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Thread: Introversion = self-absorption?

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    Default Introversion = self-absorption?

    A lot of introverts seem self-centered to me which has negatively impacted my relationship with them. It's like they always expect me to care about their own emotions, thoughts, problems, sensations, intuitions, but don't really treat others with the same level of attention.

    Is it normal for introverts to think their own life is the centre of the frikkin universe or are my introverted friends bad friends?? I treat myself like an object sometimes, like my thoughts and feelings could belong to someone else, is that uncommon with introverts? What the heck is socionics introversion about if it isn't shyness or social introversion?

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    well I often call myself a covert narcissist for exactly these reasons... I hate myself for it. I wasn't always this way but it's like the other side of the coin. Devotion is the side I lost. I've been alone so long after someone didn't want me that I just turned more and more inward. If no one wants me and the world wants to kill me all I have is myself. I hate myself but we're together at least. I'll smile like someone about to throw themselves out a window. Lol.

    But it's that introverts have the capacity to devote to individuals but very little capacity to deal with ALL the damn ppl. And in the meantime they cope with the loneliness by building their internal worlds. I personally feel the IJ is the more effective introvert bc that temperament is more stable and dutiful.

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    Introverts are exactly like this. It's just the way our brain is wired. It's why those cheesy self-help books describing how introverts are 'giving' - that's not really the case. Socionically introversion is more about the functions so for example an IEE could in theory be shy even though they are socionic extroverts, or so I've heard. The IEEs I know really aren't shy at all but I've heard that on the forum before. They could possibly be mistyped IEIs but ehh.

    I have a big heart though and I do care when people suffer. I just don't know how to show it so much- it's awkward. I remember a long time ago there was this kid being bullied and I wanted to help him but I didn't know how- whereas a cool extroverted jock would have just instantly beat up the bullies the moment it happened. I wish I had done that- but it's awkward to me. And I only cared that this kid was being bullied because I myself was severely bullied before so it's still selfish. =D I don't like giving at soup kitchens either- it's draining to me. But I am naturally shy, soft, sweet and nice. But I'm also a demonic drag queen from Hell- so there's that.

    It's just too unnatural for me to be selfless like an extrovert and feel empowered by other people so don't expect that. IRL I probably get easily offended and leave the party and want to read a book like Daria. lol. We suck, sorry. But gotta love us anyway. (because it's all about us!)
    Last edited by BandD; 05-16-2021 at 03:13 PM.

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    I center myself (pretty much. sx can muddle that)

    Expecting other ppl to care about me is an entirely different story and anything involving that is related to something other than introversion.

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    > A lot of introverts seem self-centered to me which has negatively impacted my relationship with them.

    Let's exclude you could mistake in types of some people. And assume those people are common introverts, without personal issues.

    Introvertion in Jung types is not self-centrism (or ego-centrism). Self-centrism is when a human values _interests_ of other people _too low_, what also mb named as psychopathy. This makes a trouble to cooperate, as it's based on mutual usefulness and this needs to care about other people too.

    Jung types introvertion is what kind of information dominates - an introverted function. This function describes subjective evaluations of this human and of other people near too. For example, base Fi want to have emotional comfort in them, but also they want to see it in other people too (including because have own use in their good state).
    Egocentrism is independent from introvertion.

    From types point, you may have more problems with some introverted types due to IR with them. And in case you have introverted type yourself, then you may like extraverted traits more.
    Your perception is not non-prejusticed. So you may perceive people having more relations problems with you (and the ones similar to those people) as objectively worse, to concentrate too much on negative traits, overesteemate the degree of them or even mistake in their existence, in same time you may underesteemate the good in those people.
    It's common for bad IR. Where it's more between you and them, and not about them in general. In bad IR you are feeling that your interests are not satisfied good and also get more of what annoys you - such people mb interpreted as more egocentric by you. As they alike do not care about your interests enough and make what hurts you. While from the point of those people a significant part of a care what they do for you - you do not understand and do not value. Where you think - there was no care - they may think they did it for you, and what you think as annoying and wrong - they may think that was useful care or mb neutral.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Wait, does self-absorbed mean the same thing as unempathetic? I don't think so. I raise an objection.

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    Yeah I'm incredibly self-absorbed. (I just want to talk about my own homosexuality all time like I get criticized over haha) but if anything I'm TOO empathetic. I feel other people's crap as if it were my own so much - I sometimes have to avoid people cuz it's too much. Like that episode on Charmed where Prue felt the world's pain and it was killing her/driving her mad. And although it's also largely in part because I'm not a 'thinking' type - I even refrain from doing a lot of 'practical' or efficient things because I'm always paying attention to how it would make other people feel.

    It's complicated tho cuz I mean- if you do something that pisses off my introversion or my own identity too much I will naturally probably be less empathetic towards you. I'm not very empathetic at all to people who are all "Tell me about the time you were molested so I can use it against you and I will tell you about the time I had Normie Stage Fright and I will pretend like that's the same thing and I will exploit your vulnerabilities and in reality be cruel but to the outside Te world I will look like the Hero."

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    No I think not necessarily. From Aushra's extroverted perspective, Introverted people focus on relationships instead of objects. Extroverted functions focus on objects themselves while introverted functions focus on the negation (or complement set) of objects, which is relationships. What I understand is that from Jung's language, introverted people tend to connect objects with primitive archetypes, which is rooted in the evolution history of us human beings. So introverted functions are not that "subjective" because all of us have the same collective unconsciousness. For instance my Ti is understandable by another Ti type and Fi types could also judge others' Fi. We share the same collective unconsciousness which supports the introverted functions.

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    When I was growing up, my immediate family was mostly Delta, and I had one set of cousins who were all Betas and another set of cousins who were mostly extroverted Alphas, except for the middle daughter, Amy, who was the most introverted person I've ever known.

    Amy seemed to live entirely in a world of her own creation. She went through the motions of going to school, but in her spare time, she drew animals. All the time. Her room at home was completely papered with small pictures of animals. She hardly ever spoke and she hardly ever looked at people. Maybe she was a reaction to her super-matriarch extroverted and controlling mother and her Trump-like father, but whatever caused her to be introverted, it did a pretty thorough job of it.

    It turned out that she was incredibly intelligent and she was admitted as an out-of-state student to the University of Michigan a couple years after I started there. While our time at U overlapped, she never once called me, even though we lived about a mile apart. I only found out that she was at the school when our grandmother asked me if I could give her a ride from Ohio where our families lived, to Ann Arbor, so she could return to her dorm from Mid-Winter break. I was surprised to learn that she was at Michigan, but I said "Sure."

    On the three hour drive through the winter darkness, she said exactly nothing. I mean, it was like riding in the car with a body-temperature doll. I think I asked her what dorm she was in and possibly what her major was, but I was so surprised that a human could be so blank that I pretty much fell into a silence.

    On a long, straight stretch of highway which was exposed to gusts of wind from the treeless fields on both sides, the highway had frozen over. I was driving my usual 70 MPH when I felt the tires lose contact with the road and the car, while continuing straight down the highway, started to rotate about its center. There wasn't much I could do except to not make any sudden moves and hope that the tires would catch again when the car slowed. After a few seconds, the car slid backwards off the highway into the center section and came to rest in the snow, facing back the way we came.

    I looked at Amy to see if she was alright, and she was just sitting there, kind of frozen and not saying anything. I told her, "Hmm, no problem. This car has a stick shift so I'll be able to feather the clutch and drive us right out of here." Then I noticed that a police car had stopped in the lane across from the center section. How they got there at that exact time is beyond me, but I thought I should get out of the car and go over to them and explain that I wasn't drunk and didn't need any help. So I did. As I was talking to the driver and explaining to him that the car was light and I was sure I could just drive out, Amy appeared out of nowhere next to me.
    "Ohmygodwe almost died the car slid off the highway we almost died...." Amy was hysterical and scared and had completely lost control of herself and I suddenly flashed on the fact that my situation was looking a lot like a kidnapping gone wrong and I reacted instinctively and said "Amy! Shut up and get back in the car." Which is not something that I ever would have predicted that I'd say, but I said it.
    She immediately stopped talking and went back to the car, although my attention was now on the police in their car and what their reactions were. Surprisingly, they seemed nonchalant, as if all this was perfectly normal for them. I carefully laid out exactly how I was going to drive out of there, and they seemed dubious but didn't object.
    I returned to the car, still pissed at Amy for nearly getting me arrested for rape and kidnapping and probable dismemberment, but asked her in a normal voice how she was, and she said she was OK. Then I drove out of there, exactly as I said I would, and returned her to her dorm. She didn't say a word to me for the rest of the trip, that I can remember, except to tell me where her room was.

    Amy strikes me as a super-introverted e9, for the record. She eventually got a job working for the State in an office somewhere, and has never married.

    I sometimes wonder if all she really needed was a guy who would defend her against the outside world of threats and would dutifully use her for sex or companionship every once in a while so she knew she was strongly needed by someone, but would otherwise leave her to be free to be herself the rest of the time.

    (Full disclosure: I'm fairly male and can be a completely clueless and insensitive jerk sometimes, and I don't advocate this solution for everyone, but it might have worked for Amy.)
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-16-2021 at 03:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Introverts are exactly like this. It's just the way our brain is wired. It's why those cheesy self-help books describing how introverts are 'giving' - that's not really the case. Socionically introversion is more about the functions so for example an IEE could in theory be shy even though they are socionic extroverts, or so I've heard. The IEEs I know really aren't shy at all but I've heard that on the forum before. They could possibly be mistyped IEIs but ehh.
    There is something weird about introverted extroverts or (role) introverting extroverts. That is: they "shy away" without introverted self entitlement. Moods and stuff, even self alienation. My weird hobby is to see similarities between stuff e7, schizotypal and self alienation seem to connect in some cases (they might be super weird and/or traumatized extroverts who are living introverted life).

    When I "introvert" I never say to myself/anyone that I'm glad for things being less hectic. I'm just seeking better stimuli.
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    Introverts require time alone. The level with which an introvert enjoys interacting with the outside world is directly related to their creative function... which is extraverted. The creative must serve the lead (or program) function in order for it to be sustained

    In other words, once an introvert's creative function is adequately supporting the lead they'll integrate into society more smoothly.

    It's still important for introverts to have alone time. The socion is better off when introverted functions have that balance. Otherwise, the person will be prone to haphazard decision making.

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    In other words, once an introvert's creative function is adequately supporting the lead they'll integrate into society more smoothly.
    lol every cell of my body felt dualized when you said this. <3 Such a good point. In Fe atmospheres I shine sooo much better and I actually feel like a healthy, normal person. In heavy Fi envrionments I'm just scapegoated as the bad guy or they have to change me into an EII in order to tolerate my existance.

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    As an introvert, I used to wonder if I was self absorbed also. All my thoughts revolve around me. Even if it's about someone else I always find a way to bring it back to me. I find it difficult to empathize with people who are going through something I've never experienced. It's like I know that this thing that happened to them is bad, but it makes me feel nothing. I don't tend to ask people how they're doing, how their day went and stuff like that. It just doesn't occur to me, it's something I have to consciously tell myself to do. And as someone else mentioned, showing emotions and that I care outwardly is very awkward to me. So I really do appreciate people who don't expect that and just know that I care from subtle things. I put other people in my life needs before mine a lot. I think about them and do subtle things for them but it's just not overt and a lot of people seem to not notice it.

    I'm also one of those introverts who barely talks so sometimes people mistake that as me not being interested in being around them. Which isn't true, I just won't talk around a person much (especially if they're a male). This part might just have to do with social anxiety sometimes. As mentioned above, that Amy girl, I see myself a lot in how she acted.

    It's probably strange but sometimes talking feels like using a lot of energy to me so I just won't bother to.

    As I've gotten older I've tried to seem more outwardly caring to people but I really can't do that for tons of people. I've been told before that I seem like I'm in my own world, and I barely notice people who are around me sometimes. So, I don't think being an introvert means we're self absorbed. It's just the way how we're programmed to be.
    Last edited by fatgurl; 05-18-2021 at 03:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Introverts are exactly like this. It's just the way our brain is wired. It's why those cheesy self-help books describing how introverts are 'giving' - that's not really the case. Socionically introversion is more about the functions so for example an IEE could in theory be shy even though they are socionic extroverts, or so I've heard. The IEEs I know really aren't shy at all but I've heard that on the forum before. They could possibly be mistyped IEIs but ehh.)
    I'm 100% sure I'm IEE and pretty asocial. Not really shy, even if I really dislike 'pushing myself onto others' or spending too much time with people. Two weeks ago a sensor girl said "hey !! I'm so happy to see you" with so much energy I just had to back away cringing and since then I avoid her. When someone sits next to me while I'm eating my lunch I get pissed and I don't get understand how this "best friend/introverted people who always hang together"-thing works, too close relationships give me headaches. Since it's not introversion, @BrightDemonSheep96 what is that schizotypal thing you're talking about?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    Wait, does self-absorbed mean the same thing as unempathetic? I don't think so. I raise an objection.
    No, from my observations it seems to be the reverse. It's like they are completely indentified with their thoughts or emotions(for example empathy) while I'm like 'Oh I'm feeling empathy/thinking this is the truth, but that's not a real fact so who gives a f*** other than myself?'; and then I try to concentrate on "facts". It's like I repress my own perspective while introverts revel in it. That's what I mean with self-absorbed.

    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    My thoughts and feelings do belong to me - who else would they belong to lol?
    introversion is putting the self into, and before “objective” reality; we are supposed to focus on the subject (ie self) but the good thing is we derive from it subjective experience of others too
    So would you say that even if it is somebody's else experience you process it and make it your own instead ? Or you pretend to be someone else?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    So would you say that even if it is somebody's else experience you process it and make it your own instead ? Or you pretend to be someone else?
    I don't know what she meant. I think we all interpret other person's experience through our subjective filters. We are all limited by our own perception. There is no way that someone could access to objective reality, because you are always in the equation.

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    I'm 100% sure I'm IEE and pretty asocial. Not really shy, even if I really dislike 'pushing myself onto others' or spending too much time with people. Two weeks ago a sensor girl said "hey !! I'm so happy to see you" with so much energy I just had to back away cringing and since then I avoid her. When someone sits next to me while I'm eating my lunch I get pissed and I don't get understand how this "best friend/introverted people who always hang together"-thing works, too close relationships give me headaches.
    idk I sat by myself all the time at lunch in high school- nobody tried to sit next to me- maybe like tried to get me involved from a few spaces down but not right next, that's a bit weird to me. Well I purposefully dressed like a value village loser because I didn't want to be bothered much and so even other value village losers would find me 'uncool' and not want to be around me. Other people said it's cause I didn't love myself enough and tried to make me the one with the problem- but really it's mostly because my brain was born sooo introverted that being forced in an area where I have to be around people is just like Hell on earth for me personally and yes I want everybody else to be understanding with that about me because I'm a selfish, demanding introvert. The chemicals that make a brain introverted- I was just like over-shot with them on top of that. I'm not introverted, I'm Introverted with a capital I!

    This is giving me an idea for another story. 16types Adventures: "The Idea of Introversion." lololol.

    I was so weird and fit in so badly though that I also drew the ire of all these authority type people that had even worse intentions than the bullies/mean popular kids. My very existance shook up the system so the system had to stop me. Actually popular kids were hardly ever mean - that's a bad 80s' stereotype. They were just too popular and cared about their own image to want to be around me- some even tried to genuinely help me (popular people are usually popular because they are so giving to others, instead of 'mean') but I victimishly refused to listen to much of their advice as they were just vampircally trying to turn me into a Chad like them.

    Other weirdos/misfits usually bully/are cruel to other weirdos/misfits while normal and cool people are just nice and normal and Te/Fe and blah. At least in my experience. 'bff introverts' - I think that happens more in letters or books/fan fiction with other introverts than it translates to real life. Realistically, I myself believe in 'allies' more than friends.

    Depending on how they did it I'm not so sure I myself would be all that pissed by what happened to you - I might even find it cute- but it is a weird boundary invasion. People don't treat me this way as I can be genuinely intimidating despite being IEI as I can use my 'tall loner "serial killer" male vibes' when I don't wanna be bothered by anybody. And I will be physical if I need to be or I'm pissed off enough. I'm not sure some other guys or most women have that luxury.

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    It can happen that when someone is going through a tougher time, being stressed and whatnot, they can not have the reception from others they would want. It can be highly frustrating and cause the person to see the other as selfish, uncaring, or whatever else. Just a random thought because I saw it happen in the past, it's a point where relationships break or become stronger.
    Or remain in an awkward zone because no side has the [insert whatever word deemed fitting here] to do anything.

    And well, self-absorbtion is human, not type-related. Perhaps bad IR makes it worse.
    Everyone is also always only talking from their own subjective point of view, even when talking objectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    A lot of introverts seem self-centered to me which has negatively impacted my relationship with them. It's like they always expect me to care about their own emotions, thoughts, problems, sensations, intuitions, but don't really treat others with the same level of attention.

    Is it normal for introverts to think their own life is the centre of the frikkin universe or are my introverted friends bad friends?? I treat myself like an object sometimes, like my thoughts and feelings could belong to someone else, is that uncommon with introverts? What the heck is socionics introversion about if it isn't shyness or social introversion?
    I think it can seem like unintentional self-absorption just because they're using an introverted function to define the outside world, it's what comes first.

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    It's like when I ask, "should I eat before we go out?"
    Instead of asking "do you want to eat together when we go out?"
    Te seeking lol
    It means the same thing, lol, but it's a self-centered way to ask.
    It isn't because I don't care about whether we eat together or not. I just automatically communicate my motivations as I go, for better and worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    It's like when I ask, "should I eat before we go out?"
    Instead of asking "do you want to eat together when we go out?"
    I find this not so likely. Instead
    introverted self absorbed narcissistic black hole (SEI btw): Let's go and eat, you 1D Si person who can not detect hunger so you can entertain me with your Ne by theories, fantastical stories and breaking social taboos while we eat and it should be wild.
    Me: OK, since you asked, your black holeness.
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    There are just as many, if not more, extroverts who think they are the center of the universe, so I'd say no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    There are just as many, if not more, extroverts who think they are the center of the universe, so I'd say no.
    Yes, pure narcissism is an extroverted trait.

    Is that more about being self-adsorbed/self-infused to the external world (with humongous mass)? (Gulenko says: SEE, EIE)
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    From my pov, I think I'm the center of the(my) universe, if I die, this universe mean nothing, it's only exist (for me) as long as I'm still alive and observe it. But I don't need others to agree with that, it's only my personal pov... The one who observe is the center of their universe.

    "Expect people to care about you" is pathetic. If you want someone to care about you, you should make them to do that, instead of waiting and "expecting".
    Last edited by Moharu; 05-17-2021 at 07:35 AM.

  25. #25
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    There are just as many, if not more, extroverts who think they are the center of the universe, so I'd say no.
    It is widely believed in scientific circles that the Universe started in the exact center of me, and has been expanding outward ever since.

  26. #26
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    Most Ijs tend to trust only their rationale; they're somewhat like islands unto themselves. Most Ips tend to closely defend what they know and believe; they're more fortresses of solitude. Both temperaments tend to remain centres of their own universes but leave everyone else's universe alone. Now, many Ejs seem to want to control the universes of certain others (for their mutual benefit?) in exactly the ways prescribed by the Ejs although some will negotiate a little. Many Eps seem to think that they should be free to wander over everybody else's universe with no obligations upon themselves. For self absorption that impacts others, XXIs should have rights to the first stones to be cast.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Well the dictionary definition of self-absorbed is ‘preoccupied with one’s own feelings, interests, or situation’. If I wasn’t preoccupied with these things, I feel like I wouldn’t have a personality at all and I’d be no use to anyone. Without a strong sense of identity, I’d feel completely at the mercy of other people, like I was being pulled in all different directions.

    I’m having to make a conscious effort at the moment, not to let myself feel controlled by other people. It’s a tempting and enjoyable to spend lots of time engaging with interesting extroverts but it’s also exhausting trying to keep up with their energy levels and you can end up making a fool or yourself or sometimes listening to their advice too readily (answering every phone call, replying too quickly to texts, talking with your manager over lunch). It’s better to not jump so quickly every time at their whims because it’s really important for me to not fall into a trap of being too dependent on people and thinking that I don’t need to practise self-care that isn’t ‘talking about my problems’. Having these sorts of boundaries should hopefully make my relationships with them better- I won’t get so annoyed with them at little things because I’ll feel more on their extroverted level- more confident and in control outwardly..(and also more calm on the inside.) Obviously, sometimes it’s good to engage spontaneously but there needs to be balance.
    Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.

  28. #28
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    To me it’s being inside my head, building an internal world with internal characters and interactions, an internal world detached with external reality
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  29. #29
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    This ain't socionics theory but the introverts I've seen tend to looping. They are driven by resolving issues related to their hidden agenda.

    If you're skilled enough in their hidden agenda, you might notice 'em open up. Again, this is just what I've observed through simple real life accounts

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