DEAD Musings!
The thing that annoys me about the whole damn vaccine fiasco is that it's not becoming a choice anymore. It's becoming a form of control that the masses "must accept" in order to continue on with their lives. It's not about "combating the virus" anymore, it seems to be more about the drug companies trying to recoup their losses that they invested with this vaccine. A lot of people here don't seem to be taking it because they're "wary of the side effects", or because they believe in the "freedom of choice", or they're "allergic to/ at risk" with some of the ingredients in certain available vaccines.
On one hand, they say "oh the vaccines are safe, go ahead and take them", but on the other, it's like "oh we have discovered this and that, and blah, these vaccines aren't as safe as as we first thought". It's kinda contradictory tbh. And a lot of times, the vaccines aren't even needed. Low risk people shouldn't need to take them at all. Some people are getting unwanted side effects that are worse than a lot of other people. These vaccines aren't totally stable and a lot of them have been rushed through the production.
At the end of the day, we are all data and test subjects to them. A lot of people haven't researched both sides of the story. On one hand, yes the vaccines may protect you, but on the other, they may make you worse. In a way, it's like playing russian roulette with your health. You might not get Covid if you stay unvaccinated, and you might get it after two jabs.
It mightn't be strong, or it might be weaker, but as long as people research the vaccine and have a freedom of choice in taking it, I think that's fine. But for how much longer?
This is the dark outcome of defending freedom of a choice. This is the reason why I sometimes don't want to defend such. Because although everyone seems to defend freedom of choice at first, in time, when some group gather enough power, they force you to abide to their side. There are lots of examples of this in history and politics.Originally Posted by DEAD
Freedom of choice never means freedom on consequence. This goes for everything. I understand why people don’t want the vaccine and I do think it’s their choose not too. It can be a gamble to risk a very new vaccine. However it’s a risk to catch the Virus as well. It’s up to the individual. The only thing I dislike is people overly downplaying covid. Hell, there will probably be a lot of traumatized people to come from this in the future to come. Not just from family members dying but lots of doctors and healthcare workers being extremely burnt out and suffered a lot of death in a short period of time. I can’t imagine how the people in India and Italy feel in their healthcare.
People can and will die from covid. Like most things but, this one effects a lot more factors. Most of you guys live elsewhere but vaccine passports are coming to Canada and Ontario just announced them for non service. Quebec officially has them now. You need to be vaccinated or have a negative test to get on my school campus.
Point is, choices have consequences and they can be good or bad. It’s up to the individual but you gotta accept both with your choice.
Last edited by MissDucki; 09-06-2021 at 11:47 PM.
You are all going to die someday.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Nah, I'm planning on becoming a demon.
Summon me someday.
Nah, I'm planning on becoming a demon.
Summon me someday.
Funny you mention that...
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Looking to make a deal already?
I used to lurk on that forum. There were genuinely inquisitive people alongside some trolls (like the guy whose username was "Saddam Hussein").
But there are also dogmatic Flat Earthers — prominent ones like Tom Bishop — who believe that the Earth's curvature is a lens effect, created using fish-eye lenses. If not, then they've got to be some of the most dedicated trolls on the Internet.
Not that it's totally relevant, but Tom Bishop is also pretty Libertarian. Fun (?) fact: he directly mocked neighbours whose house burned down because, so he claims, they opted not to purchase services from their local, privatized fire department. Yeah, he actually bothered writing a post to laugh at people whose house burned down.
I also got the impression that a lot of Flat Earthers are fundamentalist Christians, trying to interpret the facts in a way that's consistent with their beliefs.
tell me something i dont know
my dad is muslim and has the same problem. recently he has gotten older and more aware of his mortality, so he started to get into his religion more, and now he also believes in flat earth theory lol
I haven't got it... too many things that don't add up.
Last edited by Marep; 09-06-2021 at 08:26 PM.
While I think the vaccines are a good thing, I don't approve the colossal profits some pharmaceutical companies made from it. Public health shouldn't be regulated by the free market. Also, vaccination passports are kinda discriminatory and pointless since vaccinated people can still be infected so theoretically they can still spread the virus. But that didn't stop me from getting the vaccine, those reasons aren't enough to boycott something that could prevent me from staying sick for 2 weeks.
Yes, however the odds for complications aren't the same between catching the virus and getting the vaccine. A lot of people, just because they heard of some side effects, start assuming that taking the vaccine has as much risks as getting sick, which isn't true. The problem is that only few people actually understand how vaccines work. Vaccines are actually a "light version" of covid, so that your body learn to defend itself against the real virus.
Also, what's often overlooked is that while vaccination might be seen as a private choice, it's consequences are also public. If vaccination deniers actually paid their healthcare costs themselves, it would make more sense that vaccination stays a choice.
Personally, I find that most people are skeptical about the vaccine are reasonable and that most of them aren’t true “anti vaccine” and have their other ones. I sure as hell didn’t get mine to protect me. I just got it to make sure I can travel to Europe in the future. Most people get it and I do think they should heavily consider it. A lot of them often do when they see a family member or a close one die in the hospital due to it and that pops the bubble. It sadly takes an extreme situation to get them to vaccinate. I honestly don’t think stuffing the vaccine down people’s throats are going to honestly change their mind. Just restricting their movement would be best. In terms, I was in Quebec and they have the vaccine passport. You can’t eat or enter certain shops unless you are vaccinated. I think that’s fair. If people don’t then they have to stay home or get tested to go out. I think that is a fair consequence for both. It’s up to the individual in that regard and they will be bringing it to my home province of Ontario.
People are going to do what they want at the end of the day. I will do what I need to protect myself and that’s all I can do. I just really hate the idea of forcing something onto anybody. You show them the consequences and let them choose. At least there, they made that choice and have to accept the consequences of it. That’s their responsibility. Besides, most populations are choosing to be vaccinated and I do see another wave of vaccines coming after the delta wave too. So, we shall see.
I'm 100% for choice. But isn't what you describe like stuffing the vaccine down people's throats though? "If you don't get your vaccine, you can't go shopping" sounds like "if you don't eat your vegetables, you won't get any dessert and won't be allowed to leave the table". It's not like you're giving people a real, free choice and sounds a bit patronizing. That's the other reason(see above for the main one) why I'm against the passport.
I'd rather people discuss and get real info(instead of conspiracy theories or anecdotes) on what's in the vaccine, what to expect, and understand how they are a pain in the ass for society and themselves for refusing. Then they can make an informed choice.
I view it as “that’s life”. Like, im stubborn as fuck with things and I will personally go out of my way to avoid something if I personally believed what I was doing was right. If I was against the vaccine, I would 100% make sure to follow the rules so I don’t get them. You can work around them. It’s not like you can’t. It’s just harder but that’s life in general. You make choices and you have to deal with the consequences. That consequence is not having the same freedoms of daily life to have the freedom of choosing not to put a new vaccine in your body. My siblings didn’t want the vaccine but, they chose to get it. Not for health reasons. My sister needed it for school and my brother wanted to go out to bars. They made the choice. Smart people make informed choices. Most of the population doesn’t. You can give so much information out there but there will still be people who refused to listen to science.
Edit: My sister can easily continue her education online but chose not to. So she got the vaccine. My brother did not have to go out and go to bars but he chose not too. I could chose not to travel right now or in the future but I chose not too. We chose the consequences of the vaccine to expand our choices and freedoms.
Science does not have a single voice and its communication is complex among experts. It is one thing to get vaccinated so that you get to feel you can move around easier for some time and another to try and convince yourself and others that it is the rational/right thing to do.
Last edited by Kalinoche buenanoche; 09-07-2021 at 12:51 AM.
Sure, disproving hypotheses of other scientists is the way of science; but we're not argumenting about the origins of the Big Bang here. The scientists who developped the vaccines have a pretty clear idea of their effects and contents. Since most vaccines are made from the Covid virus, there isn't really more risk to vaccination than getting COVID.
OTOH, whether there is a point to force the whole population to be vaccinated is more open to debate and rather a political/infectiological question.
People who don't want to take a vaccine which might turn them into the Borg in fifteen years can always try Ivermectin.
https://www.scholarsresearchlibrary....s-patients.pdf
I mean, Ivermectin for human use (river blindness) causes sperm deformities and sterility, but Alex Jones swears by it. And he's rich, so he must be right.
https://www.alternet.org/2021/09/ale...Pos=3#cxrecs_s
..
IKR. Imagine having the ability to mass produce the technology of a Kardashev-2 civilization (I'm speaking of microchips that take over a host's nervous system --- i.e. Borg nanoprobes). A guy like that already has you by the balls.
Didn't you read Snow Crash? There will be counter-microchips for defense. Nano-dust.
But this is already what viruses do.
You mean, like Bill Gates putting microchips in the horse paste?
That guy is so sneaky.
its not horse paste its windows xp bruh
Lmao, restricting movility is basically stuffing the vaccine into ppls throats. Is trying to force ppl to get it. If ppl is vaccinated and "they won't die" because they are "protected", why on earth do the unvaccinated should be kept away from them?
How about this, if someone really wants to be 100% safe, s/he can avoid going to public and crowded places as much as possible. That would be truly fairy not walking on ppls constitutional and most basic human rights.
If people want to go out, they can get a rapid test or go get tested if they don’t want the vaccine. There are options, it’s not like their isn’t. Not as many options as being vaccinated but there are. A lot of influencers do/did this in California with the rapid test during the HIGHT of covid and I’m pretty damn sure they weren’t vaccinated. You’re dammed if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. If you want to stop covid, then you have to put restrictions. If you put too many restrictions, you’re infringing on peoples rights so you got to at least give some choices. That choice is staying home or rapid testing if people really don’t want the vaccine. People who are vaccinated show stay home too but, there will still be people who need to go to essential work and make money blah blah blah.
I do sympathize with the people who don’t want to get vaccinated. I also don’t think hospital beds should be taken away from them if they were to catch it. I just think that with that choice, they are limited because they are the most at risk if they catch covid. If someone is vaxxed, they may catch it but it’s less of a risk. People have died from this. Let’s not forget that. Everybody always talks about “freedom” but everyone one forgets the consequences that come with those freedoms. Good or bad. You are free to choose, you are not free of the consequences of your actions.
I'd like to remind you that Covid kills <1% of infected people, primarily very old and very weak people. Most people's chance of dying is ridiculously low. So, how about this option: people who are worried can stay home or get vaccinated, and people who aren't worried can live their lives? Why do you have to tell other people how to live?
Also, why is it that despite the fact that heart disease kills vastly more people than Covid, I don't see people like you trying to restrict the rights of fat people, or trying to ban unhealthy food?
A) What do you mean by "stop" Covid? Eradicate it? Do you seriously believe that's possible?If you want to stop covid, then you have to put restrictions. If you put too many restrictions, you’re infringing on peoples rights so you got to at least give some choices. That choice is staying home or rapid testing if people really don’t want the vaccine. People who are vaccinated show stay home too but, there will still be people who need to go to essential work and make money blah blah blah.
B) Where do you get this idea that restrictions "work?" Work for what? People just fucking repeat this, yet all lockdowns do is prolong the "pandemic," and vaccines aren't doing shit for Israel.
Do you also think hospital beds should be taken away from fat people? What about people like Adam Strange, who fell asleep while driving after getting vaccinated, putting others at risk?I do sympathize with the people who don’t want to get vaccinated. I also don’t think hospital beds should be taken away from them if they were to catch it.
Again, less than 1% of people, and mostly people who were already going to die soon anyway. People also die from the flu. Or from colds. The world is a dangerous place; that doesn't mean you get to force people to take untested vaccines made by companies which have happily murdered people for profit which don't even stop you from transmitting the virus or getting sick, and which apparently wear off in only 8 months.I just think that with that choice, they are limited because they are the most at risk if they catch covid. If someone is vaxxed, they may catch it but it’s less of a risk. People have died from this.
You sound like a fan of Idi Amin: “There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech.”Let’s not forget that. Everybody always talks about “freedom” but everyone one forgets the consequences that come with those freedoms. Good or bad. You are free to choose, you are not free of the consequences of your actions.
If exercising your "freedom" gets you thrown into jail, guess what? You aren't free. Being barred from public life if I don't get the vaccine isn't a "consequence" of any "freedom" I have; it's a punishment by petty despots.
Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 09-10-2021 at 09:59 PM.
Getting the American population on board for vaccinations might provide temporary relief, but so long as many other countries do not have access to the vaccine, the virus will just mutate to where our existing vaccines are ineffective.
Wearing a mask and social distancing is perhaps the most effective way of preventing the spread (and washing hands!).
So many people yearn to return to pre-pandemic life but that is not realistic. We have to learn to live with it and take what measures are available so as to not cause a total collapse of our infrastructure.
I think this mandate has more to do with keeping hospitals functioning hence take the jabs or do routine testing to prevent workplace spread. It's kind of like the temperature checks but more invasive with the nose swab.
I don't know how I feel about it since it doesn't directly affect me since I work remotely now. My wife will not take the shot but she's okay with doing the tests. I do, however, empathize with those who are worried about the vaccine due to weird ideas, misinformation, or whatever else it is since I've been there on different issues I'm sure.
With the gamma variant, it might bypass the vaccine entirely. It's safe to say covid is here to stay as it will [hopefully] mutate into a highly contagious strain that is much more mild as previous viruses have done in previous pandemics.
However, we are up shit creek right now the way hospitals are getting jam packed and that is a major fucking problem and is, again, why this mandate is happening.
Okay Im back from a long ass shift from work (making money moves~) so now I have some energy to debate! Leggo~
Less then 1% is still very large. Yes, statistically if you look at it like that but, those are still people. Even if they are frail, old, and sick. SO whats the government to do? Have a free for all? Let people die and be overworked? I was in Germany during the start of pandemic and I was hearing/seeing horror stories of the poor doctors in Italy that literately didn't have enough beds or equipment for those infected. If everyone caught it, we would be fucked.
There is a lot of shit that kills you. But, there is a lot of healthcare systems out there that were struggling before a pandemic. Imagine the regular hurt and sick people ON TOP of those infected. Both will kill you. but if you don't have enough resources to help, your double fucked and will loose more people.
A) Starve it out. I honestly don't know. But if it was just a free for all, that'd a lot of people dying and a lot of stress on healthcare workes and the rest of the world. It's a tricky line to toe as the world needs to keep moving but nobody wants to get sick from it.So, how A) What do you mean by "stop" Covid? Eradicate it? Do you seriously believe that's possible?
B) Where do you get this idea that restrictions "work?" Work for what? People just fucking repeat this, yet all lockdowns do is prolong the "pandemic," and vaccines aren't doing shit for Israel.
B) If people followed them, it could work. Does everyone follow them? no. So, what can you do? I would say its better to try and restrict them then do nothing at all. What do you think the governments should do?
I don't think any hospital beds should be taken away at all. No, I don't think so either. I mentioned that. I honestly think its kinda fucked up that some people say that they should be taken away from the unvacinated. They. are. people. Even if people make choices that are unhealthy or it was unexpected, they deserve a hospital bed. Choices have consequences. If a fat person goes to a hospital because of a potential heart attack, they deserve a bed. No doubt. However, they made choices everyday that led to that bed. If they had chosen differently, there would be different consequences.Do you also think hospital beds should be taken away from fat people? What about people like Adam Strange, who fell asleep while driving after getting vaccinated, putting others at risk?
I cant comment on the vaccine as I really haven't done an extreme amount of research in it. But like I mentioned, those people are still people. My cousin has a very weak immune system a cold can easily put her in the hospital. I had a coworker with the EXACT same thing. You are right, people die. But, I don't want the people around me that got screwed genetically to die. People die, but its kinda fucked up to watch your family member struggle and die when precautions could have possibly prevented it. The vaccine at least protects you from death a lot more then without it.Again, less than 1% of people, and mostly people who were already going to die soon anyway. People also die from the flu. Or from colds. The world is a dangerous place; that doesn't mean you get to force people to take untested vaccines made by companies which have happily murdered people for profit which don't even stop you from transmitting the virus or getting sick, and which apparently wear off in only 8 months.
Freedom of speech, means you are protected from the government from coming after you. I personally believe that you have the freedom to do whatever you want in life. You are not free form the consequences of your actions. You are free to cheat on your partner, but they may leave you. You are free to steal, but you are not free from the consequences if you get caught. You may bitch a conspiracy theory but somebody is allowed to call you dumb and retaliate back. Freedom never equals a safe outcome. It never has.You sound like a fan of Idi Amin: “There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech.”
If exercising your "freedom" gets you thrown into jail, guess what? You aren't free. Being barred from public life if I don't get the vaccine isn't a "consequence" of any "freedom" I have; it's a punishment by petty despots
I have mentioned there are options. You can get rapid tested. You can go get tested. I don't think that's such a horrible option. You don't have to take the vaccine and you have the test to prove your good to be around the public. It is an option. You can work online, you can go to school online, you can do many a stuff from home and socially distancing. I am not saying its wonderful, it sucks. But it is an option and a choice if you freely choose not to get the vaccine. If you don't like those options, then you can choose to get the vaccine in then. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Choices are presented, you choose one and hope you have a good outcome or consequence.
If you don't want to get the vaccine, don't. If you want the vaccine, get it. I am just one person and I made my choice and now I deal with those outcomes. That's it.
Even assuming vaccination "worked," again, why is the focus on getting vaccinated and not, say, reducing obesity? As you seem to admit, it's far more dangerous and far more of a burden on healthcare systems than Covid is.
The main reason hospitals are struggling right now, at least in the States, is because people, especially nurses, are quitting or retiring early. There's so much political bullshit and security theater going on in hospitals it's become much more stressful to work there.
If the danger is that hospitals will be overrun, though, one option would be to just simply build more accommodations for sick people, and offer bonuses to medical personnel. This to me sounds like a use of government money I can't see too many people opposing. Why doesn't this happen? Why are the only solutions ever put forward to give an obscene handout to pharmaceutical companies, or to shut down small businesses and increase the power and wealth of oligopolies like Walmart and Amazon?
It's a lot more stress on healthcare workers to keep this "pandemic" going indefinitely. Getting sick is part of life; everyone's going to get Covid eventually.A) Starve it out. I honestly don't know. But if it was just a free for all, that'd a lot of people dying and a lot of stress on healthcare workes and the rest of the world. It's a tricky line to toe as the world needs to keep moving but nobody wants to get sick from it.
As for "starving it out --" how?? Lockdowns don't starve Covid; they slow it. And the vaccines very obviously aren't doing it either. What in the Lord's name is supposed to "starve" it?
Based on what? The most vaccinated countries in the world are experiencing the worst outbreaks of Covid; how does this square with the vaccine "working?" While we're on the subject, can you explain to me how a vaccine that doesn't stop you from getting sick or transmitting the virus doesn't just result in an evolutionary arms race? This has happened before, with the result that a disease that previously caused negligible problems became fatal and fast-spreading.B) If people followed them, it could work. Does everyone follow them? no. So, what can you do? I would say its better to try and restrict them then do nothing at all. What do you think the governments should do?
As for lockdowns, the virus isn't going away. All they do is potentially make it take longer for you to get sick, inhibiting the development of herd immunity.
Re. what I think the government should do: doing nothing would be preferable to vaccine mandates. Lockdowns don't save any lives, mask mandates are even more pointless, and the vaccines, if they even do anything, wear off after 8 months, don't stop you from getting sick, and don't stop you from transmitting the disease. Oh, and come with a host of side effects that Covid itself doesn't.
As I said, they can allocate money to build temporary medical facilities/pay bonus pay to healthcare workers. The rest is just security theater. You can't stop people from getting sick, and even if the vaccines did reduce the risk of death, taking one should be a decision left to the individual.
Apologies; I misread your post.I don't think any hospital beds should be taken away at all. No, I don't think so either. I mentioned that. I honestly think its kinda fucked up that some people say that they should be taken away from the unvacinated. They. are. people. Even if people make choices that are unhealthy or it was unexpected, they deserve a hospital bed. Choices have consequences. If a fat person goes to a hospital because of a potential heart attack, they deserve a bed. No doubt. However, they made choices everyday that led to that bed. If they had chosen differently, there would be different consequences.
OK, so vulnerable people can get the vaccine if they want it. If you're under 55 and under 300 pounds, why should you be pressured to get it? In fact, given that your immune response is vastly superior if you do recover from Covid as opposed to getting the vaccine, why aren't we encouraging healthy under-55s to go out and get sick? Wouldn't this keep people safer in the long run?I cant comment on the vaccine as I really haven't done an extreme amount of research in it. But like I mentioned, those people are still people. My cousin has a very weak immune system a cold can easily put her in the hospital. I had a coworker with the EXACT same thing. You are right, people die. But, I don't want the people around me that got screwed genetically to die. People die, but its kinda fucked up to watch your family member struggle and die when precautions could have possibly prevented it. The vaccine at least protects you from death a lot more then without it.
Good; we agree. Life isn't safe, and it's wrong to try to force people to be safe. The natural consequence of not getting vaccinated is that you might get sick (actually, you'll get sick even if you are vaccinated, but still...).Freedom of speech, means you are protected from the government from coming after you. I personally believe that you have the freedom to do whatever you want in life. You are not free form the consequences of your actions. You are free to cheat on your partner, but they may leave you. You are free to steal, but you are not free from the consequences if you get caught. You may bitch a conspiracy theory but somebody is allowed to call you dumb and retaliate back. Freedom never equals a safe outcome. It never has.
Why are these the choices? Why can people who are vulnerable not simply stay home or get vaccinated if they're so worried, and everyone else live as they did before 2020?I have mentioned there are options. You can get rapid tested. You can go get tested. I don't think that's such a horrible option. You don't have to take the vaccine and you have the test to prove your good to be around the public. It is an option. You can work online, you can go to school online, you can do many a stuff from home and socially distancing. I am not saying its wonderful, it sucks. But it is an option and a choice if you freely choose not to get the vaccine. If you don't like those options, then you can choose to get the vaccine in then. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Choices are presented, you choose one and hope you have a good outcome or consequence.
It's only possible for a minority of people to work for home, virtual education is even more terrible than the regular kind, and humans are social animals. You're proposing a kind of torture for unvaccinated people. That's not a real choice.
Here's a question: assuming that Covid is never eradicated, when, exactly, should vaccine mandates, mask mandates, and lockdowns end? Do you think people should just live this way forever? What happens when the next slightly more dangerous flu comes along; do we lockdown extra hard? At what point is enough enough? Governments around the world promised this shit would be over in two weeks, yet somehow restrictions are always extended, with no timetable for their removal.
Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 09-11-2021 at 03:32 AM.
Honestly, this seems like a strong possibility anyway. And this could be our life in the 2030's and beyond.
The evaporation of permafrost could expose viruses that have been lying dormant for millions of years. There are also grave uncertainties WRT. the effects of a hotter climate on the rate of viral mutation. Combining the need to deal with ecological catastrophes (viral and otherwise) with the growing acquiescence towards surveillance, the growing acceptance of technocratic solutions, and the monopolization of mass media, the eventual shift towards an illiberal democracy isn't such an audacious prediction.
If I could erase one word from the English language it would be "democracy." It must be the most thought-inhibiting word to ever be coined.
I personally see it as something to strive for, even if it can never be implemented perfectly (or, oftentimes, at all).
Wot
Look, what does “democracy” mean? In practice: nothing, and it never has. Do you rule yourself? No, the government will send you to jail if you don’t pay the IRS. Do you have any influence on government policy? Again, no. Have you tried sending a letter to a congressperson? If you do, that person isn’t going to read it. Unless you’ve got money or are working for someone who does, what you think does not matter. Can you vote? Yes, but the most effective propaganda machine in history is operative, so no matter what you think, it will be drowned out by the votes of millions who are swayed by the mass media, so your vote doesn’t matter. In California, maybe your governor will be recalled or maybe he won’t be depending on which candidate is able to market themselves best with the help of the media, and if he’s replaced his replacement will represent a different faction of capitalists — but certainly not you.
You’re also American, so votes in federal elections are even more pointless since A) you don’t have a choice outside the Democrats or Republicans, B) if you vote in primaries, either party can simply cheat if they don’t like the result — see Bernie Sanders’ 2016 campaign and the fuckery that went on in Iowa during the 2020 campaign — C) federal elections are a crock of shit, practically unauditable, and there’s zero reason to expect that their results have any correspondence to how people voted, D) the Supreme Court has determined that it can decide the outcome of an election if it so pleases.
We live in a class society. For some reason many people seem to have trouble grasping this, namely the middle classes. The state presents itself as the mediating organ between the classes; liberal ideology is that each person, no matter his wealth, class, religion, circumstances of birth, etc. has exactly the same vote, voice, and input as anyone else — conveniently forgetting that the entire point of wealth and class are that possessing them means you don’t have the same voice or power as anyone else.
Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 09-11-2021 at 07:43 PM.
I cant control if someone if obese. I cant control if someone smokes. They made those choices and its not like their isn't options out there that people can choose to loose weight and reverse symptoms. Just like their is the option for the vaccine or not. I cant control them, they make those choices. Those choices lead to their own consequences in regards to the options they have left. All of my grandparents died from cancer at young ages due to life choices. I could not control that but they could. My Pipi was still smoking on his death bed even with lung cancer.
I agree about putting more money towards hospitals. I think most would agree with that. Just I think there is a lot more intricacies that follow with putting money towards hospitals then we know. I am not in healthcare so I cant comment on that. My aunt is a retired nurse who went back to help with the COVID situation and vaccines. Same with my uncle. I can ask them more about that but, Canada and the rest of the world is very different with each of their own health care systems.
Big Pharma isn't going away anytime soon nor will it. Its fucked up but its like all fucked up evils in the world that aren't going away.
Starve it out- Less people to infect, less active the virus becomes is how I view it. Like a lot of old illness that died out when people started vaccinating other diseases and so it became less rampant. Though, there has been a lot more outbreaks in the states with certain ones because parents are refusing to vaccinate their children from certain vaccines.As for "starving it out --" how?? Lockdowns don't starve Covid; they slow it. And the vaccines very obviously aren't doing it either. What in the Lord's name is supposed to "starve" it?
In a perfect world this would have been over by now if we either all got sick or all stayed home and the scary COVID passed. But thats is not life nor theory in real life.Based on what? The most vaccinated countries in the world are experiencing the worst outbreaks of Covid; how does this square with the vaccine "working?" While we're on the subject, can you explain to me how a vaccine that doesn't stop you from getting sick or transmitting the virus doesn't just result in an evolutionary arms race? This has happened before, with the result that a disease that previously caused negligible problems became fatal and fast-spreading.
You can still get sick with the vaccine. However, if it is a different strain, it wont protect you from that. Just like there is a different flu shot every year. Different strain. Keeps you from full on dying and protect from that strain each year. Its not like vaccines dont work The only reason people are skeptical with this one is that it is because its new which is fair.
The question is, are the people that have high covid are the ones that are vaccinated or are they not? Israel is dealing with high rates but only 63% of their population is double vaxxed. That leaves 40% that can poteinally get it. Therefore, high numbers. If they are all mostly vaxxed, I will change my tune.
I do think herd immunity is the way to go but, which one will cause less deaths?
What I am hearing is what I am saying but inverted. Survival of the fittest. That makes the people with the crap immune system the minority and they are the ones at most risk.
Why are these the choices? Why can people who are vulnerable not simply stay home or get vaccinated if they're so worried, and everyone else live as they did before 2020?
It's only possible for a minority of people to work for home, virtual education is even more terrible than the regular kind, and humans are social animals. You're proposing a kind of torture for unvaccinated people. That's not a real choice.
Here's a question: assuming that Covid is never eradicated, when, exactly, should vaccine mandates, mask mandates, and lockdowns end? Do you think people should just live this way forever? What happens when the next slightly more dangerous flu comes along; do we lockdown extra hard? At what point is enough enough? Governments around the world promised this shit would be over in two weeks, yet somehow restrictions are always extended, with no timetable for their removal.
What do you want me to do or think FreelancePoliecman? I don't want people to get sick. I don't want people to die. I want this shit over. It's not like anyone is enjoying this. I cant control if people don't want to get the vaccine or not. I think people are allowed to not want to get it but that comes with consequences. I think the consequences for both are fair. Don't want the vaccines, get tested and show that paper. You are vaccinated, show that paper and get tested if you show symptoms too. I could be a real asshole and say that people who aren't vaccinated should not even get a hospital bed if they get sick at all. I don't believe in that cause that's fucked cause they are still people. I can also say that everyone MUST get vaxxed but I don't believe it that. I think people should get vaxxed but I will never force that on anyone. I can't even if I had the opportunity. I think its wrong.
Unvaxxed can still participate in real life if they want to. Its not like these people cant go see their friends or family cause most already still do. My siblings did before getting vaxxed. They just cannot participate in non essential services like the gym or go into a restaurant. I think that's fair. I live in a place where even if you go to these essential services, you still need a mask. I don't mind the mask. Most people are still doing online classes. I am still doing online classes and I am only going to the university to help with one class but I have to wear double protective gear and show a QR code saying that I don't have symptoms while vaccinated. Those are the two choices that we have now. Not cause I magically proclaimed it but its what is set up. I wear my mask, stay away from others as much as I can, and try and be healthy. That's all I can do. I try my best and I cant control others. That's my choice. This is just the life we have to deal with and make our own choices now.
I don't think we are going to agree on this is all.
The Fauci leak is certainly escalating the situation now. Especially since the corpse is pushing for mandates like some decrepit king.
yes, we should help encourage people to be healthy in general, in regards to obesity, drugs, and what not, along with getting vaccinated.
Ideally, when two people need to resolve a disagreement, should it be in equal agreement between them or should one person be able to override the other person's opinion?
Democracy isn't just about having elections, and elections aren't just about selecting leaders. Elections also exist to ensure the peaceful transition of power. The idea that a census determines the nature of government gives the government legitimacy, whereas hereditary transfer is potentially contestable by rival claimants (often armed).
The concept of liberal democracy also encompasses the separation of powers, which is itself a statement about the nature of power: that absolute rule is either fallible or corruptible, and that it must be circumscribed to ensure good government. On the other hand, the political programmes of reactionary movements like Catholic Integralism, Fascism, the Taliban's Deobandi Islamism, and even the Chinese Communist Party's New Confucianism, all promise to create a harmonious society that minimizes conflict between the people and its leaders — paternalistic though ultimately benevolent autocrats.
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