Erotic attitudes

[Stray Cat]

Being SLE I got a pretty good grasp on the aggressor role. I get the Careful & Victim from dating experience. The Infantile is a mystery. Never dated one, honestly. If anybody has personal experience with the Infantile or is an Infantile it would be awesome to hear.

Not saying one attitude is better than any other, btw

[14Raptor19]

Erotic is a good word, like the incoming prototype of new design or secrets of the blue wave portal grabbing and bugging you to let it all hang out at the ultimate level with no restrictions!!

[AttackHelicopter]

Yeah that one gave me ILE vibes

[CR400AF]

I'm infantile but I have no erotic experiences. Personally I am mostly interested in the intellectual spheres such that I value intellectual communications as the most important aspects of the relationship. When I am at dates, I tend to provide a set of possibilities instead of decide on my own.

[myresearch]

Being SLE I got a pretty good grasp on the aggressor role. I get the Careful & Victim from dating experience. The Infantile is a mystery. Never dated one, honestly. If anybody has personal experience with the Infantile or is an Infantile it would be awesome to hear.

Not saying one attitude is better than any other, btw

How are you in relationships? I only got victim dating experience.

[ashlesha]

I went on a few dates with an eii and it didn't really mesh, he was nice and aimed to please I guess? I don't remember exactly how infantile was supposed to actually work lol. But I remember feeling like ho hum it isn't moving much better poke it with a stick. And I would playfully suggest uh,,I won't tmi but slightly disgusting things. Not because I really wanted them but because I thought he was holding a stiff frame. I wonder if that's why he suddenly broke it off lol

[chriscorey]

When I first sleep with someone I'm sort of intuitively playing into their hunger, but I'm really super analyzing the situation; especially if it's new. "Wow, this is different, cool, how can I play into this better?"

If I've been with the guy for a while I'm always wanting to try new things... My SLI ex was always satisfied. I, however, got irritated a bit. I wanted to know his ideas. We were always doing what I wanted to do.

I'd say "Dude, what do you like?" and he'd say "Uhhhh, what you like"

I had really great sexual chemistry with an SLE. Seemed like he was always trying to match me and I liked it.

[myresearch]

When I first sleep with someone I'm sort of intuitively playing into their hunger

Can you elaborate?

but I'm really super analyzing the situation; especially if it's new. "Wow, this is different, cool, how can I play into this better?"

I think bolded part is Ti.

[chriscorey]

Can you elaborate?





I think bolded part is Ti.

I may bite if I think that's what they'd like, I'm usually right. *blushes* That's just one example ...

[Stray Cat]

How are you in relationships? I only got victim dating experience.

As an SLE, territorial dominance is an apt description. No chains, no tying up or toys. I'm aggressively confident & confirm it physically. If she, if in any way, decides she's out I'll leave a path wider than the Pacific Ocean for her to jet.

From a relational perspective, I'm confident. If I'm unsure about something I become competent in that aspect before the date starts.

[ashlesha]

I'm not that confident. But even when I've been aggressively lacking in confidence, in general, I've been stubborn about being in charge in my dating life. In spite of myself, believe me!! In conjunction with being female and finding conventional dating impossible for the way I'm set up. Got a crap hand lol. I don't know why I gotta be the queen. Annoying af

[Adam Strange]

I'm not that confident. But even when I've been aggressively lacking in confidence, in general, I've been stubborn about being in charge in my dating life. In spite of myself, believe me!! In conjunction with being female and finding conventional dating impossible for the way I'm set up. Got a crap hand lol. I don't know why I gotta be the queen. Annoying af

I've had conversations with female ESIs about sex. They really do seem to be like dogs raised by ducks in this area.

Yes, they want to be in charge. But they've been told all their lives that they should be passive. Lol.

For some reason, the LSIs that I've slept with don't have this problem. While both types are Aggressors, the ESIs have integrated femininity into their characters and the LSIs are genuinely afraid that they are men. But being a man means that they know what they want and so they go for it. ESIs might know what they want, but they have been told that ladies don't act that way and they believe it. This seems to generate a huge amount of sexual complexes in them, judging by the ones I've met.

In my experience, there are some women who can orgasm strictly from vaginal penetration, but I think they are in the minority. Most women need a helping hand, or tongue, or toy, whatever, to get off. But for whatever reason, the ESIs that I've known don't expect that from men.

I've talked to three ESIs about sex. One is a lesbian who seems amenable to having sex with a man, if he was the "right" guy......a slightly passive guy, that is. I once stood a bit inside her space when she and I were alone in her studio, just to see what she would do, because you can bet that I want to merge with this babe, and she told me "Back up, Bub." No Aggressors for her. Anything that she gets has to be on her terms, and at the same time, while she certainly likes me, she just doesn't know how to close the distance herself with me. She once tried, and her approach was so clumsy and off-putting that I just ignored it and kept talking to her about art commissions.
Maybe I represent a long decision and she just wants easy right now, IDK. In the meantime, she's banging away with a fellow female (an Identical, actually), and I'm sure that they are giving each other what they want.

A second ESI told me that the guys she's gone out with made her feel bad about her sexuality, because they told her that she should be satisfied by their penises alone. (Full disclosure: Some guys are clueless, some guys are selfish, and some guys are total shitheads.) She revealed in a defiant and challenging voice that she needed either manual or oral stimulation. I said, "So? That's pretty normal in my book." But she still wasn't amenable to having sex with me. (Goddam. What else could she want? I'm fucking perfect in every way. Can't she see this? - Lol.)

A third ESI told me, during a date where we were getting to know each other to see if we wanted to get to know each other, that she wanted to see my porn collection. Lol. Aggressors. At least she was interested. I told her that that was probably not going to happen.
I think I come across as a very male guy in real life. It isn't what I'm consciously trying for, but it seems to be the impression I give to women. I test as 100% male and 100% extroverted and one of the LSIs claimed that I was an Aggressor, so this ESI was looking at me and she said "You don't do oral, do you?" She seemed to be resigned to hearing the "No" answer that she expected.
"Of course I do. Why? Do you like that?"
"Oh, yes!"
"Can you get off that way?"
"Oh, YES!"
"Well, let's try that."
"No."
"Waiter! The check, please."

Lol. I didn't actually say that last line. I just included it because it was funny.

In any case, with every one of these women (the ESI flavor of Aggressor), they want what they want, but they don't expect to either get it or to be able to rightfully ask for it.

Of course, this is only from three samples, and your own mileage may vary.

[Rebelondeck]

@Adam Strange, I thought that female ESIs simply preferred to masturbate; they only need to borrow male parts every now and then - but they do give back control immediately after they've finished using them.

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange, I thought that female ESIs simply preferred to masturbate; they only need to borrow male parts every now and then - but they do give back control immediately after they've finished using them.

a.k.a. I/O

@Rebelondeck, I had sex with an ESI when I was about 26, and that's close to how it went. We had fun. The LSI's were more give-and-take, but still similar in many ways. One LSI told me "I want to use you for a few minutes" and climbed on top. Lol.

In contrast, the SLI was on Planet Caregiver. You need dinner? It's there. You need clean clothes and your socks folded? She's on it. You're in the car on a vacation to Disneyland and your nose starts running? She has Kleenex and anti-histamines in her purse. Plus a pen and notebook to make a note to buy more.
It's good if you're an Infantile and you like that sort of thing.

God, why didn't someone tell me about Erotic Attitudes before I got married?

[Stray Cat]

apparently this is an image from gulenko's website for Delta rational duality:



I think it portrays well enough the 'infantile' aspect of it.

Does he have an image representing the Alpha dualities, as well? If so is there a link or a way to have the image posted in this thread?

[The Reality Denialist]

yeah @BrightDemonSheep96 knows where the links are

I'm not sure where to find them. website is socioniks.net

Yeah. Those photos are not directly accessible - hidden in cards that relate to article ids.

Alpha irrational

Alpha rational

Beta irrational

Beta rational

Gamma irrational

Gamma rational

Delta irrational

Delta rational

[The Reality Denialist]

Beta - the girl doesn't look too happy to be photographed

Yup. No valued Si. It is about the performance that is important.

Alpha - I am having trouble understanding the 'infantile/caregiver' dynamic at play. Baby shoes? It gives more of a sense of them both 'parenting' something or someone.

In case of LII's I wouldn't be very surprised if ESE's and LII's could have large families if they are economically on good enough grounds. I have seen this. This pair could consist of a doctor and person in analytical type of job.

Also for the Beta irrational, is the girl IEI or SLE?

SLE's might become bit confused and they look for private guidance. I have seen this.

[chriscorey]

Am I to believe he was only referring to one qaudra?

[Stray Cat]

Yeah. Those photos are not directly accessible - hidden in cards that relate to article ids.

Alpha irrational

Alpha rational

Beta irrational

Beta rational

Gamma irrational

Gamma rational

Delta irrational

Delta rational

Thanks. Awesome stuff

[Stray Cat]

SLE's might become bit confused and they look for private guidance. I have seen this.

As an SLE, I can be like a bull in a china shop. IEI tend to be well fit for directing our energies into something worthwhile. Getting on one knee is a bit of an exaggeration. We're pretty good BS detectors

[Adam Strange]

Yeah. Those photos are not directly accessible - hidden in cards that relate to article ids.

Alpha irrational

Alpha rational

Beta irrational

Beta rational

Gamma irrational

Gamma rational

Delta irrational

Delta rational

I can see the reasoning behind every image, but why did Gulenko choose pictures of infants to represent each Dual pair, with the notable exception of the EIE-LSI couple?

Oh, wait. The SLI-IEE couple are also adults. Maybe this is a normal view of Alpha Infantiles?

[Adam Strange]

As an SLE, I can be like a bull in a china shop. IEI tend to be well fit for directing our energies into something worthwhile. Getting on one knee is a bit of an exaggeration. We're pretty good BS detectors

@Stray Cat, I think that picture is mislabeled, and if it isn't, it still is. The guy on one knee is LSI and the woman in the red dress is EIE. They are clearly committed to the rules of their society.
It's more likely that an IEI would be taking pictures. My IEI cousin does, constantly. And the SLE would be the girl showing off in her red dress.

[Aster]

Yeah I can’t see an SLE bending down on a knee like that

I think what the picture is trying to portray is a knight/princess type image. Something like this seems to me like a better portrayal

[Adam Strange]

Yeah I can’t see an SLE bending down on a knee like that

I think what the picture is trying to portray is a knight/princess type image. Something like this seems to me like a better portrayal

I've seen Knight-Princess pictures as being more representative of LIE-ESI Duality, but this description could relate to either of the two moderate Victim-Aggressor and Ni/Se couples.

I can also see the reasoning behind the LIE-ESI picture. The LIE as a visionary explorer, and the ESI as his constant support. Both aspects of the relationship (knight-princess and visionary-moralizer) are true.

The LSE-EII picture is funny (because it's true). The LSE in his khakis and the EII on tiptoes in her graceful slippers. She says "C'mon, big boy." He says "Huh?"

[The Reality Denialist]

Yeah I can’t see an SLE bending down on a knee like that

I think what the picture is trying to portray is a knight/princess type image. Something like this seems to me like a better portrayal

It is a metaphorical representation.... also based on what I have seen even on this forum He begs for fate and IEI gives them trust. EJ Arendee...

[Aster]

It is a metaphorical representation.... also based on what I have seen even on this forum He begs for fate and IEI gives them trust. EJ Arendee...

Well, that is true I do see what you mean

When I looked at it, there just seemed some kind of wrongness about it, but maybe that’s just me being weird

[Adam Strange]

Well, that is true I do see what you mean

When I looked at it, there just seemed some kind of wrongness about it, but maybe that’s just me being weird

Let's see. Stray Cat says it's unlikely, I say it's mislabeled, BrightDemonSheep96 says it is merely a metaphor, and you say it's wrong.

That's because you're right, and its wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG. Lol.

[Aster]

Let's see. Stray Cat says it's unlikely, I say it's mislabeled, BrightDemonSheep96 says it is merely a metaphor, and you say it's wrong.

That's because you're right, and its wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG. Lol.

lol

well I don’t think it’s exactly wrong per se. Just that there seems a wrongness about it, an imbalance? I see what @BrightDemonSheep96 is getting at, but the thing about it is it’s compromising the power dynamics of beta in the picture, which IMO makes it seem imbalanced. there could have been a better way to portray it, probably, without compromising that, especially in such a exaggerated way imo. But that’s me nitpicking I’m finding it hard to explain...

[The Reality Denialist]

Well, that is true I do see what you mean

When I looked at it, there just seemed some kind of wrongness about it, but maybe that’s just me being weird

Ne metaphors can be hard be hard for betas/gammas but I just thought that it is Ne weirdness. When the LSI biology teacher listened my metaphorical slips... he was just "What are you talking about, dude? And I was like "I'm just using my expressive freedoms here.... dude".

[qaz00]

Relationships with aggressors are like when you're on a diet and someone is encouraging you to eat something unhealthy. It's fine in moderate amounts but not what I'd like long-term. They're easy to understand and discussions flow well, but something about their goals, interests and how they treat people seems wrong to me. Too direct, stubborn, risky, they often fail to see how others may react to their actions and their morality seems egoistic to me.

Caregivers are fine as friends but quite boring. When they try to help me it's annoying because it's often about something I can do and have my way of doing it.

Victims seem confusing from a distance, they talk a lot about things I don't care about. I don't have much experience with them.

Infantile types are interesting but also the most difficult. I appreciate their point of view but they're hard to understand, I usually need some time to digest their thoughts. I also think they feel comfortable in similar situations and places I feel comfortable in, it's just hard to connect with them.

I can't say much about the literal erotic part but I'm definitely attracted to cuteness, things considered sexy seem weird to me.

[Dr PissBender]

Relationships with aggressors are like when you're on a diet and someone is encouraging you to eat something unhealthy. It's fine in moderate amounts but not what I'd like long-term. They're easy to understand and discussions flow well, but something about their goals, interests and how they treat people seems wrong to me. Too direct, stubborn, risky, they often fail to see how others may react to their actions and their morality seems egoistic to me.

Caregivers are fine as friends but quite boring. When they try to help me it's annoying because it's often about something I can do and have my way of doing it.

Victims seem confusing from a distance, they talk a lot about things I don't care about. I don't have much experience with them.

Infantile types are interesting but also the most difficult. I appreciate their point of view but they're hard to understand, I usually need some time to digest their thoughts. I also think they feel comfortable in similar situations and places I feel comfortable in, it's just hard to connect with them.

I can't say much about the literal erotic part but I'm definitely attracted to cuteness, things considered sexy seem weird to me.

Lol, reminds me of the girl i'm dating, she a Delta ST, and she says that she likes listening to my rambling even though it's hard for her to understand most shit i'm saying, she also gets really turned on by my cuteness which I personally refer to as my "autistic childlike rambling". Aggressors = big gay. Victims = not even real. Acknowledge infantile superiority.

[Tarnished]

Relationships with aggressors are like when you're on a diet and someone is encouraging you to eat something unhealthy. It's fine in moderate amounts but not what I'd like long-term. They're easy to understand and discussions flow well, but something about their goals, interests and how they treat people seems wrong to me. Too direct, stubborn, risky, they often fail to see how others may react to their actions and their morality seems egoistic to me.

Caregivers are fine as friends but quite boring. When they try to help me it's annoying because it's often about something I can do and have my way of doing it.

Victims seem confusing from a distance, they talk a lot about things I don't care about. I don't have much experience with them.

Infantile types are interesting but also the most difficult. I appreciate their point of view but they're hard to understand, I usually need some time to digest their thoughts. I also think they feel comfortable in similar situations and places I feel comfortable in, it's just hard to connect with them.

I can't say much about the literal erotic part but I'm definitely attracted to cuteness, things considered sexy seem weird to me.

"Relationships with aggressors are like when you're on a diet and someone is encouraging you to eat something unhealthy": It's more Se lead. ESI and LSI are not like that, especially LSI, they can give you a ton of advices how to live healthy if you ask them. (yes I know it's a metaphor, not really about eating)

[inaLim]

Let's see. Stray Cat says it's unlikely, I say it's mislabeled, BrightDemonSheep96 says it is merely a metaphor, and you say it's wrong.

That's because you're right, and its wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG. Lol.

I'm guessing the intern got LSI/EIE and IEI/SLE switched.

[The Reality Denialist]

Relationships with aggressors are like when you're on a diet and someone is encouraging you to eat something unhealthy. It's fine in moderate amounts but not what I'd like long-term. They're easy to understand and discussions flow well, but something about their goals, interests and how they treat people seems wrong to me. Too direct, stubborn, risky, they often fail to see how others may react to their actions and their morality seems egoistic to me.

Caregivers are fine as friends but quite boring. When they try to help me it's annoying because it's often about something I can do and have my way of doing it.

Victims seem confusing from a distance, they talk a lot about things I don't care about. I don't have much experience with them.

Infantile types are interesting but also the most difficult. I appreciate their point of view but they're hard to understand, I usually need some time to digest their thoughts. I also think they feel comfortable in similar situations and places I feel comfortable in, it's just hard to connect with them.

I can't say much about the literal erotic part but I'm definitely attracted to cuteness, things considered sexy seem weird to me.

Victim cries a river. -> Aggressor: howt

[The Reality Denialist]

I'm roflmaoling at SLE's reaction to that photo.

SLE thinks... "I'm weak. That is impossible".... runs into his house locks the door and checks no one else is around but his wife and says to his wife "Tell me that I'm a big boi and I can lift a mountain." IEI: "Sure, just believe in yourself and you are invincible" SLE: "Yes, I thought so too."

[Northstar]

SLE do not kneel. Enough said on the subject.

[Stray Cat]

These are metaphorical snapshots based on how Gulenko believes each dual couple theoretically relates to one another.

Gulenko also labeled IEI/EIE as trophies/challengers & SLE/LSI as conquerors which, to some, sounds kinda abusive. Cause of that, more accurate imagery may have been too vulgar for some to handle.
However, Gulenko is NO SLE and his symbolic image is just that: his symbolic image.

Whatever reasons he chose for utilizing that particular image would be best explained by Gulenko himself

[The Reality Denialist]

I have a SLI friend who is a real player, he offers flowers to the girls he nails, but I'd say in general this picture might be more appropriate:



(Attenborough narrator voice) "After years of mindnumbingly boring matrimonial coitus, the SLI male has developped duality with his beer bottle and BBQ tongs. Will this relationship hold? Only the future can tell...."

I see. I wonder how we should approach this issue with ILI's. They surely have developed a cruel struggle between their lack of will power and overwhelming emotions while taking sudden naps between daily critique preachings which usually deal with overall laziness they see in other people.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

when you have "to love" as hidden agenda and Te as creative function but you can't find an IEE like Ethan Klein around that shows you new perspectives so you fall in love with the next best option:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gim3d1qlZog

ILI are more imaginery because of Ni. they build an attraction to anime characters and call them waifu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp0NaAa3eeY

nikola tesla didn't have this option back then, so he chose a pigeon. cats are also very interesting for ILI-

[Adam Strange]

The Erotic Attitudes article on this forum (https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...otic-Attitudes) has been edited several times and is now, in my opinion, less useful that it was when I first encountered it. The older version contained some interesting information about the ongoing interactions of the various romance styles. (https://web.archive.org/web/20120615...otic-Attitudes)

For example, the earlier version said that:


Typical characteristics of the Victim romance style

• prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person
• not always confident about revealing that interest
• inclined to focus on whether or not the other person might reciprocate the interest
• inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time
• preference for partners that provoke in the individual a certain sense of awe in terms of power, physical presence, and the like
• appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
• this takes the form of the individual somewhat expecting the partner to be "mean" on occasion
• in the case of Victim males with female partners, this latter trait assumes a characteristic analogous to a "knight devoted to his princess"
• inclination to openly admit to a relationship having been ended by the partner rather than by the individual himself

This romance style is defined by focus on Ni which is dynamic, irrational, and introverted, with perceptions of inner imagery away from the present physical reality. This means that a Victim sees attraction between two individuals as a dynamic state, which he feels is completely natural. This accounts for a Victim's inclination to focus on the mutual attraction, or particularly the attraction felt by the other person, as to its longer-term perspectives and implications, as well as a certain expectation that the partner will continuously take action to confirm the attraction. Failure on the partner to do so results on the individual assuming that it's already changing. The individual counts on the partner to forcefully bring the individual "down to earth from his thoughts " and focus on the immediate physical reality, continuously.



I mention this because I'm feeling guilty. I've been dating an ESI that I met on Match for a few months, but it isn't at a stage where I feel I'm fully committed to her. In my mind, we are "dating" and are therefore non-exclusive. No promises have been made, no commitments forged. I like her a lot, but I haven't heard from her for a while.

She recently told me that she was going to be busy for the next three weeks and isn't available for dates. I was OK with this for the first week, but now I'm thinking, "What else is out there?" When we were dating every couple weeks and had a firm appointment for our next meeting, I was fine. When I'm left in limbo without any input from her, I tend to wander.

When we first started dating, I stopped looking at my Match account. Well, this morning, I opened it and found that I had 71 "likes" and one of them is from an ESI who lives an hour away. Now the question is, would I be a rat if I went on a date with this other ESI? I stayed married to my ex-wife for years after she moved out, and in retrospect, that wasn't faithfulness on my part, that was stupidity.