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Thread: Are activation relations really the best for friendship?

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    Default Are activation relations really the best for friendship?

    So my boyfriend thinks that activation relations are better for friendship due to the fact that SEIs have a tendency to not talk very much during conversations. ESEs having more Fe are able to make jokes and keep the conversation going in his opinion. He thinks that I should find a LII friend and he should find an ESE friend. However I am not sure, because I have not ever really spoken to a LII in real life.

    What is Alpha Quadra's experience with activation relationships? Do you think that activation is better than duality for friendships? What is the best relationship for friendships in your opinion?

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    The best relationship for friendship is someone who puts you first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    The best relationship for friendship is someone who puts you first.
    Unfortunately such relations of sacrifice are so rare that we might as well be loners for the rest of our lives. It is hard to meet someone you can truly accept and engage with, socionics aside. We kind of have to put down our illusions of such things happening and accept reality.

    One of the biggest problems is that we wait for the other person to sacrifice first, and also that we always are never satisfied.

    The amount of time and priority a person gives you is mostly proportional to how much they like you. However there can always be other factors present as well, like a general misunderstanding of each other, and neither of you want to verbalize your discomfort with words so you just ignore each other.
    Last edited by MidnightWilderness; 05-04-2021 at 07:30 PM.

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    One of my best friends is LII. We’ve been friends for 8 years. We actually dated for the first three of those years and have been just friends for the last five. Is it the best itr for friendship? Idk, but I’d say it’s a pretty good one. We enjoy each other’s company and communication is easy.

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    In theory it makes sense

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    I mean theoretically all inter-quadral relationships could be good for friendship, but in real life it doesn't really work that way. The odd thing is, my ILE boyfriend doesn't particularly like his mirrors, he feels they are too distant and self contained. Although mirrors are described as being a mostly work related IR and even then not very good at understanding. Activation would be easier in the sense of a friendship and ease of communication.

    I don't really think I have had relations with someone in the same Quadra as me apart from my boyfriend, so I can't really say much about mirrors or activations or duals or identicals apart from my immediate impressions of them.

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    My best friend in HS was an ESI Dual. I'd place this friendship at a relative level of 100.

    My second best friend was an IEI Supervisee, and I'd place him at a friendship level of 40.

    Coming up third was an ILI mirror whose friendship I valued at 30% that of the ESI.

    I had an SEE lab partner in HS Chemistry. She was smart and fun and I liked and respected her, but I didn't hang out with her because she was female and a year older than me and I was a robot space-alien. I can't really rate her on the friendship scale, other than to say that I did like her as a person.

    I didn't know any Identicals, or if I did, I didn't hang out with them.

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    I've had many SEI friends/near-friends; my best friend at school was one (the second was an ILE). It goes pretty well in my experience. I don't know whether it's better or worse than dual friendships -- I'd guess that duals are less likely to take notice of each other, so friendships are less likely to begin in the first place.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 05-05-2021 at 12:01 AM.

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    For non-sexual, lasting friendships, the more common ones seem to be from the same temperament: both are either Ijs, Ejs, Ips or Eps. I've seen more than a few identical and super-ego friendships. Not many seem to be from the same quadra although common interests do bring together strange bedfellows but they tend to remain acquaintances rather than become close friends. It's no wonder that duals have difficulty meeting because they rarely have common interests; common geography is the next best thing to bring them together.

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    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 05-05-2021 at 03:06 PM. Reason: grammar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    Unfortunately such relations of sacrifice are so rare that we might as well be loners for the rest of our lives. It is hard to meet someone you can truly accept and engage with, socionics aside. We kind of have to put down our illusions of such things happening and accept reality.
    I don't think putting the other person first necessarily means something as extreme as sacrifice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    I don't think putting the other person first necessarily means something as extreme as sacrifice.
    Yes because you sacrifice valuable time to be with them. Putting somebody first above everything else means you sacrifice other priorities for them. In real life the action is less dramatic because usually by that point it feels like less of a sacrifice because you actually like to spend time with that person.

    I don't know, I don't really have any friends. I used to but it went over kind of badly so I am a little cynical when it comes to friendships.

    Frankly I have given up on friendship for the time being as I have no current purpose for a friend, besides I am moving so what's the point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    Yes because you sacrifice valuable time to be with them. Putting somebody first above everything else means you sacrifice other priorities for them. In real life the action is less dramatic because usually by that point it feels like less of a sacrifice because you actually like to spend time with that person.

    I don't know, I don't really have any friends. I used to but it went over kind of badly so I am a little cynical when it comes to friendships.

    Frankly I have given up on friendship for the time being as I have no current purpose for a friend, besides I am moving so what's the point?
    Friendships don't need to have purpose and I've found that having expectations can ruin my internal experience of them. in any case i hope and believe you'll have successful friendships in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Friendships don't need to have purpose and I've found that having expectations can ruin my internal experience of them. in any case i hope and believe you'll have successful friendships in the future.
    I don't really have any expectations, I guess I am just too introverted and insane for friends. I don't understand why people have friendships because I can't really feel connected to people and their conversations.

    Are friends just for fun then? And what is fun when talking to someone even like?

    I think I will only have successful friendships when I can become more interesting as a human being and finally regain sanity. Which is entirely possible, but it's really difficult to restructure your mind that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    I don't really have any expectations, I guess I am just too introverted and insane for friends. I don't understand why people have friendships because I can't really feel connected to people and their conversations.

    Are friends just for fun then? And what is fun when talking to someone even like?

    I think I will only have successful friendships when I can become more interesting as a human being and finally regain sanity. Which is entirely possible, but it's really difficult to restructure your mind that way.
    No you're a very interesting person, i've told u before and i firmly believe it!! I just think you need to be less self-absorbed and take life and yourself less seriously.
    saying this because I've been there too.

    Friends are for fun, sure, but on a deeper level, people are the ones with the power to bring you up or down. (that's where choosing good friends comes in) you shouldn't underestimate this power.

    Personally, fun is when the socialization stops feeling like a chore that I'm supposed to do. It's kinda rare though.
    Furthermore, and this has only happened once before for me, when it stops feeling like socialization to begin, then I know that this is something really good.

    But as a disclaimer, maybe you shouldn't take reference from me because I don't approach friendship in the same way as most people (based on my observations). I basically approach them the same as romantic relationships, except platonically. in elementary school i'd get jealous and upset when a friend acted like i wasn't their one and only friend. like some serial friendship monogamy thing. took me a while to realize how my perception of friendships was slightly skewed, lol.

    there are only a few people i bother to deeply emotionally invest in, and i think the rest i hold at a distance in a classic sx-blind way.
    i really search to emotionally connect deeply with everyone I'm friends with, and if the connection or possibility of connection doesn't exist, then i essentially "check out" of the friendship, since it doesn't feel like there's any point. although since i'm pretty optimistic about people, i typically try a lot before giving up.


    -----

    oh,also, as a response to the thread title. some activation relations can be really tiring, so i'm not sure. i'd say that friendships with complementary temperaments are best. with dual at the top, obviously. otherwise, as an IEI I get along fantastically with alpha NTs (for friendship)

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    @MidnightWilderness

    I can't speak to Alpha Quadra specifically, but I can tell you in my own experience my closest friends tend to almost invariably be Ti-ego types, and indeed one of my longest lasting friendships has been with my Activator (ISTj). I am equally close with an INTj, ENTp, and an ENFp. The people who I happen to be the absolute closest with however and feel I could share almost anything with are my ISTp aunt and my ENTp brother (not the same ENTp as I mentioned earlier). Generally speaking I get along great with my Mirage and my Beneficiary. I also have lovely, but rather shallow relationships with my Supervisee (ESFj). I don't really "have problems" with anyone in my life, but I tend to have the most difficulty vibing with Delta types. In groups of mixed quadras it feels like Deltas are often unamused by my attempts at humour and stifle my self-expression either directly (ESTj) or indirectly by just deadpanning (INFj). When discussions turn political it feels to me as though Deltas focus intensely on the least important aspects of the topic, sacrificing broader vision to personal feelings and resisting attempts to shift their focus. This tends to result in me struggling to form lasting friendships with them when compared to other quadras

    By the way, I don't dislike Deltas, I have a great relationship with my sisters, two of whom happen to be Deltas, and I am very close with my ISTp aunt as I said before. I am speaking purely about my accumulated experience with the quadra over my lifetime averaged out to the broadest trends. Other Betas and Alphas tend to be the easiest relationships for me, with Gamma being sort of mixed and very dependent on the individual. Weirdly I don't feel I have many specific expectations of people from Gamma quadra. I tend to have no idea how they're going to be up front whereas with every other quadra I feel I can tell quite quickly how the relationship will go most of the time. This could very easily have to do with my inexperience with the quadra though since other than my youngest sister (ENTj) and my evangelical uncle (ESFp), I don't really know any well. I've had many Gammas come into my life and got along with them fine at the time, but the relationships just don't last any longer than the circumstances for our meeting in the first place
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    My longest lasting friendships are with SEI and ILI. I usually always have a IEE friend too. My SEE sister is someone I’m in constant contact with too (especially in more recent years). The SEI and ILI are friendships of 15+ years. They’re just there in the background and never went away They are both E5 to my E9.

    I did have an LSI and EIE friend throughout school...
    Last edited by Bethany; 05-06-2021 at 07:54 AM.
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    My conversations with ESI irl always take hours and hours. I mostly listen to what they are up to recently, their hobbies, etc. They also get my sentiments immediately and can relate to them. Something about ESI is very likeable. I also like it when they get engrossed talking about themselves sometimes. Good ITR is good ITR.

    I do have some good friendships too. I’m not going to say Activity is the best. Maybe in theory yes bec they are similar to your dual and are easily found. In my case introvert-introvert can easily get lost in their own bubble too which is nice sometimes. But friendships get stronger the most for me when I get to face a difficult issue with them (maybe this a strength of duals too because you get to help each other fully). So I would consider some non-compatible types as best for me just because circumstances led us to face a problem together. Like this one person who is not really that compatible in ITR to me I think. We’ve been friends for years already and have spent a lot of time with each other dealing with our personal issues. I’ve never had an ESI help me yet on some difficult problem and I also never have saved them so I don’t know how it would be different.

    Additionally, I think incompatible types can be great friends as long as you know the optimal distance. I guess it depends on what kind of friendship you want at that moment. IEI friend from the past would spend time with me talking about books. I get to laugh and talk about my problems with EII. ILE would share random stuff exactly when I get bored and depressed. They all have their strengths. Maybe it would actually be very nice to have friends of all types?
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    They can be very friendly but depends on the level of sexual tension. It's like hot wild fire if you are sexually compatible - and it's not some one sided crush thing. LSI gay men whoah- it's like this hot bed of homoerotic lust when I touch one. We could never be friends lol. It's too much 'on fire' for that. Love is just friendship on fire but... when u have that animalistic spark, u clearly can't ever be 'just friends' even if you want to on paper. You want to rip each other's clothes off and devour each other and spit on each other and just fuck.

    But with LSI str8 man I notice I can have this weird one sided crush on them and they obviously don't want anything to do witih me cuz I'm not a girl. and I do respect people's boundaries- so I avoid them as I don't want anything weird between us and I respect their heterosexuality. (as HaveLucidDreamz would say - bless his heart.) Some with a lot of LSI females- I noticed that subconsciously they just want me to be a real straight man and fuck them brutally cuz they get this one sided crush on them but I never do so instead they get mad and tell me to stop putting a pretty ribbon on everything. One-sided sexual attraction sucks- but mutual sexual tension can't ever really be friends either cuz you don't wanna 'be friends' you want to devour each other. Ideally you find something in the middle but when is life ever ideal and perfect?

    So for friendship to happen- you both need to respect each other & get along/value what the other says but not have too much sexual chemistry. LSIs are usually naturally hot to me. So I would be very good friends with a LSI probably if it was a straight woman and I also didn't turn her on in a one sided way. Or if it's a gay/str8 male LSI that I got along well with but didn't find hot (but I usually just want to have hot sex with gay male LSIs cuz damn they are hot to me.) The entire point of activator is they 'activate you' or stimulate you- and sexuality is naturally related to simulation, so the sex thing can get in the way here.

    I hope I made sense with that lol.

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    @BandD I find this topic of friendship and attraction really interesting. I have just had a friendship end with a guy who I liked a lot for a while. There is a part of me that thinks he was attracted to me and pushed me away on some level because of this. It might have been slightly more one sided, but I’m not sure how significantly so. There is this part of me that hopes we’ll be friends again one day, when we’re old and different people lol.

    Also, about attraction between straight/gay people- well, I am very much straight, and I’ve had a sheltered love life over all so I’ve never experimented or anything. I do remember having a big crush on a teacher at a school I worked at who could have been LSE. I wasn’t too disappointed when I found out he was gay and I did not have a chance lol. Didn’t really know him though, just observed him teaching lots in cute check suits. Also just thought of this girl, a DJ, who seemed interested in me for a while. We didn’t become friends in the end as we probably both knew it wouldn’t work. Anyway I just looked her up now and she is really hot and cool. I kind of imagine I’d probably feel quite shy around her and charmed by her- might be a bit overwhelming!

    Also, I have a female SLE friend who lives abroad bit I still visit. She once physically dressed me up in an outfit when we were getting ready to go to a fetish club in Berlin- a night she planned. It was quite an intimate moment lol. I’m sure this is not uncommon between people but maybe coz she’s a dual it can sometimes feel quite magnetic that way.
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    duality and mb semiduality should be better
    activation has problems: different J/P, same E/I
    people with same J/P are easier to deal with and with other E/I are more pleasant

    at least, such is about friendship - emotionally close communication, not pals relations
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    duality and mb semiduality should be better
    activation has problems: different J/P, same E/I
    people with same J/P are easier to deal with and with other E/I are more pleasant

    at least, such is about friendship - emotionally close communication, not pals relations
    I completely agree with this, @Sol. Duality and Semi-Duality are much better than Activity, and you explained why.

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    The problem between me and ESI: we don't have enough energy to motivate each other, and we both are not very decisive. And too much Fi angry/cry when they have problem with something and told me about that.

    SEE can push people (me) to do something easily but usually wrong direction, so I have to try to correct them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Duality and Semi-Duality are much better than Activity, and you explained why.
    I'm not sure that semiduality is better, what is pointed by "mb".
    Semiduality has a lack of support for 2nd region and different valued 2 functions. So there are + and - for those IR which are hard to compare with the existing theory and without experimental data.

    Generally, activators are said as 2nd after a duality. By the theory semiduality is among best.
    In my experience I prefered semiduals (existed pretty activators never got my significant feelings). But it's not enough to be assured about common preference and the degree of the difference.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    I'm not sure that semiduality is better, what is pointed by "mb".
    Semiduality has a lack of support for 2nd region and different valued 2 functions. So there are + and - for those IR which are hard to compare with the existing theory and without experimental data.

    Generally, activators are said as 2nd after a duality. By the theory semiduality is among best.
    In my experience I prefered semiduals (existed pretty activators never got my significant feelings). But it's not enough to be assured about common preference and the degree of the difference.
    I, also, preferred Semiduals over Activators for friendship, and Mirage over either for sex, but my Activators are SEEs and we compete with each other for the limelight and that isn't good.

    I do know a female LIE who met a male SEE when she was 17 or so and had two kids by him, but she's really regretting that decision now that she's 36 and he's around for benefits but not around for financial support.

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    I once knew of an sei/lii couple. If experience with my activator is anything to go by, the attraction is intense and they find each other interesting.

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    @Bethany

    Yeah activators... do activate you. The stimulation can be like a 'blinder' for some things I think. IMO the gay male country singer that just came out of the closet- Tj Osborne- is my activity partner haha.

    They don't always activate you sexually but it's a part of it. Sometimes your mind is just really interested and engaged. (I like when female LSIs post on this site lol - cuz it like naturally casts a buff spell on me) You might find them really interesting in the beginning for this reason and I guess it might end up becoming disappointing once the magic & stimulation naturally settles. Activity is still one of the best relations though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I do know a female LIE who met a male SEE when she was 17 or so and had two kids by him, but she's really regretting that decision now that she's 36 and he's around for benefits but not around for financial support.
    For general situation are needed many examples to reduce factors besides Jung types.
    Even duality pairs may go not good.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    @BandD yep, I have a couple of activity work friends and really enjoy talking to them. They just know loads of stuff and tell it in an interesting way. I could compare talking to them to being engaged in a really good novel or tv show. In fact, I remember telling someone about my female LSI colleague, describing her as being ‘like a character in a tv show’ in a good way
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    Yep. ESE's some go crazy around me but I suppose we both like insanity so why not.

    One ESE woman dragged me out to wrestle outside. That probably tells you something and was around every corner I walked by. Lol.
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