IEI idealization

[Stray Cat]

Got a few IEI buddies. Seems they do everything they can to only see others through the lens of potential. They'll imagine a flawless future with others full of pleasantries & void of obstacle. They, then, become impulsive, ignore relevant facts & overestimate others a bunch

These IEIs are incredible people who've alot to offer this world if they'd be more grounded. In pragmatic or adventurous activities, I'm happy to get involved. With their emotional lives, I stay the f*ck out

Guess my question to IEIs is what can I do to help? My take is its too heavy a reliance on Ni. What say you?

[Great]

Not an IEI but I say get them grounded in their bodies. I'm trying to get my IEI cousin to work out with me.

[Warm Soapy Water]

I understimate people more than I overestimate them probably. I guess I can overestimate a person if I happen to like them, but that's kinda rare. A person once told me I see people's dark sides and malicious intentions too much and I see the bad in them too much but the person who said that has a criminal record and is kind of bad themselves so meh. Lol.

I have a hard time accepting the flaws in others even though I want people to do that with me so maybe teach me how to do that better I don't know.

Not sure I picture a flawless future. Maybe it comes off that way because I like to have fun and don't really enjoy people who act like they have a stick up their ass. It can also be more of the opposite: I picture obstacles that aren't really there. Or sometimes I just lack the physical energy to push them out of the way.

I'm not incredible and I don't have much to offer. Don't put me under so much pressure. <3

[Bethanyclaire]

Tell them no one is as good as them and they are going to be taken advantage of by the world and its cruelties.

[Warm Soapy Water]

Meh. Yet I am often the one that is taking advantage and the one being cruel. /dresses in Britney Spears drag. I'm not that innocent. lolol

[Stray Cat]

Tell them no one is as good as them and they are going to be taken advantage of by the world and its cruelties.

Interesting

The IEI I experience likely believe they can charm themselves out of bad deals It isn't confidence as much as using words & Fe to stroke the ego of others.

Pretty sure the advice here is decent enough. I def don't expect anybody to change overnight but the diff perspectives is better than me being presumptuous

[Bethanyclaire]

I agree with the point about getting IEI grounded in their bodies. I love dancing and more recently I like to run. I can go into a fantasy world that feels real. I can see myself enjoying nature more and more too. It’s like a fantasy that isn’t of my creation- the music, adrenaline or nature are very real but unlike my typical emotive fantasies, they are more abstract, overblown. Sometimes I might still get on a dangerous train of thought during these activities but I think I can learn to use these opportunities to let my mind run free and know that it’s ott and I shouldn’t take it seriously.

[Bethanyclaire]

@BandD Britney is our beloved look-a-like I’m sure..I do relate to her lol

[Warm Soapy Water]

Yeah @Bethany. Poor Brit-Birt. The Te of the industry made her have that meltdown and cut her hair lol.

[Bethanyclaire]

@Stray Cat with me it’s more just like, why aren’t you being nicer? I would do it for you. (Behind the charm is genuine desire to assist and an assumption that it is needed? or something) But learning about socionics helps with that of course coz you realise people have their limits. Before socionics, I guess I kinda accepted people as not being perfect, (including me). But I also wasn’t critical enough of them in a fundamental way. Arguably I was just a naive person. Now I am trying to show off my strengths a bit more, which puts people in their position (an equal one) and makes them less likely to take advantage of you. Real confidence is knowing the limits of your charm and being gently open about your concerns or observations or beliefs but not pushing them too hard or too fast. More grounded?

[Stray Cat]

Yeah @Bethany. Poor Brit-Birt. The Te of the industry made her have that meltdown and cut her hair lol.

I admittedly get irritable once Te picks on IEI. The IEI will sport a brave face but I generally take it upon myself to take that Te burden on myself. Its easy for me to do that, given its my demo. But yeah, Britney aint innocent but usually, at least, tries to make the best choice.

[Bethanyclaire]

Yeah @Bethany. Poor Brit-Birt. The Te of the industry made her have that meltdown and cut her hair lol.

ohh. gosh I remember the tabloids..poor Brit-Brit.

[Stray Cat]

@Stray Cat with me it’s more just like, why aren’t you being nicer? I would do it for you. (Behind the charm is genuine desire to assist and an assumption that it is needed? or something) But learning about socionics helps with that of course coz you realise people have their limits. Before socionics, I guess I kinda accepted people as not being perfect, (including me). But I also wasn’t critical enough of them in a fundamental way. Arguably I was just a naive person. Now I am trying to show off my strengths a bit more, which puts people in their position (an equal one) and makes them less likely to take advantage of you. Real confidence is knowing the limits of your charm and being gently open about your concerns or observations or beliefs but not pushing them too hard or too fast. More grounded?

I'll clarify being grounded.

One IEI I know likes blokes with a good body. She recognizes age, body size & job status as significant factors. She'll then turn around & fall for a overweight, selfless, old pacifist type dude. Her Se manifests itself unconsciously & usually leads to her likely resenting an unsuspecting person with unfair expectations

[Bethanyclaire]

@Stray Cat oh..I’m not sure about that. If she won’t listen to your advice, I guess just be there as a friend in a way you can. The things you mentioned- practical advice/adventures, are important too. Check in every now and again about the situation maybe.

[Stray Cat]

@Stray Cat oh..I’m not sure about that. If she won’t listen to your advice, I guess just be there as a friend in a way you can. The things you mentioned- practical advice/adventures, are important too. Check in every now and again about the situation maybe.

I've never given her relationship advice but she respects my take in every other matter. I'm gonna take ya'lls advice but spin it my own way. Her life. Her choices, ultimately. I realize some IEI to be ridiculously stubborn with their Ni perceptions. This thread advice is great. Appreciated

[Aria]

Not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for, but if you're genuinely concerned about a relational choice they're about to make, say it in your own words while boiling it down to something like this:

"I respect that you can do whatever you want, but I want to say _____ because I’m worried about you and I care. Take it or leave it.” Mention one or two specific red flags but keep it simple. They'll probably ruminate about it a lot.

Of course every IEI is different. But I think it's good to acknowledge they're their own authority, and have probably already given a lot of Ti thought to a matter so in their mind have "good reasons" for doing what they're doing. Avoid an overly Te approach which is more like giving orders--IEI will feel this doesn't respect their autonomy or decision-making capabilities.

[ashlesha]

it doesn't have to be an idealistic lens that they see things thru. ye, positivism, but not a uniform caricature. doesn't apply to every imaginary reality that they disregard facts in favor of. i'm not mad about my ex or anything.

[persimmonism]

I perpetually swing back and forth between seeing a certain person or situation in a negative or positive light. It's like I can never pinpoint what it actually is, so I'm left to infinitely micro-tune my image. Furthermore, Ne ignoring makes it so I have difficulty accepting the existence of multiple POSSIBLE perspectives at the same time, so you bet the perspective I end up landing on has been thoroughly thought through (lol @ english) which leads to stubbornness/close-mindedness when it is challenged. Then, if I do end up changing my mind, I usually swing in the opposite direction, which is back to what I said in the beginning.

I don't know, this feels like a strange question to me because I feel like what you SLEs do best is bring us to Earth without meaning it. (I speculate it takes awhile for my ESI-Se mother to convince me of her Se statements because I sense her lack of Ti/Te authority. However, due to her Se-ish persistence and confidence, stuff ends up getting through eventually)

I suppose the IEI has to recognize the strength in considering [your] Se/Ti/Te perception to begin with which can be a previous exposure thing. If they don't, well.. it comes down to how much do you care about them to help cause then you're gonna have to be persistent (because duality and your dual's perspective can be initially bitter) but I think it'd work out if they're reasonably mature (or is that me being optimistic haha)

I think blunt matter-of-fact statements would work. Point out the "relevant info", give a few gentle reality slaps (reality pats? pokes?). The way a SLE would say it would at least sow some seeds of doubt in their minds even if in the moment the IEI dismisses/rejects it.. leave to ferment for a few weeks & who knows, they might end up critically re-evaluating someday. I personally have this processing delay where something someone told me will all of a sudden pop up two weeks later with newfound importance.

But also.. how good is your relationship with the IEIs in question? What you can/should do also depends on that. I don't know if you're talking about big or small situations? --are you talking about everyday actions to help them or of how to approach a big Let's Talk About This moment?

[Stray Cat]

Not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for, but if you're genuinely concerned about a relational choice they're about to make, say it in your own words while boiling it down to something like this:

"I respect that you can do whatever you want, but I want to say _____ because I’m worried about you and I care. Take it or leave it.” Mention one or two specific red flags but keep it simple. They'll probably ruminate about it a lot.

Of course every IEI is different. But I think it's good to acknowledge they're their own authority, and have probably already given a lot of Ti thought to a matter so in their mind have "good reasons" for doing what they're doing. Avoid an overly Te approach which is more like giving orders--IEI will feel this doesn't respect their autonomy or decision-making capabilities.

That's pretty much been the case. I don't believe in that ultimatums garbage or getting worked by a choice they make. I'm usually their mechanic or the roaring lion who protects them when sounds scare them at night.

I rarely date IEI & never give relationship advice. If I did it's more of, "If you want, let's go. If not, I'm jetting. We'll talk later".

I perpetually swing back and forth between seeing a certain person or situation in a negative or positive light. It's like I can never pinpoint what it actually is, so I'm left to infinitely micro-tune my image. Furthermore, Ne ignoring makes it so I have difficulty accepting the existence of multiple POSSIBLE perspectives at the same time, so you bet the perspective I end up landing on has been thoroughly thought through (lol @ english) which leads to stubbornness/close-mindedness when it is challenged. Then, if I do end up changing my mind, I usually swing in the opposite direction, which is back to what I said in the beginning.

I don't know, this feels like a strange question to me because I feel like what you SLEs do best is bring us to Earth without meaning it. (I speculate it takes awhile for my ESI-Se mother to convince me of her Se statements because I sense her lack of Ti/Te authority. However, due to her Se-ish persistence and confidence, stuff ends up getting through eventually)

I suppose the IEI has to recognize the strength in considering [your] Se/Ti/Te perception to begin with which can be a previous exposure thing. If they don't, well.. it comes down to how much do you care about them to help cause then you're gonna have to be persistent (because duality and your dual's perspective can be initially bitter) but I think it'd work out if they're reasonably mature (or is that me being optimistic haha)

I think blunt matter-of-fact statements would work. Point out the "relevant info", give a few gentle reality slaps (reality pats? pokes?). The way a SLE would say it would at least sow some seeds of doubt in their minds even if in the moment the IEI dismisses/rejects it.. leave to ferment for a few weeks & who knows, they might end up critically re-evaluating someday. I personally have this processing delay where something someone told me will all of a sudden pop up two weeks later with newfound importance.

But also.. how good is your relationship with the IEIs in question? What you can/should do also depends on that. I don't know if you're talking about big or small situations? --are you talking about everyday actions to help them or of how to approach a big Let's Talk About This moment?

Appreciate the take. You'd understand an IEIs thought process better than me. I'd say IEI trust me as I never betray them. I dedicate much of my time to animals. Anybody I date tends to do the same. In other words, an IEI could never accuse me of hypocrisy

In communication, I break sh*t down to it's simplest form. Not cause they're stupid but cause it's how SeTi works best. The IEI idealization is problematic cause they don't want it to be grounded. I'd say, they want the ideal, Se will cherry pick to support the ideal while Ti rationalizes away any opposing info. Fe is MIA.

Your take makes sense. Gonna try it out. My IEI relationships are cool. I just get bewildered at their tendency to repeat the same mistakes.

[Aria]

That's pretty much been the case. I don't believe in that ultimatums garbage or getting worked by a choice they make. I'm usually their mechanic or the roaring lion who protects them when sounds scare them at night.

I rarely date IEI & never give relationship advice. If I did it's more of, "If you want, let's go. If not, I'm jetting. We'll talk later".





Appreciate the take. You'd understand an IEIs thought process better than me. I'd say IEI trust me as I never betray them. I dedicate much of my time to animals. Anybody I date tends to do the same. In other words, an IEI could never accuse me of hypocrisy

In communication, I break sh*t down to it's simplest form. Not cause they're stupid but cause it's how SeTi works best. The IEI idealization is problematic cause they don't want it to be grounded. I'd say, they want the ideal, Se will cherry pick to support the ideal while Ti rationalizes away any opposing info. Fe is MIA.

Your take makes sense. Gonna try it out. My IEI relationships are cool. I just get bewildered at their tendency to repeat the same mistakes.

You sound like a pretty good friend. IEIs can be confounding at times.