What's the solution to atomization?

[SGF]

Whats more, feminism is perceived as henpecking because feminists don't understand men and how to motivate them.

To be fair. I think MGTOW is equally bad and seems to urge men to "go their own way" and sterilize themselves. Literally telling guys to walk into a dead-end alley and to give into materialistic hedonism. Relations between the sexes are very screwed up.

[Rusal]

I'm glad that someone brought up Jordan Peterson. I also criticize him a lot for his political views, views on women's place in society, views on race and IQ, selective crticism of censorship, and for his bumbling attempts to demonstrate expertise outside of his own field.

But, in his haphazard and imprecise way, keeping in mind that his writings act like a Rorschach test, he has put his finger on the crisis of modern masculinity.

Peterson made it big, but he is not the first – the likes of Christina Hoff Summers probably came first.

‘Education tailored for males’; ‘role models’, doesn’t stop there; from the idea of a male psyche you’ll find proponents project for male children or non-academic males in general the same dispensations, reediting boys will be boys. From special competitive environments for young boys because they feel more encouraged to learn that way from not being bad woman pestering your husband when he’s watching football because men bond with his peers through collective sports or whatever. Now feminism doesn’t only have to help and save women but also think of men, but do it in a way that goes well with masculinity and panders to how special men think they are otherwise they’ll just hate women. And as I say this I’m completely aware of the victim mentality that seems to have taken over current politics and insular thinking in social activism organizations.

[xerxe]

To be fair. I think MGTOW is equally bad and seems to urge men to "go their own way" and sterilize themselves. Literally telling guys to walk into a dead-end alley and to give into materialistic hedonism. Relations between the sexes are very screwed up.

Yeah, MGTOW seems mostly like a dead end. Maybe that many people really are better suited to being monks, though.

Peterson made it big, but he is not the first – the likes of Christina Hoff Summers probably came first.

‘Education tailored for males’; ‘role models’, doesn’t stop there; from the idea of a male psyche you’ll find proponents project for male children or non-academic males in general the same dispensations, reediting boys will be boys. From special competitive environments for young boys because they feel more encouraged to learn that way from not being bad woman pestering your husband when he’s watching football because men bond with his peers through collective sports or whatever. Now feminism doesn’t only have to help and save women but also think of men, but do it in a way that goes well with masculinity and panders to how special men think they are otherwise they’ll just hate women. And as I say this I’m completely aware of the victim mentality that seems to have taken over current politics and insular thinking in social activism organizations.

Yeah, more focus on trades (this isn't just a funding issue, there's a weird social stigma against going into trades versus a traditional four year university), return of industrial jobs, more male teachers in schools, etc., ought to take care of some of the problem.

[xerxe]

This happens most of the time because the father is stupid and irresponsible (or maybe both of them are). But it's not like being a single mother is an inherently terrible thing. What if the other parent is a terrible person? Wouldn't having him/her at home just make things worse for the kids? I'd say it's a factor that women have more freedom now and can leave their spouses if they want to. And people can now easily break off relationships that don't serve them. Over time we are slowly breaking down barriers that limit us because we now know better.

Yeah, the alternative to divorce sounds much worse. But, children really do need both parents.

One solution would be to force the ex-couple to live close to each other. Preplanning of that magnitude would no doubt require a stupendous amount of city zoning / economic engineering, however.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Yeah, the alternative to divorce sounds much worse. But, children really do need both parents.

One solution would be to force the ex-couple to live close to each other. Preplanning of that magnitude would no doubt require a stupendous amount of city zoning / economic engineering, however.

Maybe people’s understanding of marriage should change. I think many people expect to find their soulmate and leave if there are problems rather than understand it as a commitment. So if problems come up they find it less effort to just leave rather than do whatever they can to repair the relationship.

[BrightDemonSheep96]

We are too simple for this sh#t. That's the root. People make it too complicated. Layers upon layers. The wealth gap between absolute top and others reflects our herd nature. When your farm grows too big it creates all sorts of management problems. Capability to understand others outside of own bubble gets twisted. Politicians have no idea what they do if they are grown to become ones.

[xerxe]

Maybe people’s understanding of marriage should change. I think many people expect to find their soulmate and leave if there are problems rather than understand it as a commitment. So if problems come up they find it less effort to just leave rather than do whatever they can to repair the relationship.

Maybe, I don't know. If religious folks capable of sustaining large families inherit the world, I guess that's one way.

[SGF]

Maybe, I don't know. If religious folks capable of sustaining large families inherit the world, I guess that's one way.

The amish population doubles every 20 years: http://groups.etown.edu/amishstudies...-profile-2020/

[lkdhf qkb]

I think that the most disturbing trend is that they've somehow shifted the tide of the argument, and now believe that men are the "victims" or being "left out". I think that this is a knee-jerk reaction to the fear of being "replaced" or "erased", that women will somehow "take over" them, in the same way that supremacists fear that they'll be "replaced" by other races and immigrants.

If women are doing somewhat better than men in this modern society, because it favors social intelligence and not brute strength, and women are performing better than men on education on average, then honestly I don't know what to say. What is the positive vision for men, especially those that are struggling to "keep up" with women? Should they try to learn to be more like women, or should they keep on insisting their "masculinity"? I find it to be a hopeless case to lose.

The gender stereotype of how men think is that they think things linearly, and women think laterally, and that seems to be expressed in how they tend to organize their lives. And since the current society do not streamline how women tend to manage their lives, many women in modern society seem to struggle to juggle career, family, relationships, life, all at once. While men are confused and disorientated, because they're used to only doing one thing at a time.

Very nice diagnostic of the situation of some men. Have you noticed that it's mostly male Te-egos that have those problems? They be like 'what is my task? I don't have a task... no one understands me' And instead of dealing with those fears of helplessness and incompetency, they run to JP to tell them what to do. Like afraid little boys to their papa.

For clarity's sake, what I meant by 'positive vision' is a vision that promotes movement or transformation, as opposed to a 'negative vision', which promotes restrictions on behaviour or otherwise. A positive vision can be "good" or "bad", and history is replete with examples of both. A negative vision can also be good or bad. Traffic laws are an example of a negative vision that's good -- nobody buys a car because they're eager to obey traffic traffic laws, but traffic laws are a good thing that make sense. Likewise, anti-rape laws promote a negative vision that's unequivocally and unambiguously good.

There are a lot of positive examples of masculinity out there. It's just that a fringe of men(well echoed on the other side by extreme feminists) want the world to cater to their insecurities exclusively.

Teaching your children




Helping weak people





Hanging with the bros once you actually achieved something

Defying danger to do your duty

[FreelancePoliceman]

The amish population doubles every 20 years: http://groups.etown.edu/amishstudies...-profile-2020/

https://youtu.be/yK3oWQfb_2M

[SGF]

There are a lot of positive examples of masculinity out there. It's just that a fringe of men(well echoed on the other side by extreme feminists) want the world to cater to their insecurities exclusively.

Teaching your children




Helping weak people





Hanging with the bros once you actually achieved something

Defying danger to do your duty

wow comrade.. you are so damn right!

[lkdhf qkb]

wow comrade.. you are so damn right!

Thanks my lovely comrade, you and me, we are all one!

I don't know if that's your way of joking or just misundertanding or rather a manipulation tactic paving the way to my ideological submission to your BS americanism by putting your words in my mouth. I never said that the examples I provide are antithetical with political promulgation whether from Putin or any other politician.

[SGF]

Thanks my lovely comrade, you and me, we are all one!

I don't know if that's your way of joking or just misundertanding or rather a manipulation tactic paving the way to my ideological submission to your BS americanism by putting your words in my mouth. I never said that the examples I provide are antithetical with political promulgation whether from Putin or any other politician.

I'm having fun e_e y so serious?

[lkdhf qkb]

Well there is some crazy partisanship about US politics on this forum so one can get kinda suspicious. I'm relieved haha