Erotic attitudes

[Tim]

Don’t know who Naranjo is, but nah enneagram 8 is a more rational type. It has nothing to do with the complex of subservience.

Btw are you sure that your not LSE? Lmao

I'm pretty sure I'm SLE. If I'm not SLE, then I'm LSI. Complex of Subservience is compatible with Enneagram 8. Enneagram 8 avoid weakness and so does the Complex of Subservience.

By the way, Naranjo is one of the developer of Enneagram. He wrote this excerpt:
https://www.personalitycafe.com/thre...hapter.134294/
Sounds like SLE more than LSE/LIE. Doesn't it? In the description, sensory-motor dominance works more for sensing type than intuition so LIE is thrown out.

Enneagram 8 is a reactive gut type. Reactive gut type is irrational. If someone attempt to overpower an enneagram 8, they can't help it but restore the balance of power and get revenge immediately sometimes through insults and retaliation. That's very compatible with SLE. LxE are more likely to be Competency type (1, 3, and 5) than a Reactive type.

[Tim]

If his avatar picture is himself, I'd say he's drifting into LSI territory. I mean, *mustache*.

LSI is my second choice but my Fe is stronger than 1D. In the Transcendence Discord, I got a reputation of yelling and being expressive when I talk and being the loudest of the mic.

I'm basically the reverse of @Braingel who is IEI-Fe but often mistyped as EIE.

[Tim]

I do agree with Tim E8 sounds a bit more stereotypically Se lead or ego bc it’s less rational that it is about “maintaining boundaries” and imposing that on the environment
but that’s not “either/or” that it’s either mostly SxE who are 8 or LXE cuz I honestly don’t know could be either one but yeah description itself leans Se I would say
ost likely IEI esp relative to EII and idk about that either haha. I’ve certainly come across sx4s that don’t type IEI. Maybe IEI is a relatively more common type online I dunno

if include myself 2/3 sx 4 I know are not IEI
but I’ve also heard him claim sx 4s are most likely IEI esp relative to EII and idk about that either haha. I’ve certainly come across sx4s that don’t type IEI. Maybe IEI is a relatively more common type online I dunno

if include myself 2/3 sx 4 I know are not IEI
there’s more examples of those people on forums tho

Yeah idk about that either. Plenty of ExI enneagram 4s.

I would say enneagram 4 are Beta NF and then Gamma Introverts and then EII.

ESI are more likely to be 6, 1, and 9w8. EII are more likely to be 6, 9w1, and self-preservation 2w1.

[Poptart]

I'm pretty sure I'm SLE. If I'm not SLE, then I'm LSI. Complex of Subservience is compatible with Enneagram 8. Enneagram 8 avoid weakness and so does the Complex of Subservience.

By the way, Naranjo is one of the developer of Enneagram. He wrote this excerpt:
https://www.personalitycafe.com/thre...hapter.134294/
Sounds like SLE more than LSE/LIE. Doesn't it? In the description, sensory-motor dominance works more for sensing type than intuition so LIE is thrown out.

Enneagram 8 is a reactive gut type. Reactive gut type is irrational. If someone attempt to overpower an enneagram 8, they can't help it but restore the balance of power and get revenge immediately sometimes through insults and retaliation. That's very compatible with SLE. LxE are more likely to be Competency type (1, 3, and 5) than a Reactive type.

Enneagram 8s might be more likely to seek revenge, and while that is compatible with SLE, it’s certainly not exclusive to the type. When you read the enneagram 8 description in it’s entirety, a picture of a rational, extroverted, logical type emerges. That’s not to say that ALL enneagram 8s are LxEs. Enneagram is not about strengths and weaknesses the same way that socionics is. I’ve noticed that the hidden agenda function can often be a major player in someone’s enneagram type despite it being a weak function. For example, enneagram 1 (often associated with Fi) is a common type for xLIs with Fi Ha. Oh and speaking of—like e8, e1 is also a gut type, yet people often associate it with rational ESIs, which suggests that gut types are not wholly irrational like you claim.

[Northstar]

8 sp is the only enneagram type that seems to fit my personal complexes. I could see it more common for every 4D Te type with valued (or demo) Se, so ILE would be relatively uncommon. I don’t think 8 is more Te lead because of avoidance of showing vulnerability and IME Fi DS types are okay with admitting the needs of their Fi, their duals like that.

[Tim]

Enneagram 8s might be more likely to seek revenge, and while that is compatible with SLE, it’s certainly not exclusive to the type. When you read the enneagram 8 description in it’s entirety, a picture of a rational, extroverted, logical type emerges. That’s not to say that ALL enneagram 8s are LxEs. Enneagram is not about strengths and weaknesses the same way that socionics is. I’ve noticed that the hidden agenda function can often be a major player in someone’s enneagram type despite it being a weak function. For example, enneagram 1 (often associated with Fi) is a common type for xLIs with Fi Ha. Oh and speaking of—like e8, e1 is also a gut type, yet people often associate it with rational ESIs, which suggests that gut types are not wholly irrational like you claim.

I still think 8s are more likely to be SLE than Te lead. Most description of enneagram 8 are extroverted but more sensory and concerned about the power structure. The understanding of the power structure is pure Se not Te. It focuses on the body and thus it is irrational. More specifically, this is more Se+Ti than Te. Ti (and 4D Te) is where they get the quasi-rationality.

I do think LSE/LIE 8s exist though but it is less common with SLE 8s.

By the way, 1s are Competency Gut Types not Reactive Gut Types. There's a difference between a competent type and a reactive type. 1s are angry but they repressed their anger by being competent similar to how 3s repressed their shame by being competent. Meanwhile, 8s openly react toward their anger. Often times, the anger is out of control and thus it is just impulsive irrationality. Zhukov is an enneagram 8 (Reactive Gut Type) while Jack London is an enneagram 5 (Competent Head Type).

[peteronfireee2]

[Tim]

That's because most people in the MBTI community can't defined the functions that is consistent with Socionics and even Jung. Many self-identified / benchmarked ENTJ are Se base. Zhukov and Julius Caesar is often typed as an ENTJ in the MBTI community yet they are SLE and SEE respectively in Socionics.

MBTI get Te and Se mixed up. Being forceful is considered Te in MBTI yet being forceful have more to do with external observation of who is big/small, weak/strong (Jungian and Socionics basic principles of Se) rather than being factual and efficient.

[peteronfireee2]

That's because most people in the MBTI community can't defined the functions that is consistent with Socionics and even Jung. Many self-identified / benchmarked ENTJ are Se base. Zhukov and Julius Caesar is often typed as an ENTJ in the MBTI community yet they are SLE and SEE respectively in Socionics.

They get Te and Se mixed up. Being forceful is considered Te in MBTI yet being forceful have more to do with external observation of who is big/small, weak/strong (Jungian and Socionics basic principles of Se) rather than being factual and efficient.

yea true true ... I only wanted to share this bc it provides some kind of data, at the very least

[peteronfireee2]

That's because most people in the MBTI community can't defined the functions that is consistent with Socionics and even Jung. Many self-identified / benchmarked ENTJ are Se base. Zhukov and Julius Caesar is often typed as an ENTJ in the MBTI community yet they are SLE and SEE respectively in Socionics.

MBTI get Te and Se mixed up. Being forceful is considered Te in MBTI yet being forceful have more to do with external observation of who is big/small, weak/strong (Jungian and Socionics basic principles of Se) rather than being factual and efficient.

speaking of which look at all the INxx nerds dominating this survey

[peteronfireee2]

I’ve definitely noticed that everybodyyyy or at least that’s how it can seem sometimes is INFP online. Joined the Facebook group once and was overwhelmed by the sheer amount of people on there and new posts popping up every few seconds

This supports my thesis that @Stray Cat is actually a LII nerd (or some type of INxx) masquerading as SLE

[peteronfireee2]

From the data collected above, we can reasonable say INxx (or victim/infantile erotic styles) are the most likely types to be computer nerds.

[Baqer]

*phILE

Of course, ILE's are the most loving types.

[Stray Cat]

This supports my thesis that @Stray Cat is actually a LII nerd (or some type of INxx) masquerading as SLE

This is actually @Stray Cat in this documentary, everyone

- You're the fucking homo who sends me PM

- You're the dirty dildo who writes visitor messages on my profile page

- You're the smelly terd who tags me 5 times a day.

- I've never written you a PM, never tagged you, never written shit on your retarded ass profile page


You're a nagging little c*nt who never clams up but still makes conclusions about people based on shit you read online.

Close your legs & your ass cause nobody gives a fuck about your lame square obsession with me.

I honestly don't give a shit why you joined this site or why you feel the need to stalk & require my motherfucking attention.

You'll respond to this, you're gonna get the dog gifs cause I'm not sidetracking this thread cause of your irrational neediness

[peteronfireee2]

- You're the fucking homo who sends me PM

- You're the fucking dildo who visitor messages on my profile page

- You're the fucking term who tags me 5 times a day.

- I've never written you a PM, never tagged you, never written shit on your retarded ass profile page


You're a nagging little can't who never clams up and makes conclusions about people based on shit you read online.

Close your legs & your ass cause nobody gives a fuck about your lame square obsession with me.

I honestly don't give a shit why you joined this site or why you feel the need to stalk & require my motherfucking attention.

You'll respond to this, you're gonna get the dog gifs cause I'm not sidetracking this thread cause you're irrationally needy.

Shut up lol

[Poptart]

- You're the fucking homo who sends me PM

- You're the dirty dildo who writes visitor messages on my profile page

- You're the smelly terd who tags me 5 times a day.

- I've never written you a PM, never tagged you, never written shit on your retarded ass profile page


You're a nagging little c*nt who never clams up but still makes conclusions about people based on shit you read online.

Close your legs & your ass cause nobody gives a fuck about your lame square obsession with me.

I honestly don't give a shit why you joined this site or why you feel the need to stalk & require my motherfucking attention.

You'll respond to this, you're gonna get the dog gifs cause I'm not sidetracking this thread cause of your irrational neediness

You can always block him…

[Stray Cat]

Shut up lol

[peteronfireee2]

You can always block him…

@Stray Cat

Plz block me, I beg u

[peteronfireee2]

@Stray Cat

I know u can't tho. Cuz of ur feelz for me

[peteronfireee2]

@Stray Cat

u can resist all u want. but u will fall into my frame eventually. it's inevitable.

[peteronfireee2]

or not, ur an infantile, afterall

[Stray Cat]

@Stray Cat

I know u can't tho. Cuz of ur feelz for me

@Stray Cat

u can resist all u want. but u will fall into my frame eventually. it's inevitable.

[Stray Cat]

or not, ur an infantile, afterall

[PinKDiGiT18]

Another thing I find interesting is how, although erotic attitudes are often grouped into mirrors (Gamma Victims, Delta Infantiles), the mirrors themselves seem to manifest their erotic attitudes quite differently. IEEs, though they lead with the intuitive function, actually seem to appreciate a bit of traditionalism more than I do. EIIs can be...surprising, in what they like.

[tuathe]

Relationships with aggressors are like when you're on a diet and someone is encouraging you to eat something unhealthy. It's fine in moderate amounts but not what I'd like long-term. They're easy to understand and discussions flow well, but something about their goals, interests and how they treat people seems wrong to me. Too direct, stubborn, risky, they often fail to see how others may react to their actions and their morality seems egoistic to me.

Caregivers are fine as friends but quite boring. When they try to help me it's annoying because it's often about something I can do and have my way of doing it.

Victims seem confusing from a distance, they talk a lot about things I don't care about. I don't have much experience with them.

Infantile types are interesting but also the most difficult. I appreciate their point of view but they're hard to understand, I usually need some time to digest their thoughts. I also think they feel comfortable in similar situations and places I feel comfortable in, it's just hard to connect with them.

I can't say much about the literal erotic part but I'm definitely attracted to cuteness, things considered sexy seem weird to me.

sigh, where are my caregivers at

[Stray Cat]

With regard to the Si/Ne axis, and in an erotic situation, which tends to be the more dominant or submissive? Does the Si "caregiver" lead/dominate the Ne "infantile" or does the Ne "infantile" lead/dominate the Si "caregiver"? Is the infantile the submissive or is "caregiver/infantile" dichotomy a balance?

[Stray Cat]

I know you’re not strictly referring to bdsm D/s but I find usually there’s another layer over the socionics erotic axis for a lot of people that can confound things a bit. An example, a DDLG couple I came across - LIE Daddy Dom and ESI (I think) little. But he claimed she was “sexually dominant”… so you get the idea

Its not a clearly delineated thing; other sexual proclivities interact with socionics erotic axis. Also again going to refer to the infantile Daddy Dom I had come across in high school as another example.

Nah. I'm not really talking about roleplay. I asking if, for example, does the Si-ego lead the Ne-ego. I'd say erotic attitude is an umbrella word for how each perceiving ego interprets the world. Erotic attitude could be sexual or it could be the role that particular ego assumes. Si-egos tend to care give. This is the role they tend to use when interacting with the world/society. My guess was that the Si-ego was more of a parental figure and thus the dominant. Maybe not. Figured I'd ask.

[MissDucki]

With regard to the Si/Ne axis, and in an erotic situation, which tends to be the more dominant or submissive? Does the Si "caregiver" lead/dominate the Ne "infantile" or does the Ne "infantile" lead/dominate the Si "caregiver"? Is the infantile the submissive or is "caregiver/infantile" dichotomy a balance?

I would not say that the Si caregiver is 'dominate' and the Ne infantile is the 'submissive. Like @necrosebud mentioned, the Si caregiver more so 'takes the lead'. Have you ever tried to control an infantile? LOL it is not going to happen Unlike victims, the worse thing you can do to an infantile is make them 'choose' or 'contain them. Especially in regards to seduction. IMO The Caregiver rather takes the lead on where the infantile wants to go sensation wise. Si is all about personal and internal sensations and since infantile are very receptive to it, I would think they would be more reactive of the Si caregiver taking the lead and showing them where to get the most bang for their buck so to speak. I think the roles may switch once the infantile gets comfortable and start using the Ne possibilities to show more options or alternatives. In the sense, Ne wants to try this possibility, gives the vision, and the Si can envision the sensation and make it happen. The roles tend to not be concrete, rather more so taking turns leading and following rather then dominating and submitting. That is how I would envision it theory wise and what I would rather have personally.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Nah. I'm not really talking about roleplay. I asking if, for example, does the Si-ego lead the Ne-ego. I'd say erotic attitude is an umbrella word for how each perceiving ego interprets the world. Erotic attitude could be sexual or it could be the role that particular ego assumes. Si-egos tend to care give. This is the role they tend to use when interacting with the world/society. My guess was that the Si-ego was more of a parental figure and thus the dominant. Maybe not. Figured I'd ask.

I would expect the exact dynamics to play out differently for each Ne type. From talking with an ILE, I get the impression his experience is fairly different, but don’t know enough to be able to elaborate more.

But from my own experience with an Si type: besides occasional times when one of us tried to be more “dominant,” I’m not sure that lens fits well. It’s easier to describe the dynamic as “playful.” Usually I would do something to see how she reacted and then determine what to do from there. Seeing her react to things was fun for me — a dynamic that carried over outside of sex as well. And she would playfully try to “instruct” me: admonish me or tell me to do something. That also is something she and SEIs in general like to do in normal life. I might try to get around her “orders” but liked when she asserted herself; the more assertive she was the more reluctant I was to disobey. But sometimes I would just break out of the dynamic and assert myself if I thought things were getting boring. So there was back-and-forth.

I really like to be “led” and to give the other person pleasure as they want. But I also don’t like to feel that things are boring or stagnant, so I might act to make things more interesting.

[MissDucki]

I would expect the exact dynamics to play out differently for each Ne type. From talking with an ILE, I get the impression his experience is fairly different, but don’t know enough to be able to elaborate more.

But from my own experience with an Si type: besides occasional times when one of us tried to be more “dominant,” I’m not sure that lens fits well. It’s easier to describe the dynamic as “playful.” Usually I would do something to see how she reacted and then determine what to do from there. Seeing her react to things was fun for me — a dynamic that carried over outside of sex as well. And she would playfully try to “instruct” me: admonish me or tell me to do something. That also is something she and SEIs in general like to do in normal life. I might try to get around her “orders” but liked when she asserted herself; the more assertive she was the more reluctant I was to disobey. But sometimes I would just break out of the dynamic and assert myself if I thought things were getting boring. So there was back-and-forth.

Speaking personally, I like to be “led” and to give the other person pleasure as they want. But I also don’t like to feel that things are boring or stagnant, so I might act to make things more interesting.

Spot on. Basically this. I will say, I am a little reluctant at first to 'order' LII or ILE around until I feel comfortable and they react well to it and encourage it. But that is more so a personal thing tho.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Spot on. Basically this. I will say, I am a little reluctant at first to 'order' LII or ILE around until I feel comfortable and they react well to it and encourage it. But that is more so a personal thing tho.

Have you had experience with infantiles? Is there anything you can think to add about their or your own attitude/actions? Didn’t see your previous post; apologies.

[MissDucki]

Have you had experience with infantiles? Is there anything you can think to add about their or your own attitude/actions? Didn’t see your previous post; apologies.

Lol I did but, I would like to add a bit of the Si perspective in regards to 'play fighting'. I love to tease and loved to be teased. There is so much fun in bantering back and forth with infantile. Lots of button pushing and yielding. Very childlike and playful in both inside and outside the bedroom. I had an ILE respond well when I would use his full name and get a bit naggy for some reason lol. Surprised me cause I don't usually get such a positive respond. Or that they want me to be in charge and be assertive. I am usually taking care of everybody else's needs so I don't always focus on mine as much and it's like they genuinely want me to be a bit selfish in that aspect which surprises me. I've had one close experience with an infantile for a short time but, I would do things a bit differently by letting that side naturally show more next time and be more selfish lol.
The only big issues for me is when button pushing goes too far. Sometimes, Ive just had them cross the line even when I have expressed a cease fire. I think a lot of the time I am often very expressive so I don't think they always realize the emotional crossing. Other then that, I find it a lot of fun!

[FreelancePoliceman]

I would do things a bit differently by letting that side naturally show more next time and be more selfish lol.

My ex was the same, having difficulty being "selfish." But I really like my partner to be! And she didn't really like it if I tried to be "selfish" myself; I suspect that'd also be the case for other SEI.

The only big issues for me is when button pushing goes too far. Sometimes, Ive just had them cross the line even when I have expressed a cease fire. I think a lot of the time I am often very expressive so I don't think they always realize the emotional crossing.

Yep, I agree this can be a problem. I would guess that being assertive and not being afraid to be "mean" sometimes should help. From my perspective it was difficult sometimes to know whether it was just joking or serious.

[Stray Cat]

I would not say that the Si caregiver is 'dominate' and the Ne infantile is the 'submissive. Like @necrosebud mentioned, the Si caregiver more so 'takes the lead'. Have you ever tried to control an infantile? LOL it is not going to happen Unlike victims, the worse thing you can do to an infantile is make them 'choose' or 'contain them. Especially in regards to seduction. IMO The Caregiver rather takes the lead on where the infantile wants to go sensation wise. Si is all about personal and internal sensations and since infantile are very receptive to it, I would think they would be more reactive of the Si caregiver taking the lead and showing them where to get the most bang for their buck so to speak. I think the roles may switch once the infantile gets comfortable and start using the Ne possibilities to show more options or alternatives. In the sense, Ne wants to try this possibility, gives the vision, and the Si can envision the sensation and make it happen. The roles tend to not be concrete, rather more so taking turns leading and following rather then dominating and submitting. That is how I would envision it theory wise and what I would rather have personally.

I would expect the exact dynamics to play out differently for each Ne type. From talking with an ILE, I get the impression his experience is fairly different, but don’t know enough to be able to elaborate more.

But from my own experience with an Si type: besides occasional times when one of us tried to be more “dominant,” I’m not sure that lens fits well. It’s easier to describe the dynamic as “playful.” Usually I would do something to see how she reacted and then determine what to do from there. Seeing her react to things was fun for me — a dynamic that carried over outside of sex as well. And she would playfully try to “instruct” me: admonish me or tell me to do something. That also is something she and SEIs in general like to do in normal life. I might try to get around her “orders” but liked when she asserted herself; the more assertive she was the more reluctant I was to disobey. But sometimes I would just break out of the dynamic and assert myself if I thought things were getting boring. So there was back-and-forth.

I really like to be “led” and to give the other person pleasure as they want. But I also don’t like to feel that things are boring or stagnant, so I might act to make things more interesting.

Cool, man. Good responses. Ne is my role but it juxtaposes my Se lead. When my mirage and I flirt, I go Ne but my instinct is to dominate through Se. My guess is, during a convo, my attitude will alternate between Ne & Se. I haven't really asked her if I've confused her but the ultimate goal is to have a good time anyway. People might suggest that I just use Se but that's a lame as fuck take. Getting decent at the role function, while being myself and seducing this chick is pretty ace.

[PinKDiGiT18]

Cool, man. Good responses. Ne is my role but it juxtaposes my Se lead. When my mirage and I flirt, I go Ne but my instinct is to dominate through Se. My guess is, during a convo, my attitude will alternate between Ne & Se. I haven't really asked her if I've confused her but the ultimate goal is to have a good time anyway. People might suggest that I just use Se but that's a lame as fuck take. Getting decent at the role function, while being myself and seducing this chick is pretty ace.

Mirage is viewed in the books as a lightweight intertype, but so far has the SEI been more fun than other types?

[Stray Cat]

Mirage is viewed in the books as a lightweight intertype, but so far has the SEI been more fun than other types?

Brief reply: SEI are my second favorite type at a close psychological distance for me personally

In other words...

I view relationships different cause I'm aware of what irritates me at a close psychological distance

- I don't favor rationals (even in own quadra)
- I don't favor extraverts
- I self supply my Ni DS well enough to make wise choices
- My Fi polr is shit. IEI & SEI got Fi demo
- Fe creative is pretty awesome

I probably wouldn't live with an Si-dom but this chick and I have matching subtypes, adore animals, discussing movies/documentaries, books and going on thrilling travels together.

You once mentioned Si/Ne get oriented toward needs & that Se/Ni get oriented toward goals. That's actually been helpful in this relationship.

[The Reality Denialist]

Have you ever tried to control an infantile?

My mother wrote that if this happened I made everything exactly backwards since I was a little kid and then I was very sneaky.

[Stray Cat]

If one buys into the energy model it is the HA and the Polr in which people have trouble investing energy. Cause of that, the most exotic partners you might pursue could be those who easily engage in your HA and Polr functions. For me, I could read ways to invest in Ni better but I don't have the energy to read ways to invest in Fe better.

[MidnightWilderness]

Where attraction is a dynamic state to Ni+Se, it’s an adaptive state to Ne+Si. The Aggressor/Victim pair is oriented at meeting goals. The Infantile/Caregiver pair is oriented at meeting needs.

This is incorrect, both are oriented at meeting goals. Just in a different way... Also erotic attitudes aren't real, SEIs aren't caretakers or necessarily good at taking care of people physically, so their first inclination is not necessarily to help meet the needs of their partner...

[Baqer]

This is incorrect, both are oriented at meeting goals. Just in a different way... Also erotic attitudes aren't real, SEIs aren't caretakers or necessarily good at taking care of people physically, so their first inclination is not necessarily to help meet the needs of their partner...

Erotic attitudes are real, argue what you will whether they're part of specific functions or not. Fundamentally, if socionics has any merit in predicting ITR, then IEI's sure as hell should be victims and SLE's aggressors so that they're both happy together. It's one of the few things in socionics which you can see in people's relationships pretty easily.