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Thread: Explain it to me: Israel vs Palestine

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    Default Explain it to me: Israel vs Palestine



    PS i see "real estate abuse" as obvious bs. but I also see Hamas as a terrorist group, but that they are doesn't justify occupation or abuse of civilians. if ppl in Gaza strip are trapped, that matters. desperate ppl will go to anyone. This idea that certain ppl are inherently bad, like help me, I can imagine if that happened to me...
    Last edited by inumbra; 05-16-2021 at 04:55 AM.

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    It all comes down to how nations and their geopolitical borders are formed. Bitches can claim anything they want. Can they defend and hold it militarily? If yes, it's theirs. If not, it's the property of the other victorious military force. It all comes down to who can hold a given piece of land by force of arms. Either the Jews in Israel can force out the Arabs and/or genocide them into nothingness... or they can't.

    I'd recommend the works of Martin Van Creveld to anyone wondering why Israel hasn't just nuked the West Bank or why they haven't gone full genocide mode. Short version: It's all rather counterproductive amongst other considerations...

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    There's already an agreed upon international solution (via U.N. Security Council resolution 242, which makes it binding): Israel should dismantle its illegal settlements and withdraw to its pre-June 1967 border. Israel is has the ability to create a de facto two-state solution today, and it should act in accordance with the law. If the concern is over Hamas' objections to a two-state solution, those objections are irrelevant (and somewhat overstated by Hamas' critics), as the law applies to any Hamas-led government as well.

    Going forward, this is hardly the most egregious conflict in history — if France and Germany can become best friends, Israelis and Palestinians can certainly find common ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    There's already an agreed upon international solution (via U.N. Security Council resolution 242, which makes it binding): Israel should dismantle its illegal settlements and withdraw to its pre-June 1967 border. Israel is has the ability to create a de facto two-state solution today, and it should act in accordance with the law. If the concern is over Hamas' objections to a two-state solution, those objections are irrelevant (and somewhat overstated by Hamas' critics), as the law applies to any Hamas-led government as well.

    Going forward, this is hardly the most egregious conflict in history — if France and Germany can become best friends, Israelis and Palestinians can certainly find common ground.
    Forget about Hamas. They deliberately target civilians. Fatah is better.

    Hamas uses "civilians" without uniform to fight, including children, and uses "civilian" buildings to hide tunnels etc. used to target Israeli civilians, all contrary to Geneva conventions.

    On Saturday afternoon, an Israeli air strike destroyed a high-rise building housing media organisations, including The Associated Press and Al-Jazeera, plus a number of offices and apartments.

    In a statement released shortly afterwards, the Israeli military said the building housed military assets belonging to Hamas, the Palestinian militant group that rules Gaza. The building's landlord has denied this.

    The Associated Press (AP) said the block was hit roughly an hour after Israeli forces ordered people to evacuate.

    The news organisation's CEO, Gary Pruitt, said: "This is an incredibly disturbing development. We narrowly avoided a terrible loss of life. A dozen AP journalists and freelancers were inside the building and thankfully we were able to evacuate them in time."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-57125479

    From 2014:

    The Palestinian Authority's envoy to the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) has said the PA has no hope of pressing charges against Israel in international courts - because Palestinian terrorist groups are far worse violators of international law themselves.

    Since peace talks between Israel and the Palestinian Authority fell apart after the PA applied for membership in international agencies, many Palestinian factions and advocates have pushed for the PA to sign the Rome Statute and press charges against Israel in the International Criminal Court at the Hague (ICC).

    But contrasting Israel's conduct during Operation Protective Edge to stop rocket fire from Gaza - in which Israeli forces always warn civilians before launching airstrikes - to the actions of Hamas and other armed groups, Ibrahim Khreisheh said any such move would surely backfire.
    https://www.israelnationalnews.com/N...ws.aspx/182837

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Forget about Hamas. They deliberately target civilians. Fatah is better.

    Hamas uses "civilians" without uniform to fight, including children, and uses "civilian" buildings to hide tunnels etc. used to target Israeli civilians, all contrary to Geneva conventions.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-57125479

    From 2014:

    https://www.israelnationalnews.com/N...ws.aspx/182837
    As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), UNESCO resolution 242 applies to Israel irrespective of the actions of Palestinians, which means that Israel currently has the obligation to move its forces (and its settlers) back to Israel proper. If, as a consequence, Hamas doesn't get their solution of evicting all Israelis, they're free to yell into the void.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), UNESCO resolution 242 applies to Israel irrespective of the actions of Palestinians, which means that Israel currently has the obligation to move its forces (and its settlers) back to Israel proper, and the obligation to impose a two-state solution. If, as a consequence, Hamas doesn't get their solution of evicting all Israelis, they're free to yell into the void.
    Oh, I agree with you completely regarding your comments on Israel in your first post in this thread. The illegal annexation and settlement of Palestine is highly cynical and in bad faith - it shows no desire to bring about peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis and of course it makes changes that are increasingly difficult to reverse peacefully.

    They should also remove the blockade on the Gaza Strip even if it will increase Hamas' attacks on civilians in the short term. That blockade is impoverishing the Palestinians further and will only increase resentment and support for Hamas.

    I think the UN should just officially recognise Palestine as a sovereign state - it seems the USA etc. won't back such a motion because they object to Hamas' attacks. But there are many countries that the USA etc. considers objectionable that are recognised as states.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Oh, I agree with you completely regarding your comments on Israel in your first post in this thread. The illegal annexation and settlement of Palestine is highly cynical and in bad faith - it shows no desire to bring about peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis and of course it makes changes that are increasingly difficult to reverse peacefully.

    They should also remove the blockade on the Gaza Strip even if it will increase Hamas' attacks on civilians in the short term. That blockade is impoverishing the Palestinians further and will only increase resentment and support for Hamas.

    I think the UN should just officially recognise Palestine as a sovereign state - it seems the USA etc. won't back such a motion because they object to Hamas' attacks. But there are many countries that the USA etc. considers objectionable that are recognised as states.
    I think that we're mostly in agreement then.

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    The US values its relationship with Israel highly and I think that's why it won't ever seem to acknowledge the suffering of the Palestinians.

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    During its 2006 invasion of Lebanon, the Israeli army was turned back by Hezbollah. It couldn't make it as far as the Litani river for a photo-op, and there were even online videos of Israeli soldiers crying while under fire from Hezbollah troops, some of which were teenagers. Those teenagers are thirty year old battle-hardened commanders now.

    By contrast, during its 1982 invasion, there was almost no resistance to Israel.

    Hezbollah has gained even more experience, by playing a decisive role in defeating ISIS in Syria. Russian generals probably sat down with Hezbollah's leadership, probably discussed tactics and strategy, and probably gave them an account of the Russian tactics used to establish control over Grozny.

    Hezbollah isn't Palestinian, but the take-home message is that Israel's enemies have gained in sophistication. Old stereotypes about Arab incompetence are less credible today, and Israel is going to have to learn to compromise at some point. The alternative could go very badly for it.
    Last edited by xerx; 05-17-2021 at 05:40 AM. Reason: fixed typo

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    Explain to me:the US vs native americans

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    Explain to me:the US vs native americans
    Are you talking about the Indian Casinos? I've seen a few of them, but never went inside. The local Americans seem to be of the opinion that the casinos are native american's revenge for something.

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    I'm reading a very interesting book right now which speculates on the kind of world we would have if all forms of coercive force were ended. It is science fiction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm reading a very interesting book right now which speculates on the kind of world we would have if all forms of coercive force were ended. It is science fiction.
    Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    This is a fact that ought to be known by any good "conspiracy theorist" as it were. "Oh It's the illuminati and they're a monolithic evil force!" No, no they're not. All members may have the same end goals yes, but, when it comes to the question of who will rule the world as the ultimate slave master of all of humanity and potentially the galaxy itself, well, the Highlanders put it best: THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

    Naturally, the kiddy diddling Satan worshiping sociopaths who comprise the top ranking members of that group all conclude that they, and they alone, are the one who ought to rule by infernal right. Some have way more power, influence, resources, etc. than the others and thus stand a greater chance of actually attaining that throne (and thus command a "faction" or two within it as it were), but make no mistake all their supposed loyal underlings are just like them. Hence, that clusterfuck you posted. It gets akin to a fractal graph if we could only know the full extent of who was all involved, but be sure of one thing. Even the lowliest peon who is in "the big club" has a plan to end up as the head honcho of the universe and is acting upon it and it scales both up and down rather infinitely in a mathematical sense.

    Their hubris is and will be their undoing. As it was the object of their worship...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm reading a very interesting book right now which speculates on the kind of world we would have if all forms of coercive force were ended. It is science fiction.
    Benjamin Franklin put it best: "Those who pound their swords into ploughshares will end up plowing for those who kept their swords."

    It's a nice utopian thought experiment, but no sane person believes it will ever happen nor even attempt to advocate for it unless they intended to keep the last remaining sword for themselves so to speak. Same concept applies to nuclear disarmament. I watched a video where the dude actually advocated for people to demand their governments disarm their nuclear stockpiles. Yeah, great idea, save for the fact that the last nation to do that will simply not do so, turn their enemies/detractors into glowing craters, and in so doing cow the rest of the world into submission and chattel slavery in service to their new "gods" (for that is what the "correct" historical record will refer to them as).

    I'd like to live in that world, but I know it's impossible for it to exist. Anyone saying it's possible is gunning to become akin to a god sadistically ruling over us all. Fuck em' in all the worst ways as they hopefully gain the attention of the business end of some form of heavy ordinance.

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    There isn't much to explain, Israel wants to have more land, others don't want to give it up, so war
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    and probably gave them an account of the Russian tactics used to establish control over Grozny
    Russians did not took stable control in Chechnya. They made a "trade" with some of existing leaders there. As alternative would be to make massive cleaning during civil war there, what today weakened by liberals Russia have no resources for (general resources, not military - just to kill/remove/prison anyone "bad" was possible).

    > Israel is going to have to learn to compromise at some point

    Israel is going to be used as a land for future big war. The main enemy of Israel is "friendly" USA and international capitals, but not Arabs. Israel has no choice, as this "friend" is the main its military force.

    and
    Last edited by Sol; 05-18-2021 at 04:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I'm reading a very interesting book right now which speculates on the kind of world we would have if all forms of coercive force were ended. It is science fiction.
    What's it called? is it good?

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    Israel is holy, protected, held inside of God's charitable and feeling hands. For this bond to break, this tie to be severed, this string to be cut shows that Prophecy may line up to a certain point, if only to maintain its believability, until the moment of truth comes, and all previous patterns break down in a total collapse and tragedy.

    The Judaism plays with what they call sephirots on a kabbalah tree, including qualities such as wisdom, will, splendor, foundation, kingship, understanding, hell, I can't remember them all, but there's at least 10 of them.

    But then again, that could be the dream, to control, rob, flank, and penetrate reality until the imaginative canvas invokes the apocalypse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    What's it called? is it good?
    @chocolatte, the book's title is Rejoice, a Knife to the Heart, by Steven Erikson. I'm a third of the way through it and the premise is extremely interesting, but it's not a book I can't put down.

    I think that Erikson looks like he's an ESI, but his voice sounds almost exactly like what my voice sounds like on recordings I've heard. http://archeddoorway.com/2014/04/10/...teven-erikson/

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    They are all the same people who refuse to accept each other
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