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Thread: Why donít people like Gulenko?

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    I find his website curious to browse. There does not seem to be a list of every published article - as it is I must scroll to the bottom of an article to be presented with three more intriguing titles

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    what makes people listen to one person over another person? Let’s ask ourselves that.

    And why would a certain group of people listen to a specific person, while some wouldn’t?

    there are always differences when it comes to these things, push and pull fighting against each other, different ideas. Is it faster progression when everything is cohesive and going forward, or is it better, built on a better foundation, when it’s slowly going forward with this push and pull. disagreeing with gulenko is a necessary and natural function of society to keep everything in check from radicalization.

    it’s possible gulenko is a little more right than most, but not all the way right
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    What do you guys think of his type descriptions? I think they're overall good, but I'm not sure about how good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    What do you guys think of his type descriptions? I think they're overall good, but I'm not sure about how good.
    Good. Descriptions have some traps like extinguishing types may seem very much alike until you know more.
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    From the beginning I liked Gulenko and Reinin, disliked Stratievskaya, was neutral towards Filatova, and saw Beskova and Talanov as interesting side characters. When I think of socionics, Gulenko's ideas are often the first to come to mind. They have been so much more accessible and coherent and always interesting. (And I've mixed and matched who I used and referenced over the years)

    Anyway, on his website he talks about type images, and how different schools have very different ideas of types. Picture what comes to mind when you hear "Analyst" how that forms an image of a kind of person, and it's nothing like a revolutionary leader like "Robespierre." This makes it so each school is really using a different system, even if sometimes they have things in common.

    It makes sense to find a school whose approach you like and can use and stick with that one. And part of why there's so much disagreement and arguing here is because this is a melting pot of schools where even MBTI gets mixed in. All of the various schools have pros and cons, and every person is fallible, but I like Gulenko's system and think it has the best chance of being actually useful. He's also doing the most as far as reaching out to the English speaking world which helps with accessibility a ton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    What do you guys think of his type descriptions? I think they're overall good, but I'm not sure about how good.
    The way I understand socionics is that it's an information metabolism thing, therefore invisible. Since type descriptions are about observed behavior a lot of the time, I think it's wise to take them with a grain of salt. Also, to remember an ESE doesn't look the same to an LIE and an LII. And that that an ESE from Canada won't act the same way as an ESE from China. In Canada, the ESE will be encouraged to be demonstrative and friendly because of culture, China has a more introverted, intuitive, and dutifull kind of culture, so that makes more reseved ESE.
    I'm gonna skip the personal life part, it plays a huge role too but requires time and trust.
    Overall, there's so many things to consider, it's a nightmare.

    The best attitude imo is keeping an open mind and not fret too much about it, no one is gonna die from a mistype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    What do you guys think of his type descriptions? I think they're overall good, but I'm not sure about how good.
    I've been reading the ones on his website which I really like. I find them to be useful and accurate. He says a lot in a few lines. Sometimes they make me burst into laughter at their accuracy. e.g SEI-C 'Having splashed out in an emotional outburst, he sleeps in a secluded place'. (spashed out, the poetry!) LSI-C 'Has the qualities of a lifeguard'. Haha. LSI-H 'Choosing food. Drinks a lot of fluids'. This is my brother, always a big glass in his hand. I wish I spoke Russain lol, the language sounds fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i like gulenko's theories, i just don't put a halo over them or believe in the One True Socionist. but generally dcnh is pretty central to how i think about socionics these days.

    also i wouldn't be surprised if most socionists battle type one another...
    Is gulenko the inventor of dcnh?
    I don't feel inclined to understand the nuts and bolts behind a new theory (just because I buy an analysis, like that's a measure of how legitimate I think it is haha) and gulenko's entire system is too much effort, but I feel soft about this dcnh thing. At face value it's so intuitive and similar to those 4-type basics that have been around since forever. But I wonder if actually understanding it would ruin it lol. If gulenko invented it he gets Fi points from me though. (He already had some because I found him not unpleasant to work with when I did videos,considering the language barrier and currency conversion confusion and stuff . FYI @ this thread)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    Is gulenko the inventor of dcnh?
    I don't feel inclined to understand the nuts and bolts behind a new theory (just because I buy an analysis, like that's a measure of how legitimate I think it is haha) and gulenko's entire system is too much effort, but I feel soft about this dcnh thing. At face value it's so intuitive and similar to those 4-type basics that have been around since forever. But I wonder if actually understanding it would ruin it lol. If gulenko invented it he gets Fi points from me though. (He already had some because I found him not unpleasant to work with when I did videos,considering the language barrier and currency conversion confusion and stuff . FYI @ this thread)
    theories with 4 subtypes are very common. look at DISG for expample. DCNH is similar, but overall more valuable to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    theories with 4 subtypes are very common. look at DISG for expample. DCNH is similar, but overall more valuable to me.
    Ye, like earth, fire, air, water. I appreciate the (is this just a political word?) lindy-ness

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I've been reading the ones on his website which I really like. I find them to be useful and accurate. He says a lot in a few lines. Sometimes they make me burst into laughter at their accuracy. e.g SEI-C 'Having splashed out in an emotional outburst, he sleeps in a secluded place'. (spashed out, the poetry!) LSI-C 'Has the qualities of a lifeguard'. Haha. LSI-H 'Choosing food. Drinks a lot of fluids'. This is my brother, always a big glass in his hand. I wish I spoke Russain lol, the language sounds fun.
    Haha! Yeah, they're amusing. The best descriptions are the ones that paint a colorful story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    What do you guys think of his type descriptions? I think they're overall good, but I'm not sure about how good.
    I think all type descriptions are only for references. To type someone, it's needed to understand the information metabolism at first.

    I think his descriptions are generally good but it is indeed a description and all descriptions are limited. I actually find that Piatnitskiy's descriptions are the most neutral ones although not very informative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    He is actually a space lizard with impenetrable skin brought to you by genius malignant EIE who knows all the truths in the universe.
    Wow, this is Luigi's Mansion!! Alien tentacles and songebob soda pop in the cool winter Mt. Fuji giraffe!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    The way I understand socionics is that it's an information metabolism thing, therefore invisible. Since type descriptions are about observed behavior a lot of the time, I think it's wise to take them with a grain of salt. Also, to remember an ESE doesn't look the same to an LIE and an LII. And that that an ESE from Canada won't act the same way as an ESE from China. In Canada, the ESE will be encouraged to be demonstrative and friendly because of culture, China has a more introverted, intuitive, and dutifull kind of culture, so that makes more reseved ESE.
    I'm gonna skip the personal life part, it plays a huge role too but requires time and trust.
    Overall, there's so many things to consider, it's a nightmare.

    The best attitude imo is keeping an open mind and not fret too much about it, no one is gonna die from a mistype.
    I agree. Although I think Chinese culture nowadays are not as intuitive as the traditional ones.

    Also I think it's important to notice the historical context plays an important role. I don't think that historical figures are necessarily Fe-base types. Such ideology might seem to be Fe nowadays, but it could also be related to Fi in a specific context.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Wow, this is Luigi's Mansion!! Alien tentacles and songebob soda pop in the cool winter Mt. Fuji giraffe!!

    Maybe You are extraverted after all, like you told Me. I'm introverted.
    I think I'd love to be an introvert and have more self contained focus.. but crap I think even based on the feedback I'm not very contained and I have no issues of talking a lot in large groups but intimate settings are much more challenging... feelings and crap. I'm waiting for Gulenko typing.
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    I see very few criticisms of Gulenko from people that understand his work (not to say those people/critiques don't exist, but I have not seen them). I think Gulenko's system is very sturdy and makes a lot of sense. It's one of the most consistent frameworks I've seen in socionics. Learning Model G made everything click for me, and even made Model A easier to understand. A lot of the criticisms I've seen seem to stem from disagreements without a framework to back them up (such as disagreeing with a type, perhaps stemming from different "type images"), disagreements regarding certain results of Gulenko's system (such as the preponderance of Beta typings) which hinge upon assumptions that we really have no way to verify, or disagreements that completely misunderstand socionics/SHS in general.

    For all the commentary on how poor Gulenko's typings are, I wish there were arguments to back these criticisms up that address Gulenko's diagnostics/work. Because of the lack of argumentation, I tend to think that people dislike Gulenko due to his increased popularity (flak is a natural response; popularity comes in both positive and negative forms) and because he steps on preconceived frameworks/conclusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CR400AF View Post
    I agree. Although I think Chinese culture nowadays are not as intuitive as the traditional ones.

    Also I think it's important to notice the historical context plays an important role. I don't think that historical figures are necessarily Fe-base types. Such ideology might seem to be Fe nowadays, but it could also be related to Fi in a specific context.
    I only picked a type and used it under different lightings, didn't mean to say it has anything to do with historical figures nor ideology. No idea how this stuff happened.
    I don't know much about canadian history tbh, and mostly know historical stuff about China.
    I tend to research spiritual stuff, one has next to none and the other, idk, thousands of years of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    I only picked a type and used it under different lightings, didn't mean to say it has anything to do with historical figures nor ideology. No idea how this stuff happened.
    I don't know much about canadian history tbh, and mostly know historical stuff about China.
    I tend to research spiritual stuff, one has next to none and the other, idk, thousands of years of it.
    I am sorry that I didn't make it clear. I commented on the historical context not to comment your post but to note that besides what you dicussed, I think Gulenko might be ignoring this when he typed so many historical figures as EIEs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    I have no issues of talking a lot in large groups but intimate settings are much more challenging... feelings and crap. I'm waiting for Gulenko typing.
    I guess lack of Fi contributes a lot here
    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by CR400AF View Post
    I am sorry that I didn't make it clear. I commented on the historical context not to comment your post but to note that besides what you dicussed, I think Gulenko might be ignoring this when he typed so many historical figures as EIEs.
    Oh, thanks for clarifying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    Is gulenko the inventor of dcnh?
    yes, model G (G for Gulenko)
    I don't feel inclined to understand the nuts and bolts behind a new theory (just because I buy an analysis, like that's a measure of how legitimate I think it is haha) and gulenko's entire system is too much effort, but I feel soft about this dcnh thing. At face value it's so intuitive and similar to those 4-type basics that have been around since forever. But I wonder if actually understanding it would ruin it lol. If gulenko invented it he gets Fi points from me though. (He already had some because I found him not unpleasant to work with when I did videos,considering the language barrier and currency conversion confusion and stuff . FYI @ this thread)
    i basically like things when i see there is truth in them, and dcnh has helped me notice some people of some types who might not conventionally fit into their type, like when i realized i'd been seeing SLIs as only SLI-N or SLI-H generally. I've also noticed my pattern in life of gravitating towards C subs and feeling terrible with N/D.

    i don't think the theory is perfect and think there is some muddling between the subtypes being about one's role in society or one's nature. but concepts don't always tease apart into neat little separate boxes.

    i'm less into the actual english-speaking typings than the theory but i agree with a lot of the typings and really all the socionists are going to get people's types wrong sometimes, and all of this is about trying to see people in perfect categories while reality itself often doesn't abide by human conceptualizations.
    Last edited by inumbra; 05-03-2021 at 03:58 PM.

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    I also see truth in DCNH. It took a while- perhaps you do need to learn how to type fairly well first. Also, I had been focusing a lot on enneagram and thinking about tritype compatibility. I still think tritype comparison has the potential to tell us a lot about compatibility, maybe even more than DCNH. (As explained in another thread by another user). But maybe there are similarities between the two. Anyway thinking about tritype made me really think about the variation within types and similarities across types. It could be a good idea to consider both (or I know people like to use instincts), as well
    as sociotype ITR as that way it’s a few different tools to help you be objective in finding a partner.
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    I like Victor Gulenko fine, but there is a lot of overlap between his classifications. I can see why some people might like his lack of imprecision and his not really going into his sources. AFAIK, he never goes into who he personally examined, he just gives brief descriptions of their behavior, preferences and groups/classified them all together.

    I personally think the older subtype system is easier to deal with because those differences are more physically, behaviorally observable (at least to me). But I don't go by the subtypes' functions being boosted/drained, I go by the vibe I get from each subtype.

    Vera Stratiyevskaya's work was good, but not great because she didn't take subtypes into account and in most of her portraits she paints VERY unhealthy or unskilled in some ways of the types and there are a lot of things she's inaccurate about because of differences between LSI-Se and LSI-Ti, for example. The LSI-Se doesn't have deficits in intuition or Ti systemization ability to the point where they can't exist or imagine themselves outside of a pre-existing system... it's still often hard for most LSI-Se to be outside of a pre-existing system and they don't often create their own, but some like doing it and some do it... the Sensory subtype is often quite individualistic and not very hierarchical like the Ti subtype. One thing she gets right, though, is LSI tend to be pretty irritable (both subtypes have a harder time laughing off their own or others' mistakes compared to ESI-Se), but the Ti sub seems moreso; I've dealt with the Se subtype a lot more. I prefer the Se subtype, they're a lot more beuatiful in appearance, dynamic, and more natural in social interaction, they have great social skills really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Why don’t people like Gulenko/ DCNH? I’ve only just started reading stuff on his website. It seems quite accessible/ progressive? Am I imagining it that people on here don’t seem to like him much?
    Ppl on here type by stereotypes and VI, because typing by noticing information element usage is difficult. This makes casual typing a waste of time imo as the likelihood of getting it wrong is very high.
    DCNH also muddles the waters a lot, because the 4 subtypes all behave superficially like temperaments:

    EP temperament (Flexible-maneuvering) <= is kinda like C
    EJ temperament (Linear-assertive) <= is kinda like D
    IP temperament (Receptive-adaptive) <= is kinda like H
    IJ temperament (Balanced-stable) <= is kinda like N

    So what you think may be SLI can be LSI-H or SLE can be in actuality EIE-N or D.

    personally tbh as someone who is transitioning from H to C... I noticed that especially N types, but also D types and I don't get along. Even if its my dual or identical and she is N or D.. I find her extremely annoying (personal experience). OR it could be just that in my case I react badly if ppl try to control me and I need to feel like I'm in control of my own situation.

    I have also seen 2 ppl who thought themselves to be SLE get typed EIE for example.. while other ppl who thought themselves were SLE (Northsar and Viktor for example) turned out to be SLE.
    Last edited by SGF; 05-04-2021 at 05:32 AM. Reason: typos

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    I hate that he won’t respond to my emails. I just want to be typed. Gulenko will you pls take my money godammit.

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    just leave it here

    it's about how to relax
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Thanks for all your responses, it’s much appreciated. Discovering socionics is not easy for everyone and it’s really useful to see some of the approaches broken down in this thread. Can’t wait to watch that vid lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGF View Post
    Ppl on here type by stereotypes and VI, because typing by noticing information element usage is difficult. This makes casual typing a waste of time imo as the likelihood of getting it wrong is very high.
    I am guilty of doing this, but not because I think that typing by stereotypes and VI is the best method. I actually think that it yields correct results only about half the time, and typing by more formal informational methods gives better results.

    When I first arrived at this forum, no one liked or believed in VI methods, and I was pretty terrible at being able to discern peopleís correct types. I might be slightly better at this now, but I still suck at it.

    The whole reason I first started to type by VI was that my purpose in learning Socionics was to be able to identify Duals for dating, and the largest source of Duals are online dating services, where you only get a few pictures of a person along with some very ambiguous notes from their life that they think are important. You canít really give each of the one or two hundred people you might see in a dating site a Socionics test, so you have to fall back on stereotypes and VI, then text them and date them for a while to get more information.

    I use VI, but I have sometimes been very surprised when someone whom I thought was one type eventually turned out to be a different type. In other words, my typing method, while quick and generally applicable, is not perfect because it misses certain pieces of information.

    But Iíd like to point out that every method of typing that Iím aware of will miss some information and will therefore make some mistypes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I am guilty of doing this, but not because I think that typing by stereotypes and VI is the best method. I actually think that it yields correct results only about half the time, and typing by more formal informational methods gives better results.

    When I first arrived at this forum, no one liked or believed in VI methods, and I was pretty terrible at being able to discern people’s correct types. I might be slightly better at this now, but I still suck at it.

    The whole reason I first started to type by VI was that my purpose in learning Socionics was to be able to identify Duals for dating, and the largest source of Duals are online dating services, where you only get a few pictures of a person along with some very ambiguous notes from their life that they think are important. You can’t really give each of the one or two hundred people you might see in a dating site a Socionics test, so you have to fall back on stereotypes and VI, then text them and date them for a while to get more information.

    I use VI, but I have sometimes been very surprised when someone whom I thought was one type eventually turned out to be a different type. In other words, my typing method, while quick and generally applicable, is not perfect because it misses certain pieces of information.

    But I’d like to point out that every method of typing that I’m aware of will miss some information and will therefore make some mistypes.
    Imo EP types which are C, IJ types which are N, EJ types which are D and IP types which are H.. can easily be spotted due to being stereotypical. Other than that with the introduction of DCNH, it gets confusing. It is especially easy to confuse one's conflictor for one's dual as they are quasi-identicals. Its kinda dangerous tbh, I prefer to just go by instinct and watch for red flags when it comes to women. Plus she'd have to chose me :/ aka I'd have to be her first option for me to even give the relationship a shot, but thats just me. I don't rely on ITR, my reason for getting typed had to do with trying to figure out what to do with life, not relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGF View Post
    Imo EP types which are C, IJ types which are N, EJ types which are D and IP types which are H.. can easily be spotted due to being stereotypical. Other than that with the introduction of DCNH, it gets confusing. It is especially easy to confuse one's conflictor for one's dual as they are quasi-identicals.
    Except I believe that DCNH is unreliable. It might be definitive but I don’t see it as constant.

    And yes, it can be difficult to tell Duals from Conflictors sometimes. I find that it becomes 100% clear, though, after spending about ten minutes with a person.

    Duals give me an impression of no conflict at all, while I will be going along with Conflictors, curious about them and hoping for the best with all my senses focused on them, and BAM a sudden punch to the teeth and where did that come from?

    Duals can also produce shocks initially but they are mild and are easily overcome by my general admiration of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Except I believe that DCNH is unreliable. It might be definitive but I don’t see it as constant.

    And yes, it can be difficult to tell Duals from Conflictors sometimes. I find that it becomes 100% clear, though, after spending about ten minutes with a person.

    Duals give me an impression of no conflict at all, while I will be going along with Conflictors, curious about them and hoping for the best with all my senses focused on them, and BAM a sudden punch to the teeth and where did that come from?

    Duals can also produce shocks initially but they are mild and are easily overcome by my general admiration of them.
    Doesn't it depend on the individual dual, though? There are some LSIs that I seem to like on instinct while others I want to figuratively punch. It seems 50/50 to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE View Post
    Doesn't it depend on the individual dual, though? There are some LSIs that I seem to like on instinct while others I want ro figuratively punch.

    I've found that my Duals range from a low of "This is an OK person; I like them but I don't have to get to know them better"- a woman at work is like this, to "OK, I need to get closer to this person and I'm not giving them up."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I've found that my Duals range from a low of "This is an OK person; I like them but I don't have to get to know them better"- a woman at work is like this, to "OK, I need to get closer to this person and I'm not giving them up."
    That sounds sweet. Mine range from " this person is certifiably insane" to "whoa, this person is so dang quirky charming... I can't stand it. "
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    I hate that he won’t respond to my emails. I just want to be typed. Gulenko will you pls take my money godammit.
    What email addressing are you sending it to?

    Btw, just in case you might not know or are using the wrong email address, here is all the information you need: https://socioniks.net/article/?id=273

    Use the "contact us" link at the bottom of the article to contact them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    I hate that he won’t respond to my emails. I just want to be typed. Gulenko will you pls take my money godammit.
    Same. How many days peeps?
    Does he already have enough money to travel and move dark side of the moon to meet his semi dual mr H*tler?
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    Anastasia is the one who responds to emails, and whenever I sent her one, she responded very quickly. I initially sent in my video and asked her if it was ok for typing purposes and she said, yes, and only after that did I send the payment (but the transaction part can take a while, depends).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    What email addressing are you sending it to?

    Btw, just in case you might not know or are using the wrong email address, here is all the information you need: https://socioniks.net/article/?id=273

    Use the "contact us" link at the bottom of the article to contact them.
    That’s how I contacted him. I didn’t send a video upfront tho.

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    That’s really weird they aren’t responding like that... I noticed they haven’t added any English speaking typing videos lately.
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    It is weird.

    I know they give classes and such and perhaps Gulenko has alot going on but I don't see why Anastasia isn't responding to emails at all.
    What good is a book that does not even transport us beyond all books?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    Same. How many days peeps?
    Does he already have enough money to travel and move dark side of the moon to meet his semi dual mr H*tler?
    Wait a minute. Are you saying that there are Nazi's on the dark side of the moon?


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