she was all that keen on being a wife, either.
    Do you think an Fi lead might have gotten through to her at all or did she seem...rather beyond help?


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    "I can, for example, imagine an unhealthy LSE as brash, even callous or cruel, have control issues to the point of harassment/abuse, and disparaging, berating anything that isn't perfectly logical -- to them, they do illogical stuff all the time -- (Te specifically); I can imagine them easily showing some traits that overlap with NPD:

    Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
    -- I'd say no to this, more like a lack of foresight and understanding of others' feelings


    • Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
    • Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
    • Exaggerate achievements and talents
    • Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate -- money
    • Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people -- so much, lol. Tho it's not about special but superiority, most peeps are morons, low-life, only god-like peeps are good enough.
    • Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
    • Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
    • Take advantage of others to get what they want -- still tend to help out without expectations
    • Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
    • Be envious of others and believe others envy them -- not at all
    • Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious -- seems very friendly and nice to strangers
    • Insist on having the best of everything - for instance, the best car or office
    • Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
    • Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
    • React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior -- impatience
    • Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior -- impatience
    • Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change -- anger, also this thing where changing her mind and acting as if it has always been so, expecting people to catch up... out of telepathy I guess
    • Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection -- anger it is, lashing out at family mostly.
    • Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation -- likely but unsaid"


    ----
    I crossed what doesn't fit and bolded, underlined what suited my mom before. My comments in purple, quote messed up, lol. She never meant to be cruel, she was stressed, unhappy about having no control over things, and lashed out at family. I wouldn't call her any subtype tbh. To me, she's still a child honestly, been feeling this way since I was 6.
    Also, she was the only j between the 4 of us so that probably didn't help.
    That's just one person who doesn't exist anymore, I mean she changed in the past 5-10 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    Do you think an Fi lead might have gotten through to her at all or did she seem...rather beyond help?
    Well now, @asd, that's a great question. All her life, my LSE-Te mother denigrated people who weren't rational thinkers. She married an SLI-Te. But she didn't have a lot of friends, and none of them seemed to be Feelers.

    Near the end of her life, she descended into full Alzheimer's and she no longer tried to mask her anger. She didn't know who I was when I visited her, but she'd insult me anyway. She looked at women as competitors and at men as threats to her safety, and since I was a male, she instantly hated me. In the nursing home, she stabbed a male nurse and just avoided all men in the place.

    So I was surprised when I visited her one day and found her engrossed in a conversation with a man who also was deep into Alzheimer's. I went over to them and introduced myself to them (again) and sat down and the man continued with his story while my mother glared at me. But she soon stopped paying attention to me and focused on him.

    He was telling a story about his life working for a used car dealer and he made exactly zero sense. His sentences would start out on one subject and would end up being about something completely different. My mother just listened to him talk, and seemed to be enjoying the experience immensely. I had never, in my entire life, seen her take to anyone like that. I'm sure that he didn't know what he was saying, nor did she, but the cadence and tone of his voice completely enthralled her.

    I'm pretty sure the guy was EII.

    I never saw them together again; the men at that place seemed to have a fairly short life span there, but my father told me that he suspected that his wife was having an affair. Which is ridiculous, but by then, he was starting to lose it, too.

    They both died about six months later, of COVID, I believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Well now, @asd, that's a great question. All her life, my LSE-Te mother denigrated people who weren't rational thinkers. She married an SLI-Te. But she didn't have a lot of friends, and none of them seemed to be Feelers.

    Near the end of her life, she descended into full Alzheimer's and she no longer tried to mask her anger. She didn't know who I was when I visited her, but she'd insult me anyway. She looked at women as competitors and at men as threats to her safety, and since I was a male, she instantly hated me. In the nursing home, she stabbed a male nurse and just avoided all men in the place.

    So I was surprised when I visited her one day and found her engrossed in a conversation with a man who also was deep into Alzheimer's. I went over to them and introduced myself to them (again) and sat down and the man continued with his story while my mother glared at me. But she soon stopped paying attention to me and focused on him.

    He was telling a story about his life working for a used car dealer and he made exactly zero sense. His sentences would start out on one subject and would end up being about something completely different. My mother just listened to him talk, and seemed to be enjoying the experience immensely. I had never, in my entire life, seen her take to anyone like that. I'm sure that he didn't know what he was saying, nor did she, but the cadence and tone of his voice completely enthralled her.

    I'm pretty sure the guy was EII.

    I never saw them together again; the men at that place seemed to have a fairly short life span there, but my father told me that he suspected that his wife was having an affair. Which is ridiculous, but by then, he was starting to lose it, too.

    They both died about six months later, of COVID, I believe.
    This...is profoundly shocking. To see how duality affects a person on such a instinctual level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    This...is profoundly shocking. To see how duality affects a person on such a instinctual level.
    Yes, PinKDiGiT18, I thought it was shocking, too. I mean, my mother was extremely smart in her day and was reduced to the mental state of a three year old, or less, but once she'd lost everything else, including, I think, a lot of her baggage, she revealed a deep attraction for what I think was a Dual.

    This is just one reason I'm not looking to date any type other than a Dual. As a bright, young adult, my mother married a Mirror, the only one in her Quadra who was Logical and thus "acceptable", but I never saw her react to my father the way she reacted to that guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Yes, PinKDiGiT18, I thought it was shocking, too. I mean, my mother was extremely smart in her day and was reduced to the mental state of a three year old, or less, but once she'd lost everything else, including, I think, a lot of her baggage, she revealed a deep attraction for what I think was a Dual.

    This is just one reason I'm not looking to date any type other than a Dual. My mother married a Mirror, the only one in her Quadra who was Logical and thus "acceptable", but I never saw her react to my father the way she reacted to that guy.
    Exactly...you know something that’s funny is that it seems other people can spot a dual pair faster than the duals themselves at times. My LIE-Te SIL is a complete mirror image of an ESI-Fi I used to know in the things that get on their nerves and what they strive to attain, even though each didn’t know the other existed. I just realized my ESE best friend’s younger sister is LSE-Si, and when I told my friend she said “yes, I feel that she is” which is the first time she’s ever said that regarding my thoughts on her sister’s type.

    Also, I’m sorry for what you and your siblings endured with your mom. Being a dual of her type, I can’t even imagine what that was like.

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    Jung types are psyche accentuations. There are no "healthy" disorders. The more Jung type is expressed - the lesser "healthy" a human is in this trait.

    Among what relates to Jung types and people positive/negative perception is:
    1) problems of weak functions, when people behave worse than could by social norms (the more a type is expressed the more this will be, though some positive traits as higher IQ may compensate this to some degree);
    2) IR theory. With bad IR you may perceive as "wrong" what that human does in own strong regions as it's hard for you to process more adequately that data due to your own psyche disorder as Jung type. And due to your IR when the use done by his strong regions do not compensate enough (in your perception) the negative done by weak regions. Mistype someone with bad IR to good IR and you'll get "wrong" one.

    And there are other traits besides Jung types, which may influence on positive/negative perception. Body look, trained social skills, positive mood, etc. What is not this forum's theme.

    Also most here have bad typing skills to ask them about experience with people of some types. >50% of their typing will be wrong and their experience may relate to people of other types than they think with significant chance. And with bad typology understanding they may talk about traits which are not from Jung types, as there are other factors which may influence on same behavior. Or relate to other Jung types or do not relate significantly to Jung types at all.
    Then. It useful to know a human good and informally so Jung types related behavior and types influence was seen good. In farther personal distance nontypes factors influence is higher on overal impression and interpretation. There are not many people known to discuss nuances of their types related behavior and hence the experience about types related behavior of many people mb significantly distorted, especially when who tell have no practice in watching people with correct types and so no good typology understanding.

    In your case of possible IEI, almost all LSE in closer communication you'll think as significantly wrong. Including because you may annoy them by your traits and get reactions which annoy you in return. When you'll think some LSE (in your opinion) as "healthy" - good chance it's other type with better IR with you, as close ST types. Or not often case of a human with positive non-Jung types traits which compensated bad IR still, as sexual attraction for a example, what additionally predisposes to think about him better then is.

    -

    On your example. In my perception you'd be "wrong" (unhealthy by housewife magazines dictionary) EII. Cause you are not this type and hence do not behave how such types would do. And do not give positive enough impression expected by IR. If I'd know you better mb I'd noticed more problems in non-Jung types regions (or where they mix with the influence of other factors) to reduce the impression how "healthy" example of EII you are.
    To perceive as "too wrong" a dual (of other sex) is rare case. They may be weird in some situations and in some traits, but overal impression is positive. At least, when you are not geting conflicts with them which annoyed you recently. It's easier to forgive such people too, to fix negative impression to neutral at least - as duals remind cute kids. Stable weird impression - doubtful for duals. Think about types in such cases - your and of those people. Instead of develpping new strange theories about "objectively healthy" kinds of disorders, what Jung types are.
    Maritsa/Beautiful sky here is emotionally weird and alien "EII" in my perception. Cause she has EIE. For people with LSI she should be more positive in the perception. It's not wrong dual EII, it's superego EIE. Same you are wrong "EII" for me, as it's not EII. While I and most other LSE are "unhealthy" and alien for you.
    Last edited by Sol; 05-29-2021 at 09:09 AM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    After some more contemplation, I want to include some thoughts here about duality as related to instinctual stackings.
    The coolest LSE-Te I knew was an sp/sx. She was a person I could count on during difficulty and demonstrated care and understanding without judgment of my weaknesses.
    My uncle is, I believe, an sp/so. Least compatible with sx/so (my type). My LSE ex was so/sp. Sx-last and I just don’t seem to fare well regardless of what the nature of the relationship is.
    My LSE-Si cousin may be so/sx. Being together is remarkably comfortable, but dull. We don’t really understand what motivates the other.
    Generally speaking, I think enneagram + instinctual stacking compatibility can affect how we get along with each of our dual subtypes. I prefer a partner who has sp somewhere on their radar, but when they don’t value sx at all, there is conflict.

    I wonder if these things can skew our view of another type as healthy vs unhealthy.
    Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 05-30-2021 at 12:51 AM.

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    Unhealthy LSE I think would be very bigoted and heartless. To me, it is kind of the stereotypical archetype of 'close-minded Republican asshole.' If "Healthy" IEI is praised for being accepting of other people's weaknesses- "Unhealthy" LSE would probably be cruel/unforgiving to people's weak points or even their gray ambiguities. ((or maybe just so dense with this stuff to even appropriately realize them cuz of Ni polr as well that it comes off that way)) It's like nobody is real to them unless they are this picture perfect EII Cleric type- but it's probably so deranged and unrealistic that not even most EIIs could really fulfill that realistically.

    Luckily I got along okay with my LSE-Si boss. There were a few times that she was too confident of insights that she was actually quite wrong about- but she really wasn't a bad person. For some reason my ESE mom really didn't like her though- and I got along much better with her than she did. Maybe somebody can explain why socionically?

    Oh my dorky mind is obsessed with giving RPG classes to types again. Tee hee hee. EII = Holy Cleric. IEI = Dark Cleric. ?

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    If information processing structures actually became unstable (unhealthy?), it would be impossible to predict the outcomes - like any other a brain dysfunction. Would say a schizophrenic LSE feel more self-important than an EII one? Would LSEs coming out of an internment camp exhibit more trauma than any other type? Now personalities tend to pick up idiosyncrasies or become jaded due to life experiences but type usually remains constant. One does not blame the operating system because apps go wonky. Type in a demon can be the same and as healthy as that of an angel; we just have to be careful as to how much of "bad" behaviour is actually attributed to type itself.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 05-30-2021 at 05:45 PM. Reason: grammar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    If information processing structures actually became unstable (unhealthy?), it would be impossible to predict the outcomes - like any other a brain dysfunction. Would say a schizophrenic LSE feel more self-important than an EII one? Would LSEs coming out of an internment camp exhibit more trauma than any other type? Now personalities tend to pick up idiosyncrasies or become jaded due to life experiences but type usually remains constant. One does not blame the operating system because apps go wonky. Type in a demon can be the same and as healthy as that of an angel; we just have to be careful as to how much of "bad" behaviour is actually attributed to type itself.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Yes, and I was thinking initially "It depends on what part is broken / hurt / unhealthy." Although I guess most inner unhealth comes from a lack of confidence in one's own value + lack of human connection (which are tied together).



    I do think that "unhealthy" LSEs can tend toward controlling behavior as well as relational sabotaging. They can also take on victim-y attitudes, as in "I'm the victim; everyone (or people I care about) is out to get me while I'm just trying to help and be good."

    I've seen outbursts, of anger as well as other emotion, as ways to influence or control someone else, yes. The clever-inclined ones can use their ability to observe and their cause-and-effect thinking to cruel effect. Usually those are one-off actions, though, and not long campaigns, though those are possible if they get determined, I suppose.

    They can get fixated and wrapped up in their realities, which can be very logical and and reasonable and grounded based on the information they have available. But there's a whole world of intuition and feelings that they can easily miss. And, of course, unless they have learned to see value in those things then it can be very hard to introduce them as worthy of consideration. (It's hard even if they do see value in N and F, because those things are so not-concrete or measurable.) AND anyone who does account for those things is a fool, an idiot, not trustworthy, etc.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue." - Francis Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Unhealthy LSE I think would be very bigoted and heartless. To me, it is kind of the stereotypical archetype of 'close-minded Republican asshole.' If "Healthy" IEI is praised for being accepting of other people's weaknesses- "Unhealthy" LSE would probably be cruel/unforgiving to people's weak points or even their gray ambiguities. ((or maybe just so dense with this stuff to even appropriately realize them cuz of Ni polr as well that it comes off that way)) It's like nobody is real to them unless they are this picture perfect EII Cleric type- but it's probably so deranged and unrealistic that not even most EIIs could really fulfill that realistically.

    Luckily I got along okay with my LSE-Si boss. There were a few times that she was too confident of insights that she was actually quite wrong about- but she really wasn't a bad person. For some reason my ESE mom really didn't like her though- and I got along much better with her than she did. Maybe somebody can explain why socionically?

    Oh my dorky mind is obsessed with giving RPG classes to types again. Tee hee hee. EII = Holy Cleric. IEI = Dark Cleric. ?
    Interestingly, I got along ok with my SLE boss for the most part. Better than I did his LSI wife. I mean, he was still kinda an alien and I would not want to live in his house. But we had an overall respectful thing going. I wonder if it's the complimenting extroversion / introversion and st / nf?

    I've seen LSEs and ESEs have a hard time getting along, for sure. They share some of the same types of skills and values, but their extroverted functions are opposed. They seem to think, "They have a lot of things right, but... what are they DOING? WHY?!!" They can respect the effects the other has, but they don't seem to like being around each other long.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    Unhelpful or overly manipulative
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    .........I do think that "unhealthy" LSEs can tend toward controlling behavior as well as relational sabotaging. They can also take on victim-y attitudes, .......
    Yes, I've seen outrage in many LSEs and most certainly they are controlling by nature, all of which can turn either to the dark-side or the light. I also agree that many can be defensive and feel victimised but many of these turn inwards tending to be destructive to themselves. Anyone out of control is largely unpredictable so I prefer to deal with the strengths and weaknesses of information processing; whether a person turns out good or bad usually has more to do with environmental effects, and opportunities or the lack thereof.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    LSE. Often wrong, never in doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Yes, I've seen outrage in many LSEs and most certainly they are controlling by nature, all of which can turn either to the dark-side or the light. I also agree that many can be defensive and feel victimised but many of these turn inwards tending to be destructive to themselves. Anyone out of control is largely unpredictable so I prefer to deal with the strengths and weaknesses of information processing; whether a person turns out good or bad usually has more to do with environmental effects, and opportunities or the lack thereof.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Agreed, especially the bolded.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    LSE. Often wrong, never in doubt.
    One that I know has built a habit of saying, "I might be wrong or missing something, but [insert observations / suggestions]." I consider this one on the healthy end of the spectrum though.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I've seen outrage in many LSEs and most certainly they are controlling by nature, all of which can turn either to the dark-side or the light.
    It's not specific to LSE only
    - You may see expression of negative emotions at anyone. Some types' traits reduce such behavior as Fi ego.
    - All types more than average control the world in their ego region by the means of ego functions.

    > I also agree that many can be defensive and feel victimised but many of these turn inwards tending to be destructive to themselves

    It's too general, not related to Jung types.

    The thread is significantly used as a collection of anything negative seen at people supposed with LSE. Despite exists or do not a strong link of a behavior with some type or with Jung types. While the forum supposes such link should to be.

    Also, thread's title can be understood as claiming the existence of mythic LSE type state with the least of negative traits related to types. While all such traits follow from the type itself and would be minimum when no Jung type existed.
    The term "healthy <some Jung type>" is same nonsense as "healthy <any disease>". There are no "healthy" Jung types. Negative traits which have a sense to talk in the context of types are the ones most noticable at some types, - the traits which are more expressed with higher Jung type's accentuation.

    In common, for very majority of people at least.
    To have Jung type means that weak functions (a half of the psyche) are below social average level. They alike stay at kids development level (what is more clear for types having those functions as strong, so the most kiddy are perceived : duals/activators/conflictors/superego). In weak regions can be developed some of skills to behave more adequately, but functions stay retarded - are hard to operate consciously with good result, fail in new situations.
    Then. That some of functions are lesser conscious means they will oppose to the consciousness - this creates inner conflict, neurotization. Things as: redundant doubts or anxiety, worse emotions without external reasons, strange mistakes, unreasonable opinions and wishes, etc.
    To have Jung type means to have a half of the mind as retarded by social norms and to have stable neurotization factor. How this can be named as "healthy"? Jung described his types as _psyche accentuations_ and used as a point for the psychotherapy, and not as a trait of healthy psyche.
    In Socionics is supposed that to have a dual is very important to feel good. Why? Cause people are weak and need a help in some regions. What a dual does is similar to what psychotherapy does - helps to deal with your weak regions and helps in the life in those regions. What is "healthy" in being weak that you need a help of other people to act closer to social norms and even to feel emotionally good. Adults need this support alike kids need it. Also there are IR and it's hard to deal with bad IR types, to love such people, even close communication without conflicts may have negative influence on psyche state.
    It was MBTI related texts who firstly claimed Jung types as something positive or neutral, - that was useful for the popularity. Then Socionics partly took this approach for the same purpose. It's not what Jung types are.
    "Healthy" is to have all 8 functions developed to good social norms level, to accept all 8 functions as equally valued as they are equally important for the life, to have no inner conflict from functions disbalance in the consciousness, to have no overvalue of some among 8 functions (strong, valued) against other functions. This optimum state is not compatible with Jung type.


    @necrosebud

    > Do you think the unhealthy behavior differs by subtype?

    If to name by a "subtype" different degree of functional balance: the lesser equal balance is - the more problems will be. As weak functions will be weaker and lesser balanced type creates a neurotization.

    > or what in your opinion is in the realm of healthy behavior for the type

    There is "healthy"/good behavior by social norms, which is more expected in strong functional regions. It's incorrectly to use positive term to whole Jung type, as it's psyche accentuation (check what are personality accentuations).

    > periodic outbreaks of rage

    Fi types lesser express negative emotions. Te types having Fi value should lesser prefer non-polite and emotionally loud behavior. For base Fe types it should be more common.
    It's about _average_ in comparision between types.
    Last edited by Sol; 06-03-2021 at 08:23 AM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    @Sol I would say that all my descriptions were not Jung based - at least, I hope they aren't . Case in point, my LSE description:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ription-by-I-O

    As I had implied in that thread, many LSEs (and SLIs in their description) seem to power themselves on indignant outrage (anger?) even when it's for good purposes. I don't see this as unhealthy; it's more of a motivating force.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    LSEs/ESTJs are not well represented in online socionics/MBTI communities. As a result, they get unfairly shit on with negative stereotypes.

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    LSE Ni polr can be something like where they go "Hmm. That surprises me that you would like something like that" like what happened with me and another LSE once. If it was an SLE they'd more likely just go "Oh, that's cool."

    Seem way worse at sizing people up than I am. They also take everything hyper-literally and don't really 'read between the lines' which also is a Fe vs Fi valuing thing to begin with.

    Tagging @Adam Strange cuz he gets a kick out of posts like these.

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