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Thread: IEI problem

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    chocolatte's Avatar
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    Default IEI problem

    Ok this question started out as a general one about Ne ignoring, but turned into something of the flavor Ne ignoring/1D Te and Se/devalued Te

    Trying to not ignore Ne makes me feel very uncomfortable. Maybe cause it then feels like I'm ignoring my base. or something to do with Ni-Ti-Te PoLR, feeling like I didn't think it through enough, therefore missed details, therefore feel uncomfortable "committing" like that (Ni valuation)
    Engaging my role doesn't make me feel uncomfortable (unless it's imposed on me) and I suck more at that, so what's with the ignoring having this effect?

    This is an issue for me lately as I developed a complicated-ish health issue with pretty ambiguous treatment.. and my mom, who is Ne-PoLR.. is the one telling me to be more open to trying different things.

    I'm frustrated with myself and I know I'm often wrong about things, but I'm so stubborn. It's not just that though, but also an issue (which applies to things in general) where I feel like I just don't know what to think about things!! I'm telling you, i could be so convinced of something, but in reality it'll somehow turn out to be wrong, and at this point i'd just be like, god not again.
    so, here in this situation, with my shitty T i try to reason to myself about whether or not doing Whatever thing my ESI mom suggests would be beneficial, turning it over so many times in head, then usually rejecting it because she just told me to do it without explaining anything and it seems to go against my squiggly Ti understanding of the mechanisms of the injury.

    she keeps on (most of the time) turning out to be right, but even with this knowledge i STILL can't get myself to open-mindedly trust her when she says it'll work. i can't. it makes me extremely uncomfortable. is this stupid and i just gotta suck it up?

    The other thing is that in life in general, i simply can't see things. i can't SEE things properly, hope you get what i mean. i've always joked that life to me just feels like my journey of figuring out what the proper way of looking at things is, but lately it's stopped feeling like just a joke..

    Anyway, i don't have a SLE inverse-seer around, to help me tell what is what. How can I deal with this frustrating 1D Te/Se combination on my own? and be more goddamn open-minded?

    thank you and if you plan on helping me out, would you mind rereading what i wrote, slowly, a second time? not because of you but because of my jumbled tired writing where i'm not sure the idea i'm trying to communicate can be grasped the way i want it to, the first time over. idk

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    What is the health issue? Is it psych based? Are you taking meds? Are you just bored and need money to buy something nice for yaself, lol?

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    chocolatte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberpunk View Post
    What is the health issue? Is it psych based? Are you taking meds? Are you just bored and need money to buy something nice for yaself, lol?
    Not sure where you got money out of that lol (would always accept some tho), no it's a biomechanical issue

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    Hey chocolatte. Um..I have always struggled with understanding the reality of physical (and mental) health conditions I have had. Hmm I think I would suggest to let your mum help you with this stuff. It must be scary and stressful to not feel like you know what to do in in this situation. Hopefully it will become clearer over time. Maybe write down your options with a timeline for how they might pan out. But keep in mind, you can’t control the outcome. Us IEIs make mistakes in logical thinking, that one day we can look back on and see (it can take a long time to realise though). I think it can be hard for young IEIs, suddenly feeling overwhelmed by information. That happened to me around your age.

    As for the other stuff about ‘figuring out the proper way of looking at things’. Yes it can be hard. I think it’ll get a bit easier as you get older, if you let it. You have socionics and typology to guide your thinking, so that’s good. But explore other interests too, (although don’t overwhelm yourself, it can be casual interest) and find people you are comfortable exploring your opinions with. It’s ok to have more questions than answers. The answers will come when they do, (it’s ok to overthink/discuss until they do, sometimes) but IEI are better at exploring shades of grey and people seem to appreciate that about us It’s also ok to think you know the answers, and change your mind later, even if it’s not that much later. lol. Everyone else is making it up as they go along too
    Last edited by Bethany; 03-28-2021 at 08:32 AM.
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    This is something that Gulenko got right: your ignoring and polr ("controlling" and "brake") are in the same "problematic function block". They are the functions you want to use least. Focusing on your ignoring is in a way ignoring what you fundamentally are. It's stronger than the polr but you really feel a resistance to using it, while polr can be more volatile.

    But like you said, wanting to understand everything through Ni and Ti is what IEI do (and they have a hard time believing anything they haven't analyzed and understood for themselves), and I also recognize their typical problem of not being able to "see" things in reality/real-time. However, this particular issue is more related to Ni lead being wary of committing to anything that could potentially have a negative outcome, which often leads to analysis paralysis. Ne/Se leading that have ignored Ni or DS Ni often just don't even think about such things in advance and just act impulsively when an opportunity presents itself, that's the typical EP way.

    If your mom has turned out to be right so far and there haven't been any bad outcomes then it's probably worth it giving her the benefit of doubt and just going along with the ideas. I can believe it's hard, like it's hard for me to stop to consider something before acting. But in the end, if it works it isn't stupid and sometimes you have to accept that not everything can be fully understood in advance. Not acting instead of endlessly analyzing is a trap many IEI fall into so getting a push from a Se type is probably for the better.
    Last edited by Northstar; 03-28-2021 at 12:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Ok this question started out as a general one about Ne ignoring, but turned into something of the flavor Ne ignoring/1D Te and Se/devalued Te

    Trying to not ignore Ne makes me feel very uncomfortable. Maybe cause it then feels like I'm ignoring my base. or something to do with Ni-Ti-Te PoLR, feeling like I didn't think it through enough, therefore missed details, therefore feel uncomfortable "committing" like that (Ni valuation)
    Engaging my role doesn't make me feel uncomfortable (unless it's imposed on me) and I suck more at that, so what's with the ignoring having this effect?

    This is an issue for me lately as I developed a complicated-ish health issue with pretty ambiguous treatment.. and my mom, who is Ne-PoLR.. is the one telling me to be more open to trying different things.

    I'm frustrated with myself and I know I'm often wrong about things, but I'm so stubborn. It's not just that though, but also an issue (which applies to things in general) where I feel like I just don't know what to think about things!! I'm telling you, i could be so convinced of something, but in reality it'll somehow turn out to be wrong, and at this point i'd just be like, god not again.
    so, here in this situation, with my shitty T i try to reason to myself about whether or not doing Whatever thing my ESI mom suggests would be beneficial, turning it over so many times in head, then usually rejecting it because she just told me to do it without explaining anything and it seems to go against my squiggly Ti understanding of the mechanisms of the injury.

    she keeps on (most of the time) turning out to be right, but even with this knowledge i STILL can't get myself to open-mindedly trust her when she says it'll work. i can't. it makes me extremely uncomfortable. is this stupid and i just gotta suck it up?

    The other thing is that in life in general, i simply can't see things. i can't SEE things properly, hope you get what i mean. i've always joked that life to me just feels like my journey of figuring out what the proper way of looking at things is, but lately it's stopped feeling like just a joke..

    Anyway, i don't have a SLE inverse-seer around, to help me tell what is what. How can I deal with this frustrating 1D Te/Se combination on my own? and be more goddamn open-minded?

    thank you and if you plan on helping me out, would you mind rereading what i wrote, slowly, a second time? not because of you but because of my jumbled tired writing where i'm not sure the idea i'm trying to communicate can be grasped the way i want it to, the first time over. idk
    Se & Ni go hand-in-hand.

    Rather than Ne, use Se to engage with the world. Let's say you picked fruit off a tree. Se says you just picked fruit. Your Ni says this fruit could one day feed starving people. Se says driving fast rules. Ni says driving fast may, some day make you an ideal ambulance driver, thus saving lives.

    Se is just a real world "meaningless" action. Ni finds the meaning or hidden truth to that action

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    I can't imagine a function which has a sole purpose to ignore something. However, IEIs don't like someone to rain on their parade or to paint anything but a rosy future for them. Ne-types tend to be a little more cognisant of over-the-horizon consequences than other types and these pictures aren't always rosy. Now, some Ne-types will deliberately ignore the consequences and do it anyway but it's a little harder for IEIs. Many IEIs seem to be comfortable with blissful ignorance (oblivion?) in their own selective worlds but to remain there, they need partners who tend to the ugly details.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    @chocolatte

    Maybe you should be nicer to yourself? I don't think Te valuing people are actually any more 'right' than anybody else tbh. I went through 4 Te doctors who didn't know what they were doing and didn't know how to help me and actually the high Se valuing/low Te valuing doctor was the only one able to figure out what was actually wrong with me. Because the Te people were trying to treat me like I came from a TExtbook instead of being a human being- and the Se person was the only one able to look at the real world specifics enough to actually be of any use to me.

    It's always wise to not completely trust what somebody says anyway- because everybody always has a hidden selfish motive for trying to 'help you' out anyway (that your good Ni and Fe already deciphered) - so that's not even really a bad thing to me. But for strictly mechanical/logical things- yeah maybe you should try to listen better - but sometimes they don't do a a very good job at explaining things either and for it to even work well you'd probably have to have somebody that was empathetic and understanding of your vulnerabilities/less strong functions.

    Even if somebody is right about something and you are wrong - that doesn't explain their hidden motives of saying it- right? It's not like real people are encyclopedias or anything even if they are logical types.

    haha HAHA I'm just another IEI teaching you to remain stubborn and distrustful of people. But I think being kinder to yourself allows you to be kinder to other people too. So maybe start with that as I think you're too much of a cute and beautiful person to be so critical of yourself. <3

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    I didn’t want to say this before as I was worried I’d confuse you..but I’ve had some pretty crap experiences with doctors too. I think even doctors can totally misdiagnose stuff sometimes, (stuff that looking back should have been REALLY obvious to fix). Sometimes the way they word things sound so final/conclusive as well, when maybe they don’t mean it to..I wish I’d discussed past health problems with friends/family more. (People who just have a bit better general knowledge about health stuff than me). That way you might come to a bit more of a nuanced understanding of what the doc has said.

    Also, some doctors just don’t know how to think about things from the perspective of a young person/young woman.
    Last edited by Bethany; 04-25-2021 at 03:28 PM.
    Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I can't imagine a function which has a sole purpose to ignore something. However, IEIs don't like someone to rain on their parade or to paint anything but a rosy future for them. Ne-types tend to be a little more cognisant of over-the-horizon consequences than other types and these pictures aren't always rosy. Now, some Ne-types will deliberately ignore the consequences and do it anyway but it's a little harder for IEIs. Many IEIs seem to be comfortable with blissful ignorance (oblivion?) in their own selective worlds but to remain there, they need partners who tend to the ugly details.
    I almost feel like I've read some Fi base's dilatation about Fi/Te moral superiority with only unhealthy given examples. Of course IEIs have inclination to that kind of shit but it can be worked out mainly with the aid of self-awareness and duality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    I don't think Te valuing people are actually any more 'right' than anybody else tbh. I went through 4 Te doctors who didn't know what they were doing and didn't know how to help me and actually the high Se valuing/low Te valuing doctor was the only one able to figure out what was actually wrong with me.

    haha HAHA I'm just another IEI teaching you to remain stubborn and distrustful of people.
    i don’t think thats a thing tbh, medical research imo is appropriately lauded but iatrogenesis is sadly widespread and severely underreported. i respect drs but oftentimes their jobs r so physically/spiritually taxing that they live in a constant state of exhaustion — the rest are NPs/PAs who dont rlly know or care nearly as much as they ought to. so frankly its laughable to expect a decent prognosis for anything outside of standard protocol like arthritis or obesity. it makes sense that ur dr was better bc egos r more high energy than egos. doesnt mean egos arent incredibly valuable.

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    Its like you already have the answer and have it figured out, but you just need someone to make you feel good and normal again. I find SLE just have a way that help IEI lighten up and get out of their heads about things.

    As if you want to bounce off someone. Its like, you need someone to let you be victimy and Ni cautious analytical without them personalizing it. SLE get joy out of watching this sort of thing. Its like you are this rare being that constantly perplexes them with the things that come out of your head.

    Seriously though "just do it".

    The other thing here is that you might resent your dependence on her, so reject her advice on that basis. Which is totally normal. Don't know, just a hunch.

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    As a fellow Beta NF, I fully understand you. I tend to be quite the hypochondriac, and these worries are informed by my feelings. This is heightened by Si PoLR.
    virgo sun - aquarius rising - scorpio moon

    oh, nihilism...


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