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Thread: SLEs: Expectation vs. Reality

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    Decisive Queen StarPath's Avatar
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    Post SLEs: Expectation vs. Reality

    In Socionics descriptions, SLEs are portrayed as brash leader-types. Their designation as The LeaderTM is actually very similar to that of MBTI's ENTJ. Socionics's ENTJ is somewhat different than MBTI's ENTJ. However, I have been hearing stuff about how SLEs are not always this "top leader type" that they are described as. They are described as being very impulsive and disobedient sometimes.

    It seems as if there are two types of stereotypes of SLEs: the bad boy and the commander. What are SLEs like in reality? Are they much more balanced than how they are often described?
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    Some SLEs are more chill and like to have fun. You forgot that subtype. They can still go into asshole mode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StarPath View Post
    In Socionics descriptions, SLEs are portrayed as brash leader-types. Their designation as The LeaderTM is actually very similar to that of MBTI's ENTJ. Socionics's ENTJ is somewhat different than MBTI's ENTJ. However, I have been hearing stuff about how SLEs are not always this "top leader type" that they are described as. They are described as being very impulsive and disobedient sometimes.

    It seems as if there are two types of stereotypes of SLEs: the bad boy and the commander. What are SLEs like in reality? Are they much more balanced than how they are often described?
    These are not really opposites. If you prioritize what you want above everything, it makes sense for you to impose that on others to some degree. Whether you are obedient to those above you is another question.

    As for seriousness and willingness to participate in a hierarchy, it just varies among SLEs.

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    For me socionic is the system of abstraction. It's more like philosophy, not statistical psychology or scientific biology. Concrete implementation depends on entity. We can't talk about what function is in reality, we can only talk about what it is from the standpoint of somebody (or group).
    From my standpoint, you can't be Fi-polr without being Ti/Fe EP temperament. SLE, who is like ENTj, ESTj, ISFj, INFj - are not my dual. There can't be common ground between us. Using force to aim for static goal is not something I would expect from SLE. They use force to got what they want - there is impulse, there is reaction. If somebody is stubborn about objectives without any arguments, he is unlikely to be ExTp ("because it is what I identify with/is right" is not what I term as argument here)

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    Decisive Queen StarPath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diplomatic Heretic View Post
    For me socionic is the system of abstraction. It's more like philosophy, not statistical psychology or scientific biology. Concrete implementation depends on entity. We can't talk about what function is in reality, we can only talk about what it is from the standpoint of somebody (or group).
    From my standpoint, you can't be Fi-polr without being Ti/Fe EP temperament. SLE, who is like ENTj, ESTj, ISFj, INFj - are not my dual. There can't be common ground between us. Using force to aim for static goal is not something I would expect from SLE. They use force to got what they want - there is impulse, there is reaction. If somebody is stubborn about objectives without any arguments, he is unlikely to be ExTp ("because it is what I identify with/is right" is not what I term as argument here)
    I see what you are saying here. Maybe I am thinking too much in terms of stereotypes about SLEs. When I think of the stereotypical SLE, I think of Napoleon Bonaparte. Ambitious, productive, a natural leader, brash, and very assertive. Maybe Napoleon is a bit of an extreme example of a SLE. An ENTJ 8w7 SLE will probably be somewhat different than an ESTP 7w6 SLE.
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    My interest in historical figures is low, so I would Talking nonsense here. Bonaparte seems to be high se and fi Type. Mayby ESFp

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    His insecurites boosted his SeTe to hyperactivity, giving him a lot of unstable power

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    I'm all of the above. My ambition in life is to lead people and create big things. I was raised to be a leader by my family and spent time in leadership training as a teenager. At the same time, I have no interest in formal hierarchies or integrating into existent power structures; I want to be a leader within counterculture. I don't write up five year plans for success like an LIE might, no. That level of foresight and systematic planning is not how I work by nature. What I do is identify the present objective, cut away all secondary concerns, and start taking action immediately. People naturally follow whoever confidently takes action and starts issuing directives. I rely a lot on my natural charisma, presence, and ability to identify what is essential to success to lead people.

    "Impulsive and disobedient" describes me when I'm around authority I don't respect. I do tend to be shortsighted about challenging people I dislike, even when it puts me at a disadvantage. Getting "disciplined" by someone in power is a point of pride for me when it happens. I am not anti-authoritarian as a rule, though. I'm just highly critical of most people in power and most power structures. Any authority I might hold will be on my own terms, of course, so I won't reject it. I want the world to run by my ideas of what is just and logical.

    Maybe you can think of it as two "modes." When I'm having fun I'm rebellious, hedonistic, living in the moment, starting playful conflicts, and being generally irreverent and loose. When I actually want to accomplish something, I'm suddenly disciplined, serious, task-focused, and strategic about engaging in conflict. I get my shit together rapidly and sober up when situations call for it, taking over and making hard decisions from a detached viewpoint. Otherwise, I see no point in occupying the "commander" persona 24/7. It's always available when I want it, but being the bad boi is my more relaxed state. Both states of mind are necessary for getting the most out of life. I enjoy both the pursuit of victory and the celebration afterwards.

    A couple footnotes:

    My father is also SLE and he's the same way. He held a strategist-type position near the top of a formal hierarchy and was very serious and determined about his work, yet he also is very playful and fun loving off the clock. He easily switches between 200iq tactical thinking and gleefully enjoying a myriad of high speed activities.

    The goals I have are still based around creating intense physical experiences, i.e. starting an aggressive metalcore band and organizing BDSM parties. I'm disciplined and driven in the pursuit of debauchery and excess. It may be most accurate to say SLEs both work hard and play hard, and knowing both sides is essential to understanding us.
    Last edited by euphoricfilth; 03-11-2021 at 07:44 AM.

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    Like any other type, they contain multitudes. The people, and the situations, that surround you can also mould the facet of the type that you are most attached to at a certain time. All those daddy issues and abandonment, mmm, SLEs are not immune to them ; ))
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    In general, SLEs make far better scouts or explorers than they do leaders. They're not usually that well planned and if they do manage to complete a plan, they don't often stick to it. Eps are usually steered by incoming information, which can induce significant amount of randomness into their leadership style; many become rather adept at changing horses mid-stream, which may confound many of their subordinates. Now for those who're simply willing to tag along for the ride, some SLEs can provide a lot of insight and or excitement. However, in a corporate sense, most seem to work best as lone wolves - knights that report back to King Arthur.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    98% of the time SLEs are very clever and caring people. Their best state is when their sort of inner child come off. The rest 2% well... they can overdo their Se and Fi even for me. I found that really REALLY old thread about ESTps there's much sugaring but most of it is true
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-point-of-view

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