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Thread: Erotic attitudes

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    while SEIs seem to be more like, "Let me smother you with this ornamentation while feeding you cupcakes." It's the difference between an Aggressor and a Caregiver approach.
    Haha that made me laugh but isn't that type of thing more ESE than SEI? re: ornamentation smothering and cupcake feeding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post


    Okay, I just remember this clip and I want to include it in this thread. It can be debated whether it is more caregiver/infantile or aggressor/victim. I am curious what you may think. Just maybe we can interpret some scenes with erotic attitudes possibly. Either way, I love it. The characters had some time to get to know each other beforehand and Harry is Charlotte's divorce layer. If a man ever did what Harry did in the clip, I would exactly react like Charlotte

    Edit: If someone can explain to me how you guys are able to add like the full YouTube video without providing a link, that would be fully appreciated!

    Edit 2: Thank you @Adam Strange and @myresearch! you guys rocks!
    Loool I hate to admit it but some of her reactions were definitely similar to how i would've reacted. The laughing and telling him to stop (even though she likes it), and her being "hot" and needing to open the window lol
    I do like when guys are super direct in that way

    Except I wouldn't have pounced on him like she did lol
    Chronic "grass is always greener" syndrome




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    Quote Originally Posted by fatgurl View Post
    Loool I hate to admit it but some of her reactions were definitely similar to how i would've reacted. The laughing and telling him to stop (even though she likes it), and her being "hot" and needing to open the window lol
    I do like when guys are super direct in that way

    Except I wouldn't have pounced on him like she did lol
    Lol I would have been turned off by his blatant attempts to show off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    @Adam Strange, I thought that female ESIs simply preferred to masturbate; they only need to borrow male parts every now and then - but they do give back control immediately after they've finished using them.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Rebelondeck, I had sex with an ESI when I was about 26, and that's close to how it went. We had fun. The LSI's were more give-and-take, but still similar in many ways. One LSI told me "I want to use you for a few minutes" and climbed on top. Lol.

    In contrast, the SLI was on Planet Caregiver. You need dinner? It's there. You need clean clothes and your socks folded? She's on it. You're in the car on a vacation to Disneyland and your nose starts running? She has Kleenex and anti-histamines in her purse. Plus a pen and notebook to make a note to buy more.
    It's good if you're an Infantile and you like that sort of thing.

    God, why didn't someone tell me about Erotic Attitudes before I got married?

    This is so true . I can't believe that its socionics related but it makes sense lol. The bold parts had me laughing. I've actually said something close to this to an LSI I'm with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImOutThere View Post
    This is so true . I can't believe that its socionics related but it makes sense lol. The bold parts had me laughing. I've actually said something close to this to an LSI I'm with.

    I have been talking with an ESI-Se lesbian and she said she likes men and even kissed one once, but she doesn't like their body parts used for reproduction.

    What the hell is wrong with the world? Maybe Se-creatives just think in these terms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I have been talking with an ESI-Se lesbian and she said she likes men and even kissed one once, but she doesn't like their body parts used for reproduction.

    What the hell is wrong with the world? Maybe Se-creatives just think in these terms.

    Yeah its not that extreme for me, but it is a very aggressive and possessive sort of love. Victims like it I guess.

    She hates weakness and I'm not a submissive person, so its not like that. But that aggression is still there.

    "You are mine" is a typical phrase. Like a cat with a toy or something.

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    Should caregiver and aggressor women approach an infantile or victim man first? In more queer relationships I don’t see this as an issue of which gender has the erotic styles and there seems to be less adherence to gender norms typically (feel free to correct me if I am wrong) However, stereotypically straight relationship the man that approaches first and I have read that it may be better for the women with either of these styles to approach first. I have read personally that an SEI women may have to approach an ILE first. I have a lot of feelings about this but I would like some different options and views from others on this subject.

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    I can speak for straight relationships I've seen and ones I experienced, Men are often the first to make a move. It's just the way it works in society. Victim men approach an aggressor woman and things move normally, they play the courting game quite well.

    You may run into the problem of approaching an ILE that you're interested in because they aren't good at forming relationships and may be oblivious about how they can go about it.

    They may need to drop some very obvious signs that you're interested and open for a relationship if you aren't comfortable outright asking them out.

    I honestly think the romance styles are a little too gendered and it's obvious they're only talking about straight relationships.

    Its obvious aggressors are supposed to be knights in shining armor and victims are supposed to be the damsel.

    Infantiles are the little ladies and Caregivers the doting husband.

    I think it can unnecessarily confuse things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Should caregiver and aggressor women approach an infantile or victim man first? In more queer relationships I don’t see this as an issue of which gender has the erotic styles and there seems to be less adherence to gender norms typically (feel free to correct me if I am wrong) However, stereotypically straight relationship the man that approaches first and I have read that it may be better for the women with either of these styles to approach first. I have read personally that an SEI women may have to approach an ILE first. I have a lot of feelings about this but I would like some different options and views from others on this subject.
    ILE's usually play socially role that seems to be attributed for better success but it usually is just a camouflage - at least in relations.
    The ILE is very sociable, however, he is not always able to create a successful family. He does not really understand the feeling of love. Love seems to occur outside of his control. Although it occurs that during life he may never be the one rejected or abandoned by another, even women of this psycho-type rarely agree to completely dedicate themselves to family.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Should caregiver and aggressor women approach an infantile or victim man first? In more queer relationships I don’t see this as an issue of which gender has the erotic styles and there seems to be less adherence to gender norms typically (feel free to correct me if I am wrong) However, stereotypically straight relationship the man that approaches first and I have read that it may be better for the women with either of these styles to approach first. I have read personally that an SEI women may have to approach an ILE first. I have a lot of feelings about this but I would like some different options and views from others on this subject.
    I've seen a female ESI make a successful approach

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    Spiritual victim- I’ve been thinking about this after laying in my bed and thinking about this in more depth. This can be completely different for everyone else but this is from my perspective.


    I’ve noticed that I loved men who can „trap“ me in a spiritual sense. Like, I can’t run away from their logical trap. For example, I do love to argue a point until both parties can refute the other or can’t come to a compromise. I’ve noticed in romantic areas, I’ve always enjoyed it when a man is forward in his logical reasoning that I cant refute in his attraction and need toward me. Like in those videos that I posted in Harry‘s logical plea for Charlotte. I liked to be trapped like that and find every way I can escape that if I can. I don’t want to escape but I need to test it and know. If I feel like my partner can’t do that or it has been awhile since he as asserted an aggressor spiritual style, I become uninterested or less interested. Argue and trap me into a spiritual ideology that I can’t refute.


    Mental caregiver- I have an emotional victim and mental caregiver friend. She seems to be more caregiver then me at times. However, it’s more about the objective mental aspect of caregiving I’ve noticed then the physical one. She cooks more the me but It’s more so about providing the food then molding the food to the person. It seems to me that mental caregiver will take care of it in a mental sense while the infantile mental know they will be provided for in that sense and don’t have to worry. Like she would make sure there was food to eat, take care of when sick etc. However that was more of an in the moment thing and day to day basis. For me it’s both a preventative thing and alpha NT can be picky with their stuff so it’s an active thing for me to see how they will respond physically and then actively change it to make them more comfortable.
    It’s different but similar. I find it funny as we would both show these attributes but play on different sides of caregiving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    I’ve noticed that I loved men who can „trap“ me in a spiritual sense. Like, I can’t run away from their logical trap. For example, I do love to argue a point until both parties can refute the other or can’t come to a compromise. I’ve noticed in romantic areas, I’ve always enjoyed it when a man is forward in his logical reasoning that I cant refute in his attraction and need toward me. Like in those videos that I posted in Harry‘s logical plea for Charlotte. I liked to be trapped like that and find every way I can escape that if I can. I don’t want to escape but I need to test it and know. If I feel like my partner can’t do that or it has been awhile since he as asserted an aggressor spiritual style, I become uninterested or less interested. Argue and trap me into a spiritual ideology that I can’t refute.
    Only my thoughts, but this piece sounds like your Ti HA in action - which has its own place when it comes to erotic attitudes, of course. Having Ti role, I have a strong aversion to being put in any kind of vulnerable logical position. It is like a stranger touching a cat's stomach for me to have my viewpoints deconstructed by someone who has not been established as part of my "Fi community." I find it appealing knowing my partner could do so, but is subtle about it (which basically describes Ti ignoring). Knowing how my own Hidden Agenda function works, I can imagine how this ability to assert logical dominance in a partner would appeal to your HA - and SLEs and ILEs do what you've described here very frequently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    Having Ti role, I have a strong aversion to being put in any kind of vulnerable logical position. It is like a stranger touching a cat's stomach for me to have my viewpoints deconstructed by someone who has not been established as part of my "Fi community."
    I can understand this and I relate to it somewhat. I feel like some people only know how to connect with others through arguing logical points. So some random person just starts going on and on and trying to start a debate with me when I don't even know who they are, I can feel that same exact way. I'll just bow out, I don't really care about arguing its so tedious to me.

    Even on this forum, I don't have the patience to go back and forth with anyone. I think some types may like it and see it as engaging, its boring to me.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    @MissDucki

    However, stereotypically straight relationship the man that approaches first and I have read that it may be better for the women with either of these styles to approach first.
    According to Wikipedia, 97% of heterosexual females prefer the submissive role in romantic & sexual relationships. I have teased you guys too much for this and I have been too much of an asshole before with it but I think it's true lol. So yeah it's only natural that you want the man to approach first. If it won't turn you to be the approacher- I'm not sure you should try it. People shouldn't do something that doesn't feel right or natural for them or just doesn't work.

    and yeah in queer relationships its naturally more versatile but there is still the 'who wears the pants' type of thing going on. Women almost always end up wearing the pants because of the saying 'happy wife = happy life' but still want to be approached first. My dad probably wasn't an alpha male really (well he was really handsome...) I mean he could be nerdy and shy. My mom told me that she would NOT have dated him if he didn't approach first. Luckily he did, for the very fact of my existance lol.

    If you like a ILE man he needs to frankly stop being a pussy and approach you more. str8 females love when their boyfriends and husbands are all manly and dominant and shit and there's no shame in admitting it. I have more directly said this to a ILE guy I kinda like- but I don't know if that strategy works for straight females that much as being too blunt like that might backfire. I'm allowed to get away with it better maybe. But yeah I just tell a ILE to be more aggressive etc. Sometimes they can do it pretty good but yeah... I need a SLE I think lol.

    Regardless of the genders involved- I think you need typical dom/outgoing and sub/shy energy to create a lot of heat and fire, cuz its like putting batteries in the right way you know. But if it's 'too much' the dom guy will just break your heart too and it will end in heartbreak where ur calling ur gay best friend on the phone at 3AM while watching Sex in the City and eating ice cream. So I think you need mostly primal opposite but with a little bit of love and affection to tie it together.

    Most of the world is straight but a few are gay. Three of the letters in socionics duals are opposites but that last letter is the same. That sort of thing you know? In Yin-Yang there is the bit of the other in the deepest part of it all times- it's not a complete opposite. I've seen many relationships fail because it seemed so hot and straight and normal because the first few letters were compatible but the last one clashed!!!! So what they thought was pure bliss ended in narcissistic disaster.

    And her fate was avoided because she had a sassy gay Bandd. <3
    Last edited by Hot Scalding Gayser; 08-25-2021 at 05:38 AM.

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    Thanks @BandD
    I am seriously glad for your take. It’s good to know that what I want is not crazy!


    I am just frustrated to say the least. I really don’t do well with social “games” like dating in the sense, I am always confused on what to do to get what I want because it feels very Te like to me and well….Te POLR LMAO :cries: I don’t do well with being Se like realism. Plus my dialectical algorithmic thinking style has been ramped up with this kind of stuff, all I see are contradictions!


    I seem to attract a lot of Beta type 7 harmonizing ST men or Delta NF men for some reason. I don’t know what it is about me. I come across very different from the site. I’ve been told I come across closed off and shy. But, a lot of the time I don’t like how they approach me either. With ST men I get their wish washy-ness that I don’t like (I also tend to get a bit turned off by their Se bravo at times and aggressor style) and I often find the Delta NF to be too patronizing for my taste.




    I don’t like approaching. It’s not something natural to me and with anything I got to start I do it to just get things over with and the ball moving. I would heavily prefer someone else do that. I like more dominate outgoing men. If I have to act like a man and be more masculine, it really pisses me off (and I have had to me the “man” more time then I would like in my life, I don’t want that in a romantic relationship). I am heavily attracted to naturally territorial/protective and straightforward/blunt men. Not in an ST way though, NT men go about it differently. The rare approaches or ones that I like often start with talking about something interesting (Ne) and that always got me attention while keeping heavy expectations off of me. Plus they don’t assume crap and ask me which is a breath of fresh air. Just it seems that the ILE men like that out there don’t find me attractive enough to approach?!?! I don’t what I am doing wrong!!!


    Like, I know I would be a good SEI partner. Just, I can’t seem to attract the right kind of guy that I want. I still want to be myself just, I don’t know which parts I need to lean on more to attract them….ahh romance and life~

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    @MissDucki

    The most wishy-washy guy I met was a IEE. I don't really associate wishy-washyness with ST men. They're the opposite of that to me. If they want to rob a gas station, they'll just do it lol. They could probably sometimes re-think their actions through better and be more wise and contemplative if they should do something or not ((be more "wishy-washy" in the right dosages)) but yeah eww that trait just isn't attractive.

    Plus my dialectical algorithmic thinking style has been ramped up with this kind of stuff, all I see are contradictions!

    The right guy I think cuts through your contradictions and shows his love/passion for u. Kind of a corny analogy but reminds me of female energy being like foilage and male energy being like an axe that cuts the foilage down to forge a path. Male energy cuts everything down so a path or direction can be followed through and so things don't get lost in overgrown greenery. If a guy isn't "cutting things down" enough I think he's either being a pussy - or he just doesn't like you enough in that way to do that for you. And yeah society has their own Shadow relation with this stuff how they get all mad and pissed off at males for cutting crap down but at the same time we love it and need it and it helps everything.

    me to timber/wacey (hot gay mascuilne Chad on this forum): "You arrogant jerk how could you cut down that poor defenseless tree like that?"

    ((...sees how hot he looks doing it with his shirt off and noms his face off and sleeps with him anyway))

    Yeah see- str8 female/gay guy needs this sort of thing so much that we will sleep with a guy anyway if he has that even if he also doesn't share our heart or even treat us that well because that stuff is just more important than the other things even if it's not that PC to say so. It's not everything of course - you still need Disney love and sameness but the masculine containment is always going to take priority and #1 precedence.. That is just the way it is. But yeah over time in the nitty gritty of life and life experience I think we all learn not to let that turn into an abuse scenerio or a situation where it's too sadistic (str8 relationships can stereotypically be too white trash sadistic like if you lack the 'love' side of things). It is a balancing act.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    Alright, I am going to bring it back on topic a bit.

    I kinda want to discuss my victim friend in comparison. I have a close LIE-Ni friend and we talk about love and romance a lot. One thing she always discusses about is that she needs a guy who is not afraid to be direct with her and feel that chemistry and that bit of aggression. I have noticed she responds well to Se men from both Beta and Gamma types. She always affirms that she needs a strong man and she really enjoys men who demonstrate strong masculine protective traits. She seemed to have run into a caregiver recently and while she liked him initially, it fizzled quite quickly as she found him too polite and distant. In relationships, she tends to be more of a spiritual caregiver and we do discuss these aspects from time to times. I always find this interesting cause I am the opposite.

    I don't like men who are too aggressive with me. While I do find it attractive when a man shows interest in me directly and feels protective over me, I can't have it too fast as her. She seems to need that shakeup more then I do. We always come back to the topic that she needs a very straightforward and aggressive dude that is not afraid to go after her and is certain. I need a more of a polite and slightly distant dude who is certain but is not afraid to take his time and be slow with me.

    Another thing I want to mention, A lot of male aggressors friends/coworker have assumed that I am weak and feel the need to take me under their wing. I don't know if it's cause I come across cute, naive, and innocent but, I find it strange. Don't get me wrong, I want to feel protected and it is my number one need in a partner. Just, with Aggressor men, they kinda assume that I am weak and need to be taken care of and protected because of it. I had a dope SLE coworker that was my favorite and he was older then me. He was like an older brother and we chat from time to time. The funny thing I noticed at work is that he would get overly surprised when I showed attributes that I can stand on my own too feet and that I wasn't as innocence as he once thought. The other SLE that I knew don't seem to know how to take it either it seems.
    Just I find the aggressor style a little strange in their reasoning behind the need to protect me. I want to be protected cause a guy values me and finds me special and just not because I come across as seemingly weak. I can be wrong, Aggressors, please feel free to critique me if your reasoning and attraction is different. Just, that is how I viewed it coming from a caregiver perspective.
    First of all,
    That's great you have a close LIE friend.
    Seems like everyone hates their conflictor. Some of my close friends are SEI's. We don't always agree with each other, but we actually get along and respect our differences.

    In bold: I can relate to her, and she's an LIE-Ni too.
    1. Needs a guy who is not afraid to be direct with her and feel that chemistry and that bit of aggression --> My friends always say this "Scarlett has a really strong personality, she needs someone who's equally strong or even stronger than her"
    2. She always affirms that she needs a strong man and she really enjoys men who demonstrate strong masculine protective traits. She responds well to Se men from both Beta and Gamma types. --> YES I get along really really well with Se-dom and Se-aux, but Se-dom is actually "not my type", my type is someone who's more introverted than me, that's why of all the SEE/SLE's around me, not a single one that I would take seriously. But I like to just flirt or play along for fun, because they're fun.
    But my type is more like LSI's. Or maybe ESI's.
    3. She seemed to have run into a caregiver recently and while she liked him initially, it fizzled quite quickly as she found him too polite and distant --> This! A caregiver, is it an SLI? I'm so into SLI's and yes, it's so true I like them too quickly.


    Quote Originally Posted by skosh View Post
    Caregiver girls would appear to have extra sensory perception when it comes to potential partners, particularly the childlike types. Its funny because they may even congratulate themselves. As if to say, "See, I know what you like. I'm exactly your type." They seem to have trouble admitting to themselves the guy is exactly their type.

    I did have a phase where I felt Se-type girls were best. I do find ESFPs and ESIs women extremely attractive. It's just that I've gradually found the Si-types have such stunning intangibles, I'd be a fool to deny them.
    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    I feel called out and exposed
    This is true. I notice this. I think not just to their partner but to everyone. Even my SEI friend is super happy if I enjoy her cook.


    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post


    Okay, I just remember this clip and I want to include it in this thread. It can be debated whether it is more caregiver/infantile or aggressor/victim. I am curious what you may think. Just maybe we can interpret some scenes with erotic attitudes possibly. Either way, I love it. The characters had some time to get to know each other beforehand and Harry is Charlotte's divorce layer. If a man ever did what Harry did in the clip, I would exactly react like Charlotte

    Edit: If someone can explain to me how you guys are able to add like the full YouTube video without providing a link, that would be fully appreciated!

    Edit 2: Thank you @Adam Strange and @myresearch! you guys rocks!
    Oh no one ever watched this series?
    I watched the whole series. Haha. I was a fan. Anyway. So, yes, I know exactly the personalities of each character.
    And yes, Charlotte is an SEI and that guy Harry is an ILE. They finally got married, it's Charlotte's 2nd marriage. They're actually the best couple among the four ladies.
    One of the best example for SEI-ILE dual couple I guess, I like their storyline.

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    How could I miss this

    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    I really don’t do well with social “games” like dating in the sense, I am always confused on what to do to get what I want because it feels very Te like to me and well….Te POLR LMAO :cries: I don’t do well with being Se like realism. Plus my dialectical algorithmic thinking style has been ramped up with this kind of stuff, all I see are contradictions!

    I don’t like approaching. It’s not something natural to me and with anything I got to start I do it to just get things over with and the ball moving. I would heavily prefer someone else do that. I like more dominate outgoing men. If I have to act like a man and be more masculine, it really pisses me off (and I have had to me the “man” more time then I would like in my life, I don’t want that in a romantic relationship). I am heavily attracted to naturally territorial/protective and straightforward/blunt men. Not in an ST way though, NT men go about it differently.
    This is interesting.

    Ok, I LIKE approaching.

    Does it say a victim will not approach first? Well, I'm an LIE, which is a victim, but I like to approach first!
    But most of the time, the guys always come to approach me first (and these are mostly SLEs, SEE's, or any other extroverted types) on the bus, on the street, at school, at work, and I think because I didn't get to approach them first, I feel like not in control so they kinda turn me off? That's I think the reason why SLEs are not my type of guy.
    So I just have to have the control, I wanna be the one who approach first. And these are mostly LSIs, or SLIs.

    Like you said, it feels very Te, so I always know what to do (combined with my high Ni and good tert-Se), so approaching & flirting are natural to me, I got the ball and I'm in control!

    BUT,
    I like being pursued. I like being chased. This is where I agree with the definition of "victim".
    So I will be the one who does the approaching and starts the talking first, but I want him to be the one who does the chasing and asks me out.

    If I approach SLI's (and I always do, they're my type anyway), I realise there will be a distant after a while. Seems like caregivers just don't know how to play? Or maybe they don't care lol. So I would get bored after a while too.
    But LSI's, SLE's, SEE's and ESI's are the ones who can keep up with my "games". Aggressor-victim mode: on.

    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post

    The rare approaches or ones that I like often start with talking about something interesting (Ne)
    and that always got me attention while keeping heavy expectations off of me. Plus they don’t assume crap and ask me which is a breath of fresh air. Just it seems that the ILE men like that out there don’t find me attractive enough to approach?!?! I don’t what I am doing wrong!!!


    Like, I know I would be a good SEI partner. Just, I can’t seem to attract the right kind of guy that I want. I still want to be myself just, I don’t know which parts I need to lean on more to attract them….ahh romance and life~
    Haha.
    If I wanna approach someone, that guy has to be interesting. There must be something interesting enough for me to see so I can approach the guy (in Te-style). And he must be available, or make himself available.
    So, I would guess, in your case, just be yourself and kinda show your Si-Fe around him, be available so he can see that. He should be interested and approach you with his Ne-style.
    Last edited by Scarlett; 10-22-2021 at 09:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett View Post
    Ok, I LIKE approaching.

    BUT,
    I like being pursued. I like being chased. This is where I agree with the definition of "victim".
    So I will be the one who does the approaching and starts the talking first, but I want him to be the one who does the chasing and asks me out.
    Wait.

    I just realised.
    Even though I like to approach someone, it's not because I like him. I'm just interested in him, more like in a rational way, e.g. he does x in an interesting way, etc. Plus I ALWAYS like to meet new people and make new friends anyway.
    So later on when someone else asks me "so Scarlett do you like him?" I always doubt myself about my own feeling. This I think relates to my inferior-Fi, or the erotic victim characters:

    • doubts about intensity of own interest in another person
    • not always confident about revealing that interest


    So at the end I just say "well, he's a good guy" sort of thing. Lol.

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