I've been contemplating what ought to be the ultimate test of who ought to be allowed to live within a civilized society and well, that's it. Do you return the cart or not? Your thoughts...
Returning the Cart Guarantees Citizenship
I've been contemplating what ought to be the ultimate test of who ought to be allowed to live within a civilized society and well, that's it. Do you return the cart or not? Your thoughts...
Yes. There's an extra layer though. You need to return your cart to the row that has the right cart size already in it.
Homeless people often take the cart far away bc they need it, but I guess society has already cast them out and said you deserve to die for not being able to hack it
The corporations won't even go after them for theft like they will a shoplifter bc they view them as so lacking in power they are inconsequential
iow, I think your proposition is cold
Every time this subject comes up, someone suggests limiting citizenship to the most intelligent members of society. Putting aside the question of how to determine intelligence and where to draw the line, it's a mistake to assume that more intelligent people make better citizens than less intelligent people.
Would you hire the best salesman in the world if he stole all your money, or would you settle for a mediocre but honest salesman? It would be more rational, in a business sense, to pick the latter every time, and you'd make more money in doing so.
If citizenship is curtailed, it should be primarily done so on the basis of moral qualities like altruism, up to and including the willingness to die for your country. Since citizenship is a collectivist institution by definition, the litmus test should be one's willingness to sacrifice their own interests in favour of the interests of the group. Yeah, I'm channeling the right-winger Robert Heinlein.
Last edited by xerx; 05-23-2021 at 07:28 AM. Reason: fixed
I'm happy with right of soil like the US has, i don't like clutching pearls over this for the US at least, although like a proper annoying leftist I think if someone lived here long enough illegally such that this is their home and culture, it's like they seeped into the soil or it seeped into them... this is the beauty of right of soil... You can't plant something and expect nothing to happen, seeds don't work that way
But note I'm really only speaking wrt the US... I don't presume to understand what is going on elsewhere. And I'm against the US thinking it knows oh so much about how ppl in other places should be or live, if it imposes that.
Eta to elaborate, I have no interest in a witch hunt to de-citizen people. And if I had to be evil myself in this way, it would be that all the ppl pushing to do this to others shoukd be kicked out (where should the stateless go, oh dear that's another problem- how American to dump ppl on someone else's doorstep and demand they take them while at the same time being like no one can come here lol), but ofc then the same thing would apply to myself. So I'd probably just be a wus and not go there.
Honestly this kind of thinking is just as bad as when ppl on the right complain about cancelling and deplatforming ppl... Look in the mirror lol. Your hypocrisy doesn't go unnoticed.
Last edited by marooned; 05-23-2021 at 07:42 AM.
What if you not only return the cart, but rearrange the others so they fit together better? I've found myself doing that a few times recently so the carts weren't all sticking out of the cart returns into the parking lot. Some people might find that anal hah. But if it's overly full where it won't fit, I'll just get it out of the way near the cart return.Originally Posted by End
I'm no leftist, but I agree with you there. If they've been living here working, raising a family, etc, and not committing crimes, let 'em stay. I know of quite a few people who are in this category. I can't imagine what kind of person would want to kick them out.
Otoh, kick out those committing crimes, especially violent crimes. Ridiculous not to imo. The human traffickers and so on, yeah, kick 'em all out. Don't need folks like that coming in.
I also think it should be easier to become a citizen, and that companies need to be held responsible for how they treat ALL their employees, so they can't just import cheap labor and exploit people. Same with these rich hypocrites who hire illegals as servants, household help and the like, and then pay them like crap because they know they can get away with it. Assholes. Make it easier to become citizens for decent regular folks, and this kind of thing happens less. Imo.
This test seems reasonable and I've never been in a position where I can't return the cart, but my mind immediately rushes to the exceptions to the rule that wouldn't deserve banishment or something lol, like because they had to rush to the hospital in labor so they left the cart or something. I feel like no matter the test, there should be an appeal process and a committee to discuss such scenarios
Nah. Grabbing carts gives workers the opportunity to do garbage where the manager ain't lurking.
Watch your carbon footprint, ride a bike. That helps society more than jamming a cart into a metal cage
What is a civilized society?
I do return the cart. I like it that sometimes people ask if they can have it when I am on my way to putting it back. I do that too. Sometimes I like observing whether someone can pick up on my wanting their cart without me being as obvious as I can be. There are times I just go for the last one in the line thinking it has the smallest amount of living germs.
Even if I ever get to have a fkthatshit moment, leaving a cart wherever is a tame/efficient way to let steam off. Maybe our rulers have considered everything
I never use a cart because I don't drive and I can only purchase as much as I can carry home. I think I win extra points. So interesting to hear about the social intricacies of cart usage @Kalinoche buenanoche
I don't drive either but at this point I know what can fit in my trolley. There is still the one-cart-per-person policy that was introduced during the pandemic though. Also it is quicker to go through the cashier like that because the store I go to has a bit of a wholesaler checkout system (cashier moves the items from my cart to the one left by the previous customer). Then I can get anxious when I don't use a cart because I need to calculate on the spot what is the best way to place them back in the trolley.
Tips and tricks: park your cart in the walk-in fridge section if you have already picked up cold items and feel like roaming around the store (without a cart)
I briefly worked at sprouts and honestly it was quite fun going on scavenger hunts for missing carts- it gave me time to breathe fresh air, and you really can't do that as any of the other employees...
Those carts cost several hundred dollars apiece, so it's worth your time to track them down.
I always put my cart away because imagine if no one put their carts away. It would be pure chaos with carts bumping into cars, cars bumping into carts, carts blocking parking spots, and carts rolling all over the lot. Sure, one stray cart isn’t going to cause all of these problems, but I’m not special and above the rules.
If it was possible to keep it a secret somehow (because once that's a known factor it defeats the point) than that would be a good test as to who ought to be qualified for leadership positions.
Not always. If I can put it nearby where the next person who gets out can grab it easily but it's not in there way to park, I will leave it for them. That said, I put it back most of the time. I always put it back if it's windy.
"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
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attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
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People who leave their carts directly in the parking spaces get deported.
I agree wholeheartedly. Returning the cart implies that one can empathize with total strangers and is willing to do something that doesn't benefit them directly for the benefit of another person they don't know and hell, if they did, might not even like. Conversely, to not only not return the cart but to leave it to block a good parking space? That implies you hate total strangers and are willing to do something that harms someone you don't know that, if you did, might even admire or like!
Yeah, deportation. By trebuchet over the border!
I’d say I return the cart 70% of the time. The exception is when it’s far away and I have kids in the car, or the weather (really hot or raining... in a hurry, people creeping me out, things like that... If there are a lot of open parking lots I’m more likely not to return it, because it doesn’t seem like such a big deal. Few parking spots or a busy place and I’m more likely to return to get out of the way, or if it’s windy or on an incline and I’m afraid if it running off, like into a car... I actually try parking as close as I can to the cart corral so it makes it easier to return lol
Anyway, I don’t think it’s a good test of citizenship imo lol, but it probably says a lot about people, what they do in this situation
I actually do feel guilty when I don’t return, and drive off real quick, because it’s like, ‘nothing to see here’, ‘don’t judge me’, ashamed of myself type thing lol
Last edited by Aster; 06-03-2021 at 12:16 AM.
In the nordic countries the cart return rate is close to 99%, almost everyone returns the cart every time. This is well in line with the other differences between the nordic countries and the U.S., and I'm arguing multiculturalism is highly related. Our (traditionally) monocultures couldn't have survived the unforgiving environment if people didn't work together and allowed the 'tragedy of the commons' to happen.
We should restrict citizenship to only those people who ought to be citizens.
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I never claimed to be civilized which is why I stick my cart in the parking lot planter before I drive off.
Lmao
I always return the cart (and yes to the right column as well =p)
This was on a Judge Judy episode. A guy didn't return the cart and it resulted in another dude's car being damaged and Judge Judy made the dude pay like $600 in damages or something. And she was like "You're lazy sir, you're lazy!" I wouldn't be that Te or harsh about it - but I mean, it is common sense to me, that it can cause problems if you just leave it out in the open.
If I somehow forget to do a civic responsibility thing, it's not because I'm being bad or immoral or lazy or irresponsible- it's because I have intense social phobia at times and sometimes I don't remember something because my anxiety is so bad. ((though I never forgot to do the cart thing, as parking lots aren't really a source of my triggers)) So sometimes people just need a helpful reminder, they're not necessarily a 'bad person that doesn't deserve to be in society' because they don't do this- that seems stupid to me as well.
Lots of people from small towns like to judge who gets to be part of the world or not- but they don't have much of a world to begin with to me ((sorry it sounds like I'm a mean demonic gay urban liberal when I say people from redneck towns shouldn't so harshly throw stones- but I kinda see the point as there is obviously a lot about the world they don't know yet and maybe they should be thinking bigger than shopping carts)), so somebody not returning the cart or doing other 'minor crimes' would probably be gossiped about for ages. Because literally nothing at all much happens in a lot of those rural towns, so a person not returning the shopping cart might very well be the talk of the town for the church ladies for awhile.
Not necessarily, for the above reasons I mentioned. I kind of agree with you somewhat on principal but it's more complicated than this. For example putting the cart back might not mean you empathsize with anybody- you just don't wanna get sued like that guy did. It's a self-interest thing. And not putting it back doesn't make you evil incarnate if maybe you have a mental issue that stops you from doing this. (but I also agree sometimes people are just lazy and thoughtless)Returning the cart implies that one can empathize with total strangers and is willing to do something that doesn't benefit them directly for the benefit of another person they don't know and hell, if they did, might not even like. Conversely, to not only not return the cart but to leave it to block a good parking space? That implies you hate total strangers and are willing to do something that harms someone you don't know that, if you did, might even admire or like!
Or maybe you're some manipulative serial killer who always has to have a good social mask but in private you like to cut people up. You put the cart back in a morally perfect way to easily manipulate Soccer Mom Karen - but then you go and do something incredibly immoral when you think nobody is watching. To overly equate putting a cart back into the slot with some grand moral gesture or good person-hood seems a bit naive to me.
Lol well I don't see how this is any kind of ultimate test, but yeah, I don't think I've ever not put a cart away before. I'd feel very guilty if I left it lying around somewhere. Anymore though I live in Japan and don't ever use a cart. I live by myself and am very close to a Universe and a Lawson so I can always carry whatever I'm buying out with me just in a bag
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On a serious note, I never return the cart so I can clear up some space. I'm a business owner and we have events that need a lot of space, such as street theatre:
Yea, it was sarcasm. Plz don't ban me
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