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Thread: Autistic Sociopaths/Psychopaths

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    Exclamation Autistic Sociopaths/Psychopaths

    Do you guys think it's possible to be an autistic sociopath? For me, my autism was really obvious but I also had callous and unemotional traits since childhood. Some people may be ignorant and think "well you just lack empathy because you're autistic" but that's a misunderstanding of both autism and sociopathy. I do not find empathy a useful term because people often use it differently than others. Instead, I will be using the term "feeling other's emotions" and "understanding other's emotions." People with autism typically do not understand other's emotions, but they feel other's normally or even more than normal. This is contrasted with sociopaths, who typically understand other's emotions very well but do not feel them. It can be akin to "hearing the lyrics without the music."

    You may think that that already shows it's mutually exclusive, but I do not think so. I seem to have skipped autism's hypersensitivity but everyone agrees that I'm autistic, I have abysmal social skills, fixate on certain topics to the annoyance of others (special interests), poor eye contact (although the severity of that has lessened), et.c. Now I mentioned callous and emotional traits before, traits in children that may lead to sociopathy as an adult. Sometimes I think it's autism is a misdiagnosis but I'm very lacking in self awareness in general.

    My childhood is very blurry like a distant dream. But I do remember some things. In kindergarten I found it funny when people cried, I would point and laugh at them. Year later I would try to murder a girl in a fit of rage. Do not remember if I felt guilty or remorseful. Parents berated me for it. 3rd grade; boy told me I would laugh if he died. Seemed to have calmed down after that, until 7th grade.

    Now you may be wondering "Why are you admitting these bad things about yourself?" - firstly I'm an attention whore and secondly, I still have somewhat of a hope I don't turn out to be a future criminal; maybe someone here can help me. 7th grade though, I started to consider people more in an "us vs. them" mentality; me being a le shy introvert and them being stupid normies. Began feeling less. Seemed to have been the beginning of depression, but I don't quite remember that well.

    Started fighting more with parents. Now I should remember I would sometimes have meltdowns before this; I believe I felt guilty about them but again, it all feels like another lifetime. There was at least a shift though, I would start to become false angry. I would act very angry while feeling nothing on the inside. It's not quite an act, it would be beneficial to everyone if I stopped being like this, but I cannot. Everything seems to have gotten worse since 7th grade, but I believe my false anger is becoming more controllable. I can now stop yelling for a bit and talk rationally.

    The beginning of the antisocial (not to be confused with asocial) behavior started around mid-2019. There was this guy I was quite fond of online, we'll call him ExF, short for ex-friend. He started to pull away from me and I tried to keep the friendship alive. Now this all sounds nice and all but the problem started when I would harass him in servers with my fetish. I would frequently ask him questions about it, talk about uh... doing stuff, don't want to be too NSFW because that's not the point of this thread + I'm only 16. He made it very clear to me that he found it disgusting and that it made him feel bad.

    I would frequently claim I was sorry but never truly was, I never stopped even if he blocked me. I do remember a shift in the way I experienced attachment to people. It used to feel meaningful, fulfilling, but that slowly started to go away. The reason I was so fond of him was because it would distract me from the emptiness I felt inside, knowing about him, et.c. I even call him my "not-crush" (I am incapable of romantic love). Eventually it escalated into me making alternate accounts to stalk him and gather information. I told people online about it and they said it was a terrible thing to do, so I stopped.

    I don't quite remember what I felt when I stopped stalking him. I even admitted to it. Eventually he completed pulled away from me, and we stopped talking since. It would ruin my day if he said something like "idc," so I had to be the one to stop talking to him because it was seriously bad for my mental health. Eventually, deleted all his messages with me, and that's when I knew it was truly over. That's when the boredom magnified. Parents would restrict my access to the internet and I got extremely bored and false angry. I tried to pick up many offline hobbies but none quite captivated me.

    To this day, I am highly irresponsible, even accounting for my age. I have hurt my puppy and threatened to do worse to her because she was in the way when arguing with my parents. I do not feel remorseful/guilty/empathetic about it, but acknowledge it's immoral. When I think about what I did, it's like "Meh, whatever." I do not really want to be a monster, but I feel like it is inevitable.

    What do you guys make out of all of this?

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    autist and psychopath are much opposing traits
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    autist and psychopath are much opposing traits
    Fuck you; I made a long ass post that addressed this and you have the audacity to make it obvious you didn't even bother reading anything beyond the title?

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    i'm beginning to think u keep inventing ways to convince yourself you're bad. my iei ex is the same way. i assumed it was because he grew up catholic.

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    sorry. you can get mad at me too

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    i'm beginning to think u keep inventing ways to convince yourself you're bad. my iei ex is the same way. i assumed it was because he grew up catholic.
    I've considered that but don't think so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTriz View Post
    Do you guys think it's possible to be an autistic sociopath? For me, my autism was really obvious but I also had callous and unemotional traits since childhood. Some people may be ignorant and think "well you just lack empathy because you're autistic" but that's a misunderstanding of both autism and sociopathy. I do not find empathy a useful term because people often use it differently than others. Instead, I will be using the term "feeling other's emotions" and "understanding other's emotions." People with autism typically do not understand other's emotions, but they feel other's normally or even more than normal. This is contrasted with sociopaths, who typically understand other's emotions very well but do not feel them. It can be akin to "hearing the lyrics without the music."

    You may think that that already shows it's mutually exclusive, but I do not think so. I seem to have skipped autism's hypersensitivity but everyone agrees that I'm autistic, I have abysmal social skills, fixate on certain topics to the annoyance of others (special interests), poor eye contact (although the severity of that has lessened), et.c. Now I mentioned callous and emotional traits before, traits in children that may lead to sociopathy as an adult. Sometimes I think it's autism is a misdiagnosis but I'm very lacking in self awareness in general.

    My childhood is very blurry like a distant dream. But I do remember some things. In kindergarten I found it funny when people cried, I would point and laugh at them. Year later I would try to murder a girl in a fit of rage. Do not remember if I felt guilty or remorseful. Parents berated me for it. 3rd grade; boy told me I would laugh if he died. Seemed to have calmed down after that, until 7th grade.

    Now you may be wondering "Why are you admitting these bad things about yourself?" - firstly I'm an attention whore and secondly, I still have somewhat of a hope I don't turn out to be a future criminal; maybe someone here can help me. 7th grade though, I started to consider people more in an "us vs. them" mentality; me being a le shy introvert and them being stupid normies. Began feeling less. Seemed to have been the beginning of depression, but I don't quite remember that well.

    Started fighting more with parents. Now I should remember I would sometimes have meltdowns before this; I believe I felt guilty about them but again, it all feels like another lifetime. There was at least a shift though, I would start to become false angry. I would act very angry while feeling nothing on the inside. It's not quite an act, it would be beneficial to everyone if I stopped being like this, but I cannot. Everything seems to have gotten worse since 7th grade, but I believe my false anger is becoming more controllable. I can now stop yelling for a bit and talk rationally.

    The beginning of the antisocial (not to be confused with asocial) behavior started around mid-2019. There was this guy I was quite fond of online, we'll call him ExF, short for ex-friend. He started to pull away from me and I tried to keep the friendship alive. Now this all sounds nice and all but the problem started when I would harass him in servers with my fetish. I would frequently ask him questions about it, talk about uh... doing stuff, don't want to be too NSFW because that's not the point of this thread + I'm only 16. He made it very clear to me that he found it disgusting and that it made him feel bad.

    I would frequently claim I was sorry but never truly was, I never stopped even if he blocked me. I do remember a shift in the way I experienced attachment to people. It used to feel meaningful, fulfilling, but that slowly started to go away. The reason I was so fond of him was because it would distract me from the emptiness I felt inside, knowing about him, et.c. I even call him my "not-crush" (I am incapable of romantic love). Eventually it escalated into me making alternate accounts to stalk him and gather information. I told people online about it and they said it was a terrible thing to do, so I stopped.

    I don't quite remember what I felt when I stopped stalking him. I even admitted to it. Eventually he completed pulled away from me, and we stopped talking since. It would ruin my day if he said something like "idc," so I had to be the one to stop talking to him because it was seriously bad for my mental health. Eventually, deleted all his messages with me, and that's when I knew it was truly over. That's when the boredom magnified. Parents would restrict my access to the internet and I got extremely bored and false angry. I tried to pick up many offline hobbies but none quite captivated me.

    To this day, I am highly irresponsible, even accounting for my age. I have hurt my puppy and threatened to do worse to her because she was in the way when arguing with my parents. I do not feel remorseful/guilty/empathetic about it, but acknowledge it's immoral. When I think about what I did, it's like "Meh, whatever." I do not really want to be a monster, but I feel like it is inevitable.

    What do you guys make out of all of this?
    Autistic psychopath has become a misnomer. Psychopathy used to mean any mental problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    any mental problem.
    And synonymous for a person with unwanted political opinions.
    "The society that separates it's scholars from it's warriors will have it's thinking done by cowards and it's fighting by fools." ―Thucydides

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    I guess they are technically possible? I do not know too much about this, but the question of ToM/mentalization would be pretty interesting for someone who has "both."

    I also think sociopath/psychopath can be kind of subjective? As no diagnosis of such name exists.


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    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    I guess they are technically possible? I do not know too much about this, but the question of ToM/mentalization would be pretty interesting for someone who has "both."

    I also think sociopath/psychopath can be kind of subjective? As no diagnosis of such name exists.
    Well there kinda is antisocial pd; but there's some distinction between them all; I don't really get it myself honestly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTriz View Post
    Well there kinda is antisocial pd; but there's some distinction between them all; I don't really get it myself honestly.
    Yeah I wouldn’t personally label everyone with ASPD as sociopath


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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTriz View Post
    Well there kinda is antisocial pd; but there's some distinction between them all; I don't really get it myself honestly.
    R. Hare's definition is the best there is regarding this subject. Since we're not psychiatrists we can discuss the topic openly no matter if it's featured in the DSM or not. It's just structured that way to make it seem arcane to the general pleb.
    "The society that separates it's scholars from it's warriors will have it's thinking done by cowards and it's fighting by fools." ―Thucydides

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    Not a psychologist, but do you have any experience studying personality disorders? I'm not saying you are misdiagnosed with autism (though you could certainly look into that with a professional and research on your own)--but the majority of what you're describing sounds like Histrionic and/or Antisocial tendencies, and would not likely be the sole result of being on the Spectrum. You might also want to talk to Nanashi, as she has experience working with people who demonstrate dark tetrad traits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aciaradh View Post
    You might also want to talk to Nanashi, as she has experience working with people dark tetrad traits.
    I'd avoid that, she's just gonna verbally abuse him while flicking her bean furiously. At least that's what I imagine she does.
    "The society that separates it's scholars from it's warriors will have it's thinking done by cowards and it's fighting by fools." ―Thucydides

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    Quote Originally Posted by aciaradh View Post
    Not a psychologist, but do you have any experience studying personality disorders? I'm not saying you are misdiagnosed with autism (though you could certainly look into that with a professional and research on your own)--but the majority of what you're describing sounds like Histrionic and/or Antisocial tendencies, and would not likely be the sole result of being on the Spectrum. You might also want to talk to Nanashi, as she has experience working with people who demonstrate dark tetrad traits.
    Somewhat, I used to think I was schizoid about a year ago. And yeah, I noticed I had histrionic and antisocial tendencies recently. Maybe this changing my mind shows it's just a puberty thing, dunno, only time will tell. Did not know that about nanashi though, neat.

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    You remind me a little of how I was at that age. It seems like you're lonely and don't have much experience interacting with others. Are you homeschooled?

    It sounds like you do feel remorse for how you act. You obviously don't want to be how you are, so it might be helpful to think about why you do act like that. I would guess it's related to a feeling that you don't control anything in your life, but you should try to figure that out for yourself. Once you have a better understanding of your motivations it's easier to understand how to change how you act.

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    https://focus.psychiatryonline.org/d...focus.11.2.178

    here is something might be of interest. im sure lit exists on autism and mentalization too. You can contrast the two. Those authors (esp Bateman and Fonagy) I linked are responsible for "mentalization" construct/lit. Look up more of their stuff. You can also call it empathy, perspective taking, theory of mind. They may not be precisely the same thing but they get at the general gist of what you talked about in OP.

    you're in high school? Maybe you can direct some of these questions to your teachers? Share only what is appropriate ofc.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlier View Post
    I'd avoid that, she's just gonna verbally abuse him while flicking her bean furiously. At least that's what I imagine she does.
    I..wholeheartedly disagree. I understand that people can be put off by emotional trigger responses that make them feel uncomfortable, but as it's a response rooted in trauma and something she's aware of and been working, that's pretty unfair to categorize it as a sadistic action she consciously employs to attack others. Growing up in abusive households can often that effect on people, where perceived threats are viewed as an attack one's autonomy and psyche. It's something I have a lot of empathy for her about, as it's something which I can relate to much more so than ideal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    You remind me a little of how I was at that age. It seems like you're lonely and don't have much experience interacting with others. Are you homeschooled?

    It sounds like you do feel remorse for how you act. You obviously don't want to be how you are, so it might be helpful to think about why you do act like that. I would guess it's related to a feeling that you don't control anything in your life, but you should try to figure that out for yourself. Once you have a better understanding of your motivations it's easier to understand how to change how you act.
    idk if im lonely, I go to public school and ignore people and they ignore me. I think I act out of this out of boredom and deep unfulfillment but i dunno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    https://focus.psychiatryonline.org/d...focus.11.2.178

    here is something might be of interest. im sure lit exists on autism and mentalization too. You can contrast the two. Those authors (esp Bateman and Fonagy) I linked are responsible for "mentalization" construct/lit. Look up more of their stuff. You can also call it empathy, perspective taking, theory of mind. They may not be precisely the same thing but they get at the general gist of what you talked about in OP.

    you're in high school? Maybe you can direct some of these questions to your teachers? Share only what is appropriate ofc.
    Huh interesting, will look at it today. And yeah I'm in high school; don't see how my teachers could help but thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTriz View Post
    idk if im lonely, I go to public school and ignore people and they ignore me. I think I act out of this out of boredom and deep unfulfillment but i dunno.
    Could you involve yourself in any extracurriculars?

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    I don't know. It's considered a spectrum and you will probably find someone that claims to be autistic and psychopathic and has a psychiatric or psychologist to back that claim up.

    But generally, from my experience of myself anyway and how I see the world and other people generally, I have a lot of empathy, but it's detached. I have to process things after the fact to understand how other people really feel and how I feel about them. And this, imo, makes me more empathetic because I generally end up with a more deeper understanding of people's emotions and their motivations. Normal people will process in the moment and after the moment, but they will spend less time processing after the moment. So in a way their empathy can be less at times when they are only concerned with momentary feelings or building rapport, but I will come off socially awkward or retarded for not building rapport very easily as well (which sometimes is just much easier than having to overthink everything). A psychopath will also process in the moment and can build rapport, but will spend little, if any time, processing after the fact. So if autistics are socially retarded, but can be highly empathetic, then psychopaths are empathy retards, but can be social butterflies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Could you involve yourself in any extracurriculars?
    no dude it's still virtual school cuz of Covid-19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    I don't know. It's considered a spectrum and you will probably find someone that claims to be autistic and psychopathic and has a psychiatric or psychologist to back that claim up.

    But generally, from my experience of myself anyway and how I see the world and other people generally, I have a lot of empathy, but it's detached. I have to process things after the fact to understand how other people really feel and how I feel about them. And this, imo, makes me more empathetic because I generally end up with a more deeper understanding of people's emotions and their motivations. Normal people will process in the moment and after the moment, but they will spend less time processing after the moment. So in a way their empathy can be less at times when they are only concerned with momentary feelings or building rapport, but I will come off socially awkward or retarded for not building rapport very easily as well (which sometimes is just much easier than having to overthink everything). A psychopath will also process in the moment and can build rapport, but will spend little, if any time, processing after the fact. So if autistics are socially retarded, but can be highly empathetic, then psychopaths are empathy retards, but can be social butterflies.
    Yeah I mentioned the last part; I'm socially and empathically retarded was my point; among other things

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    I think autists mainly have trouble with looking at things from others' point of view, while psychopaths have difficulties with understanding (or "feeling") others' emotions. Apparently the former is called "cognitive empathy" and the latter is called "affective empathy". You could potentially have trouble with both.

    My view is that either are "emulation" or "virtualization" of the brain. You're playing it in your head that are 1) imagining what the other person might be thinking and 2) imagining what the other person might be feeling. This comes from the assumption that if you can think a certain way, then the other person can too, and if you can feel a certain way, then the other person can feel it too. Because both are likely to have the exact same "hardware" (the brain), and so both have the potential to "run" or "execute" the exact same things (the software).

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    Sounds twisted. Apparently by searching more material around this there are more examples of this. The problem is probably that people mix autism with personality quirks (personality disorders are more fitting).
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    Just to be clear, have you consulted a doctor for your condition (autism and/or possible psychopathy)?
    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Just to be clear, have you consulted a doctor for your condition (autism and/or possible psychopathy)?
    Yeah I did a psychological evaluation and my old neurologist diagnosed me with autism when I was 12; still yet to bring up the antisocial behavior to my therapist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTriz View Post
    Yeah I did a psychological evaluation and my old neurologist diagnosed me with autism when I was 12; still yet to bring up the antisocial behavior to my therapist.
    I see. Thanks for clarifying.

    When you keep mostly to yourself and not get involved with the reality of life, there is a tendency to lose your self and have a lot of thoughts that are not really realistic. You might also develop the habit of having some delusions.

    Admitting that you are an attention-seeker and acting like so is mostly what I see in young kids when they don't get attention they need from parents. Sometimes they get into some good relationships with their classmates but they act too needy or their perceptions of relationship is way different than what it really is. I don't really know how to fix this as I'm not a therapist but it would be good to have someone older who can do the mentorship role to help the kid get into the right direction. Having someone more mature who you can turn to for advice is important for overall development. If you don't have that just be aware of the situation and maybe ask some older, well-meaning people here to help you with your problems. If you are close to your parents, talk to them as much as possible. Some people have problems with their parents - parents don't listen to children's concerns sometimes or not empathize with their children because of many reasons. If that happens try to avoid pouring your feelings out and make conversations civil but fun.
    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    I see. Thanks for clarifying.

    When you keep mostly to yourself and not get involved with the reality of life, there is a tendency to lose your self and have a lot of thoughts that are not really realistic. You might also develop the habit of having some delusions.

    Admitting that you are an attention-seeker and acting like so is mostly what I see in young kids when they don't get attention they need from parents. Sometimes they get into some good relationships with their classmates but they act too needy or their perceptions of relationship is way different than what it really is. I don't really know how to fix this as I'm not a therapist but it would be good to have someone older who can do the mentorship role to help the kid get into the right direction. Having someone more mature who you can turn to for advice is important for overall development. If you don't have that just be aware of the situation and maybe ask some older, well-meaning people here to help you with your problems. If you are close to your parents, talk to them as much as possible. Some people have problems with their parents - parents don't listen to children's concerns sometimes or not empathize with their children because of many reasons. If that happens try to avoid pouring your feelings out and make conversations civil but fun.
    Interesting that you picked up on me not having a realistic worldview. My relation with my parents is kinda fucked up in a way that's hard to describe. I don't know any opportunities for mentorship. Thank you.

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    Didn't you know that there's a bit of psychopath in all of us....?
    https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbkx...ut-psychopaths
    "The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new. " - Socrates

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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE View Post
    Didn't you know that there's a bit of psychopath in all of us....?
    https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbkx...ut-psychopaths
    Well yeah but I'm not talking about harmless or minor stuff; I'm talking about an actual problem. Also, I cannot access the link from the computer I'm using. Am not allowed to use any device that would let me access it.

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    We have those kinds of things labelled because there is a tendency for us to ruin society when those traits get overemphasized. Traits are not black and white.
    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTriz View Post
    Well yeah but I'm not talking about harmless or minor stuff; I'm talking about an actual problem. Also, I cannot access the link from the computer I'm using. Am not allowed to use any device that would let me access it.
    Contemplating being a psychopath does not maketh one.
    "The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new. " - Socrates

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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE View Post
    Contemplating being a psychopath does not maketh one.
    False, psychopaths can lack self-awareness. The thing that makes someone extremely unlikely to be a psychopath is worrying about it. I do not worry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTriz View Post
    False, psychopaths can lack self-awareness. The thing that makes someone extremely unlikely to be a psychopath is worrying about it. I do not worry.
    Why make a public thread on it then?
    "The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new. " - Socrates

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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE View Post
    Why make a public thread on it then?
    Attention whoring + hope that I can be changed.

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    I suggest that you try inquiry and the Work of Byron Katie (starting with parents), not to become more or less of a monster but to gain clarity. It is for free and there is a supportive online community. Oftentimes complex PTSD is diagnosed as autism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalinoche buenanoche View Post
    I suggest that you try inquiry and the Work of Byron Katie (starting with parents), not to become more or less of a monster but to gain clarity. It is for free and there is a supportive online community. Oftentimes complex PTSD is diagnosed as autism.
    I don't think I've been through trauma or abuse. Maybe I'm just a dumbass teenager going through a phase. Only time will tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTriz View Post
    I don't think I've been through trauma or abuse
    People experience these things differently due to varying degrees of sensitivity etc. Almost everyone has experienced stress that keeps being carried. In a way, it is part of the human condition. Also, it is not about pointing the finger and whatnot.

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