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Thread: Erotic attitudes

  1. #41

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    when you have "to love" as hidden agenda and Te as creative function but you can't find an IEE like Ethan Klein around that shows you new perspectives so you fall in love with the next best option:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gim3d1qlZog

    ILI are more imaginery because of Ni. they build an attraction to anime characters and call them waifu.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp0NaAa3eeY

    nikola tesla didn't have this option back then, so he chose a pigeon. cats are also very interesting for ILI-
    Last edited by Alive; 04-27-2021 at 10:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    I see. I wonder how we should approach this issue with ILI's. They surely have developed a cruel struggle between their lack of will power and overwhelming emotions while taking sudden naps between daily critique preachings which usually deal with overall laziness they see in other people.

    The humoristic answer(the one you look for)




    The Strange sex life of freshwater mussels

    To imagine the life of a freshwater mussel living in a southeastern U.S. river, picture a couch potato with a constant buffet line rolling past. But the permanently sedentary lifestyle presents certain obvious problems: It’s kind of hard to hook up with another mussel when you don’t move. When it comes to sex, mussels master long-distance relationships. In fact, no direct contact is required. Male mussels simply eject their semen into the river’s current. A short distance downriver, the female — filtering water, as mussels do — collects the floating semen and fertilizes her eggs. Mission accomplished. Still, they’re not exactly charismatic.

    The more realistic answer(more along of the lines of this thread)





    The latch, by french XVII century painter Fragonard
    (dude is SEE-Se, woman is ILI-Ni)
    I rarely feel alone. I rarely talk to anyone, yet in my head i have the most amazing, the most fantastic discussions with the people in my life. In real life, what most people talk about is several orders of magnitude lesser than their inner experiences. Most people never reveal the singularity of their subjective experience.
    Maybe I should learn to explore other people's consciousness. Maybe I should aim for a real space between me and others. Instead of cultivating monologues and fantasies. It's hard, but the alternative to this seems to be madness. ~ lkdhf qkb

    Life is soup. I'm fork


  3. #43
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    The Erotic Attitudes article on this forum (https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...otic-Attitudes) has been edited several times and is now, in my opinion, less useful that it was when I first encountered it. The older version contained some interesting information about the ongoing interactions of the various romance styles. (https://web.archive.org/web/20120615...otic-Attitudes)

    For example, the earlier version said that:


    Typical characteristics of the Victim romance style

    • prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person
    • not always confident about revealing that interest
    • inclined to focus on whether or not the other person might reciprocate the interest
    • inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time
    • preference for partners that provoke in the individual a certain sense of awe in terms of power, physical presence, and the like
    • appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
    • this takes the form of the individual somewhat expecting the partner to be "mean" on occasion
    • in the case of Victim males with female partners, this latter trait assumes a characteristic analogous to a "knight devoted to his princess"
    • inclination to openly admit to a relationship having been ended by the partner rather than by the individual himself

    This romance style is defined by focus on Ni which is dynamic, irrational, and introverted, with perceptions of inner imagery away from the present physical reality. This means that a Victim sees attraction between two individuals as a dynamic state, which he feels is completely natural. This accounts for a Victim's inclination to focus on the mutual attraction, or particularly the attraction felt by the other person, as to its longer-term perspectives and implications, as well as a certain expectation that the partner will continuously take action to confirm the attraction. Failure on the partner to do so results on the individual assuming that it's already changing. The individual counts on the partner to forcefully bring the individual "down to earth from his thoughts " and focus on the immediate physical reality, continuously.



    I mention this because I'm feeling guilty. I've been dating an ESI that I met on Match for a few months, but it isn't at a stage where I feel I'm fully committed to her. In my mind, we are "dating" and are therefore non-exclusive. No promises have been made, no commitments forged. I like her a lot, but I haven't heard from her for a while.

    She recently told me that she was going to be busy for the next three weeks and isn't available for dates. I was OK with this for the first week, but now I'm thinking, "What else is out there?" When we were dating every couple weeks and had a firm appointment for our next meeting, I was fine. When I'm left in limbo without any input from her, I tend to wander.

    When we first started dating, I stopped looking at my Match account. Well, this morning, I opened it and found that I had 71 "likes" and one of them is from an ESI who lives an hour away. Now the question is, would I be a rat if I went on a date with this other ESI? I stayed married to my ex-wife for years after she moved out, and in retrospect, that wasn't faithfulness on my part, that was stupidity.

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    Adam, do you see the Victim romancing style in your own romantic interactions, for example during your LSI relationships? I know you are LIE but you have a certain confidence and take-what-I-want demeanor that doesn’t impress as being as passive as the Victim description usually denotes.

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    are you very sure that the girl you're dating is really an aggressor adam? don't you think she would've made her intentions clear by now if that were the case, instead of lsetting you wait? don't you think it's more of a victim-victim dynamic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    Adam, do you see the Victim romancing style in your own romantic interactions, for example during your LSI relationships? I know you are LIE but you have a certain confidence and take-what-I-want demeanor that doesn’t impress as being as passive as the Victim description usually denotes.
    @PinKDiGiT18, the confidence and "take-what-I-want" demeanor that you see is learned behavior from extensive experimentation. But at a foundational level, I still operate as a "Victim", as defined in the post above.

    Being a Victim doesn't necessarily mean being passive. To my way of thinking, it means being unsure of my SO's continued affections if she hasn't approached me recently. I certainly don't see relationships as being stable. I see them as naturally changing.

    I actually told the ESI that she should read up on what LIEs are like, so if we don't work out, she'll be able to choose the next guy better than she did her last two husbands (SEE and LSI). I truly am an optimizer in all things. She didn't respond to that statement. I have no idea what she was thinking. Lol. I mean, if you are an Aggressor and you think that relationships are static and the guy you are dating is talking about the next guy, what might you think? I have no idea, but I'm hoping she interprets my statement as demonstrating confidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    are you very sure that the girl you're dating is really an aggressor adam? don't you think she would've made her intentions clear by now if that were the case, instead of lsetting you wait? don't you think it's more of a victim-victim dynamic?
    No, @Alive, I still think she's an Aggressor. Just the way she talks makes me think that she wants what she wants. She doesn't always know how to get it; she needs a lot of help there, but she's sure about what she thinks she wants.

    I've dated Victims before. I've dated an LIE, an ILI, and a couple IEIs, and there just is no spark of sexuality between these types and me. Well, I found one of the IEIs sexually attractive, but she didn't feel that way about me.

    I've dated two LSIs and one ESI and they are sure of what they want. They aren't incredibly aggressive about it, but they know what they want.

    I was visiting the ESI I'm dating at her house and she was showing me the basement and she said "Oh, I still have my laundry up" and pointed to a bra hanging from a clothesline near the ceiling. I wouldn't have noticed it, but she made sure that I did. Maybe she's extra proud of her secondary sex characteristics, IDK.


    What I actually thought was that her bra looked like it was made from formed cardboard or something. I guess this is how they are made now, because the LSI wore bras like that. The SLI ex's bras were all white cloth and lace. I'm sure they had some elastic in them, but I never made a study of them.

    Maybe I should ask my ex where she bought her bras and what brand they were. She always had impeccable taste.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    The Erotic Attitudes article on this forum (https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...otic-Attitudes) has been edited several times and is now, in my opinion, less useful that it was when I first encountered it. The older version contained some interesting information about the ongoing interactions of the various romance styles. (https://web.archive.org/web/20120615...otic-Attitudes)

    For example, the earlier version said that:


    Typical characteristics of the Victim romance style

    • prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person
    • not always confident about revealing that interest
    • inclined to focus on whether or not the other person might reciprocate the interest
    • inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time
    • preference for partners that provoke in the individual a certain sense of awe in terms of power, physical presence, and the like
    • appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
    • this takes the form of the individual somewhat expecting the partner to be "mean" on occasion
    • in the case of Victim males with female partners, this latter trait assumes a characteristic analogous to a "knight devoted to his princess"
    • inclination to openly admit to a relationship having been ended by the partner rather than by the individual himself

    This romance style is defined by focus on Ni which is dynamic, irrational, and introverted, with perceptions of inner imagery away from the present physical reality. This means that a Victim sees attraction between two individuals as a dynamic state, which he feels is completely natural. This accounts for a Victim's inclination to focus on the mutual attraction, or particularly the attraction felt by the other person, as to its longer-term perspectives and implications, as well as a certain expectation that the partner will continuously take action to confirm the attraction. Failure on the partner to do so results on the individual assuming that it's already changing. The individual counts on the partner to forcefully bring the individual "down to earth from his thoughts " and focus on the immediate physical reality, continuously.



    I mention this because I'm feeling guilty. I've been dating an ESI that I met on Match for a few months, but it isn't at a stage where I feel I'm fully committed to her. In my mind, we are "dating" and are therefore non-exclusive. No promises have been made, no commitments forged. I like her a lot, but I haven't heard from her for a while.

    She recently told me that she was going to be busy for the next three weeks and isn't available for dates. I was OK with this for the first week, but now I'm thinking, "What else is out there?" When we were dating every couple weeks and had a firm appointment for our next meeting, I was fine. When I'm left in limbo without any input from her, I tend to wander.

    When we first started dating, I stopped looking at my Match account. Well, this morning, I opened it and found that I had 71 "likes" and one of them is from an ESI who lives an hour away. Now the question is, would I be a rat if I went on a date with this other ESI? I stayed married to my ex-wife for years after she moved out, and in retrospect, that wasn't faithfulness on my part, that was stupidity.
    Open the door to the ESI who lives an hour away. Leave the door open a crack to the ESI who's been busy. You did the right thing, in general, by giving her options. Now, do the right thing for yourself by interacting with an interested dual.

    Sometimes if an aggressor realizes a good victim has options, it sparks us to get off our a** (so to speak).

    Hope everything works out for you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Open the door to the ESI who lives an hour away. Leave the door open a crack to the ESI who's been busy. You did the right thing, in general, by giving her options. Now, do the right thing for yourself by interacting with an interested dual.

    Sometimes if an aggressor realizes a good victim has options, it sparks us to get off our a** (so to speak).

    Hope everything works out for you
    i already marked this constructive, but i just wanna say hey. i feel understood in the role of the alleged dual of some LIE or another when i read this. bless

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    if she's anything like me and she felt any urgency to secure commitment after going on a few dates, she wouldn't be busy for a few weeks. trust

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    u guys are trying so hard to see the "obvious"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    u guys are trying so hard to see the "obvious"
    Uh, no, I'm actually clueless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Open the door to the ESI who lives an hour away. Leave the door open a crack to the ESI who's been busy. You did the right thing, in general, by giving her options. Now, do the right thing for yourself by interacting with an interested dual.

    Sometimes if an aggressor realizes a good victim has options, it sparks us to get off our a** (so to speak).

    Hope everything works out for you
    Thanks, @Stray Cat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    u guys are trying so hard to see the "obvious"
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Uh, no, I'm actually clueless.
    This seems like a cool place to discuss & I'd say it doesn't matter whether you're confused or got all your ducks in a row. Even got college buddies where all we do is ask questions & discuss theory. Fun times. Not for everyone, obviously.

    Approaching situations like this with an open mind might help other members or even complete strangers down the line

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    With erotic attitudes I think there is a lot of natural subtlety and nuance that people don't see cuz 'ewww other people's sex is gross and disturbing' to us naturally. So I don't view infantile as 'diaper play' just like I don't view being a victim erotically as liking to be sexually abused because it's a fucked up thing to say as nobody likes being sexually abused lol- but maybe you would be naturally more open minded to some suggestive/aggressively "darker" stuff other people would take way too seriously.

    Anyways I think they are best understood by being more subtle with it and not taking them so literally. so to me being an infantile is more like being 'tended to' in ways that I'm not really into. kinda hard to explain cuz it's so subtle- its not that I don't want a partner who doesnt care or is a jerk- I'm just not into being tended to in that way. I mean if anybody thought that I as an IEI actually enjoy being sexually abused or thought they could rape me and then say 'but you're an IEI- you're supposed to like this stuff!' I would probably rightfully punch them in the jaw- even if I would hurt my hand more than their face cuz of my 1D Se and cuz I'm a Shadow Priest class and not a Warrior/Brawler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    With erotic attitudes I think there is a lot of natural subtlety and nuance that people don't see cuz 'ewww other people's sex is gross and disturbing' to us naturally. So I don't view infantile as 'diaper play' just like I don't view being a victim erotically as liking to be sexually abused because it's a fucked up thing to say as nobody likes being sexually abused lol- but maybe you would be naturally more open minded to some suggestive/aggressively "darker" stuff other people would take way too seriously.

    Anyways I think they are best understood by being more subtle with it and not taking them so literally. so to me being an infantile is more like being 'tended to' in ways that I'm not really into. kinda hard to explain cuz it's so subtle- its not that I don't want a partner who doesnt care or is a jerk- I'm just not into being tended to in that way. I mean if anybody thought that I as an IEI actually enjoy being sexually abused or thought they could rape me and then say 'but you're an IEI- you're supposed to like this stuff!' I would probably rightfully punch them in the jaw- even if I would hurt my hand more than their face cuz of my 1D Se and cuz I'm a Shadow Priest class and not a Warrior/Brawler.
    My experience with the victim is they'd prefer someone take charge in a direct, physical way in the concrete world. This doesn't necessarily mean something vulgar. There's a spectrum. How two consensual adults rate to each other in the sack is their own business.

    The closer she & I got the more experimenting we did.

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    I think I’ll be the only person so far to answer the question in the OP, lol. Anyway, as a male infantile, this is how I experience my “role.”

    Regarding what I like from women, it’s a bit of a cop out since it’s the stereotype, but I like to feel “cared” for; that my well-being is an object of concern. It tends to take me a little off-guard when a partner expresses this, since I don’t tend to think about this sort of thing myself. I think that’s why I tend to be so...receptive? appreciative? when someone expresses this for me — a mindset of “I can’t even be bothered to prioritize my own health, but here you are thinking of mine; you must really love me.” And I do think I’m inclined to view that sort of thing as an expression of love. Particularly I’m receptive/appreciative when someone makes food (good food, at least!) for me, or gently strokes my body, especially my chest, back, and arms. I also like to feel like my partner emotionally values me in a certain way — and this is, I think, the root of why this style is called “childlike,” since I think the way I like to be felt about is similar to the way someone feels about children, or at least the way I usually feel about them; namely that they bring happiness to you just for existing; that thinking about their potential fills you with optimism and joy; that you want to watch what they’ll grow into; that you want to keep them safe and let them know they’re loved and cared for, but also to give them some distance so they can grow. It’s hard to think of any other appropriate analogies. I also realize this sounds a bit weird to be saying about yourself, but don’t know how else to express it.

    As for how I act in a relationship, I tend to become playful, probably a lot more than people who haven’t seen me in this way would guess I’d act. I suppose this is another way the name “childlike” applies. Mostly this is a tendency to make jokes a lot, verbally spar with my partner, and act a little silly. Also, if my partner is an Fe person and in a good mood for a while, I typically start to become more emotive myself (I’m usually not like this at all) and talkative.

    As to how I express love, I’m not sure if this is common to all Ne types, but I’m not so good at being proactive. I tend to not to plan much in advance, especially secretly. I can never think of what to get someone for their birthday or a holiday, and I’ve had to force myself to make notes when I’ve had ideas, because I know I won’t remember and will be stumped when the time comes. What I prefer, though, is either A) for my partner to tell me what she wants me to do for her. I tend to be submissive to my partners in that way — I genuinely like making them happy; sometimes I can even feel uncomfortable if someone’s made happy by something I did, because it feels like I’m getting rewarded instead of her. B) for an idea to suddenly pop into my head and to just do it. For example “she looks a bit stressed; I’ll give her a massage.” “She’s restless; let’s go stargazing!” I tend to experience sudden bursts of affection and want to express them immediately. Maybe also similar to a child, I guess. シ

    On the topic of being made happy by someone else’s happiness, I recall reading an article, I think by Stratiyevskaya, which mentioned an LII-ESE couple, where on the LII’s birthday, the LII gave the ESE gifts. I remember thinking how weird it was that I related to that.

    There are obviously other things I do for my partner, and other ways I act toward them, but the above is all I can tie to this sort of infantile “role” in a relationship common to Ne-egos.

    I looked at the archived thread @Adam Strange linked. Here’s the LII/ILE infantile description:

    These types seem to exist outside their own sexuality. Sex is to be metabolized psychologically for them in an almost roundabout way - as an emotional entity, or possibly even an intellectual exercise. In a partner, they are looking for someone who will deal with (and protect) their quirks and understand their sexuality on the same intellectual/emotional level.


    Yeah, this seems generally accurate. The way I naturally approach sex is probably a bit...”quirky,” to use the article’s phrasing, and difficult to really describe, but as it says, yeah, maybe like an emotional or intellectual exercise. I think it has to do with feeling vulnerable and nervous in these kinds of situations, and those feelings get filtered by Ne into more abstract thoughts and a tinge of...weirdness, I guess. I relate especially to the phrasing of wanting to be “dealt with” and “protected.” Images that come to mind seem a little weird to explain.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 06-09-2021 at 12:23 PM.
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας.

    It’s hard to translate this literally and poetically into English, but this is my attempt at a translation: “For we love beauty, that we attain good ends thereby, and we love wisdom, though not in a way that makes us soft, nor that causes us to value weakness.”

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    Where attraction is a dynamic state to Ni+Se, it’s an adaptive state to Ne+Si. The Aggressor/Victim pair is oriented at meeting goals. The Infantile/Caregiver pair is oriented at meeting needs.

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    Those pictures are kind of funny to me but something is also a little off about all of them as well. I think there are some truth to it- it might be the kind of general snapshot of what is happening but there are other layers.

    I had a SLE dual once who I always envisioned as literally some sort of Paladin. ((The Cecil to my Rosa in a way even though you all know I hate Rosa ha)) However it was this ridiculous idealized image- because objectively speaking he wasn't really anything like that at all. But something about our unique dynamic, it's like I transformed him into a Paladin every time we met. He acted much more Paladin-y around me (and probably most other IEIs) even though objectively speaking his true class was a Gunner or Dark Archer. Or just plain Brute? lol. However, macho guys who are assholes to the rest of the world but sweet on you are just so hot and perfect. ((for str8 girl/gay guy cliche ness)) Sorry not sorry.

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