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Thread: LII vs. IEI

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    Default LII vs. IEI

    Ever since I got into Socionics I have been oscillating between LII-Ne and IEI-Ni and I don't know which one I am. People who know more than me about this have come to different conclusions.
    I seem to value both socio Ni and Ne, which is impossible, and I relate to both Te PoLR and Se PoLR.

    Here's a questionnaire I answered in order to be typed by someone: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...?usp=drivesdk/

    I have read all the Information Elements for both types on Wikisocion as well as descriptions of both types. I've also read up on the basics of each function.

    Feel free to ask me anything. Thanks in advance.

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    you seem F type
    a video is important
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1096450
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    I don't feel comfortable showing my face on the Internet

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    Why not ILI or EII?

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    Saludos, compatriota! Yo también soy de Argentina pero tuve la suerte de escaparme de ahí en plena pandemia.

    My first impression was LII. If that's the case then must've been tough for you to grow up in such a Beta country. The reason why I don't think you're IEI is that generally IEI are romantic (you describe yourself as nonromantic). Also, the way you type does not remind me of IEI. Their writing is all over the place, lots of imagery, etc. Yours is very well structured, and honestly amazingly good if English isn't your mother tongue (sorry if I'm making assumptions). Anyways the writing style very much reminds me of LII.

    >My main goal in life is to know as much as I possibly can about everything, both by reading books and by travelling the world/talking to different types of people from different places. I enjoy music, memes, physics, sci-fi/horror movies and books, and I spend 99% of my time on the Internet.
    Quite similar to myself lol. Alpha values maybe. The excessive focus on analysis/understanding along with your introvertedness would be more like LII.

    >It is hard for me to look inside myself and see who I am, so labels and descriptors help me find myself.
    Feels like something very Ti-ish to say, even weak Ni perhaps.

    >And I'm interested in typology because it helps me understand people better. Instead of every individual being their own person in this chaotic mess, we can analyze peoples' psyches and see patterns, what they have in common and what they don't, how they interact with each other; basically build a framework to see how their brains work. And I like learning how things work.
    I think exactly the same lol. Again frameworks/understanding/classification = Ti.

    >I like honesty, being listened to, and being emotionally supported. I also tend to like people with some edge or eccentricity to them. People who will say/do things that are unpredictable and will take me aback. This is because I like being surprised, it is exciting and stimulating.
    The first sentence feels like EII. But the rest is very perceiving, especially IP temperament. IJ and EJ value stability, do not like surprises, etc. So this is a point for IEI.

    >I wanted to be a theoretical physicist/cosmologist, but not long ago I quit my career and I am currently studying programming. In ideal circumstances I would be a musician, but like I said, financially it would not be wise, so I picked a STEM career that would allow me to leave the country and explore the world, which is what I wanna do. I also picked scientific research because I have an instinctive, visceral need to do something that matters, that transcends me. However, I found physics to be too difficult for me as well as too long of a career, and for personal reasons I decided it would be quicker for me to form myself as a programmer and be able to have some level of freedom of movement like I wanted to. Hopefully in the future I can mix both worlds and go into something like data science, as well as music.
    So LII fits better here than IEI mostly because I don't think an IEI would put themselves through the struggle of getting a stem degree to make money to obtain economic freedom and then do the stuff they like. They got the Ni to do it but they lack the Te simply for managing money effectively etc. Also IEI are very crafty for evading economic responsibilities so they would go straight down the artistic path instead and pray for the best lol.
    And also, your story is quite similar to mine. I got into STEM mostly for the money and being vaguely interested in computers lol. But originally I wanted to be a vagrant kinda dude traveling and living off of stock market speculation of course life ain't that easy, especially in a 3rd world country...

    >I am obsessed with time and understanding how it works. To me, past present and future are all part of one single entity that 3D beings can't fully view or understand.
    Very Ni-ish thing to say.

    >I pay zero attention to [efficiency and productivity] and often times need someone else to help me in those areas.
    Low Te thing to say.

    >I would say I am decent at handling money, without trying.

    And then a high Te thing to say.

    >My instinct is to improvise and adapt as I go.
    p type or irrational subtype such as LII-Ne

    >Freedom (I swear I'm not American), justice, truth. I cannot answer why, to me it's obvious. They are very important things for all humans to have.
    It's so weird that we both come from the same country and have the same values. In the exact same order lol. Perhaps these are country values rather than personality values. Sadly it's a country that lacks these three things, don't you think?


    >In the world we live in, money is freedom. The thing I value the most in this world is freedom, and so by extension I value money. I am aware, however, that it's an invented concept. I don't value money for the sake of it, but because I've seen what it's like to be without it.
    Dude this is literally exactly how I feel about money. Seriously its like somebody stole it from my own mind or something hahaha.

    Well honestly I don't know for sure. LII-Ne would make a lot of sense. You remind me a lot of myself a few years ago. Like very similar in terms of interests, values, etc. but also quite different in terms of attitude as I am a generally a carefree and positive dude. I don't think you are an F type. The extra flexibility you have that reminds me of perceiving types might be an indicator of irrational subtype. For the record, I used to score LII-Ne in socionics tests before. Eventually I settled for ILE as a type because I generally am extroverted and positivistic and have an easy time initiating contact which is not normal for LII lol.
    You should read descriptions of LII-Ne, IEI-Ni and even ILI-Ni to see which one works better for you. But I'd say like 80% chance you're LII. The irrational subtypes of IEI and ILI are VERY irrational. Too go-with-the-flow sorta and with all that stuff you said about structure, understanding, classification, it feels like you value a judging function (Ti in this case) quite highly.

    Hope this wall of text helped a bit lol.

    By the way, if you ever want to talk sometime send me a message here or something cause I think it'd be interesting to talk For the record I'm 22 as well and I managed to get out of Argentina last year after graduating uni there in STEM. So I can tell you my story if you'd like.

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    Ni types are very image driven and by image I mean literal image. This is what Jung stated. They go head first to visual input, only to take cursory glance and then draw "aesthetic intuitive" conclusion which is symbol driven "pierced man etc". I do not see that in your text. Whereas Ne types tend to overwhelm others with piecing depths of what is going (which is also very irrational) completely discarding the image object.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    Why not ILI or EII?
    Because I value socio Ti and Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Banana King View Post
    Saludos, compatriota! Yo también soy de Argentina pero tuve la suerte de escaparme de ahí en plena pandemia.

    My first impression was LII. If that's the case then must've been tough for you to grow up in such a Beta country. The reason why I don't think you're IEI is that generally IEI are romantic (you describe yourself as nonromantic). Also, the way you type does not remind me of IEI. Their writing is all over the place, lots of imagery, etc. Yours is very well structured, and honestly amazingly good if English isn't your mother tongue (sorry if I'm making assumptions). Anyways the writing style very much reminds me of LII.

    >My main goal in life is to know as much as I possibly can about everything, both by reading books and by travelling the world/talking to different types of people from different places. I enjoy music, memes, physics, sci-fi/horror movies and books, and I spend 99% of my time on the Internet.
    Quite similar to myself lol. Alpha values maybe. The excessive focus on analysis/understanding along with your introvertedness would be more like LII.

    >It is hard for me to look inside myself and see who I am, so labels and descriptors help me find myself.
    Feels like something very Ti-ish to say, even weak Ni perhaps.

    >And I'm interested in typology because it helps me understand people better. Instead of every individual being their own person in this chaotic mess, we can analyze peoples' psyches and see patterns, what they have in common and what they don't, how they interact with each other; basically build a framework to see how their brains work. And I like learning how things work.
    I think exactly the same lol. Again frameworks/understanding/classification = Ti.

    >I like honesty, being listened to, and being emotionally supported. I also tend to like people with some edge or eccentricity to them. People who will say/do things that are unpredictable and will take me aback. This is because I like being surprised, it is exciting and stimulating.
    The first sentence feels like EII. But the rest is very perceiving, especially IP temperament. IJ and EJ value stability, do not like surprises, etc. So this is a point for IEI.

    >I wanted to be a theoretical physicist/cosmologist, but not long ago I quit my career and I am currently studying programming. In ideal circumstances I would be a musician, but like I said, financially it would not be wise, so I picked a STEM career that would allow me to leave the country and explore the world, which is what I wanna do. I also picked scientific research because I have an instinctive, visceral need to do something that matters, that transcends me. However, I found physics to be too difficult for me as well as too long of a career, and for personal reasons I decided it would be quicker for me to form myself as a programmer and be able to have some level of freedom of movement like I wanted to. Hopefully in the future I can mix both worlds and go into something like data science, as well as music.
    So LII fits better here than IEI mostly because I don't think an IEI would put themselves through the struggle of getting a stem degree to make money to obtain economic freedom and then do the stuff they like. They got the Ni to do it but they lack the Te simply for managing money effectively etc. Also IEI are very crafty for evading economic responsibilities so they would go straight down the artistic path instead and pray for the best lol.
    And also, your story is quite similar to mine. I got into STEM mostly for the money and being vaguely interested in computers lol. But originally I wanted to be a vagrant kinda dude traveling and living off of stock market speculation of course life ain't that easy, especially in a 3rd world country...

    >I am obsessed with time and understanding how it works. To me, past present and future are all part of one single entity that 3D beings can't fully view or understand.
    Very Ni-ish thing to say.

    >I pay zero attention to [efficiency and productivity] and often times need someone else to help me in those areas.
    Low Te thing to say.

    >I would say I am decent at handling money, without trying.

    And then a high Te thing to say.

    >My instinct is to improvise and adapt as I go.
    p type or irrational subtype such as LII-Ne

    >Freedom (I swear I'm not American), justice, truth. I cannot answer why, to me it's obvious. They are very important things for all humans to have.
    It's so weird that we both come from the same country and have the same values. In the exact same order lol. Perhaps these are country values rather than personality values. Sadly it's a country that lacks these three things, don't you think?


    >In the world we live in, money is freedom. The thing I value the most in this world is freedom, and so by extension I value money. I am aware, however, that it's an invented concept. I don't value money for the sake of it, but because I've seen what it's like to be without it.
    Dude this is literally exactly how I feel about money. Seriously its like somebody stole it from my own mind or something hahaha.

    Well honestly I don't know for sure. LII-Ne would make a lot of sense. You remind me a lot of myself a few years ago. Like very similar in terms of interests, values, etc. but also quite different in terms of attitude as I am a generally a carefree and positive dude. I don't think you are an F type. The extra flexibility you have that reminds me of perceiving types might be an indicator of irrational subtype. For the record, I used to score LII-Ne in socionics tests before. Eventually I settled for ILE as a type because I generally am extroverted and positivistic and have an easy time initiating contact which is not normal for LII lol.
    You should read descriptions of LII-Ne, IEI-Ni and even ILI-Ni to see which one works better for you. But I'd say like 80% chance you're LII. The irrational subtypes of IEI and ILI are VERY irrational. Too go-with-the-flow sorta and with all that stuff you said about structure, understanding, classification, it feels like you value a judging function (Ti in this case) quite highly.

    Hope this wall of text helped a bit lol.

    By the way, if you ever want to talk sometime send me a message here or something cause I think it'd be interesting to talk For the record I'm 22 as well and I managed to get out of Argentina last year after graduating uni there in STEM. So I can tell you my story if you'd like.
    Thanks for taking the time to read all of it! I'll message you. Also, I didn't go into STEM just for the money, I have a visceral need to do something that matters and for me that is scientific research (specifically physics). I sort of chose in between pure desire and pure practicality. If i was a pragmatist I would've studied engineering and killed myself in the process.
    I feel like the path I chose has a lot to do with the country and less so with my own volition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    Ni types are very image driven and by image I mean literal image. This is what Jung stated. They go head first to visual input, only to take cursory glance and then draw "aesthetic intuitive" conclusion which is symbol driven "pierced man etc". I do not see that in your text. Whereas Ne types tend to overwhelm others with piecing depths of what is going (which is also very irrational) completely discarding the image object.
    I'm sorry, could you explain this in a bit of a more simplistic way, or send a link to what you're talking about? English is not my first language. BTW I think in images and scenes, not language.

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    You should probably just try to type by which functions are most prevalent and which one is the most "painful." Usually, assuming you fit into a neat socionic type, you should find that your strongest function will be program, second will be demonstrative, and the worst one will be the POLR. Demonstrative should be the opposite of POLR(I.E Fi and Te, Ni and Se), if not then you probably don't really fit into a specific type very well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daf25 View Post
    I'm sorry, could you explain this in a bit of a more simplistic way, or send a link to what you're talking about? English is not my first language. BTW I think in images and scenes, not language.
    You should try to understand Jung's work but also IEI's. Ip mind works through impressionistic sense <--> aesthetic intuition channels (Ip's are usually traditional artistic types in someways at least).
    @aster and some other IEI's on this site seem to have this quality.


    I think Jodi Arias is IEI. Very drawn towards images (photgraphy).


    Ij are usually about what is right and wrong (in logical and ethical sense).
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    Those two are so different. Occasionally, words on both sides could apply to both types but most of the time, types stick to their respective sides:

    LII vs IEI

    detached vs interactive
    objective vs personal
    naive vs guarded
    aloof vs uncertain
    periodic blindness vs tunnel vision
    cold vs warm
    rigid vs go with the flow
    frank vs ambiguous
    sees consequence vs sees blue sky
    correctness vs image
    individualist vs chameleon
    opinionated vs agreeable
    diplomatic vs tactful
    insensitive vs compassionate
    dismissive vs easily hurt
    needs a strategy vs adaptable

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 04-26-2021 at 01:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    You should probably just try to type by which functions are most prevalent and which one is the most "painful." Usually, assuming you fit into a neat socionic type, you should find that your strongest function will be program, second will be demonstrative, and the worst one will be the POLR. Demonstrative should be the opposite of POLR(I.E Fi and Te, Ni and Se), if not then you probably don't really fit into a specific type very well.

    Most prevalent functions: Ti, Ni, Ne, Fi
    Most painful: Se, Te

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Those two are so different. Occasionally, words on both sides could apply to both types but most of the time, types stick to their respective sides:

    LII vs IEI

    detached vs interactive
    objective vs personal
    naive vs guarded
    aloof vs uncertain
    periodic blindness vs tunnel vision
    cold vs warm
    rigid vs go with the flow
    frank vs ambiguous
    sees consequence vs sees blue sky
    correctness vs image
    individualist vs chameleon
    opinionated vs agreeable
    diplomatic vs tactful
    insensitive vs compassionate
    dismissive vs easily hurt
    needs a strategy vs adaptable

    a.k.a. I/O
    detached
    objective
    guarded
    uncertain
    periodic blindness
    cold
    both
    frank
    sees consequences
    correctness
    individualist
    opinionated
    neither
    both depending on the situation
    easily hurt
    both

    this would point to LII

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daf25 View Post
    .......this would point to LII
    I now understand why you're oscillating.

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ription-by-I-O
    http://www.socionics.com/articles/on_being_intj.html

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daf25 View Post
    Most prevalent functions: Ti, Ni, Ne, Fi
    Most painful: Se, Te
    Would you say any of these are especially strong or weak, or are these about the same?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    Would you say any of these are especially strong or weak, or are these about the same?
    I would say Ti and Ni are especially strong, and Se and Te are about equally weak

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I see more of myself in the LII description, but with way less focus on efficiency, and more valuing of what others say about my ideas. Are you LII-Ti?

    btw, I read the comment right below the IEI description, and in the signature there was a link to descriptions of the elements. I thought Ne ("learning language is a good idea on its own because it has innate potential") fit me better than Ni ("learning a language is good because of the places it will bring you")

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daf25 View Post
    I would say Ti and Ni are especially strong, and Se and Te are about equally weak

    Strong Ti and Ni suggest either LII(Ti program and Ni demonstrative) or ILI(Ni program and Ti demonstrative). Assuming Se is more painful while Te is more just weak, you're probably an LII who either just has weak Te, or if you wanna take it a step further replaced Te instead of Fe as suggestive(though no one in socionics really takes the idea of just switching functions like that too seriously, even if it is more accurate).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    Strong Ti and Ni suggest either LII(Ti program and Ni demonstrative) or ILI(Ni program and Ti demonstrative). Assuming Se is more painful while Te is more just weak, you're probably an LII who either just has weak Te, or if you wanna take it a step further replaced Te instead of Fe as suggestive(though no one in socionics really takes the idea of just switching functions like that too seriously, even if it is more accurate).
    thank you. I realized I value Ne more than I previously thought as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daf25 View Post
    I see more of myself in the LII description, but with way less focus on efficiency, and more valuing of what others say about my ideas. Are you LII-Ti?
    ........
    Very much so. However, Ne-subtypes and just plain LIIs use the same information processing structure to make decisions. What others say does not affect LII rationalization processes. When others provide new information then it's processed with all the other information but it's rationalized in the same fashion.

    With respect to IEs, here's a different spin: http://www.socionics.com/articles/soc_pref_io.html

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daf25 View Post
    If i was a pragmatist I would've studied engineering and killed myself in the process.
    engisuicide.png

    Join the engineering death cult today!

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    Based on the answers of questionnaire, LII. Why do you think you could have Fi-demo Fe creative?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    you seem F type
    a video is important
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1096450
    Why do you think Daf could be F type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    Based on the answers of questionnaire, LII. Why do you think you could have Fi-demo Fe creative?
    Those two are the IEI placements I related to the least, actually. But I mostly related to Ni base, and the 'dislike of focusing on efficiency/usefulness' part of PoLR Te.

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