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Thread: On the Relationship Between Si and Food

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    Default On the Relationship Between Si and Food

    So this came up in the chatbox earlier as people were talking about diets, stress-eating, etc., and my curiosity was piqued. I would like to know more about how the position of Si impacts one's relationship with food. As I have stated before, I came from MBTI-land not terribly long ago and may still hold some misconceptions about how Socionics treats some of the information elements, and as I think is pretty common for a lot of people, the irrational elements require a little more effort to understand completely. Is the position of Si in the psyche likely to influence the frequency of eating, likelihood of over-eating, tendency to under-eat, and other associated behaviours?

    I believe myself to be Si-role (this is because I think that I am IEI in Socionics), and I am very prone to forgetting to eat or just not having much of an appetite because stress makes me feel queasy. I often find myself not realizing that I am particularly hungry until someone "reminds me" and then suddenly I'll realize I need to eat something and feel super hungry. It's like the signaling is either very weak or else just easily overridden by other things for me. I also am very aware that I do this and tend to compensate by being very careful to never eat out for two meals in a row, and pay attention to the diversity of foods that I'm eating. I actually really enjoy cooking too (especially when I'm high) as it's a creative outlet for me. I have been chronically underweight since birth and apparently the doctors told my mom to feed me some sort of special formula when I was young cause they were concerned about my weight. I think it's just genetic though. My mom who I believe to be ESE is very petite at under 100 pounds. My dad, who I believe to be SEI, was over 220 when I was younger but has since tried really hard to diet and exercise often and is at 180ish now. I think he's pretty "normal" as far as build goes. At least compared to my mom and I.

    In reading about Socionics I've gotten the impression that a lot of people believe Si -> more weight, but is this necessarily the case? From my perspective, assuming my typings of my parents are correct, it looks as though two Si ego types can easily vary drastically in this regard. What do y'all think? What is the relationship between Si, eating, body build, and all that jazz? Additional comments about Si not directly related to the topic are also welcome. I feel it's the function MBTI does the least justice and I want to understand it better

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    Jungian typologies are cognitive instead of behaviorism. So don't relate it simply with a behavior.

    Jung's Si = Socionic Si.
    Last edited by CR400AF; 05-08-2021 at 09:35 AM.

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    Si does not equal more weight because over eating is uncomfortable and being fat is uncomfortable.

    There are fat and skinny people of all types. I’m pretty sure that all of these people claiming to know only fat Si egos are experiencing major confirmation bias.

    I also forget to eat when I’m busy. I believe that’s less of an intuitive thing and more of a human thing.

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    @CR400AF Thanks! This is very helpful!!
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    @Poptart Yeah I don't feel this is a stereotype in the MBTI community, but I've run into this idea a lot since moving to Socionics. I wondered if it was just one of those persistent myths or if I was genuinely not understanding something. Most of my extended family I had typed as Alphas and Deltas yet there's plenty of variety in body type I feel
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    I have Si demonstrative. First of all, my career is in cooking food. I enjoy it (and the process of cooking) enough that I'm willing to prepare it/think about it for hours out of every day.

    For me, food is divided into two things: the joy of eating something lovely, and the fact that food/nutrients are required to survive. In regards to myself, most of my focus is on the second one. I don't mind eating the same thing for a week straight as long as it's reasonably tasty and healthy. I'm quite fit (into bodybuilding/lifting weights and lead an active life) so I pay a fair amount of attention to the health of food. I don't count calories or anything like that, though. If I'm getting fatter than I want, I eat less. If I can spare to pack on some pounds, I eat more. I generally eat 1-2 times a day, depending on work, whether I exercise, and what I plan on eating. The fast doesn't bother me.

    Sometimes I'll invest a lot of effort into a meal, or I'll go out to eat something scrumptious. Going out to eat is more about tasting things than eating to get full (though I often get very full).

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    I pretty much eat the same things every day. I’ve never cared that much about food when younger. I was really skinny when I was younger and my mom said I ate like a bird. I was just busy thinking about other things. However, after 4 kids and being in my mid 30’s, I will say, I notice the more I weigh, the more I seem to crave food. The less I weigh, the less I crave it. I think if you had bad eating habits from a young age, they might be pretty hard to change.


     
    Personally, when I was around 13-ish, I started thinking my face looked fat. I became really self conscious about it. I remember eating chip dip and seeing how fattening it was, and then I stopped with the junk food. In my teens I barely ate. Honestly didn’t THINK about it that much back then. But occasionally I’d crave something like cheez it’s (junk food has always been a no no for me) and put cheezits in my mouth and spit it out. Felt like I was being clever and beating the system because I got to taste it, but what was the point in eating something unhealthy anyway?
     



    Anyway, I gained maybe a few lbs in college with my boyfriend/now husband, because we’d eat out a lot as something to do. As he says to me, “I take you places and you don’t eat, you just want to go somewhere” but I mean, I did eat. A little bit lol


    Gaining weight when I was pregnant and then loosing was the hardest the first and second time, because I never had to lose that much before. I had to research how to do it. And I became a bit obsessive about it after my second kid. I was literally tracking my calories, weighing myself every morning, eating the same thing every day. It became like a game, a competition. I swear I got some kind of high off of it. You get a ton of energy. Eating to me became a game...eating healthy (no junk) mainly because it was lower fat and I could get more energy, and maintain a certain weight (107lbs). It was a game of control. Sometimes I’d fall off the horse and gain a few, but as soon as I started feeling badly about myself, it was game on. You could call this an eating disorder, I suppose. But I never tried starving myself to death, so no one really interferes.


    But I think about food a lot. I’m a bit obsessed with cookies at the moment. I’ll get a food on my mind, like subway, and think and think about it until I get it. It’s what happens when you restrict yourself. You become obsessed with food


    Anyway, my point is. All of this is really damn complicated and if you are judging by behavior or weight, it can fluctuate a lot.


    I noticed people that have high Si seem to notice nuances in food that I don’t. They seem to care how good their food is or whether it’s burnt (I don’t). I’m more of an eat to survive person. I’ll eat a ton of gross shit given it’s low fat and healthy. And I hate to cook. I hate spending money on food. And I hate cleaning up the mess. I just don’t feel like it’s worth to prepare a big meal and then you eat it pretty fast. Seems like a waste of time. But I do enjoy going out to eat, mainly for the experience, getting out of the house, seeing new places, being around people. I mean, I’ll try about any new food, but I’m not actively seeking it out and it’s not that important to me. But restricting myself for so long can make me kind of obsessive about certain foods
    for a period (like I need a pizza so bad, I’m just going to eat it and get it over with so I can get on with my life and back on the horse )

    I used to forget to eat when I was younger or busier (and I agree, anyone can), but the older I get and the more I stay at home, not eating or thinking about it seems harder. But I think about everyone is like that really.
    Last edited by aster; 05-07-2021 at 03:09 PM.
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    Si is about evaluation of pleasant for you sensations. food is a kind of such pleasure

    read Jung's and Filatova's books
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    There is a pattern to my diet:

    I am now overweight, but when I was skinny in university, I still loved my food. I would eat small meals and small portions, but I would savour what I eat, even if it was something as simple as a TV dinner.

    Now, even though I'm overweight, I focus much more on vegetarian food and healthy food. I would say that about half of my diet is vegetarian - and I do it for ethical reasons. I would say about a third to half is really healthy. The other remaining part of my diet is just food that I enjoy. The meals that are healthy or vegetarian, I try to enjoy, but the remaining part that I pick out, I savour. I guess I can be a real 'gourmand.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Si is about evaluation of pleasant for you sensations. food is a kind of such pleasure

    read Jung's and Filatova's books
    Eating massive amounts of food might be a pleasure for you, but I think the key word here is evaluation. Si does not eat indiscriminately.

    I’ve always been an extremely picky eater. I don’t eat for fun. I can eat the same thing every day and not get bored. I literally ate the same salad from Trader Joe’s nearly every day for a year and a half and only stopped after I moved across town (it became less convenient to pick up).
    Last edited by Poptart; 05-07-2021 at 04:39 PM.

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    Got family members with Si-ego. They're detailed about food. The temperature is important, not so much the nutritional aspects. It's personalized & isn't unusual for the to carry particular foods from the past & place great importance on them

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CR400AF View Post
    Jungian typologies are cognitive instead of behaviorism. So don't relate it simply with a behavior.

    For an in-depth review of Si I'd recommend this post: What is Si? A united thereotical perspective | Personality Cafe

    It's not solely based on Socionic terms, however it's indeed that same. Jung's Si = Socionic Si.

    A note to the post: In Socionics, introversion is defined as relationship-oriented, which is a bit different than Jung. However, they are indeed essentially the same. The difference is that Jung's term is introvert-biased while Aushra's term is more neutral.
    That "in-depth review on Si" was really painful to read. He has read Jung but he hasn't understood him. The text is full of misunderstandings and irrelevant things such as talking about "rituals". There is no point in trying to unify mbti and Jung since mbti has totally misunderstood Jung a long time ago. But he assumes that mbti is correct (it isn't).

    Jung's description of Si is outstanding but it's almost impossible to understand unless you personally experience what Si is.

    I agree with you though that Jung and Socionics Si is the same thing.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    To me it seems like Si egos do not really hve any sort of rituals around food. I think gammas and betas have it much more. I had Si ego parents and we didn't have any sort of specific dinner time or even get together. It was like mb you should eat and we have food so stuff it in your pie hole when you have time.
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    I live with two Si ego people, they have such great grasp of when and what to eat. I don't. So I have terrible relationship with food (and health in general).
    ESE brother is such a gourmand. He loves cooking too. But he knows his limits, is keen with regards to nutritional quality of food and how it is prepared.
    SLI mother is not that much of a gourmand and eats food mostly as sustenance. If she would be by herself she would eat the plainest stuff with the most appropriate nutritional content for her. Her weight sometimes fluctuate due to sluggishness and other external issues but in general she knows what food she needs to eat and has no issues regulating her eating.
    If they eat too much, they know that they have to stop and compensate for that after either by eating less or doing more activity. They don't have rituals when it comes to eating.
    Sleep-deprivation and stress also cause one to overeat. They don't have issue with those.

    For me, I have to have a personal method when it comes to eating because I don't have the ability to really gauge those things. Sometimes I feel weird all of a sudden or panic that I'm fat. So I have to look at the scale sometimes just to lessen the detachment to reality. I might also eat nothing the whole day then eat a lot after realizing how hungry I am. Or maybe get a sudden feeling that I should not be eating a certain food for no reason. Or feel like I'm sick and unhealthy so I have to always take multiple supplements after eating food because food might not be enough sustenance. I realize it's much better for me to either follow Sensing types or I eat the same thing everyday to not have issues. I also get an unhealthy attachment to a certain food that I would eat that thing the whole day everyday and nothing else. If I'm not that self-conscious and not have paranoia about weight I'll be very fat.
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    The impression I got was that as Si grows stronger so does the priority placed on "savouring" things, whether that is individual flavours from a dish or notes as they develop in a perfume.

    The contemplation of and sensitivity to pleasure.

    It is easier for me to understand how introverted sensation (blocked with Ne), when applied to one's relationship with food, is not bound by time/future-proofing or a fixed ideal/result.

    When Si is stronger: a sense of wellbeing discovered by an individual is preferred over cookie-cutter preventative measures and OSFA health benchmarks.

    Perhaps when Si is weaker (or Se is prioritised), you may approach cuisine with a fixed outcome in mind. There could be diverse flavours and preparation methods ripe for experimentation and enjoyment that you could be glossing over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    To me it seems like Si egos do not really hve any sort of rituals around food. I think gammas and betas have it much more. I had Si ego parents and we didn't have any sort of specific dinner time or even get together. It was like mb you should eat and we have food so stuff it in your pie hole when you have time.
    In my experience beta and gamma can have pretty strong rituals around food and meals. Alphas sometimes have it too. Deltas never seemed to care much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    In my experience beta and gamma can have pretty strong rituals around food and meals. Alphas sometimes have it too. Deltas never seemed to care much.
    I can only recall social rituals and those usually involve food or those are rather easy to build around it. Yeah, but I think Si valuers due to lack of ritual ceremonies around food may end up consuming food too much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    That "in-depth review on Si" was really painful to read. He has read Jung but he hasn't understood him. The text is full of misunderstandings and irrelevant things such as talking about "rituals". There is no point in trying to unify mbti and Jung since mbti has totally misunderstood Jung a long time ago. But he assumes that mbti is correct (it isn't).
    Thanks for pointing out. I also agree that MBTI is not correct. It seems that Si and Ne in MBTI becomes to conflicted functions while have opposite values so that system is not working.

    I am not a Si ego so I acknowledge that I don't really understand how Si is working. Recently someone in a Chinese MBTI communities claim that MBTI Si/Se = Jung's Si/Se while Socionics misunderstood Jung and changed the definitions so I found that post as it tries to explain that Socionics' = Jung's.

    As for the ritual thing I agree that it's kind of MBTI stereotype and it shouldn't be connected to Si. I think he also believed that MBTI is wrong but he did connected Si with MBTI stereotypes in that post so that's a problem of that post. Also I think Jung's definition of introversion is exactly the same as Aushra's definition. But I don't understand how Si is working so I think I have to try to read more post by Si-egos.
    Last edited by CR400AF; 05-08-2021 at 10:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    To me it seems like Si egos do not really hve any sort of rituals around food. I think gammas and betas have it much more. I had Si ego parents and we didn't have any sort of specific dinner time or even get together. It was like mb you should eat and we have food so stuff it in your pie hole when you have time.
    That sounds like me and my parents; food is simply in the fridge, just prepare it when you want to eat. And I sometimes eat something nice at 2 AM if it suits me. Sleep is the same way. I sometimes go to bed early, other nights I go to sleep at 4 AM.

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    @BrightDemonSheep96 , @jason_m

    Are your parents rational or irrational?

    Haven't you had meals together when you were child and everyone was at home?

    Doesn't it take too much time and dishes to cook the same meal for seperate people since the meal has to be cooked at different times?

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    @myresearch

    Well, around the time when mother died and our family got some help. It was just noted that we seemed to operate in very autonomous manner and we had somewhat ad hoc solutions when it was needed (low respect for guidance or help, focus on improvisation) and we still do...lol.

    Are your parents rational or irrational?
    Dad mb creative sub and irrational. I'm not sure of my mother and I'll never be.
    Last edited by BrightDemonSheep96; 05-09-2021 at 06:04 AM.
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    I don't know- I think Si being related to food is kind of like this ultra crude very vague stereotype - like a gay guy will always know how to decorate your living room, or black people like watermelon etc.

    I view Si as more like your levels of internal psychological comfort with people. Si polrs usually come off abrasive and like they don't care how comfortable they're really making anybody else. LIE it's like hammering you to buy a product u don't really need to make them stronger and you weaker with a Fe role snake oil smile and with EIE it's like 'Haha breeder, I'm a drag queen with a unicorn on my head.'

    There is a lot of positive side to Si polr though. I think you can get a lot of stuff done being oblivious/not caring about harmony with others. In theory a SEI can not care at all but also be incredibly manipulative as that is more their ego.

    Well IEI's Si is 2D so it means I so-so care about my internal comfort/harmony with others which makes sense to me.

    It relates to food on how it's presented, I think. I will kinda half-heartedly awkwardly ask anybody if they would like a glass of water- but my ESE mom will kind of shove it up your anus even if you said you didn't want any. Usually followed by a "Are you sure?" after they were clearly told no. Because you are so ultra confident in your ego function. So when it's immediately turned down- it's very common to be like 'No wait- NO . I must hit you with this!' Don't mean to pick on ESEs tho - we are all like that with our very strong 4D lead function.

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    1) My mom is ESI, my dad IEE.
    2) We used to eat together, but when I became an adult, we stopped doing this. (My dad was usually at work and not at home anyway...)
    3) My mom just cooks one meal per weekday. Me and my dad reheat it separately. On weekends, we eat out and eat together for dinner. For the other meals, we have to fend for ourselves.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CR400AF View Post
    Thanks for pointing out. I also agree that MBTI is not correct. It seems that Si and Ne in MBTI becomes to conflicted functions while have opposite values so that system is not working.

    I am not a Si ego so I acknowledge that I don't really understand how Si is working. Recently someone in a Chinese MBTI communities claim that MBTI Si/Se = Jung's Si/Se while Socionics misunderstood Jung and changed the definitions so I found that post as it tries to explain that Socionics' = Jung's.

    As for the ritual thing I agree that it's kind of MBTI stereotype and it shouldn't be connected to Si. I think he also believed that MBTI is wrong but he did connected Si with MBTI stereotypes in that post so that's a problem of that post. Also I think Jung's definition of introversion is exactly the same as Aushra's definition. But I don't understand how Si is working so I think I have to try to read more post by Si-egos.

    Well Si is not that hard to understand. The person senses inner impressions from the environment and the body. It's like sensing things "from within". When he sees an object he immediately focuses on the inner sensations that develop. He perceives the environment as a little more "soulful" or "deeper" than a normal person. These sensations ultimately come from the unconscious (just like Ni), but he sees them in the object.

    These sensations are just part of the psyche, and are of course rooted in our evolutionary past.

    But I would never have become aware of this, if I hadn't read Jung. It's hard to see something when you're standing in the middle of it.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    @Tallmo

    I know this isn't about Si, it is about Ni, but I wanted to ask because I want to know how Si ego operates in this manner.

    Do you have a mental visual imaginary?

    For example, when you or others talk, do you get different kind of visuals that symbolize what has been said or done, etc or when you listen to some music, do you have have these kind of flashes or scenes without an effort?

    Do you create imaginary worlds in your head?

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    @Tallmo

    I know this isn't about Si, it is about Ni, but I wanted to ask because I want to know how Si ego operates in this manner.

    Do you have a mental visual imaginary?

    For example, when you or others talk, do you get different kind of visuals that symbolize what has been said or done, etc or when you listen to some music, do you have have these kind of flashes or scenes without an effort?

    Do you create imaginary worlds in your head?
    No I don't, at least not that much. I have very weak "imaginary worlds". Of course I do imagine things, but I think that's just what everybody does, just normal. It's not strong. I'm basically stuck in a sensory-impressionistic world.

    do you get different kind of visuals that symbolize what has been said or done, etc
    I would be very interested in knowing more about this. Because it sounds foreign to me. So you mean actually visualizing things that symbolize what has been said or done. Sounds Ni for sure.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I would be very interested in knowing more about this. Because it sounds foreign to me. So you mean actually visualizing things that symbolize what has been said or done. Sounds Ni for sure.
    Examples: when I think I comprehend something to its core, I imagine squeezing the water of a wet paper or a new idea arises and I picture a blossoming flower or when I see an angry person is being fooled and being used via flattery, I imagine a crying baby getting fed, or when I see a person getting what they want despite other people's preventions, I imagine a swinging sword or a knockout.

    I actually don't know for sure if these things are the result of Ni or Ne, because these things could be result of Ne(analogies) or Ni(symbols) or both. I have seen both Ni-doms and Ne-doms using words that describes similar things, rational intuition types use it in a more interactive way imo.


    I personally don't visualize everything at all times, sometimes it pops out before words, sometimes it pops out after or when I am re-visiting what happened. However, especially when I listen music alone, some scenes always appears.

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    @Tallmo
    I think this encapsulates Si
    https://lyricstranslate.com/en/suuri...ely-shore.html

    Right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    Hmm. I think that poem sounds more Fi, or sentimental
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Hmm. I think that poem sounds more Fi, or sentimental
    Yes, it is introverted but seems less static because it lives in the moment and makes no division.
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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    Examples: when I think I comprehend something to its core, I imagine squeezing the water of a wet paper or a new idea arises and I picture a blossoming flower or when I see an angry person is being fooled and being used via flattery, I imagine a crying baby getting fed, or when I see a person getting what they want despite other people's preventions, I imagine a swinging sword or a knockout.

    I actually don't know for sure if these things are the result of Ni or Ne, because these things could be result of Ne(analogies) or Ni(symbols) or both. I have seen both Ni-doms and Ne-doms using words that describes similar things, rational intuition types use it in a more interactive way imo.


    I personally don't visualize everything at all times, sometimes it pops out before words, sometimes it pops out after or when I am re-visiting what happened. However, especially when I listen music alone, some scenes always appears.
    It seems Ni for me as it is relational and dynamic.

    I have vivid imagines but my imagines are quite static that it is like a set of possibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    These sensations are just part of the psyche, and are of course rooted in our evolutionary past.

    But I would never have become aware of this, if I hadn't read Jung. It's hard to see something when you're standing in the middle of it.
    It seems that it's a key point that it's rooted in the evolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CR400AF View Post
    It seems Ni for me as it is relational and dynamic.

    I have vivid imagines but my imagines are quite static that it is like a set of possibilities.
    Can you describe it?

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    I'm the most willing to try new foods out of my family members. Stress makes me lose my appetite completely. After a 2 hour gym workout (cardio + machines/weights) I'm ready to chew someone's arm off. I'm still wondering how people stay well hydrated cuz I love coffee/energy drinks/pre workout drinks & how do you drink lots of water on top of that without running to the bathroom every 15 minutes? I'm still trying to get more consistent with my eating cuz I prolly go from eating 300 calories one day to 3000 the next. I've stayed within 100-115 lbs for the last 10 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    Can you describe it?
    Just for my own imagines.

    For instance when I am taking a train I would imagine many possibilities: how could future railway stations be? how could future trains be? Are there any other possibly railways to build? etc. And each of them offers various possibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CR400AF View Post
    Just for my own imagines.

    For instance when I am taking a train I would imagine many possibilities: how could future railway stations be? how could future trains be? Are there any other possibly railways to build? etc. And each of them offers various possibilities.
    Do you visualize those things in your mind?

    If not, do you visualize/imagine other things in your mind?

    Have you have your own imaginary worlds, etc?


    When I said Ne-doms also talk that way, I meant analogies they are also like symbols in a way. For example, at work, we are using a tool that we enter different kinds of data then it calculates the result of something. IEE was describing how the tool works to someone who didn't know anything. She said tool works like a blender, we put every ingredient in it, then it gives us the result.

    I also wanted to add that even Se-doms talk in this manner sometimes when they want to be inspirational and/or motivational. SLE manager is talking about how we do the job, he is saying that we use grass cutter sword to find our path.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    Yes, it is introverted but seems less static because it lives in the moment and makes no division.
    I read the poem again.

    Maybe Ni intuitions evoked from the environment. Si would be the pure sensations with a certain "mood" in them but without the deeper meaning that is expressed in this poem.

    In a way one can say that Ni can be used to refer to Si. You just have to subtract the symbolism.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I read the poem again.

    Maybe Ni intuitions evoked from the environment. Si would be the pure sensations with a certain "mood" in them but without the deeper meaning that is expressed in this poem.

    In a way one can say that Ni can be used to refer to Si. You just have to subtract the symbolism.
    Tallmo, I've been thinking lately about Si, and it seems to me that Ne egos experience it something like this, through a somewhat intuitive filter which Si people don't have. It's difficult for me to explain the feeling, but I would guess that poem would speak to most Ne people's somewhat distorted and weak experience of it, even if actual Si people wouldn't agree. Basically I'm saying that I think I see what BDS96 is seeing when he associates the song with Si.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CR400AF View Post
    It seems that it's a key point that it's rooted in the evolution.
    Yes, one could say it's like a weak echo of accumulated sensory experience with the environment since the dawn of mankind. In that way it's more permanent than the ever-changing concrete objects, Jung points out this.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    Do you visualize those things in your mind?

    If not, do you visualize/imagine other things in your mind?

    Have you have your own imaginary worlds, etc?


    When I said Ne-doms also talk that way, I meant analogies they are also like symbols in a way. For example, at work, we are using a tool that we enter different kinds of data then it calculates the result of something. IEE was describing how the tool works to someone who didn't know anything. She said tool works like a blender, we put every ingredient in it, then it gives us the result.

    I also wanted to add that even Se-doms talk in this manner sometimes when they want to be inspirational and/or motivational. SLE manager is talking about how we do the job, he is saying that we use grass cutter sword to find our path.
    I hardly ever visualize my imagines. My imagery mostly works in language mode.

    I prefer analogies to symbols. I often move an object to another context. Similar to Aushra's. eg. She use potential energy and kinetic energy to decsribe Ne and Se. I also do that often I may explain a mathematical theorem with physic, computer science or even psychology.

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