Wilhelm Canaris

[Dioklecian]

[Angel von Himmel]

Ummm ... homeley ESFj might be more appropiate ... I came in here with high standards!

[Dioklecian]

Ummm ... homeley ESFj might be more appropiate ... I came in here with high standards!

I will try to find a bikini pic of his

[Angel von Himmel]

K, all I got to say is if you do find any pics like that ... they better be good!

[Dioklecian]

Look at that cute face of his, he only wants to be loved

[Angel von Himmel]

So does she ... apparently!

[science as magic]

who is he?

[Dioklecian]

who is he?

Chief of military intelligence for ******, he got support for Franco from ******. He also warned Franco of ******'s plans for his new "friend" and therefore Franco created defences that discouraged ****** from annexing Spain.

[Dioklecian]

So does she ... apparently!

Why don't people like her run the world? At least they turn you on and don't bore you

[Expat]

Admiral Canaris, head of Nazi military intelligence -- he actually tried to depose ****** and was executed.

I very much doubt he was ESFj. Perhaps ESTj.

[Slacker]

Another "nazis are esfjs" thread?

[Expat]

Apparently --

[Dioklecian]

****** was ENTJ in my opinion, but again the idea of (racial) purity and The Lebensraum (breathing space) policy, seem close to the ESFJ/INTJ agendas.

[Angel von Himmel]

So does she ... apparently!

Why don't people like her run the world? At least they turn you on and don't bore you

HAHA ... I do not know, but if all of the NAZIs had looked like that. I would have got Mike Tysons Ex-Coach Judge out to yell "LET'S BRING IT ON!"

[Dioklecian]

Another "nazis are esfjs" thread?

Well this guy does not seem to have been a friend of ****** but he sure tortured and killed a bunch of people.

[Expat]

****** was ENTJ in my opinion, but again the idea of (racial) purity and The Lebensraum (breathing space) policy, seem close to the ESFJ/INTJ agendas.

I think both statements are incorrect. ****** was no ENTj.

Anyway, care to explain how that fits into ESFj/INTj "agendas" in your opinion?

[Dioklecian]

Maybe you could disprove my belief that ****** was ENTJ, but I haven't seen anything to change my mind. I am not the first to suggest that he ENTJ by the way.

As to the agendas: I think its' a well known fact that ESFJs are obsesed with cleanliness. Did your mother complain about your body odor frequently?

INTJ NEED space as has been established by my discussions in this very forum with INTJs. However of course they mean PERSONAL space, not national space. Cleraly ****** had not metabolized very well the signals he got. So in his hands these very normal (if accentuated) demands became a monstrous demand for racial purity and national space.

I think we should not forget that the fundamentla concept in socionics is "information metabolism", everything else is just a derivative I believe.
So inadequately metabolized information creates deluded ideas that when given absolute power by the historic circumstances of chaos in post war Germany, created the Kingdom of Evil, known as the 3rd reich.

[Expat]

Maybe you could disprove my belief that ****** was ENTJ, but I haven't seen anything to change my mind. I am not the first to suggest that he ENTJ by the way.

It's not possible to disprove a belief in a typing of a historical figure. If you don't see that ****** was at least over - as even your ESFj/INTj "agenda" would suggest - I won't try.

As to the agendas: I think its' a well known fact that ESFJs are obsesed with cleanliness. Did your mother complain about your body odor frequently?

INTJ NEED space as has been established by my discussions in this very forum with INTJs. However of course they mean PERSONAL space, not national space. Cleraly ****** had not metabolized very well the signals he got. So in his hands these very normal (if accentuated) demands became a monstrous demand for racial purity and national space.

I think we should not forget that the fundamentla concept in socionics is "information metabolism", everything else is just a derivative I believe.
So inadequately metabolized information creates deluded ideas that when given absolute power by the historic circumstances of chaos in post war Germany, created the Kingdom of Evil, known as the 3rd reich.

Rather than see that as an attempt to achieve "cleanliness", it would be more useful to see it as a Beta-Aristocratic view of groups fighting each other for domination. ****** wasn't concerned with "cleanliness", he was concerned with defeating the supposed historical enemy.

[Dioklecian]

Beta people are VERY pragmatic, ****** was dogmatic. There was no real reason to destroy the Jewish community in Europe, he did it out of petty revenge.

Compare that to a Beta leader like Alexander of Amcedon, who after conquering parts pf Asia created new armies with recruits from there, even thinking of sending back the Greeks he had with him.

[Expat]

Beta people are VERY pragmatic, ****** was dogmatic. There was no real reason to destroy the Jewish community in Europe, he did it out of petty revenge.

And you think that ENTjs are typically dogmatic?

And no, it wasn't "revenge", if you think that you misunderstand it.

[Dioklecian]

Maybe you could disprove my belief that ****** was ENTJ, but I haven't seen anything to change my mind. I am not the first to suggest that he ENTJ by the way.

It's not possible to disprove a belief in a typing of a historical figure. If you don't see that ****** was at least over - as even your ESFj/INTj "agenda" would suggest - I won't try.


[.

Well, as you might have noticed I change my mind as soon as I see evidence disproving my opinions. As yet I don't see any reason as to why ****** is not ENTJ. THe ESFJ/INTJ agenda was imposed on ******, it was not integral to his type. And since it was impossed by force, it became deranged.

[Creepy-bg]

As to the agendas: I think its' a well known fact that ESFJs are obsesed with cleanliness. Did your mother complain about your body odor frequently?

I'm not sure if this fits into the discussion but I've heard that Leni Riefenstahl said ****** had the worst body odor she'd ever encountered.

[CuriousSoul]

Another "nazis are esfjs" thread?

Well this guy does not seem to have been a friend of ****** but he sure tortured and killed a bunch of people.

Wilhelm Canaris is generally considered to have been of the "good guys". Probably he did have some people "tortured and killed", but that was strictly a part of his job description. Perhaps you are not fully aware that he was heavily involved in the anti-Nazi resistance to ******, and, indeed, eventually it got him killed.

For example, from the Wikipedia:

After the outbreak of the war between Germany and Poland in 1939, Canaris visited the front and witnessed examples of the atrocities and war crimes committed by the SS Einsatzgruppen. Among these were the burning of the synagogue in Będzin and the fiery death of the town's Jewish residents. He also received reports from Abwehr agents about many other incidents of mass murder throughout Poland.

Shocked by these incidents, Canaris began working more actively, at increasing risk, to overthrow ******'s régime although he co-operated with the SD to create a decoy. This allowed him for some time to pose as a trusted man and had been promoted to full Admiral in January 1940. With his subordinate Erwin Lahousen, he established a circle of similarly-minded Wehrmacht officers, many of whom would be executed or forced to commit suicide after the failure of the July 20 Plot. A contact with the British Intelligence was speculated during this time despite the war between the two countries ; during the invasion in Russia Canaris gave a full detailed report of all the enemy positions that was known only by the British. The head of the MI6 , Stewart Menzies, who shared Canaris’s strong anti-communist beliefs, praised Canaris’s courage and bravery at the end of the war.

Reinhard Heydrich and Heinrich Himmler, however , investigated in detail the sources of Canaris on the Operation Barbarossa arriving to the conclusion that there was indeed a contact between him and the British. After 1942 Canaris visited Spain frequently and was probably in contact with British agents from Gibraltar. In 1944 he also secretly met Allied agents in occupied France trying always to find a way to end the war before the total collapse of his country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Canaris
PS Why do you think ESFJ?
Are they that good at leading double lives?