Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 54 of 54

Thread: Trinitarians, explain the trinity.

  1. #41
    so lost I need NiTe myself one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Home
    TIM
    ILI-Ni
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I remember when I went to a mass when I was a kid and heard of the trinity, it was surprisingly enlightening and made a lot of sense to me. I am not really a Catholic but it’s something to appreciate I guess. In my view it was a necessary teaching because Catholicism encourages to be in the liking of God, and the Holy Spirit is the manifestation of God around and within us. Believing that God takes on the form of the Holy Spirit is supposed to mean that Goodness is not something you can only admire and wish to become. It is something attainable if you only you choose to do good.

    There is always the concept of the material and spiritual, above and below, and it’s kind of the same thing in the Trinity, with Son as the bridge. You can visualize is as God (perfection) descending to Jesus and to Holy Spirit. Perfection is like the Plato’s concept of form which is out of this world, it is only shown to us by and through the form of Jesus, who is alike God and yet has human form. The Holy Spirit is the final form. It is also nice to note that the more you go down a level, the more the concept has a better reach. Holy Spirit encompasses everyone and everything in this world for example, Jesus only existed and interacted with the people in his time. The more you translate the ideal to physical form, it gets modified but it becomes more it is attainable to us humans. (Imagine exclusive to mass scale production). It’s like the rays that you always see on Catholic arts too, the single point of light gets scattered as rays. Light disperses but becomes more encompassing.

    I’m not sure if Catholics believe in it in a sense that they are supposed to be real. I don’t think they are, they are just bound to explain an phenomenon. I also see Heaven as just our innate need to go back to perfection or to that single point. This is why some religions also mention the concept of being one with the universe. It’s related to what I mentioned above, our manifestation here seeks the actual perfection from above. Dispersed elements want to be a single point again and that there is a innate knowledge that they come from one source.

    Really hope it wasn’t that gibberish, it’s hard to translate it to words and I’m on my mobile
    R

  2. #42
    so lost I need NiTe myself one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Home
    TIM
    ILI-Ni
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I realized shotgun also mentioned Plato. I really do think he was talking about the same thing. It was the phenomenon I was talking about. We have this concept of perfection, the conclusion is that you cannot reach it but there will always be a pull towards it. Now philosophers have thought a lot about what constitutes perfection. That is the difficult part that gets addressed by Plato, Catholicism and others - it is something out of this world though you can see glimpses of it in your daily life. It is our guiding force. We just name it as God or Truth or something else because we cannot pinpoint or describe it in detail, because after all it is unreachable.

    But what is interesting here is that there are some things we can do to get us nearer to it. It can take in a form of a very great art, some groundbreaking discovery in science, improvement in systems. The idea is that we are just trying to go back to the source/perfection one action at a time. This is why we also talk about Good and Bad. Bad strays us from perfection. Goodness in behavior comes in a form of Virtues. You can also say the same thing when it comes to more technical stuff, like for example bad (as in illogical) mathematical proof will move you from the Good.
    Last edited by one; 03-26-2021 at 01:38 AM.
    R

  3. #43
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    3,215
    Mentioned
    316 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default St. Augustine at the Saeashore

    @FreelancePoliceman, I posted this before but can't find it now so here it is again. Do you know this story?

    Saint Augustine of Hippo (354-430), bishop, confessor, Doctor of the Church, and one of the Four Great Fathers of the Latin Church. He is at times referred to as the Doctor of Grace. One of the most influential thinkers and writers of the Church, Augustine’s legacy in written works numbers at over 100 books, and 5,000,000 words! Within those words, the philosophy and virtues of our faith are revealed, inspiring us to a closer relationship with the Lord. The conversion of Saint Augustine, following years of sinful living, reminds us that we, too, are called to daily conversion… and that it is never too late to fully turn to the Lord!


    .................................................. .................................................. .........................

    Saint Augustine was walking by the seashore, contemplating the mystery of the Trinity. Then he saw a boy in front of him who had dug a hole in the sand and was going out to the sea again and again and bringing some water to pour into the hole., and putting water in it. St. Augustine asked him, “What are you doing?” “I’m going to pour the entire ocean into this hole.” “That is impossible, the whole ocean will not fit in the hole you have made” said St. Augustine. The boy replied,
    “And you cannot fit the Trinity in your tiny little brain.” And the boy vanished, and St. Augustine knew he had been talking to an angel.



    .................................................. ...........................
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______

    Some thoughts of St. Augustine on the Holy Trinity:

    - Augustine says that “the Trinity, my God — Father, and Son, and Holy Spirit [is] Creator of the entire creation.” So God the Father creates with and through God the Son and God the Spirit, giving the divine persons co-equal tribute for the creation of all things. This, for Augustine, is derived from the statement, “let us make man in our image”

    - For Augustine, a living relationship with Christ must include reconciliation to God through the payment for sins. This is why the Son of God “appeared among mortal sinners as the immortal righteous one, mortal like humanity, righteous like God. Because the wages of righteousness are life and peace (Romans 6:23).” Christ “came into the Virgin’s womb . . . so that mortal flesh should not for ever be mortal.”

    - Augustine explains that the Holy Spirit is the giver of the knowledge of God. Hostile-minded unbelievers “do not see your works with the help of your Spirit and do not recognize you in them.” No one knows or loves the things of God except through receiving his Spirit.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  4. #44
    Moharu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    TIM
    ILI? - Ne?
    Posts
    210
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    I realized shotgun also mentioned Plato. I really do think he was talking about the same thing. It was the phenomenon I was talking about. We have this concept of perfection, the conclusion is that you cannot reach it but there will always be a pull towards it. Now philosophers have thought a lot about what constitutes perfection. That is the difficult part that gets addressed by Plato, Catholicism and others - it is something out of this world though you can see glimpses of it in your daily life. It is our guiding force. We just name it as God or Truth or something else because we cannot pinpoint or describe it in detail, because after all it is unreachable.


    But what is interesting here is that there are some things we can do to get us nearer to it. It can take in a form of a very great art, some groundbreaking discovery in science, improvement in systems. The idea is that we are just trying to go back to the source/perfection one action at a time. This is why we also talk about Good and Bad. Bad strays us from perfection. Goodness in behavior comes in a form of Virtues. You can also say the same thing when it comes to more technical stuff, like for example bad (as in illogical) mathematical proof will move you from the Good.
    I think perfection is different in each person's point of view. Not everyone want the same thing, walk the same path. Calling something "God" or "ultimate truth", and then say that is what everyone want, or should want is just... well, forceful. We are individuals, at least I think so.

  5. #45
    so lost I need NiTe myself one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Home
    TIM
    ILI-Ni
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    I think perfection is different in each person's point of view. Not everyone want the same thing, walk the same path. Calling something "God" or "ultimate truth", and then say that is what everyone want, or should want is just... well, forceful. We are individuals, at least I think so.
    That's religion for you. Religions have certain ideas of what perfection should be like.

    But anyway I can't say I don't have an idea of that in my head too. I have a thought that there is also that one ideal and we just approach it in different ways but I cannot prove that though so it will just stay as a thought (albeit a very persistent one).
    R

  6. #46
    Moharu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    TIM
    ILI? - Ne?
    Posts
    210
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    That's religion for you. Religions have certain ideas of what perfection should be like.

    But anyway I can't say I don't have an idea of that in my head too. I have a thought that there is also that one ideal and we just approach it in different ways but I cannot prove that though so it will just stay as a thought (albeit a very persistent one).
    We approach things in different ways is what make thing different. For exp: you and I both know object A. In an objective way both know it's weight X kg, height Y meter, was create by material Z blah blah. In a subjective way, you love it, I don't like it; you think it's meanful, I see it as bullshit... and it's all normal.

    But to have an
    absolutely objective point of view in order to obtain the one "Truth", you have to completely remove your ego, and when you do that, perfection is meaningless, because "absolutely truth" may not has a concept like "perfection", because we human create that concept. Whatever happen, you will not be yourself anymore

  7. #47
    so lost I need NiTe myself one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Home
    TIM
    ILI-Ni
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    We approach things in different ways is what make thing different.
    You can say the same thing with solving a problem, though if you follow the right logic you still get the same answer.
    R

  8. #48
    Moharu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    TIM
    ILI? - Ne?
    Posts
    210
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    You can say the same thing with solving a problem, though if you follow the right logic you still get the same answer.
    There are many ways to solve a problem, but it's depend on the person to choose what method fit them the best. Someone just choose one method over another just because they "love" that method more. Personal feeling play a huge role here

  9. #49
    so lost I need NiTe myself one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Home
    TIM
    ILI-Ni
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    There are many ways to solve a problem, but it's depend on the person to choose what method fit them the best. Someone just choose one method over another just because they "love" that method more. Personal feeling play a huge role here
    The point is the outcome might still the same no matter the method used.
    R

  10. #50
    Moharu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    TIM
    ILI? - Ne?
    Posts
    210
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    The point is the outcome might still the same no matter the method used.
    I don't think so, different choices, different outcome, we can't be so sure. But from my (Fi) point of view, no matter what outcome, as long as I made the choices base on my own values and feeling (Fi), then I will not regret it, even if it end ugly for me.

    off topic, I have a feeling that you value Ti> Fi??

  11. #51
    so lost I need NiTe myself one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Home
    TIM
    ILI-Ni
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    off topic, I have a feeling that you value Ti> Fi??
    I only asked a few people here with my vid, took a few tests and read few books to consider ILI as typing. But I'm open for new opinions regarding my type. Got typed by WSS a year back iirc and I was typed ILE. Thinking of getting typed by Gulenko this year maybe, though I'm still mulling about it.

    You have guess idea which type I am?
    R

  12. #52
    Moharu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    TIM
    ILI? - Ne?
    Posts
    210
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    I only asked a few people here with my vid, took a few tests and read few books to consider ILI as typing. But I'm open for new opinions regarding my type. Got typed by WSS a year back iirc and I was typed ILE. Thinking of getting typed by Gulenko this year maybe, though I'm still mulling about it.

    You have guess idea which type I am?
    When you talk about the problems from your work, you remind me of an LII I've known.

  13. #53
    so lost I need NiTe myself one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Home
    TIM
    ILI-Ni
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    When you talk about the problems from your work, you remind me of an LII I've known.
    That's something to consider. @Adam Strange (hope you don't mind the ping) typed me that too initially.
    My only problem with that typing is the IR. I'm so annoyed at ESEs every time, sometimes SEIs too. There is still a chance I'm typing them wrong though. Also the LIIs here on this forum I see as very stuck up and dogmatic while I'm chill as fuck (hope they don't get mad and start another thread war lol). There is also a chance they are wrong with their typings or this is not type related at all.
    R

  14. #54
    Moharu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    TIM
    ILI? - Ne?
    Posts
    210
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    That's something to consider. @Adam Strange (hope you don't mind the ping) typed me that too initially.
    My only problem with that typing is the IR. I'm so annoyed at ESEs every time, sometimes SEIs too. There is still a chance I'm typing them wrong though. Also the LIIs here on this forum I see as very stuck up and dogmatic while I'm chill as fuck (hope they don't get mad and start another thread war lol). There is also a chance they are wrong with their typings or this is not type related at all.
    I always think about LII as "chill", they are fun to hang around with in daily life if they really want to. But when it come to work they are kind of very serious, always want things to work perfectly, criticize others and the system of the workplace alot... I'm more selfish, as long as I get the money and didn't get fire, I'm not really care if I'm working at my best or not.

    P/s: I tested one a little bit and she seem to value Se/not so Se polr
    Last edited by Moharu; 03-27-2021 at 10:34 AM.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •