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Thread: How do you Use Business Logic?

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    Default How do you Use Business Logic?

    I'll explain my use of it:

    I can do really high-level stuff. I am good at economics - even graduate level economics. I have a brilliant million-dollar investment idea. Fields like data science and finance interest me. However, in basic everyday stuff, it's almost as if I have no access to the function at all. For instance, running a business is of no interest to me - it would only be an option if I had no other way to survive, and I don't get all the paperwork/legal stuff that is part of it. Also, people start getting into business jargon or business talk and I have no idea what they are talking about. My father runs his own business and this happens all the time: he'll start talking about what happened during his day, and, if it gets into business terms at all, I simply cannot grasp the technical side of what he said. For me, it is a function that that simply doesn't accept any input our output.

    Some things I do really well: I can balance my bank account, but I just intuitively 'know' when to speed up spending or to slow down - which is something strange to the people in my family who all value business logic. Even in going to the grocery store: I don't keep a list or calculate how much I spend, I just 'know' what to buy and roughly how much I've spent; I'll have a basket full of groceries with nearly everything I want in it, and I'll estimate: "It'll come to $70" - no calculations done whatsoever. It'll come out to about $66, and I have nearly everything I want, so there is no need to bring a list or a calculator to the store next time.

    Everyone around me values it: everyone in my family; they start getting into their work or the economy/politics, and my eyes just glaze over because I don't really grasp the technical details of what they are talking about, but then I open up an intermediate microeconomics textbook and I'll grasp the ideas perfectly. However, I try to listen to what some of these economists have to say in non-mathematical terms, and I don't grasp the details at all..

    Does anyone else relate?
    Last edited by jason_m; 05-26-2021 at 05:00 PM.

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    By over compensating with Ti. Otherwise I just grin and bear it.

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    well, my brother said something like, if I were an EII who didn't have Te help around her (I've been lucky to for a long time now, feels like whole life), then I wouldn't know how to do things, sort of quickly, efficiently. To me it almost feels like I wouldn't know how to do things at all lol, like nothing would get done.

    Fortunately I have never experienced lack of Te feedback. It's frustrating to deal with something and keep procrastinating forever because you are not receiving the right kind of help no matter who you ask.

    idk how I personally use it, as much as I appreciate help on it.


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    Doesn't it just mean that you have no interest in it, not that you have a fundamental inability to do so?

    It's not like people are somehow magically "born" with certain understanding of something, without actually learning about it first. Everyone has to learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Doesn't it just mean that you have no interest in it, not that you have a fundamental inability to do so?

    It's not like people are somehow magically "born" with certain understanding of something, without actually learning about it first. Everyone has to learn.
    I'm not sure I have the ability either. I remember in high school when I co-oped at a bank as a teller. Unlike the other tellers there, I just could not pick it up; I struggled with everything from basic input, to miscounting change and having to stay late over and over. However, today, I do some small time bookkeeping for my dad's accounting firm. While I can perform basic bookkeeping, I struggle with it. I look at it like computer code and the way I do it is almost backwards to the people who do bookkeeping for a living. Compare this to high school, when I couldn't even understand the concept of paying a bill through one's bank account, then I'd say I've come a long way, but I still do not have a basic aptitude for business tasks..

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    Before that experience, I might have even valued business logic: I dreamed of being a big-time CEO or accountant. I even did well in high school business classes, but my performance at that bank was so poor, it sent me running for the hills away from business. I then went into computer science in university and I did fine. (The only fear is that CS in university is not like CS in industry and it's just right back to square one - i.e., the same thing as the bank...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    Before that experience, I might have even valued business logic: I dreamed of being a big-time CEO or accountant. I even did well in high school business classes, but my performance at that bank was so poor, it sent me running for the hills away from business. I then went into computer science in university and I did fine. (The only fear is that CS in university is not like CS in industry and it's just right back to square one - i.e., the same thing as the bank...)
    @jason_m, that's why I've always tried to get the job first, then the education.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @jason_m, that's why I've always tried to get the job first, then the education.
    I know what you mean. In computer science, the opportunity came up for taking co-op, but I simply balked at the idea - "All the rudimentary tasks they would force on me, plus I don't get my summers off." And then there is the fear that it is just like high school co-op all over again. I also assumed the work just follows from the schooling. But man, did I lose out on learning what real computing is like, and therefore valuable experience I could have used in planning my career. The stupid, lazy attitude I had therefore screwed me over...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @jason_m, that's why I've always tried to get the job first, then the education.
    I think I read in one of your posts that you went to the University of Michigan. I worry you might have heard of the school I went to, and I'm almost afraid to tell you what school it is...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    I think I read in one of your posts that you went to the University of Michigan as well. I worry you might have heard of the school, and I'm almost afraid to tell you what school it is...
    No problem. I'm not school-proud. To be honest, I barely made it out alive.

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    Well, it's Windsor. It is in my home town. The high schools here are almost just feeder schools to the university. I used to find almost no problems with the school, but lately some of the things I am experiencing just shock me. This is just one of the problems I have been dealing with that I couldn't even solve for myself: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/winds...ents-1.4924445.

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    gather different data to make better decisions
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    It's complicated. I don't find it that hard but I sort of march to the beat of my own drummer when it comes to stuff like that. Some stuff I like doing - I love optimizing. Some stuff I hate - I hate limiting possibility due to $hort-sighted resource preference. I am super super paranoid about not being self-reliant and I work hard to make sure I don't feel financially unstable, because that is just death for me. I have all (and constantly exercise) the capabilities of being Te in society but I generally find it's because there's no other way for me to get along a lot of the time.

    I think averageness and laziness condemn you to living in a Te world (both by yourself and others around you).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    It's complicated. I don't find it that hard but I sort of march to the beat of my own drummer when it comes to stuff like that. Some stuff I like doing - I love optimizing. Some stuff I hate - I hate limiting possibility due to $hort-sighted resource preference. I am super super paranoid about not being self-reliant and I work hard to make sure I don't feel financially unstable, because that is just death for me. I have all (and constantly exercise) the capabilities of being Te in society but I generally find it's because there's no other way for me to get along a lot of the time.
    i salute you for talking about cognition instead of schools and careers.

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    It's like my being is fundamentally opposed to the concept of optimization.

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    I like to compare costs, estimate if something is a good deal, and compare secondhand information with official sources of information when available or else compare secondhand information with other secondhand information to check for consistency. I also like for my actions and the actions of others to be reasonable and follow common sense. When working, efficiency is sort of a big deal for me. However, this is not something I really think about consciously. It just sort of happens without me really taking note of it. However, when other people's actions or way of working does not follow a certain logic of actions, I can get annoyed if I feel like I am picking up the slack, but deep down, I like being lazy. Lazy efficiency is something I like a lot: getting the most out of the least amount of effort since I really don't like over-exerting myself.

    However, I try to be mindful that there is more to life and that in the grand scheme of things, peace and harmony and universal love is the reason for our being. And there are many times I feel I am lazy or unproductive and it really bothers me but I can be so paralyzed by inertia that I kind of shut myself off to what is happening so long as I am able to pay the bills and care for my fur family.

    I used to be more anal retentive about money and all that but I have learned in the past year to kind of chill the eff out and appreciate life and living. The pandemic, being in the ER and in the psych ward twice really changed me for the better even though the experience of the moment really sucked. Even when I drunk driver totaled my car a couple of weeks ago, I was really calm about it seeing that I was uninjured and no one else was hurt. Not having a car right now sucks but the good thing is my job is letting me work remotely (though I would make more money if I was able to work in the office, though working in the office all night sucks) and I technically can use my wife's car if I want to go out to the beach and jam with other drummers.

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    What do you mean by economists in non-math terms? Can you give the terms or an example?

    Would me going into a rant on marginal utility count as confusing? Marginal utility being the idea that things have uses that are only used when there is enough supply or low cost of use. As an example, toilet paper. Money follows this principle. When there is a large supply of money, people use it for firewood. That's marginal use. There's images of this happening in hyperinflated nations. Hyperinflation being that there is too much money.

    But yeah, I could go deeper. Shrink is where you have loss of value of goods due to the goods disappearing somehow. It has to be reported, but I don't think we do good book keeping. I work at a grocery store, and not my problem. But yeah, I worked seafood for quite some time, so I know how much of it works. Me and my number two go through our basic economic knowledge to do seafood. Unfortunately the manager buys too little fish. We sell out, which is seen as good, when in reality demand isn't met. I'd rather have more klt. We ran out of cod this week again, and when we got some, it sold. Great right? Revenues are down 3%. Also, they force us to marinade the fish, and it doesn't sell. What customers do is buy a bottle of marinade and do it themselves. So we waste fish by marinading it. Everyone needs to comply, so says management. Not my problem, I don't get paid enough to care. There's a ton of other things, but you get the picture. I also invest, which is going poorly because ethereum went down unexpectedly due to someone being investigated for fraud, along with general loss in confidence of crypto.
    Last edited by Alomoes; 05-30-2021 at 11:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alomoes View Post
    What do you mean by economists in non-math terms? Can you give the terms or an example?

    Would me going into a rant on marginal utility count as confusing? Marginal utility being the idea that things have uses that are only used when there is enough supply or low cost of use. As an example, toilet paper. Money follows this principle. When there is a large supply of money, people use it for firewood. That's marginal use. There's images of this happening in hyperinflated nations. Hyperinflation being that there is too much money.
    I look at marginal utility differently: The first time you use a certain product - boy was that good! The second time - that was quite good. ... The (n-1)th time - that was okay. The nth time: I'm satiated, so I'm done consuming...

    But yeah, I could go deeper. Shrink is where you have loss of value of goods due to the goods disappearing somehow. It has to be reported, but I don't think we do good book keeping. I work at a grocery store, and not my problem. But yeah, I worked seafood for quite some time, so I know how much of it works. Me and my number two go through our basic economic knowledge to do seafood. Unfortunately the manager buys too little fish. We sell out, which is seen as good, when in reality demand isn't met. I'd rather have more klt. We ran out of cod this week again, and when we got some, it sold. Great right? Revenues are down 3%. Also, they force us to marinade the fish, and it doesn't sell. What customers do is buy a bottle of marinade and do it themselves. So we waste fish by marinading it. Everyone needs to comply, so says management. Not my problem, I don't get paid enough to care. There's a ton of other things, but you get the picture. I also invest, which is going poorly because ethereum went down unexpectedly due to someone being investigated for fraud, along with general loss in confidence of crypto.
    I haven't studied shrink, so I cannot comment...
    Last edited by jason_m; 05-30-2021 at 01:26 PM.

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    By avoiding responsibility in a good way (I have never been in debt).
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    .
    Last edited by Static; 04-28-2022 at 01:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    By avoiding responsibility in a good way (I have never been in debt).
    Lol. My approach to Te is similar. “If you have to use it, you’re probably looking at the wrong problem” is I think how I’d describe my instinctual approach to it.

    I kind of hate having to do anything, especially obligations that are forced on me and I can’t avoid. Mostly what I want in life is a library, Internet access, and sometimes social access. So I try to minimize what I have to do and the problems I have to worry about.

    Sometimes I think about Jordan Peterson’s meme advice about making beds, and I start to think how if I cared about things like whether my bed was made or not, I’d be pretty miserable all the time. There are so many tiny problems like that in life, you can’t go getting upset over them all! If you go around with the mentality that you have to make every unmade bed you’ll start applying that to every other tiny problem you encounter and you’ll wind up never getting anything done!
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 05-31-2021 at 11:50 AM.
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    By not wasting time in small useless not profitable stuff (but someone else will have to do It....not me anyway and no one from my staff - i'll hire someone external)

    By hyperfocussing whenever something can bring important results in a relatively short time

    By being an asshole and Simply not doing It when anyone at works wants me to do useless minutia

    By sticking to facts and numbers in a negotiation and not personal relationships or consequences

    These are all points which bring advantages and disadvantages with them, btw - Fi doms for example take a very different approach but may actually reach better results in some areas.
    Last edited by FDG; 05-31-2021 at 12:45 PM.
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    Has anyone read anything by Milton Friedman? What did you think?

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    I think you underestimate your abilities. You need to believe in yourself and start putting your talent into practice. I wasn't sure of myself either when I founded my company, but I wanted to try. As a result, we are now the best in our field in the country. Moreover, together with innovation-park.eu, we are developing a strategy for the development of my company. I am sure that we will be able to enter the international market. And now I understand perfectly well that if I hadn't taken the risk, then I wouldn't have had anyone like this now. Try it and you!
    Last edited by Jamesawis; 02-07-2022 at 07:16 AM.

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    I still can't value it beyond theory and demonstrative applications. My brain turns off when we talk about real investments. OK, I do cheap hacks and I'm cheap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Existential Ibuprofen View Post
    I still can't value it beyond theory and demonstrative applications. My brain turns off when we talk about real investments. OK, I do cheap hacks and I'm cheap.
    What do you mean? Most investment talk is overcomplicated by laws and government incentives, if you get to the bottom of it though it's quite simple.
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    I don’t. It disappoints me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    What do you mean? Most investment talk is overcomplicated by laws and government incentives, if you get to the bottom of it though it's quite simple.
    Motivation drops. "Playing" with money is kind of turn off. While I can enjoy figures and such personal reward is kind of meh.
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    I use business logic by factoring in profit. For example, by factoring profit into my personal finances, I look at what will get me ahead in the long term (making more than I spend). Saving money is also important for risk tolerance.

    I relate to intuitively knowing about the price of goods I'm going to buy. I can pretty much always guestimate the price of my purchase before the cashier rings it all up.

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    Intriguing.

    For me, it is more of manifested in intuitively calculating things in advance so it can't be that accurate, but I do have a rough calculation for each.
    I'm not that interested in business regardless the family has pushed me around the bush in doing so, since I'm more into language than math.

    As for example, I conjecture calculations by its advantage/disadvantage while akin both prices to each other, as if I knew their price would be when added up. This happened when I bought some foods at store, and didn't really calculate as I just made a categorical assumption in my head.
    Last edited by Metaphor; 02-04-2022 at 11:42 AM.
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    • "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."



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    The term "business logic" is in itself an alpha quadra bias (unavoidable since most socionics researchers are Ti users like LII/ILE). Te is not just about business/planning/organization of information. It's used in distinctly different ways in different positions as well (lead, creative, suggestive...etc.)

    However I'm not good at giving a TiNe definition (definition itself is NeSi and always frozen-in-time/not affected by the observer's perspectives or doings. This is not how NiTe operates).
    Last edited by Vis; 02-04-2022 at 08:54 PM.

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    I DON'T.
    HAHAHAHAHAAhaha ha ha ........

    ok, but seriously, i can't really speak for myself, but something i've noticed about 4D Te is the fluency with brands. technology, clothing, random shit like ice skates even if the person has never even shopped for ice skates before..
    this can also be Se, but in that case it's more specialized in what the person has directly been exposed to and is a side effect of it.

    in contrast, i have this instinctive aversion (more than neutrality) towards internalizing brands and model names, because they feel like random, ephemeral, meaningless, cumbersome classifications that evolves on the roll of the dice. also, i just don't retain classifications (Te stuff) well at all, so an effort to retain something feels so stupid in the context of how quickly they can change.

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    I currently run several state orphanages as the CEO of a private organization.

    The current plan is to merge them all together on the site of a disused factory that used to process heavy metals.

    I estimate that we can cut food expenditure by more than 400% by only serving my own patented superfood, "Soylent Gruel".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socionics Is Not A Cult View Post
    I currently run several state orphanages as the CEO of a private organization.

    The current plan is to merge them all together on the site of a disused factory that used to process heavy metals.

    I estimate that we can cut food expenditure by more than 400% by only serving my own patented superfood, "Soylent Gruel".

    Is your name Kellogg?

    You left out the beneficial effects on the inmates of frequent enemas.

    https://orangebeanindiana.com/2019/0...ek-sanitarium/*

    *I don’t want to detail the problems with his overuse of enemas, but any GI doctor will tell you Kellogg’s applications were too often, too much, and too fast…and certainly too enthusiastic.



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    I wish I would've said "for business" in my original answer

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    The communication styles article, by Gulenko, suggests ExTx types are of the business-inclined style. ExTx types also have the strongest Te function in the entire socion.

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-by-V-Gulenko

    Business-inclined style: ExTx (LSE, LIE, SLE, ILE)

    Business-inclined communication style group is comprised of logical extroverted types: LIE, LSE, SLE, ILE. These types make contact with others over their activities and direct emotions at their work and their engagements.

    Their communication style can be called an active expectation of feelings. Business-inclined sociotypes expect to meet their other half in the whirlpool of their activities. The standard image of a typical man prescribes him an active position in life, but not in the area of feelings. In romantic literature, the hero gets acquainted with his future beloved by rescuing her from troubles. These sociotypes interpret communication as a business cooperation.

    Business-inclined types relate best with....

    Sincere/Soulful style: IxFx (EII, ESI, IEI, SEI)

    This position can be described as a passive search for feelings. Being ethical, sincere sociotypes confidently choose a partner who has appealed to them, but as introverts, they express their openness to relational contact by indirect signals. This is the kind of behavior that is expected from a woman during the premarital period in traditional societies. These sociotypes are most inclined to "home-making" with stereotypical distribution of roles: man – as the bread-winner and defender of the family, woman – as the guardian of the family and nurturer of children. They understand communication as an exchange of signs of soulful/heartfelt attachments.


    An xLE's Te function is best activated by xEI's unconscious request for the function so sometimes the best way to understand one function's purpose is to, first, understand it's direct compliment.

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    I don't like the label "Business logic", its understandable that it would be called this but it can be misleading. In fact, many aspects of socionics are complicated by people attempting to simplify it.

    It is basically the logic of the action of objects or things. The higher dimensional Te will have an easier time creating and predicting efficient action.

    This is why higher Te individuals are typically found in fields such as engineering.

    Extroverted logic deals with the external activity of objects, i.e the how, what and where of events, activity or work, behavior, algorithms, movement, and actions.


    The how, what and where of events would be the external activity of events, activity or work would be the external activity of a machine or individual(s) and algorithms describe the external activity of objects.
    http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...roverted_logic


    I'm not an introspective person, so I lack the level of self-knowledge to know when and how I use Te.
    Bound upon me, rush upon me, I will overcome you by enduring your onset: whatever strikes against that which is firm and unconquerable merely injures itself by its own violence. Wherefore, seek some soft and yielding object to pierce with your darts.

    -Seneca

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    Te more than often deals with a process that is being extracted into useful/productive actions, activities, and or evaluations in terms of certain specific objects. And I'd rather say algorithmic logic works better to describe Te since it has a set of rules due to its procedural thinking.
    Arthur Schopenhauer (ILI-Ni):

    • “A man can be himself only so long as he is alone; and if he does not love solitude, he will not love freedom; for it is only when he is alone that he is really free.”


    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel (ILI-Te):


    • "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."



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    Business logic is a pretty bad name for Te. Te is observation, the collection of factual information about the world.

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    I don't use 'business logic'. That phrase sounds strange to me. I'm more of a business strategist, you know. I use different business management techniques. One of the ways to achieve success is to hire good leaders for each team doing different projects. A good manager or director should head every department of your company to motivate their subordinates to work better and better quality. I've read a lot of information about this on prendo.com. If you are a director of any enterprise, you will understand my idea about quality leadership in departments. Your company's income, the success of your business, and the general mood within your teams all depend on these leaders.
    Last edited by kseniacygan; 04-15-2022 at 02:02 PM.

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