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Thread: ESTp

  1. #1
    …L QUE SABE, SABE DEAD's Avatar
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    Exclamation ESTp

    Yes, I had a thread in the Gamma Quadra about being an ESFp (SEE), but I knew that something didn't fit in terms of how I:

    a) Processed information in terms of IMEs.

    I knew straight off the bat that my Se was good. I also figured out that, prior to learning about the IMEs and how they worked within types, that my Fi was not 3D, and my Fe was definitely not 4D.

    Yes, people can "form relationships" with other people, but the processes behind why they do it, and if they can maintain them are very different from just "Fi = making relationships". The content of the relationships also matters, and if you can distance them properly or whatever. I realised that I am actually terrible at those and at being intimately close to people and letting them in. It also stresses me out when I have to force myself to find something to connect to a person with. Yes, I write stories, and yes I can make a "relationship tree" for the characters, but that's not the main meat. Superifically, I understand how and why I could come across as "ESFp" like, and I understand how and why ESTp with decently developed Fe HA do this as well. It's more like a necessity and a coping mechanism in some cases rather than something that automatically occurs. Forums are a very social place, and you have to use Fe to get by.

    As for 4D Fe, I am not a very expressive person all of the time, and I can be awkward sometimes. Yes, I can express myself in the moment if I want to, especially in party settings but I'm not always scanning the atmopshere for the right thing to say, nor can I do it all the time. I'm more focused on practical action and getting things done. I like to organise things, and sometimes people and I like strategies and figuring out how things work and the logic behind them. Look, I'm a good arguer if I want to be, and I can charm people but I'm not really a people person in the sense of 4D Fe. I can express myself, but not strongly. I'm also not really that positive compared to an SEE. I also can see a lot of Fe HA traits within me.

    b) "Formed relationships" with other Gammas, especially ILI.

    Trying to form relationships with and understand ILIs just isn't happening. A lot of them (not all) are unlikeable to me in comparison to Beta NF types. And other SEE. Most SEE just flat out say that I am SLE. I think I supervise ESI more than I "bond" with them and LIE are alright. I just don't get activated from them. I suspect that the ones who "say I activate them" are actually EIEs mistyped.

    c) Said behaviours don't always align with said type.

    Again, SOCIONICS IS NOT A THEORY OF BEHAVIOUR ALONE. It's a theory of IMEs and putting those blocks together to create a type. It's about how those function within the psyche, and not just how one acts on the outside. IMEs and personalities are seperate parts of the whole, but that's another story for another day.

    d) I was going through an unhealthy patch.

    I was stressed for a while. I noticed a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms stemming from my thought processes when I looked at everything. I noticed how unhealthy the content of those were. I took a step back from Socionics and analysed things. It makes sense why I was getting numerous types. All the toxic stereotypes, misunderstanding of IMEs and the processes made things harder to calculate.

    I also suspect that me being an Se subtype had something to do with it as well, being harder to differentiate between the systematic nuances of Fi and Ti within my psyche. Of course, I have nothing against Gammas. I just knew that when I added everything together, I wasn't one of them.

    Anyway, here we go again.

  2. #2
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    Exclamation Relationships

    Why do people come to me and ask me questions about relationships and their relationships with other people? I don't know them, and I don't know your situation. I don't ask either because I'm bad remembering things, and I'm even worse at comforting people or giving relationship advice. I'm not RuPaul. Or Oprah. I'm no good at that kinda thing. Yeah, I'll be your friend and yeah, I'll show you a good time but I need to work on the whole human relationship thing. I find it hard to care most of the time, though. I find it hard to keep and maintain relationships and be intimate with people. Superifically, I think that I can come across as someone who seems friendly (and that's true) but I'm closed off outside of group situations and one-on-one.

    The idea of finding something in common with someone makes me. I'm not good at finding and establishing common ground, unless it's already there, and I'm also not good at small talk. I never have been, and I'm trying to get better at that by writing character studies. By doing it systematically. Systematic connections, you know? I want to explore my characters more and flesh them out. It's hard, unless I have pre-determined events, and planning is hard. You know?

  3. #3
    Looking into his gorgeous blue eyes... SlytherinPower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    Why do people come to me and ask me questions about relationships and their relationships with other people? I don't know them, and I don't know your situation. I don't ask either because I'm bad remembering things, and I'm even worse at comforting people or giving relationship advice. I'm not RuPaul. Or Oprah. I'm no good at that kinda thing. Yeah, I'll be your friend and yeah, I'll show you a good time but I need to work on the whole human relationship thing. I find it hard to care most of the time, though. I find it hard to keep and maintain relationships and be intimate with people. Superifically, I think that I can come across as someone who seems friendly (and that's true) but I'm closed off outside of group situations and one-on-one.

    The idea of finding something in common with someone makes me. I'm not good at finding and establishing common ground, unless it's already there, and I'm also not good at small talk. I never have been, and I'm trying to get better at that by writing character studies. By doing it systematically. Systematic connections, you know? I want to explore my characters more and flesh them out. It's hard, unless I have pre-determined events, and planning is hard. You know?
    Tbh that's when I feel like just having generic advice responses, especially for people that complain a lot, come in handy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    I think I supervise ESI more than I "bond" with them
    what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlytherinPower View Post
    Tbh that's when I feel like just having generic advice responses, especially for people that complain a lot, come in handy.
    Yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Okay View Post
    what.

    The other way around, whatever. It's just a theory.
    Last edited by DEAD; 05-23-2021 at 09:04 AM.

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    Why do LIEs do that fake moral thing and try to guilt trip people? I do not care. We donít share the same mindset and the more you piss me off, the more Iím going to want to punch you. This Fi seeking thing is annoying. Okay, you wanna seek something Iím not good at. Whatís the point in even trying?


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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post


    Why do LIEs do that fake moral thing and try to guilt trip people? I do not care. We don’t share the same mindset and the more you piss me off, the more I’m going to want to punch you. This Fi seeking thing is annoying. Okay, you wanna seek something I’m not good at. What’s the point in even trying?


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    LIE's are moral? LIE's have the same Fe/Fi dimensionality as SLEs do.

    https://imgur.com/gallery/uBok4Ha

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    haikus
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    I’ve never seen LIEs do any fake moral thing


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    Question This is what I mean

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    LIE's are moral? LIE's have the same Fe/Fi dimensionality as SLEs do.

    https://imgur.com/gallery/uBok4Ha
    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    Iíve never seen LIEs do any fake moral thing
    Let me try and explain to both of you exactly what I mean. I don't mean that he is moral. I'm not talking about moral in the ExI aspect, but what I mean is that he pretends to be moral and he tries to guiltrip me because I didn't do said thing. Maybe that's a behaviour specific to my Dad being religious, or a behaviour specific to himself but he thinks that by trying to force "guilt trip" people into doing things (especially religious-based things) that it makes them reconsider, but it doesn't.

    And my Dad is the closest LIE I've been observing (and isn't the healthiest) and the only one I have been able to observe and analyse for a while due to COVID, and people not having the balls to sneak out. He's also big into respect. But yeah, my Dad is an LIE based on IMEs, but he was raised very traditionally so I think that has an impact on how he functions.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    Let me try and explain to both of you exactly what I mean. I don't mean that he is moral. I'm not talking about moral in the ExI aspect, but what I mean is that he pretends to be moral and he tries to guiltrip me because I didn't do said thing. Maybe that's a behaviour specific to my Dad being religious, or a behaviour specific to himself but he thinks that by trying to force "guilt trip" people into doing things (especially religious-based things) that it makes them reconsider, but it doesn't.

    And my Dad is the closest LIE I've been observing (and isn't the healthiest) and the only one I have been able to observe and analyse for a while due to COVID, and people not having the balls to sneak out. He's also big into respect. But yeah, my Dad is an LIE based on IMEs, but he was raised very traditionally so I think that has an impact on how he functions.
    I know about 24 LIEs and I think all of them basically believe that laws should be generally obeyed, but not by them. And only one of them is even slightly religious, and she's an LIE married to an LSI. Also, most LIE's are not into giving moral advice, but rather are seeking it from their 4D Fi Duals.

    On the other hand, I know about 11 ILIs, and they tend towards being religious (a lot more than LIEs) and they are also more panicked about COVID/health issues and they are the ones holed up in their houses, ordering deliveries from every store in town and leaving them in the garage for 24 hours for the germs to die. Lol.

    Your dad sounds more like an ILI to me, but you know him better than I do and some LIEs can be pretty fucked up, IMO.

    FWIW, I've always had problems with people who tell me not to do stuff that they do all the time. They seem to assume that they are morally above you and are also trying to gain an advantage over you, which I hate.

    When I was raising my son, I didn't want him to drink or do drugs like I did, so I never let him see me drunk or on drugs, but I never told him what to do in that area, because kids do what they see, not what they are told.

  12. #12
    haikus
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    @DEAD yeah that is what I was referring to in my original post to, at least IME I haven't seen LIEs do that. If they are taking a moral stance on something, it's usually genuine


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I know about 24 LIEs and I think all of them basically believe that laws should be generally obeyed, but not by them. And only one of them is even slightly religious, and she's an LIE married to an LSI. Also, most LIE's are not into giving moral advice, but rather are seeking it from their 4D Fi Duals.

    On the other hand, I know about 11 ILIs, and they tend towards being religious (a lot more than LIEs) and they are also more panicked about COVID/health issues and they are the ones holed up in their houses, ordering deliveries from every store in town and leaving them in the garage for 24 hours for the germs to die. Lol.

    Your dad sounds more like an ILI to me, but you know him better than I do and some LIEs can be pretty fucked up, IMO.
    Yeah, about duals. In a way, I think that he's trying to get his own moral advice, or his own morality, but it's near impossible for him to seek it out because of my Alpha SF (ESE) Mother. According to the system, she isn't going to give him anything tangible in that department. They are very different people, and they do conflict and argue a fair bit, but they are both extroverts which makes them seem to conflict a lot as well. Different ideas, thought processes etc. I think that my Mother thinks my Dad is very strange, and he thinks she's too simple.

    Yeah, he's big on obedience and respect. And discipline in theory, but he can't impliment that effectively and accurately into the real world sometimes, which is hilarious. I always find a way past that. As for COVID he is very into keeping up to date on that, and keeping up to date on it but he doesn't panic about it. He's into the whole "Alt media, critical thinking" aspect of it. He is quite critical, but he's very opinionated. More so than I would expect what I know of an ILI would be.

    The things that are keeping me from typing him as an ILI outright is the fact that his Te is brilliant. He does use Ni, but more in a creative way for projects and solving how to work out a timeframe for those. He's quite good at working out timeframes for things, but it's not something he is permanently conscious of.

    His 4D Ne does my head in. He's not passive on the Ne at all.

    Gets stuff done with the said 2D Se. Sometimes, he needs a slight push but he can do it if he plans enough.

    He's also into survial stuff a bit, but in theory, he's perfect at that. Once again, in practice, he would need help getting things.

    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    @DEAD yeah that is what I was referring to in my original post to, at least IME I haven't seen LIEs do that. If they are taking a moral stance on something, it's usually genuine
    Yeah, fair enough. My Dad is pretty religious as well. I should add that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I know about 24 LIEs and I think all of them basically believe that laws should be generally obeyed, but not by them.
    Hahahah, especially true if they're 8s.
    I AM YOUR HOLY TOTEM
    I AM YOUR SICK TABOO
    RADICAL AND RADIANT
    I'M YOUR NIGHTMARE COMING TRUE

    I AM YOUR WORST ENEMY
    I AM YOUR DEAREST FRIEND
    MALIGNANTLY MALEVOLENT
    I AM OF DIVINE DESCENT


    I AM YOUR UNCONSCIOUSNESS
    I AM UNRESTRAINED EXCESS
    METAMORPHIC RESTLESSNESS
    I'M YOUR UNEXPECTEDNESS

    I AM YOUR APOCALYPSE
    I AM YOUR BELIEF UNWROUGHT
    MONOLITHIC JUGGERNAUT

    STRAY BULLET
    FROM THE HEAVENS ABOVE
    STRAY BULLET
    READY OR NOT
    I'M THE ILLEGITIMATE SON OF GOD


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