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Thread: help me with my type? all help appreciated.

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    Default help me with my type? all help appreciated.

    Some information before I begin: My IV is sx/so, enneagram 6w5 and my tritype 614. Though, every now and then I type as eight. I've taken the sarkinova and my highest function was Ni-Te, Te-Ni second. On the michael-caloz my highest was Ni-Te and the second Ne-Fi. According to one typist I am ESI, and according to another I'm "Ni-dom incarnate." According to a large community when I was featured on a YT channel, I am "undoubtedly IEE," and according to another "adept typist" I am an ILE troll. Others tell me I'm a 'troll' to the Ne dom community. Shall I go on? I've taken a test from this site a bit ago and my results for function order was: Te-Ne-Ni-Si-Fe-Ti-Fi-Se. This is obviously incoherent. So, I have hopes that somebody will take their time to read my answers to a questionnaire I filled out with honesty (of which i am about to send). Any help or commentary will be majorly appreciated.
    1. What makes you respect individuals, groups, or organizations?



    I respect people when theyíre no BS, impartial when everyone, and dutiful. Now of course I like a bit of goofing around, but in the long run Iím looking to surround myself with like minded people who know when to get serious and when to Ďplay.í I need to note, though, that when I was younger I was the opposite, and because of how being lazy paid off, my goal today, in the present, is to be an entirely different person. My old self wouldnít recognize the new me. This mindset that I have was always trying to come out, but I shoved it down until it was no longer ignorable. Iíve always wanted to be the person whose on top of things, but I didnít become that person until I was slapped and beat down by otherwise ignorant decisions. I hope that makes sense.


    2. What kind of things turn you off about a person, a brand/company, or a particular environment?


    When a person spews pseudo-intellectual claims that have no evidence I can see and read for myself. Environment wise, I am immediately turned off when the people have a lack of morale and they show off/show out as if they want the whole world to watch. And linking back to what I said in the first segment, I donít like being around people who have ideologies completely different to mine. I can tolerate it, sure, but once it becomes a topic of discussion Iím asserting myself and putting my foot down. Iím not one to sit in silence when what I know as fact is being characterized as false.


    3. How good is your memory for detail, such as specific conversations you've had in the past, little tasks that need to get done, what you were doing the first time you heard a song or tried a food, etc?


    I have a nice short time memory. I remember little nuanced things important to me, like how somebody I liked eyes glistened on a particular day or how they smelt, but anything that is relative to me immediately leaves my memory as soon as it enters.


    4. What do you spend the most time thinking about - the past, the present, the future? Practical topics, logistical issues, relationships with people, theoretical concepts, issues of morality/ethics? Do you find yourself fixating on one thing, coming back to it, and trying to figure it out, or are you more prone to meandering through multiple tangentially related topics?


    For the first bit: Iím almost always thinking about the future. Iím a novel writer, and am therefore always thinking about what to add to my story, subconsciously picking up on little things in my environment that spark a lightbulb and give me that ďa-ha! This is perfect for my story,Ē moment. Iím almost always in my head compiling ideas for the future of my novel, and when Iím not planning Iím reading what Iíve already written and looking for things to delete and replace. Iím very sculpturous when it comes to detail in writing, and on average I can spend 3 hours perfecting two sentences. I donít just write whatever and call it a day without thorough consideration. Besides writing, though, I spend a great deal of time listening to music that makes me think of my future, or I daydream about my characters futures.


    5. Do you often daydream/space out? When you do daydream or fantasize, what kind of things do you imagine and think about?


    When I was younger I had MD (maladaptive daydreaming), and would almost always be in the point of view of a character, and would even wear things or put on a certain perfume that reminded me of a character. I still do this at times, but looking back, my obsession with living another life back then was rooted in having no connection with myself, not knowing who I was, and feeling as if the life I lived had nothing interesting in store for me. Now, I ďmergeĒ with a character simply because itís fun, and a way to express my ever growing imagination.


    6. Think about a topic or two you're really interested in and like having conversations about. Do you think you would generally have more fun talking about that topic with an enthusiastic, curious listener who asks lots of questions, or would you generally have more fun listening to an interesting person talk at length about it and answer your questions enthusiastically?


    I like to guide and teach, so Iíd rather speak with someone of minimum knowledge, but who of which wants to learn more.


    7. In the previous question, what topic(s) were you thinking about?


    Controversial topics like abortion, religion, criminals/criminal acts.


    8. If someone is doing something that you strongly disagree with, how likely are you to confront them about it? If you do confront them, how do you usually tend to do it? How does your answer change depending on your relationship with the person, and whether their actions directly affect you?


    I spoke earlier of standing my ground without a doubt. I donít care what ďrankĒ the person is, how well known they are, how popular they are, if theyíre speaking of something that is factually wrong Iím going to school them. For example, this isnít exactly pertaining to facts, but Iíve stood up for a girl who gets bullied in school, and I get bullied as well, but since I am indifferent to ďrankĒ and ďstatus quo,Ē I had no problem speaking to the ďpopular girlĒ about what she better not do again. And no, relationships to people do not affect my zero tolerance for BS. Iíve been frank with best friends, once could say even a little too frank. Because of how blunt I am, Iíve lost a good lot of friends, but I am indifferent to that. Iíd rather be friends with people who are willing to change and learn, than with people who are narrow minded.


    9. How interested are you in trying new things - traveling, trying strange and exotic foods, going on roller coasters, jumping out of airplanes, etc? Regardless of how interested you are, how willing would you be to do those things if someone asked you to? How often do you actually do things like that? Give examples.


    I am interested in all of these things, and I am a big fan of crazy roller coasters with big drops. And one day, I do plan to skydive. While it isnít often that I am able to have such adrenaline rushes, when the opportunity is presented Iím sure to take it up.


    10. What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one and how you would solve it.


    Bullying in school. Iíd solve this problem by simply enforcing harder punishments onto those that think bullying is funny.


    11. How would other people describe your demeanour? It may help to ask people you know. How emotional do you seem to people? How rational? Do you tend to be quiet and reserved, or more loud and talkative?


    There are two distinct opinions people have about me: 1. I know a lot, and teach well. 2. Iím arrogant and brutal. I wouldnít deny the brutal claim, but I am not arrogant. I am confident in my wisdom because I spend so much time perfecting it and seeking out sources that prove what I believe in is true. Concerning how emotional I come off, I'm generally stoic and awkward. On a good day Iím quiet, within my thoughts, and just attending work. On a bad day I can speak to others in a matter-a-factly and dismissive way. I also have a habit of staring at others with the intention of making them uncomfortable. On both good and bad days I look at people. Iím a people watcher. But on a good day I look respectfully and in awe and I put together a mental image of what I think theyíre like.


    12. In what areas of your life would you like help?


    Right now the main thing I need to work on is anger. I can lash out really easily, but the anger is connected to and a product of having a disorganized mind. A disorganized mind leads to stress, stress leads to being impulsive, and that leads to anger. Currently Iíve been okay, organized, but it remains a kryptonite. And before I became work oriented, I needed a push with getting started on work and managing time, but courtesy of my istp brother and esfj mother, managing time hasnít been an issue.


    13. Do you seem to choose your words carefully, or talk stream of consciousness, or do you sometimes think so fast you stumble trying to get all the words out? Do you tend to finish your sentences, or skip to the next sentence in the middle of the one you're saying, or skip to new topics entirely? Do you interrupt - if so, when and how often? How do you feel if someone interrupts you? How often do you feel like you have so much energy you can't sit still and need to be up and moving?


    This is a really good question as I have multiple answers. When in the proper environment, specifically one on one, I choose my words carefully. I talk slow because Iím formulating the perfect answer, and require elongated moments of silence if Iím asked something complex.


    However, if Iím around a large group of people I feel pressured to get out my answer on spot so the attention can be taken off of me. This results in me talking very fast, stuttering, and stumbling over words. But one on one, like I said, I talk slow and think about what I will say, but here and there I will still stutter. Not because of unease, as is the reason in public, but because Iím always thinking about so many thingsówhat was already said and how I said it, what I will say, how the person is responding based on their expressionsóand my brain can, I suppose, overload and malfunction. I prefer to plan what I will say, though, and before important conversations I make sure to have a plan.


    14. What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?


    I am very spiritual, Christian, and have at times become overwhelmed by the presence of God in my room. This makes me cry, and now that I think of it, the presence of God and the conviction of sin is really the only thing thatís made me cry besides a good song. Why? Well, because itís so raw and vulnerable. I struggle to point out my own flaws and emotions, and when God does it for me, it evokes a feeling in me that cannot exactly be explained. I am closest and most intimate with God, and I donít hold back the tears when confronted by Him. With others, though, I am emotionally shut off and have a habit of responding to vulnerable questions with laughing or smiling (of course, in an awkward way). And I pinch myself, focus on a specific object, or repeat words in my head to distract myself from crying.


    As I vaguely touched on earlier in the message, I didnít always know who I was, and this has affected my relationship with emotions. At face value I see them (my own) as deceptive, corny, over reactive, irrelevant, and the like. Today I see them as the gateway to connecting with myself, but I think it will always take effort to see my emotions because they are, for the most part, not in my conscious mind. I like to focus on the emotional states of others, and have always excelled at this. Simply looking at a stranger paints a picture in my mind as to what I know theyíre like, what hurts them, what makes them smile; and for fun sometimes, I find myself writing little biographies about peopleís lives and I send it to them. They say I was spot on.


    15. How hard is it for you to get out of bed in the morning, or get up after relaxing for a long time?

    Itís hard because sleeping is so relaxing, but I force myself to get out of bed with a reason to get up. The reasons are many, but mostly I get up so I can do my morning prayer time, and so I wonít feel like a lazy nobody that gets nothing done.


    16. Are you involved in any creative activities or projects? What are they and why do you like to do them? What are your goals in these areas? What have you felt most proud of or satisfied with? How likely are you to finish a particular project you start?


    As said earlier, I write, and sometimes I draw traditionally and paint digitally. It is always my characters that I draw. My goal is to publish a novel and become a published author, but drawing is just a fun side hobby. I feel proud of the fact that the novel Iím working on now, Iíve been working on for two years, and I feel accomplished with how my writing style has evolved since I started writing realistic fiction (when I was around 10). And I am determined to finish this particular project, but in no rush. With the first novel I started writing I wrote 400 pages, and then ditched the whole thing because I had no plan for the plot and realized I was spewing things that didnít connect or flow. This taught me an important lesson and now Iím taking things slow.


    17. What does your idea of "financial security" look like? How much do finances matter to you in general? (I realise finances are a necessary part of life so try not to take that angle in your answer if possible)


    I couldnít care less about money, but i do plan to have a comfortably paying job that will get me a small but aesthetically fitting house. Iíve been pressured to save up for a car as well, but I prefer the idea of walking to where I need to go or taking a bike, as it is a more direct experience with nature, and I like to take my time.


    18. In general, how difficult is it for you to relax/wind down after doing things?


    itís incredibly easy. I take a stoic approach to things, and donít find myself overly concerned with material or environmental demands. In the past I wasnít concerned at all, and I mean at all, but Iíve learned through experience to care a healthy amount. However, I will always be most concerned with whatís on my mind, what do I need to plan for to avoid mental stress, and whatís on my heart that's hindering me from intellectual and/or spiritual growth.


    19. How do you react if someone wrongs you? How easy is it to anger you?


    I can forgive them rather quickly. I may require a few days to calm down, but Iíve never held onto a grudge in my entire life, or hated anyone. Anger wise, almost anything can make me angry, but even that wonít cause me to hate anyone or shut them out of my life.


    20. Is it typical of you to try to see the good in people?


    To be honest, I have an obsession with seeing the bad in people first, but I see this as necessary and practical. I never jump into a friendship without analyzing the person's intentions first, and even after Iíve done that, I need to be sure their morals align with mine. I look out for flaws in everything and everyone, and then I point the flaws out to them.


    21. Do you ever tend to get caught up in your past mistakes?


    Yes, before I matured spiritually and mentally I had a habit of getting caught up in sensuous experiences. I was concerned with what would bring me pleasure, and not with what would help me learn more and increase in wisdom. Now, I am self-abnegating. It is not what my fleshly body wants that matters, what my heart desires on instinct, but what my soul wants. More than anything, I (the soul) desire fruitful ethics and asceticism.


    22. If you believe something strongly, how do you approach a belief system that entirely conflicts with your own?


    I offer all the evidence I have, leaving the other belief system in a position of futility.


    23. How organized are you, both mentally and environmentally?


    I like to have my environment organized because then my mind can be. I donít know exactly how to explain the correlation, but if my surroundings are organized so is my mind. I passionately believe in order and know that order is fundamentally necessary for society to thrive, and my mind is ordered, thinking about practical things.


    24. Define your core ideology and why you hold it. This can be religious, political, mundane, etc.


    All in all, my core ideologies are asceticism, existentialism, platonism, and legalism. I reject the corrupt ideology of liberalism, and uphold tradition. The way things once were, they should remain unless morally unfit. Knowledge should be pursued, but only if practical. Give me something I can use. I donít want knowledge for knowledge's sake, nor do I want to build a house on the sand. There is no ďmaybeĒ or ďprobably,Ē it either is or is not. Stability and logical reasoning are a must.


    (end)

    I must mention that after reading PT, I typed myself ILI and do agree with the results I got on tests. However, I am here to either verify or debunk that claim with substantial evidence as to why or why not. Since, apparently, I value Fi and Si too much. Thank you.

  2. #2
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    you wasted a LOT of time posting this, people on this forum have 0 idea and you souldn't trust anything they pull out of their ass, including anything I or even what Jack has to say about your type.

    You are welcome >3, I just saved you months of butthurt and annoying confusion.

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    video is important
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1096450

    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    you wasted a LOT of time posting this, people on this forum have 0 idea and you souldn't trust anything
    Yep, almost all people on forums have no good typing skills and many ones have bad typology understanding.
    Though, there is no objective to think someone as good in a typing today. Just experienced ones and which lesser use baseless theories should identify types better.

    A random noob @shotgunfingers and his opinions in not an exception from the general situation.
    This one is also upset that not many ones on this forum agree in his type as LSI (goten by non-Socionics nonsense of Gulenko), as he may to have it ILE. Besides local opinions, he got ILE also by a test/tests based on his selfperception. And among several types he wrote in his profile before seems never were J and mb S. The mess in his head is also noticable in claming as having in the same time J (LSI) and P (ISTP/SLI) types.

    There are many people with mistakes in own types. Do not trust much what people, especially noobs, think about own types and types of others.

    > Te-Ne-Ni-Si-Fe-Ti-Fi-Se. This is obviously incoherent.

    this points on good chance to have N type
    Last edited by Sol; 04-15-2021 at 07:34 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    To be honest I'm not sure what you want our help for. It sounds to me like you know yourself pretty well and hold quite firm opinions about most things. It's important to remember that nobody knows you better than you know yourself no matter how good at typing they are. It almost feels like you wrote this intending for us to simply confirm your belief that you're Ni & Te ego (which is base I'm not sure at a glance though I lean towards thinking you're Ni base). If those elements resonate with you so strongly why even bother asking us? Though it's possible you could be projecting Ni and Te values because you want people to type in that direction I'd rather take your self-description at face value.

    If I go through your descriptions about your self via process of elimination it is clear that you do not value Fe-Ti at all. You have very decided moral stances on everything and it sounds like you have very particular responses to perceived transgressions which I interpret as clearly valued Te-Fi. The heavy focus on morality which you derive from your spiritual beliefs combined with your bluntness and apparent valuing of evidence and readily verifiable fact over "pseudo-intellectual" nonsense looks very much like Creative function Te with Fi Hidden Agenda. Given you seem to take a "narrowing down" approach to things (as demonstrated by you choosing your words very carefully, formulating "perfect" answers, seeking singular solid truths, etc), as well as the way you appear to view time as a very fluid thing and also tend towards focusing on the future, combined with the total absence of anything in your descriptions which would indicate Si I think we can say with confidence you are someone with Ni-Se as valued elements. Even if you aren't ILI/INTp as I believe you to be, I would be very surprised if you turned out not to be a gamma type of some flavour.

    I'd like to sort of reiterate in closing that I don't really think anyone can type anybody with confidence online. All I have to go off of is the self that you presented to me and my typing of you can't possibly be any more accurate than you were honest with us and yourself. Don't let me tell you what type you are by any means, but if I am forced to make my best guess I say ILI.

    Let me know how I did! (^-^)

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    @shotgunfingers I don't see how that's supposed to be any help to OP. They requested typing assistance, not personal opinions about other forum users' typing capabilities

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    Quote Originally Posted by AWellArmedCat View Post
    @shotgunfingers I don't see how that's supposed to be any help to OP. They requested typing assistance, not personal opinions about other forum users' typing capabilities
    personal opinions the facts

    you will come to see things my way with time and experience..

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    @shotgunfingers lol alrighty then

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    Maybe a weird LIE or a really weird LSE. Therefore likely Harmonizing subtype because strengthened Si, Ni, as well as strengthened POLR (either Si or Ni if Te lead).
    The whole tradition and religion stuff reminds me of LSE, but the religiousness also gives me a gamma Ni vibe. My dad is ILI and extremely religious.

    >Knowledge should be pursued, but only if practical. Give me something I can use. I don’t want knowledge for knowledge's sake, nor do I want to build a house on the sand. There is no “maybe” or “probably,” it either is or is not.
    This sums up Te-leads pretty well. The last sentence is not something an ILI or any perceiving type would say, because p types are generally fine dealing with uncertainties.

    The more I read the things you typed the more I get LSE vibes. Maybe the religion stuff gets you high scores on Ni but any type can be religious right? The whole thing about practicality, organization, etc. you mention doesn't seem so much LIE but LSE.

    >For the first bit: I’m almost always thinking about the future. I’m a novel writer, and am therefore always thinking about what to add to my story, subconsciously picking up on little things in my environment that spark a lightbulb and give me that “a-ha! This is perfect for my story,” moment. I’m almost always in my head compiling ideas for the future of my novel, and when I’m not planning I’m reading what I’ve already written and looking for things to delete and replace. I’m very sculpturous when it comes to detail in writing, and on average I can spend 3 hours perfecting two sentences. I don’t just write whatever and call it a day without thorough consideration. Besides writing, though, I spend a great deal of time listening to music that makes me think of my future, or I daydream about my characters futures.
    Here for instance I don't get high-dimensional Ni vibes, sure, you focus a lot on the future but it has a very 'tangible' application to it, your novels, your characters, etc. At least I think an LIE when prompted about that past-present-future question they'd mention both past and future/all three (because Ni being the Time function is kinda all-encompassing in its analysis of time). And those LIE who are only future-oriented are like REALLY future oriented (planning things 10-20 years down the line rather than near future).

    So maybe LSE-H or LIE-H. I can't see ILI at all, my dad is ILI-Te and pretty much nothing like you hahah. ILI are kinda soft and wishy-washy even though they like to put up a tough act (Ni leads in general are like that). In fact I'd take my hat off the day I saw a Ni lead standing their ground like you do lol. Standing your ground without doubts generally implies strong Se (valued or unvalued). So another point in favor of LSE.

    Oh and ESI/IEE/ILE completely discarded. Your Fi seems low+valued (Te-ego). Meanwhile the high Ne scores you got are probably MBTI misconceptions about "Future = Ne". Ne is more about diverging possibilities and potentials of things. Not sure where they got those types but they're extremely off the mark lol.

    Just some thoughts.

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    @sahcisn with my previous warning in mind: obvious LSI, possible subtype N/D.

    Reasons: overall logical type. Your Fe is terrible but you have a stronger Fi that is rather black and white. (I relate). Your sensing in general is obvious with good use of both Se and Si, from your description it seems you are a central quadra type aka Se preference, but its not as dominant as a base Se type such as SEE or SLE would be. Ne is rather limited even with the creative writing it seems, you do seem to have a need for Ni however. (I thought I was ILI as well). Se-Ni axis is obvious over Si-Ne. Overall however you subjugate Se to Ti and your Si is stronger than Se. Your Ti is rather strong considering all the external systems you are attached to, which is normal for a type 6 (I relate).

    With all this imo you are either a normalizing N or dominant D LSI. 6w5 seems accurate. Type 1 or 8 as gut depends on how you experience anger, as irritation and frustration (1) or rage (8). I'm the latter mostly and its not easy as a 6 to deal with my anger. If I were an 8 I'd be able to control and focus that better.

    Thats my 2 cents.

    >) - Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire -



    For reference, here some decent information element descriptions you rarely find in english socionics spaces:

    Types of information that relate to each aspect according to other Russian sources:

    White sensing Si : sensations, tastes, smells, well-being, tactile sensations;
    Black sensing Se : power, influence, abilities, authority, status, capital and money, resources, strength, endurance.
    White intuition Ni : trends, changes and the likelihood of events.
    Black intuition Ne : ideas, options for events
    White logic Ti : causes of phenomena, patterns and structure of something.
    Black logic Te : consequences of phenomena, technologies and skills.
    White ethics Fi : relationships between people (friend / foe, love / hate) and the assessment of something in principle (tasteful / tasteless, pleasant / unpleasant).
    Black ethics Fe : reactions to objects and events (laughter, crying, anger) and behaviors (giving gifts, greeting when meeting)

    Aspect "black sensing" Si

    The aspect of emergency situations includes, in a broad sense, information about the impact, that is, about how some material objects or phenomena can affect others. Its source is the material world. In addition to information about the direct perceived impact, this aspect can also include information about the potential impact (for example, I know that I am stronger than this person, so I can do him more harm than he does me).

    Emergency is an irrational, static, extroverted aspect. This means that we receive information about influences from the material world directly, and do not create it with the help of the psyche. The impact can be felt by yourself or by observing the world. At the same time, information about influences is abstract and not concrete, in contrast to information about sensations. This is the secondary nature of the emergency aspect with respect to the BS. For example, if something heavy falls on our foot, then our pain and other tactile sensations from this will relate to the BS aspect, and information that a negative impact has occurred that can cause harm and violate the integrity of the body is already an aspect of emergency. Another example: health as well-being, lack of discomfort is information on the aspect of BS, and health as a force, the ability to influence the world is already information on emergency situations.

    IMPORTANT: They often try to refer to the aspect of emergency situations as certain properties and inclinations of a person - his aggressiveness, authority, ability to subjugate people, a positive attitude towards violence. This is all fundamentally WRONG, since the emergency aspect itself is non-judgmental (i.e. it is just information about the impact, but not about how you like to influence and whether you like it at all). For example, when we build houses or protect the weak, this is also a certain impact on the world. Impact entails a change in the properties of objects, but does not necessarily imply destruction - it may well be a constructive action.

    Aspect "white sensing" Se

    The BS aspect includes information about those sensations that we receive through the senses. This is everything we see and hear, as well as tastes, smells and tactile sensations. This also includes information about our physical well-being - for example, if we are in pain, then this is information on the BS. Accordingly, the source of this information for us is the material world and material objects in it.

    BS is an irrational, dynamic, introverted aspect. This means that we perceive information on BS directly from the world, and do not synthesize with the help of the psyche. The information on the BS can be specified, that is, it can be identified in space and time (“at this moment I hear a sharp sound”).

    IMPORTANT: The BS aspect does not include: human skills and abilities (be able to cook, be able to dress harmoniously); people's preferences (love to eat, wallow on the couch); abstract concepts (quality, reliability).


    Aspect "white intuition" Ni

    This is an interesting aspect, which is attributed to almost mystical properties. Either he is responsible for the ability to foresight, then he determines the luck of a person (a good combination of circumstances). It's actually much more mundane.

    As we remember, the source of intuitive information is what happens to the world. The BI aspect includes information about specific changes in the surrounding world, which we can observe directly. We can say that BI is a transition from one BS information to another. Just now it was cold for us, and now it is warm - this change of the material world (“warmed up”) is the information of the BI aspect.

    Of course, this can manifest itself more globally - for example, information on BI can be obtained by observing how epochs change, political regimes collapse and are built, different periods pass in the life of a person and society. Also, based on white-intuitive information, we can see various trends in the world around us (that is, to distinguish between recurring events). An example of such a tendency: a sound repeating at regular intervals is a rhythm. Based on trends, future events can also be predicted, which is why BI is often described as an aspect responsible for predictions.

    We remember that BI is an irrational, dynamic and introverted aspect. This is manifested in the fact that we perceive information on the BI aspect directly from the world through observation. White intuition includes specific changes in the material world that can be determined in space and time. Also, this aspect is primary, since we do not need additional information in order to interact with it.

    At the same time, it is worth remembering that the aspect of white intuition DOES NOT RELATE : magic, predictions, daydreaming, a tendency to fantasize, esotericism, focus on one's inner world, self-absorption and other inexplicable phenomena and personal qualities of a person.

    Aspect "black intuition" Ne

    This aspect seems to be more understandable than BI, but many myths are also associated with it. The most famous of them are: “CHI is the essence of phenomena”, “CHI is a person's talents and abilities”, “CHI is an assessment of prospects”.

    I hope you understand how absurd and unattached to reality these formulations are. CHI is an aspect of information, therefore it describes information that exists in nature, and not the qualities of people and their skills. To be precise, the source of information on CHI is the events that happen and can happen in the world. This is the so-called "space of options" - everything that was, is, and can be. Moreover, the aspect of CHI itself is not associated with understanding the probability of one or another event (this is already the sphere of the aspect of BI, which is responsible for the vision of trends), these are options “in their pure form”, both real and unreal. Perception of information on the aspect of CHI allows you to invent alternative realities, come up with new ideas, see different ways out of the situation.

    At the same time, it is wrong to say that QI helps to assess a person's talent and his inner potential, since QI is information about events, and not about material objects (people). Well, if we consider the assessment of how likely the option is, where a person is realized and will achieve success, then this is BI (forecasting).

    You can also see that QI is described as the perception of a holistic picture of the world, and this is somewhat correct, since the QI aspect includes information about events as integral “pictures” (this is determined by the property of being static). However, these events can be both real and fictional. But to associate QI with understanding the essence of “without thinking” is fundamentally wrong, since understanding is always associated with the interpretation of the information received (and this is a sign of rational aspects). Here, the CHI aspect is attributed to the characteristics of the BL aspect, which we will talk about next. CHI, on the other hand, is an irrational aspect, and we simply “see” information on CHI, so to speak.

    Also, CHI is an extroverted aspect, which means that it is secondary to the BI aspect. Indeed, in order to form a complete picture of the event, we need to build on those specific changes that we can observe. To represent an alternative event, you need to imagine the entire set of changes in the world that must occur for it to happen.

    Aspect "white ethics" Fi

    The BE aspect includes, first of all, information about estimates. “This is good”, “I like it”, “this is what I want” or “this is bad”, “it repels me”, “I want to avoid it” - these are all our assessments, or, to put it differently, our relation to various objects and events. Our values ​​are also formed on the basis of assessments (what is important for us and what we are indifferent to, what is desirable or unacceptable for us).

    You can often hear that information about human relationships refers to BE, and in a sense this is true, because people's relationships are their mutual assessment of each other. “This is a close, important, good person”, “this is a bad, hypocritical, vile person”, “this person is indifferent to me”. But your behavior in relationships is no longer related to BE information, as it manifests itself in specific actions (that is, this is dynamic information).

    White ethics is a rational aspect. Accordingly, information on BE is formed in the process of interpreting the information that we receive through the aspects of sensing and intuition. For example, we see some changes in the world and determine whether they are good or bad for us. Or we perceive the sensations, and draw a conclusion whether they are pleasant for us or not.

    Estimates, attitudes, values ​​are abstract concepts, and we can understand a person's attitude only through the reactions that he shows, generalizing them. Despite this, the assessment is primary, and it causes certain behavioral reactions (for example, if a person likes someone, he will often call or offer to meet). This is how the properties of static and introversion are manifested.

    And, of course, BE as an aspect does not determine the moral qualities of a person, his kindness, good manners, and ethics. BE is related to morality, since morality is a system of values, but the characteristics of IM does not depend on which moral norms will be closer to a person.


    Aspect "black ethics" Fe

    The CHE aspect includes information about how we show our attitude to something in the outside world. These are our reactions, actions, behavior in general. For example, if a person is unpleasant to us, we ignore him, avoid him or communicate with him coolly. If a person is pleasant to us, then we do everything to interact with him more often, start a conversation, show affection. This is black ethical information.

    The ChE aspect is rational, dynamic and extroverted. How are these properties manifested? First, the reactions and actions of a person are regulated by his psyche, and are based on his interpretation of information about the world around him. Secondly, human reactions can always be concretized in space and time. Third, behavior is secondary to our relationship to something. First, we give an assessment to a phenomenon or an object, and then we decide how we should behave in accordance with our assessments.

    The most important MYTH about black ethics is that CHE is a person's emotions. However, if we proceed from the fact that socionics studies information, then it is easy to conclude that emotions are not information in themselves. This is just the state in which we are and experience within ourselves. But various emotional manifestations such as laughter, tears, smile, etc. may well be attributed to information on the SE aspect. According to them, we can determine the attitude of a person to the situation.

    Aspect "white logic" Ti

    As practice shows, most people have a more or less adequate understanding of this aspect, but in addition to the main meaning, many additional ones are attributed to it, which clog the theoretical part of socionics.

    So, we said earlier that logical information is information about cause-and-effect relationships. In this case, specifically information about the causes of the phenomena relates to the BL aspect. It would also be correct to say that information about patterns also applies to this aspect, because the causes of events are the laws according to which the world functions. And, accordingly, it can be argued that BL is information about how the world works.

    The aspect of white logic is limited to this. But often other concepts are also referred to BL, such as structures, classifications, schemes, hierarchy, systems, order, law (in the legal sense), truth, justice, etc., without any theoretical justification. In this case, it misses the main essence of the aspect, and the BL aspect is linked to randomly selected concepts that are not connected by a single unifying property.

    Therefore, remember that BL is:

    - the reasons;
    - patterns;
    - world structure.

    And this is an exhaustive description of this aspect.

    White logic is a rational aspect, accordingly, information on BL (information about causes and patterns) is born after we interpret sensory and intuitive information. For example, we see that objects fall to the ground, and we come to the conclusion that the reason for this is the law of attraction.

    Also BL is a static aspect, which manifests itself in its abstractness. To highlight the patterns of what is happening, you always need to abstract from specific details and see something in common, not tied to a specific moment.

    In addition, the BL aspect is introverted, which means that it is primary relative to the CL aspect. The functioning of the world is based on patterns, and their particular manifestations are a consequence of their existence.


    Aspect "black logic" te

    As already mentioned, BL is information about the reasons. As you might guess, information about the consequences belongs to the aspect of CL. What are “consequences”? These are particular manifestations of the laws of the existence of the world. There is a law of attraction - this is the cause, and the fact that specific objects fall to the ground under the influence of this law is already a consequence. This example clearly shows why the aspect of CL is secondary to the aspect of BL (the “extraversion” property).

    However, it is also true that we can deduce general patterns only when we collect enough information about their particular manifestations in our everyday life. Regularities are derived from observations of reality by means of generalization and abstraction. This is how the property “dynamism” works: CHL is always concretized information.

    The other side of the definition of black logic is that if we understand what will follow our actions (example: if I press this button, the computer turns off), we can form a certain technology. Technology is a way of achieving the desired result (or obtaining the desired consequence of our actions).

    Since CL is a rational aspect, information on it is not perceived directly from the world, but is formed in the course of the interpretation of sensory and intuitive information. So, if we watch the clouds thicken and then the rain begins, then the conclusion is formed: the rain is a consequence of the thickening of the clouds.
    Last edited by SGF; 04-16-2021 at 12:37 PM.

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    @sahcisn Comments:

    Te-Ne-Ni-Si-Fe-Ti-Fi-Se. This is obviously incoherent.
    It says LIE or ILI (strongest fxns are lead and demo = Te and Ne in LIE) the Si as 3rd maybe could suggest role Si (ILI) instead, but there's less of a case for it. If you wanted to use just the one test of course. But yeah, it's not as incoherent as it might seem at first. The other tests suggest ILI. All in all, the tests as a whole point towards gamma NT.

    Nothing else stood out until you said that you had maladaptive daydreaming, and I had to look that up because I've never heard of it before. It sounds like excessive Ni? Only excessive because of the label "maladaptive" . . . as in everything described sounds pretty normal except that it apparently interferes with real life. So, it's basically a strong favoring of Ni over everything else. It also reminds me of something in an ILI description . . . forget the exact wording but something like, if an EIE can put on a character, the ILI really becomes the character. Ni can slip you out of yourself, and out of reality itself in a way nothing else can.

    The next thing that stood out to me was:
    I can lash out really easily, but the anger is connected to and a product of having a disorganized mind. A disorganized mind leads to stress, stress leads to being impulsive, and that leads to anger. Currently I’ve been okay, organized, but it remains a kryptonite. And before I became work oriented, I needed a push with getting started on work and managing time, but courtesy of my istp brother and esfj mother, managing time hasn’t been an issue.
    I don't quite understand? What does it mean to have an organized or disorganized mind in your opinion, and why would the latter lead to anger? Why is it a kryptonite?

    BTW, I may or may not be around to respond. I really only wanted to comment about the result not actually being incoherent, but figured I should probably read the rest too. So, you don't have to answer my questions or anything, and I apologize in advance if I don't follow up. Maybe this will provide some food for thought that you can build on either way.

    Other comments: the planning what you say speaks either to rationality or a rational subtype. Introversion mixed in there too.

    Simply looking at a stranger paints a picture in my mind as to what I know they’re like, what hurts them, what makes them smile; and for fun sometimes, I find myself writing little biographies about people’s lives and I send it to them. They say I was spot on.
    This is interesting. Humans in general have templates that we pull up to measure new people by, and that may be part of what you're doing, and it's something most people I think do to one degree or another, but this stands out "what hurts them, what makes them smile" and then even going as far as accurate biographies takes more than just a template. Most useful for this exercise would probably be Ni plus Fi. I think.

    These kinds of statements always make me think someone is Te valuing. That may be wrong, but I still think it:
    Knowledge should be pursued, but only if practical. Give me something I can use. I don’t want knowledge for knowledge's sake.
    Why you gotta be so serious? Never just read something because it's interesting? It also seems kind of funny to me for someone on a socionics site to say. I mean, some people I guess find some use for this stuff, and sometimes I pretend like socionics is useful someway . . . but idk, I actually don't know how it is. And then this
    There is no “maybe” or “probably,” it either is or is not.
    Sigh. Is it though? Many things live in the probablies and maybes, many things are unsure and unknown, and unknowable. Can any human know everything, how much lays beyond even our capability to know and understand, how much knowledge is beyond our reach? It sounds like hubris to me to assume you can pin it all down so neatly.

    And in conclusion, your self-typing of ILI seems to work out fine. Another option would weirdly be IEI and even EII, because there's an odd amount of Fi mixed in with your Ni. Or so it seems. And huh, yeah, nevermind. It's interesting though the things people choose to focus on and think about - you seem a bit too rigid in your Te for an ILI . . . idk what that's about. Anyway, I'm going to be annoying, and say, ah who knows, maybe, could be something or another. Oh HEY! Just had a thought . . . enneagram could be influencing that. K, will leave you to your own devices now. Good luck.
    Last edited by squark; 04-18-2021 at 12:35 PM. Reason: fixing typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    It says LIE or ILI
    For assured T is needed both T be at high places and both F at low ones. It's not well expressed there.
    Writing style is P.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    For assured T is needed both T be at high places and both F at low ones. It's not well expressed there.
    Writing style is P.
    Assured perhaps, but not for a ballpark suggestion, and relative placement fits well enough. Tests are based on self-assessment after all. I do think that your usual suggestion of a video is probably more useful for typing seriously. Sometimes what a person puts down on paper is quite different from who they present to the world.

    The writing little biographies of people and giving them to the people, and a few other things came across as more ethical-based to me, so there's doubt. I was looking for the umbrella that catches the most at once. The heretical approach you so dislike =) catches the most probably with ILI-N, covering the tests, self-reported Si, the black/white rigid viewpoint while still allowing an excess of Ni and additional Fi to show up. But all of that is still just a guess based on what was written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Banana King View Post
    Maybe a weird LIE or a really weird LSE. Therefore likely Harmonizing subtype because strengthened Si, Ni, as well as strengthened POLR (either Si or Ni if Te lead).
    The whole tradition and religion stuff reminds me of LSE, but the religiousness also gives me a gamma Ni vibe. My dad is ILI and extremely religious.

    >Knowledge should be pursued, but only if practical. Give me something I can use. I don’t want knowledge for knowledge's sake, nor do I want to build a house on the sand. There is no “maybe” or “probably,” it either is or is not.
    This sums up Te-leads pretty well. The last sentence is not something an ILI or any perceiving type would say, because p types are generally fine dealing with uncertainties.

    The more I read the things you typed the more I get LSE vibes. Maybe the religion stuff gets you high scores on Ni but any type can be religious right? The whole thing about practicality, organization, etc. you mention doesn't seem so much LIE but LSE.

    >For the first bit: I’m almost always thinking about the future. I’m a novel writer, and am therefore always thinking about what to add to my story, subconsciously picking up on little things in my environment that spark a lightbulb and give me that “a-ha! This is perfect for my story,” moment. I’m almost always in my head compiling ideas for the future of my novel, and when I’m not planning I’m reading what I’ve already written and looking for things to delete and replace. I’m very sculpturous when it comes to detail in writing, and on average I can spend 3 hours perfecting two sentences. I don’t just write whatever and call it a day without thorough consideration. Besides writing, though, I spend a great deal of time listening to music that makes me think of my future, or I daydream about my characters futures.
    Here for instance I don't get high-dimensional Ni vibes, sure, you focus a lot on the future but it has a very 'tangible' application to it, your novels, your characters, etc. At least I think an LIE when prompted about that past-present-future question they'd mention both past and future/all three (because Ni being the Time function is kinda all-encompassing in its analysis of time). And those LIE who are only future-oriented are like REALLY future oriented (planning things 10-20 years down the line rather than near future).

    So maybe LSE-H or LIE-H. I can't see ILI at all, my dad is ILI-Te and pretty much nothing like you hahah. ILI are kinda soft and wishy-washy even though they like to put up a tough act (Ni leads in general are like that). In fact I'd take my hat off the day I saw a Ni lead standing their ground like you do lol. Standing your ground without doubts generally implies strong Se (valued or unvalued). So another point in favor of LSE.

    Oh and ESI/IEE/ILE completely discarded. Your Fi seems low+valued (Te-ego). Meanwhile the high Ne scores you got are probably MBTI misconceptions about "Future = Ne". Ne is more about diverging possibilities and potentials of things. Not sure where they got those types but they're extremely off the mark lol.

    Just some thoughts.
    my apologies if i format this weirdly i have no clue how to work this site. There's most certainly a high value for an Xe function in me, but I'm not sure where you got the impression that I lead an Xe function. Reading the ESTp description in depth, the only thing that stood out to me as accurate was being practical and appreciating practical methods. However I am not warm and cordial in any sense if i'm being honest (referring to the Fe function) and I don't agree with most folkways and "proper manners." Maybe I should have been clearer in my initial message and touched on my use of Fe, but the only time i really use Fe is when I'm giving advice to someone on how to improve their mentality. But I'm not even sure that that's proper Fe. On to the Ti function, I don't uphold my own take on information as a Ti user would, I accept it as it is if it has a practical use and reads as being logical. Now, with that Se lead function, I am not in the moment with tangible things, per say, but in the moment of my visualization for future events and visualizing what I'll do. Most of what I do all day is daydream and write and read, and I have found that being 'present' causes me extreme mental strain and I feel as if i've lost myself. More than anything, my duty and my principles are valued and I touched on this in the initial message. I should also mention that I type as 6w5 in enneagram, 164 tritype, and IV is SX/SO. I've been pretty blind to SP most of my life, and that affected me, which is why I value SP today.

    Also, with almost every test I've taken that ranks types, ESTp has always been the least likely, so I find your analysis very odd, but appreciable nevertheless.

    Thank you for your response.
    stop just living and do something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sahcisn View Post
    my apologies if i format this weirdly i have no clue how to work this site. There's most certainly a high value for an Xe function in me, but I'm not sure where you got the impression that I lead an Xe function. Reading the ESTp description in depth, the only thing that stood out to me as accurate was being practical and appreciating practical methods. However I am not warm and cordial in any sense if i'm being honest (referring to the Fe function) and I don't agree with most folkways and "proper manners." Maybe I should have been clearer in my initial message and touched on my use of Fe, but the only time i really use Fe is when I'm giving advice to someone on how to improve their mentality. But I'm not even sure that that's proper Fe. On to the Ti function, I don't uphold my own take on information as a Ti user would, I accept it as it is if it has a practical use and reads as being logical. Now, with that Se lead function, I am not in the moment with tangible things, per say, but in the moment of my visualization for future events and visualizing what I'll do. Most of what I do all day is daydream and write and read, and I have found that being 'present' causes me extreme mental strain and I feel as if i've lost myself. More than anything, my duty and my principles are valued and I touched on this in the initial message. I should also mention that I type as 6w5 in enneagram, 164 tritype, and IV is SX/SO. I've been pretty blind to SP most of my life, and that affected me, which is why I value SP today.

    Also, with almost every test I've taken that ranks types, ESTp has always been the least likely, so I find your analysis very odd, but appreciable nevertheless.

    Thank you for your response.
    LSE is ESTj.
    Try reading ESTj-Te and ESTj-Si subtype descriptions to see which one matches you better.
    https://sociotype.com/socionics/type...ESTj/subtypes/

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