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Thread: Should Socionics go mainstream?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    A society of all Gammas would be incredibly shitty too. All the LIEs & ILIs would just totally suppress the ethical types and ESI can be pretty damn perverted and corrupt the entire thing as well. You need SLIs to keep the LIEs in balance.

    Makes better sense to keep opposing quadras away because there is no shared functions whatsoever for information exchange so there's too many misunderstandings and need to waste so much fucking time re-clarifying a single point where nothing can get done.
    I don’t know what you mean about LIE and ILI suppressing the ethicals as that doesn’t make sense. All Gammas have profit in mind but don’t seek to gain anything by suppressing others. Suppression from Gamma is to prevent others from fucking up and blowing up our spot. Betas like restricting others because dominance is their method to gain power- aristocratic and in favor of collectivism (the more in numbers the more powerful type of thinking). Gammas are democratic and there’s rejection of hierarchy because everyone is in equal footing but individuals are responsible for themselves and need to find ways to make it on their own. There’s a lot of free agency thats built in with Gamma.

    I’m ok with Gamma NTs suppressing and silencing Fe types cuz I hate Fe probably more than they do. Gamma society would function well on its own since it’ll be a society that’s practical and business savvy and since we’ve already purged the psychotic histrionic EIE from our sphere, we can accomplish some really important tasks like continue working on more quality of life stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolita View Post
    I don’t know what you mean about LIE and ILI suppressing the ethicals as that doesn’t make sense. All Gammas have profit in mind but don’t seek to gain anything by suppressing others. Suppression from Gamma is to prevent others from fucking up and blowing up our spot. Betas like restricting others because dominance is their method to gain power- aristocratic and in favor of collectivism (the more in numbers the more powerful type of thinking). Gammas are democratic and there’s rejection of hierarchy because everyone is in equal footing but individuals are responsible for themselves and need to find ways to make it on their own. There’s a lot of free agency thats built in with Gamma.

    I’m ok with Gamma NTs suppressing and silencing Fe types cuz I hate Fe probably more than they do. Gamma society would function well on its own since it’ll be a society that’s practical and business savvy and since we’ve already purged the psychotic histrionic EIE from our sphere, we can accomplish some really important tasks like continue working on more quality of life stuff.
    the problem with gamma is their massive waste of resources though. bc they lack Ti they can't really differentiate between necessary and unnecessary things. they also love excess and are prone to purchase worthless things simply because they can. production gets moved to asia because it's cheaper there but the labor conditions are horrible. beta actively surpresses freedom, gamma does it passively. our children are pretty much screwed because climate change is just around the corner but nobody wants to restrict their way of living in any way. we all want to travel, freedom, wealth etc. but it's not sustainable in the long run.

    regarding op, I think socionics will only go mainstream if types can be objectively determined, but I think this will still take a while since subtypes make the whole typing process tricky. this forum mostly constists of people that have an IQ of >120 yet most users here can't even figure out the type of the most obvious EIE's. it has a lot to do with pattern recognition. I don't expect normies to be capable of using the theory in a meaningful way at the moment.

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    For those of you worried about determining the exact types of people, I think I have a theory on that, and I don't think Socionics is simply a far-fetched pseudoscience.

    I think a person's sociotype is polygenetic, and can be modelled using ideas from evolution. I think of type as a multi-dimensional gradient that can be categorized imperfectly (like race, for example). Categorizing people using typology is similar to classifying living organisms. According to my zoology class, living organisms can be classified using morphology and physiology, and that is why people can tell a pigeon is a bird before they see one before. Socionics (and some other typological systems) work the same way. People can try to figure out a person's type using VI (like morphology), or cognitive functions (like physiology). The subject matter just happened to be a lot nuanced.

    However, there are limitations to morphology and physiology, and the boundaries between species might not even be distinct. Sometimes, you simply cannot tell things apart without a gene test, after all, seahorses are fish, and egg-laying mammals like platypuses are a thing. Heck, you can even remove feathers from a chicken, and it will no longer resemble its other living avian cousins. Therefore, phylogenetic trees are the modern approach to classification. By running gene tests on various species, computer algorithms can help sort the organisms by their genetic relatedness. This is exactly what Socionics is missing out on, and why some people are just really difficult to type.

    There are some hypothesis that can be made from this. First of all, I think identical types have similar genes, and desirable inter-type relations are a result of coevolution in similar ancient environments. This explains why inter-type relations are not perfect, and even mixed Quadras may have cooperated together in ancient times. However, I think if you sum up the compatibilities from various typological systems (some of which are not known yet), you might be able to get a pretty decent match (ex. an EII-D so/sx, and an LSE-N sx/sp). Another thing about types is that the distributions appear to be different according to a person's race and country (note: these are not perfect correlations). There seems to be a lot more LSIs in East Asian countries and SEEs in Western ones, and this explains the cultural differences between these countries pretty well. In fact, type distributions between different countries can even be used to trace the origins of different types.

    As a side note, type differences can be the result of either convergent evolution or genetic impurity. I think some types might be evolutionarily more novel than others, with SLE-Se D sx/so being one of the oldest chads lmao just using heuristics. Also, maybe type distributions are the result of selective pressures with rare types being less likely to survive due to whatever reasons in whichever time period.

    @FreelancePoliceman @megedy @Alomoes @Frddy @Alive @DeliMeat

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    Just for entertainment purposes, I'm going to describe a fictional society dominated by Quadra values (maybe someone can write a book on that):

    4000 years into the future, the land on this planet is equally divided into four continents, with one for each Quadra: Alpha Land, Beta Land, Gamma Land, and Delta Land. Each of these continents have a distinct culture, and is further subdivided into distinct countries based on hundreds of other typological parameters. The four Quadra are ruled by the World Government with elected officials from each continent on a yearly basis. Children on the planet are born in artificial incubators on a large island outside of the four continents, and are genetically selected to survive without parental help. After they are born from the sperm and egg bank, they receive a gene test to determine their type (with other parameters). They are then educated in mix Quadra schools on the island until the age of 12, and wear uniforms associated with their Quadra. Afterwards, they are sent into their respective continents:

    1. In Alpha Land (yellow team), the cities are divided into tiny cute French houses with video game cafes all over town. The schools there focus on language studies, abstract mathematics, culinary arts, and home economics. The country produces the majority of the World's food exports, and the people there are excellent foreign language interpreters (with an average person capable of speaking at least 5 languages). They also provide cleaning services for people of other continents. Be careful though, they may gossip behind your back in a language you don't understand! Alphas also produce intricate scientific theories that are borrowed by Gamma Landers for their new business ventures.

    2. In Beta Land (red team), the towns look like war torn ruins on the surface of the continent. However, a beautiful cyberpunk city runs underground for miles on end. The schools there focus on theatre arts, military strategy, war craftsmanship, and memorizing propaganda. Each year, 17-18 year old Beta Landers interested in joining the military must compete on the surface of their continent using weapons and strategies taught in school. The outcome of the tests will determine their military ranking but subsequent exams can alter things. Betas produce the majority of the World's military equipment. They are also invested in news reporting, music, and therapy for soldiers with PTSD from their battle exams.

    3. In Gamma Land (blue team), the cities there are covered by capitalistic skyscrapers. The schools there focus on business studies, engineering, making pop music, and seducing rich people. The schools take place in private companies, and lecture-based traditional classes are very limited. Due to the restless of the students however, 95% of them dropout of school anyways to pursue their own thing. A sizeable proportion of Gamma Landers become the world's major economic forecasters, business people, and entertainment providers. Also, prostitution is legal in Gamma Land, and both selling sex and compensated dating are actively encouraged ways of making money.

    4. In Delta Land (green team), the towns are made of wooden houses surrounded by natural scenery. The schools there focus on resource gathering, meditation, historical studies, and creative writing. Deltas are involved in fishing, logging, mining, hunting, and other ways of collecting resources, and many of these people often start working immediately after they land on the continent. Optional liberal art courses are available for people of all ages, and many of the graduating students become world renown writers and activists. Delta Landers places a lot of importance on respect and appreciation, and they spend four hours a week making ceremonies for people who suffered in the past due to any kind of injustice whatsoever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal View Post
    Just for entertainment purposes, I'm going to describe a fictional society dominated by Quadra values (maybe someone can write a book on that):

    4000 years into the future, the land on this planet is equally divided into four continents, with one for each Quadra: Alpha Land, Beta Land, Gamma Land, and Delta Land. Each of these continents have a distinct culture, and is further subdivided into distinct countries based on hundreds of other typological parameters. The four Quadra are ruled by the World Government with elected officials from each continent on a yearly basis. Children on the planet are born in artificial incubators on a large island outside of the four continents, and are genetically selected to survive without parental help. After they are born from the sperm and egg bank, they receive a gene test to determine their type (with other parameters). They are then educated in mix Quadra schools on the island until the age of 12, and wear uniforms associated with their Quadra. Afterwards, they are sent into their respective continents:

    1. In Alpha Land (yellow team), the cities are divided into tiny cute French houses with video game cafes all over town. The schools there focus on language studies, abstract mathematics, culinary arts, and home economics. The country produces the majority of the World's food exports, and the people there are excellent foreign language interpreters (with an average person capable of speaking at least 5 languages). They also provide cleaning services for people of other continents. Be careful though, they may gossip behind your back in a language you don't understand! Alphas also produce intricate scientific theories that are borrowed by Gamma Landers for their new business ventures.

    2. In Beta Land (red team), the towns look like war torn ruins on the surface of the continent. However, a beautiful cyberpunk city runs underground for miles on end. The schools there focus on theatre arts, military strategy, war craftsmanship, and memorizing propaganda. Each year, 17-18 year old Beta Landers interested in joining the military must compete on the surface of their continent using weapons and strategies taught in school. The outcome of the tests will determine their military ranking but subsequent exams can alter things. Betas produce the majority of the World's military equipment. They are also invested in news reporting, music, and therapy for soldiers with PTSD from their battle exams.

    3. In Gamma Land (blue team), the cities there are covered by capitalistic skyscrapers. The schools there focus on business studies, engineering, making pop music, and seducing rich people. The schools take place in private companies, and lecture-based traditional classes are very limited. Due to the restless of the students however, 95% of them dropout of school anyways to pursue their own thing. A sizeable proportion of Gamma Landers become the world's major economic forecasters, business people, and entertainment providers. Also, prostitution is legal in Gamma Land, and both selling sex and compensated dating are actively encouraged ways of making money.

    4. In Delta Land (green team), the towns are made of wooden houses surrounded by natural scenery. The schools there focus on resource gathering, meditation, historical studies, and creative writing. Deltas are involved in fishing, logging, mining, hunting, and other ways of collecting resources, and many of these people often start working immediately after they land on the continent. Optional liberal art courses are available for people of all ages, and many of the graduating students become world renown writers and activists. Delta Landers places a lot of importance on respect and appreciation, and they spend four hours a week making ceremonies for people who suffered in the past due to any kind of injustice whatsoever.
    Amazing. I lol'ed at the bolded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal View Post
    Just for entertainment purposes, I'm going to describe a fictional society dominated by Quadra values (maybe someone can write a book on that):

    4000 years into the future, the land on this planet is equally divided into four continents, with one for each Quadra: Alpha Land, Beta Land, Gamma Land, and Delta Land. Each of these continents have a distinct culture, and is further subdivided into distinct countries based on hundreds of other typological parameters. The four Quadra are ruled by the World Government with elected officials from each continent on a yearly basis. Children on the planet are born in artificial incubators on a large island outside of the four continents, and are genetically selected to survive without parental help. After they are born from the sperm and egg bank, they receive a gene test to determine their type (with other parameters). They are then educated in mix Quadra schools on the island until the age of 12, and wear uniforms associated with their Quadra. Afterwards, they are sent into their respective continents:

    1. In Alpha Land (yellow team), the cities are divided into tiny cute French houses with video game cafes all over town. The schools there focus on language studies, abstract mathematics, culinary arts, and home economics. The country produces the majority of the World's food exports, and the people there are excellent foreign language interpreters (with an average person capable of speaking at least 5 languages). They also provide cleaning services for people of other continents. Be careful though, they may gossip behind your back in a language you don't understand! Alphas also produce intricate scientific theories that are borrowed by Gamma Landers for their new business ventures.

    2. In Beta Land (red team), the towns look like war torn ruins on the surface of the continent. However, a beautiful cyberpunk city runs underground for miles on end. The schools there focus on theatre arts, military strategy, war craftsmanship, and memorizing propaganda. Each year, 17-18 year old Beta Landers interested in joining the military must compete on the surface of their continent using weapons and strategies taught in school. The outcome of the tests will determine their military ranking but subsequent exams can alter things. Betas produce the majority of the World's military equipment. They are also invested in news reporting, music, and therapy for soldiers with PTSD from their battle exams.

    3. In Gamma Land (blue team), the cities there are covered by capitalistic skyscrapers. The schools there focus on business studies, engineering, making pop music, and seducing rich people. The schools take place in private companies, and lecture-based traditional classes are very limited. Due to the restless of the students however, 95% of them dropout of school anyways to pursue their own thing. A sizeable proportion of Gamma Landers become the world's major economic forecasters, business people, and entertainment providers. Also, prostitution is legal in Gamma Land, and both selling sex and compensated dating are actively encouraged ways of making money.

    4. In Delta Land (green team), the towns are made of wooden houses surrounded by natural scenery. The schools there focus on resource gathering, meditation, historical studies, and creative writing. Deltas are involved in fishing, logging, mining, hunting, and other ways of collecting resources, and many of these people often start working immediately after they land on the continent. Optional liberal art courses are available for people of all ages, and many of the graduating students become world renown writers and activists. Delta Landers places a lot of importance on respect and appreciation, and they spend four hours a week making ceremonies for people who suffered in the past due to any kind of injustice whatsoever.
    Gamma land is like John Wick universe. You can just kill ppl for big hits and retire. There’s only hard 2 rules and then everything else is game. Also everyone looks fly cuz we all wear designer. Win-win.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    the problem with gamma is their massive waste of resources though. bc they lack Ti they can't really differentiate between necessary and unnecessary things. they also love excess and are prone to purchase worthless things simply because they can. production gets moved to asia because it's cheaper there but the labor conditions are horrible. beta actively surpresses freedom, gamma does it passively. our children are pretty much screwed because climate change is just around the corner but nobody wants to restrict their way of living in any way. we all want to travel, freedom, wealth etc. but it's not sustainable
    LOL it’s actually the Ti-Fe valued Quadras that go on wasteful spending sprees because Alpha and Beta don’t have Te. They care about their impractical ideologies and focused on their theatrical Fe image instead of being anchored in everyday life and dealing with normal shit like work and paying bills.

    Te valued Quadras care about efficiency and what works which means they also know what’s needed and what’s not, esp. when it comes to resources. Gamma is about the practicality of savings and then once you build up wealth, then yeah, go nuts and treat yo’self if you want.
    Gamma wouldn’t send labor force to a foreign country, Gamma would be isolationist and do everything in house to build our wealth and be free from others. We try to contain ourselves as much as possible due to hatred of Fe so we strive to keep control over production and money. For Beta, brute strength is power. But for Gamma, money is power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolita View Post
    LOL it’s actually the Ti-Fe valued Quadras that go on wasteful spending sprees because Alpha and Beta don’t have Te. They care about their impractical ideologies and focused on their theatrical Fe image instead of being anchored in everyday life and dealing with normal shit like work and paying bills.

    Te valued Quadras care about efficiency and what works which means they also know what’s needed and what’s not, esp. when it comes to resources. Gamma is about the practicality of savings and then once you build up wealth, then yeah, go nuts and treat yo’self if you want.
    Gamma wouldn’t send labor force to a foreign country, Gamma would be isolationist and do everything in house to build our wealth and be free from others. We try to contain ourselves as much as possible due to hatred of Fe so we strive to keep control over production and money. For Beta, brute strength is power. But for Gamma, money is power.
    A big difference between Alpha and Gamma: Alpha view the economy as a whole (Ti view), and Gamma mind only their own business (Te). What "wasting resources" mean is different from each quadra's point of view.

    Our civilization would hardly evolve if only 1 quadra exist. Like Surreal said, gamma NT borrowed alpha NT's theories for their new business ventures.
    Last edited by Moharu; 02-22-2021 at 06:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolita View Post
    I’m ok with Gamma NTs suppressing and silencing Fe types cuz I hate Fe probably more than they do. Gamma society would function well on its own since it’ll be a society that’s practical and business savvy and since we’ve already purged the psychotic histrionic EIE from our sphere, we can accomplish some really important tasks like continue working on more quality of life stuff.
    I'm actually thinking yes, then Alpha NTs can be the idea men from the far away land you talk from time to time to get ideas and fundamental truths from. Alpha -> Gamma, it's like cutting out the middle man. But Gammas might need to fight Beta evil for inspiration. Without much challenge from the other side, life can be boring.

    If I'm actually ILI, it's not like I suppress and silence Fe types. Mostly I just don't follow them which ruins their fun.
    I guess I do sometimes suppress them by asking, "Yes, but does that make sense to you? What will that be for?" when they want me to join their antics for the sake of the mood. Or tell them what I really think/feel about something even if it's negative.

    I hate Fe probably more than they do
    I don't know about that. I HATE Fe, and most of the things I do, if not everything, either ignore Fe or destroy Fe. But I guess SEEs might openly and actively mock Fe.

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    lol I know an ILI who got fired for throwing a stapler at the boss. Not directly at her but still... he had good ideas and dreams of becoming a manager and having his own company but his pride and arrogance & anger issues got in the way. ILIs can potentially be very successful, but most of them are just petulant angry little boys. Gammas often talk to others all condescending like they know oh so much more but corporeally speaking they still live in trailer parks. Gammas are so hilarious and cute with how arrogant and sadistic they are with others at times but in all reality don't have much to show for it. And most SEEs I know work in minimum wage jobs- hardly running fortune 500 companies themselves... they tend to kinda be the 'softest Gammas' though as they are the first baby Gammas ((and I obviously like SEEs the best)) but still.

    LIEs have good business ideas but a lot of them are online just supervising IEIs too much and hypocritically living the same lifestyle they are trying to correct in IEIs. They also are too busy whining about how the government is holding them back because they want to start a business that is too unethical and shady. This is where they need Delta to correct them so their dream business can actually be moral enough to withstand itself. They whinge about the socialist government being against capitalism too much - but if they were better people and weren't such creepy amoral narcissists the authorities wouldn't be on their case so much and they actually could get their business off the ground rather then just playing it safe and supervising IEIs online whist either having no job themselves or having one that's only marginally better paying ((probably with a wealthy SLI boss that they are jealous of)) because yeah - it's easy to be around our supervisees as it's comfortable and easy to criticize them.

    Deltas are much, much more likely to be real world successful really & I loathe Deltas but I have to give credit where credit is due - Gammas are more often just smelly sadistic trailer park bullies that are only marginally better in the real world than Betas (and even then only in specific circumstances) but pretend like they are so 'evolved' or something- it's pretty funny. ESIs move around a lot in the real world like SEEs trying out different shit & ESIs make them being on welfare look sophisticated and 'adult', but just being in the world is nowhere near the same thing as truly conquering it.

    With no valued Ti and new born baby Te yet to be perfected by Delta's much superior Te (read Gulkeno's chain), most Gamma systems are intrinsically designed to fail before they've even begun. When Gammas get fed up and had enough- they just start to get really super mean, as if that is their only super power- and then a proper authority figure just ends up arresting them (usually a T type Gamma suffers this fate). Being cruel is a nothing Gammas all too often think is a something - it's only one tiny step above being a yawning kitten on the streets.

    The bad thing about a group of Deltas though is that despite all the excellent real world success they've acquired from being able to 'walk away from the abyss', they would start stupidly pouncing too much on any dumbly perceived moral flaw no matter how insignificant or imagined. They would just turn on each other and accuse everyone else of being evil without looking into their Jungian Shadow as they can never properly understand moral ambiguities or how we need "necessary evils" in the real world - even the IEEs, although they are the Delta that tries to do this the closest, they still 'just don't get it' and so they would just end up killing each other brutally each thinking the other was more in the right. Their own empires would start to collapse and cave in on itself and it would also be this weird repression thing where they start creepily acting out everything they were oh so against and pretended that they were superior to. No true innocence to evolve into (Alpha correcting Delta) and so they just end up dying.

    A group of Alphas- I'll just say with this one is that basically they would be way too sad, depressed and dejected and too self-loathing. They would attempt to make everything really fair which would out work in the beginning but then they'd realize they need more Se valuing to truly enforce this fairness but they just don't have it so they just get too sad with nothing to inspire them. They would try to pretend everything is okay too much and be happy but inside completely dying. It would be really sad... like a bunch of children dying. And of course them pretending they aren't dying and being so innocent and childlike just makes the entire thing even more genuinely sad and depressing. Betas make Alphas 'grow up.'

    Now the Betas... I don't have to be this 'fair' just cuz I'm an IEI. Betas are completely perfect and we don't ever do anything wrong, ever. So there!
    Last edited by BandD; 02-22-2021 at 06:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    lol I know an ILI who got fired for throwing a stapler at the boss. Not directly at her but still... he had good ideas and dreams of becoming a manager and having his own company but his pride and arrogance & anger issues got in the way. ILIs can potentially be very successful, but most of them are just petulant angry little boys. Gammas often talk to others all condescending like they know oh so much more but corporeally speaking they still live in trailer parks. Gammas are so hilarious and cute with how arrogant and sadistic they are with others at times but in all reality don't have much to show for it. And most SEEs I know work in minimum wage jobs- hardly running fortune 500 companies themselves... they tend to kinda be the 'softest Gammas' though as they are the first baby Gammas ((and I obviously like SEEs the best)) but still.

    LIEs have good business ideas but a lot of them are online just supervising IEIs too much and hypocritically living the same lifestyle they are trying to correct in IEIs. They also are too busy whining about how the government is holding them back because they want to start a business that is too unethical and shady. This is where they need Delta to correct them so their dream business can actually be moral enough to withstand itself. They whinge about the socialist government being against capitalism too much - but if they were better people and weren't such creepy amoral narcissists the authorities wouldn't be on their case so much and they actually could get their business off the ground rather then just playing it safe and supervising IEIs online whist either having no job themselves or having one that's only marginally better paying ((probably with a wealthy SLI boss that they are jealous of)) because yeah - it's easy to be around our supervisees as it's comfortable and easy to criticize them.

    Deltas are much, much more likely to be real world successful really & I loathe Deltas but I have to give credit where credit is due - Gammas are more often just smelly sadistic trailer park bullies that are only marginally better in the real world than Betas (and even then only in specific circumstances) but pretend like they are so 'evolved' or something- it's pretty funny. ESIs move around a lot in the real world like SEEs trying out different shit & ESIs make them being on welfare look sophisticated and 'adult', but just being in the world is nowhere near the same thing as truly conquering it.

    With no valued Ti and new born baby Te yet to be perfected by Delta's much superior Te (read Gulkeno's chain), most Gamma systems are intrinsically designed to fail before they've even begun. When Gammas get fed up and had enough- they just start to get really super mean, as if that is their only super power- and then a proper authority figure just ends up arresting them (usually a T type Gamma suffers this fate). Being cruel is a nothing Gammas all too often think is a something - it's only one tiny step above being a yawning kitten on the streets.

    The bad thing about a group of Deltas though is that despite all the excellent real world success they've acquired from being able to 'walk away from the abyss', they would start stupidly pouncing too much on any dumbly perceived moral flaw no matter how insignificant or imagined. They would just turn on each other and accuse everyone else of being evil without looking into their Jungian Shadow as they can never properly understand moral ambiguities or how we need "necessary evils" in the real world - even the IEEs, although they are the Delta that tries to do this the closest, they still 'just don't get it' and so they would just end up killing each other brutally each thinking the other was more in the right. Their own empires would start to collapse and cave in on itself and it would also be this weird repression thing where they start creepily acting out everything they were oh so against and pretended that they were superior to. No true innocence to evolve into (Alpha correcting Delta) and so they just end up dying.

    A group of Alphas- I'll just say with this one is that basically they would be way too sad, depressed and dejected and too self-loathing. They would attempt to make everything really fair which would out work in the beginning but then they'd realize they need more Se valuing to truly enforce this fairness but they just don't have it so they just get too sad with nothing to inspire them. They would try to pretend everything is okay too much and be happy but inside completely dying. It would be really sad... like a bunch of children dying. And of course them pretending they aren't dying and being so innocent and childlike just makes the entire thing even more genuinely sad and depressing. Betas make Alphas 'grow up.'

    Now the Betas... I don't have to be this 'fair' just cuz I'm an IEI. Betas are completely perfect and we don't ever do anything wrong, ever. So there!
    Lol :v :v

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    the problem with gamma is their massive waste of resources though. bc they lack Ti they can't really differentiate between necessary and unnecessary things. they also love excess and are prone to purchase worthless things simply because they can. production gets moved to asia because it's cheaper there but the labor conditions are horrible. beta actively surpresses freedom, gamma does it passively. our children are pretty much screwed because climate change is just around the corner but nobody wants to restrict their way of living in any way. we all want to travel, freedom, wealth etc. but it's not sustainable in the long run.

    regarding op, I think socionics will only go mainstream if types can be objectively determined, but I think this will still take a while since subtypes make the whole typing process tricky. this forum mostly constists of people that have an IQ of >120 yet most users here can't even figure out the type of the most obvious EIE's. it has a lot to do with pattern recognition. I don't expect normies to be capable of using the theory in a meaningful way at the moment.
    Saving resources is a Te thing. As a 4D Te user it probably comes to you naturally, but it's not a focus since you don't value Te. As an Alpha myself I find budgeting, money management, etc. boring but necessary and I can do them pretty naturally too. Ti kinda gets in the way though and I only apply Te efficiency and money management principles when I really need them. The reason why Gammas may appear wasteful, isn't Te but Se. Se is probably the wasteful function (and pardon my poor understanding of this unvalued function lol). Se is concerned with social status, hierarchy, stuff like that right? Seems to me that some Se users, and especially Se seekers like to give the impression that they are well-off. This means buying pointless crap like fancy cars or whatever. A bit paradoxical how LIE who value efficiency want to buy expensive cars that are only good for signalling status but there you have it. On the other hand, I don't see, say, LSE buying things for status. And many of the LSE I know are well off thanks to their Te-lead.
    If I had to guess which types are most prone to wasting resources, it'd be a pretty tough call between any xxFp and even ILE or SLI. For xxFp it's the weak Te plus the impulsivity of irrational type. For ILE and SLI it's tough to explain. Especially SLI which are often quite stingy lol. ILE and SLI are very adaptive in terms of resources. If they're poor they don't really mind and just live with it. But if they have resources I guarantee they will buy useless crap to satisfy their leading and suggestive functions. ILE and SLI are basically the types I know the best since my best friends are of these types (and myself). Both types waste resources for the sake of comfort or for the sake of some new idea or change itself. This is interesting because both have 3D Te so they are in principle good at managing money but they ignore it in favour of Ne/Si.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    LIEs have good business ideas but a lot of them are online just supervising IEIs too much and hypocritically living the same lifestyle they are trying to correct in IEIs. They also are too busy whining about how the government is holding them back because they want to start a business that is too unethical and shady. This is where they need Delta to correct them so their dream business can actually be moral enough to withstand itself. They whinge about the socialist government being against capitalism too much - but if they were better people and weren't such creepy amoral narcissists the authorities wouldn't be on their case so much and they actually could get their business off the ground rather then just playing it safe and supervising IEIs online whist either having no job themselves or having one that's only marginally better paying ((probably with a wealthy SLI boss that they are jealous of)) because yeah - it's easy to be around our supervisees as it's comfortable and easy to criticize them.
    I have encountered one LIE who decided to spend his life preaching about anarchocapitalism and writing blog posts where he called people n**gers (he got fined). He also uses tremendous amount of factual trivia to undermine people. These days his life events can be quite objectively checked using parody version of Wikipedia.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

    Your life is too short to actually do anything useful with it without being wasteful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    lol I know an ILI who got fired for throwing a stapler at the boss. Not directly at her but still... he had good ideas and dreams of becoming a manager and having his own company but his pride and arrogance & anger issues got in the way. ILIs can potentially be very successful, but most of them are just petulant angry little boys. Gammas often talk to others all condescending like they know oh so much more but corporeally speaking they still live in trailer parks. Gammas are so hilarious and cute with how arrogant and sadistic they are with others at times but in all reality don't have much to show for it. And most SEEs I know work in minimum wage jobs- hardly running fortune 500 companies themselves... they tend to kinda be the 'softest Gammas' though as they are the first baby Gammas ((and I obviously like SEEs the best)) but still.

    LIEs have good business ideas but a lot of them are online just supervising IEIs too much and hypocritically living the same lifestyle they are trying to correct in IEIs. They also are too busy whining about how the government is holding them back because they want to start a business that is too unethical and shady. This is where they need Delta to correct them so their dream business can actually be moral enough to withstand itself. They whinge about the socialist government being against capitalism too much - but if they were better people and weren't such creepy amoral narcissists the authorities wouldn't be on their case so much and they actually could get their business off the ground rather then just playing it safe and supervising IEIs online whist either having no job themselves or having one that's only marginally better paying ((probably with a wealthy SLI boss that they are jealous of)) because yeah - it's easy to be around our supervisees as it's comfortable and easy to criticize them.

    Deltas are much, much more likely to be real world successful really & I loathe Deltas but I have to give credit where credit is due - Gammas are more often just smelly sadistic trailer park bullies that are only marginally better in the real world than Betas (and even then only in specific circumstances) but pretend like they are so 'evolved' or something- it's pretty funny. ESIs move around a lot in the real world like SEEs trying out different shit & ESIs make them being on welfare look sophisticated and 'adult', but just being in the world is nowhere near the same thing as truly conquering it.

    With no valued Ti and new born baby Te yet to be perfected by Delta's much superior Te (read Gulkeno's chain), most Gamma systems are intrinsically designed to fail before they've even begun. When Gammas get fed up and had enough- they just start to get really super mean, as if that is their only super power- and then a proper authority figure just ends up arresting them (usually a T type Gamma suffers this fate). Being cruel is a nothing Gammas all too often think is a something - it's only one tiny step above being a yawning kitten on the streets.

    The bad thing about a group of Deltas though is that despite all the excellent real world success they've acquired from being able to 'walk away from the abyss', they would start stupidly pouncing too much on any dumbly perceived moral flaw no matter how insignificant or imagined. They would just turn on each other and accuse everyone else of being evil without looking into their Jungian Shadow as they can never properly understand moral ambiguities or how we need "necessary evils" in the real world - even the IEEs, although they are the Delta that tries to do this the closest, they still 'just don't get it' and so they would just end up killing each other brutally each thinking the other was more in the right. Their own empires would start to collapse and cave in on itself and it would also be this weird repression thing where they start creepily acting out everything they were oh so against and pretended that they were superior to. No true innocence to evolve into (Alpha correcting Delta) and so they just end up dying.

    A group of Alphas- I'll just say with this one is that basically they would be way too sad, depressed and dejected and too self-loathing. They would attempt to make everything really fair which would out work in the beginning but then they'd realize they need more Se valuing to truly enforce this fairness but they just don't have it so they just get too sad with nothing to inspire them. They would try to pretend everything is okay too much and be happy but inside completely dying. It would be really sad... like a bunch of children dying. And of course them pretending they aren't dying and being so innocent and childlike just makes the entire thing even more genuinely sad and depressing. Betas make Alphas 'grow up.'

    Now the Betas... I don't have to be this 'fair' just cuz I'm an IEI. Betas are completely perfect and we don't ever do anything wrong, ever. So there!
    You go too much by stereotypes. Holy fuck. Have you ever gone outside? I do agree many Deltas seek perfection regarding ethic, but they can get mature enough to understand nobody's perfect tbh. I personally only seek people to respect me personally, and If they don't, i'll kick them in the dick, that's part of freedom, I can do anything to anyone who gets in my face, but if they just go and do unethical shit to themselves and their own worlds, I could care less. Who am I to judge that? I got cancelled on twitter twice for making idiotic sassy jokes that included slurs, none of them were the n word, by the way, that's overdone.
    I make music, and i'm an attempt of writer. If you think i'm being arrogant, just know it's my intention, I do believe i'm better than a lot of people.

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    Yeah 3D & 4D Te & Ti makes a person really good at the "tremendous amounts of factual trivia" thing. My LII dad was like this too- omg he was so fucking good at trivia games and always like creamed everybody - but he didn't really use it to undermine anybody because he was a goody goody "child-like" Alpha. I admit I admired how humble he was about winning. Reminds me of a Gamma vs. Alpha clash definitely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    I'm actually thinking yes, then Alpha NTs can be the idea men from the far away land you talk from time to time to get ideas and fundamental truths from. Alpha -> Gamma, it's like cutting out the middle man. But Gammas might need to fight Beta evil for inspiration. Without much challenge from the other side, life can be boring.

    If I'm actually ILI, it's not like I suppress and silence Fe types. Mostly I just don't follow them which ruins their fun.
    I guess I do sometimes suppress them by asking, "Yes, but does that make sense to you? What will that be for?" when they want me to join their antics for the sake of the mood. Or tell them what I really think/feel about something even if it's negative.


    I don't know about that. I HATE Fe, and most of the things I do, if not everything, either ignore Fe or destroy Fe. But I guess SEEs might openly and actively mock Fe.
    Alpha NTs are theoretically driven and don’t care about cashing in on their ideas. They will get pushed out from their invention and their ideas will get physically implemented and improved upon by the Betas and Gammas because central Quadras value Se competition. Gamma NTs will fight for their ideas and make sure they not only get credit for coming up with the idea (Se valued, assertion) but also for implementing it (Te).

    As for “suppression,” my word choice was in response to Bandd. Gammas don’t actively suppress stuff, but will do it really stealth, which is as you’ve said, simply ignoring Fe and not feeding into it.

    SEE has reliable high dimensional Fe but they only use Fe to help support their Se so they can overcome social obstacles. SEE actually does hate Fe on its own, especially hate EIE because Fe is attention whore by being theatrical and manipulating the social environment which essentially cons people into feeling a certain way so they’d feel pressured/forced (EIE’s valued mob Se) to do something. The upswing of Fe is that it can rally many people and be inspirational. I like the inspirational part, but I hate the first part about Fe which is the MOST common way that Fe gets used esp. by Fe leads. I don’t like attention on me, but for whatever reason, I’m noticeable and I could carry a crowd, but I still HATE attention on me so it messes me up when I have to use Fe and dominate the crowd. I’m weak with public speaking and I freeze up when I have to talk in front of a group even though I’m not scared or shy, I just freeze.

    Also, I’m a normalizing SEE, which means I have stronger Fi, Ti, and Si development than default SEE so I end up being “super” Fi and unconsciously I don’t want to engage in Fe at all. This is why I “freeze” up in front of crowds despite not being shy.

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    I don't play, I slay. Lolita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Banana King View Post
    Saving resources is a Te thing. As a 4D Te user it probably comes to you naturally, but it's not a focus since you don't value Te. As an Alpha myself I find budgeting, money management, etc. boring but necessary and I can do them pretty naturally too.Ti kinda gets in the way though and I only apply Te efficiency and money management principles when I really need them.
    Yes. Te is applied applied, practical logic. ILE don't want to engage in Te anymore than they have to, and when they do, they want to get it over with very quickly. That's how all the types treat their demo function. ILE and SLE (demo Te in Model A 4D/creative Te in Model G 3D) don't use pure Te and certainly not for the sake of it, but it gets applied specifically to support their lead function. For ILE, they are use Te specifically for when they're occupied with activities that are of interest to them and can extract values from such activities. ILE have Te- (same as LSE and ILI) which is practical logic of savings. Here's a few examples of how ILE uses it: quickly implement current informational finds to immediate practical use in projects, realize innovative and savvy ideas, optimize a system to maximize benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Banana King View Post
    The reason why Gammas may appear wasteful, isn't Te but Se. Se is probably the wasteful function (and pardon my poor understanding of this unvalued function lol). Se is concerned with social status, hierarchy, stuff like that right?
    No. Anything that concerns social image, social hierarchy, or taking context into image, that's Fe because it's the function that shapes demonstrative and expressive behavior. Fe wants to make an external impact by effecting the emotional atmosphere. Se is static and straight up facts. The reason why Se is the closest to perceiving reality is because it takes in raw information. There's no filters or edits with Se, it's straight up factual reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Banana King View Post
    to me that some Se users, and especially Se seekers like to give the impression that they are well-off. This means buying pointless crap like fancy cars or whatever. A bit paradoxical how LIE who value efficiency want to buy expensive cars that are only good for signalling status but there you have it. On the other hand, I don't see, say, LSE buying things for status. And many of the LSE I know are well off thanks to their Te-lead.
    You're onto to something with the Se seekers wanting to give the impression of being well-off, but it's actually due to Fe. It's wanting to appear a certain way that conjures up an impression for others to perceive. EIE want to appear bossass bitch and LIE want to appear respectable and powerful. For me, I don't care about how others perceive me or think of me. I already know I look cute because I've judged myself to look cute and no external judgement could change my internal judgement. I use Fe to express Fi. So I look good not to impress others or leave an impression on others, but it's merely an outward expression of how I internally feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Banana King View Post
    I had to guess which types are most prone to wasting resources, it'd be a pretty tough call between any xxFp and even ILE or SLI. For xxFp it's the weak Te plus the impulsivity of irrational type. For ILE and SLI it's tough to explain. Especially SLI which are often quite stingy lol. ILE and SLI are very adaptive in terms of resources. If they're poor they don't really mind and just live with it. But if they have resources I guarantee they will buy useless crap to satisfy their leading and suggestive functions. ILE and SLI are basically the types I know the best since my best friends are of these types (and myself). Both types waste resources for the sake of comfort or for the sake of some new idea or change itself. This is interesting because both have 3D Te so they are in principle good at managing money but they ignore it in favour of Ne/Si.
    LOL Most wasteful types are Alpha SFs (too concerned with Fe image and low Te dimensionality), Beta & Delta NF (low dimensional Si and Se, low dimensional Te). ILE actually aren't wasteful cuz high dimensional Te-. SLI is actually pretty stingy and good applying their resources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolita View Post
    Yes. Te is applied applied, practical logic. ILE don't want to engage in Te anymore than they have to, and when they do, they want to get it over with very quickly. That's how all the types treat their demo function. ILE and SLE (demo Te in Model A 4D/creative Te in Model G 3D) don't use pure Te and certainly not for the sake of it, but it gets applied specifically to support their lead function. For ILE, they are use Te specifically for when they're occupied with activities that are of interest to them and can extract values from such activities. ILE have Te- (same as LSE and ILI) which is practical logic of savings. Here's a few examples of how ILE uses it: quickly implement current informational finds to immediate practical use in projects, realize innovative and savvy ideas, optimize a system to maximize benefits.


    No. Anything that concerns social image, social hierarchy, or taking context into image, that's Fe because it's the function that shapes demonstrative and expressive behavior. Fe wants to make an external impact by effecting the emotional atmosphere. Se is static and straight up facts. The reason why Se is the closest to perceiving reality is because it takes in raw information. There's no filters or edits with Se, it's straight up factual reality.



    You're onto to something with the Se seekers wanting to give the impression of being well-off, but it's actually due to Fe. It's wanting to appear a certain way that conjures up an impression for others to perceive. EIE want to appear bossass bitch and LIE want to appear respectable and powerful. For me, I don't care about how others perceive me or think of me. I already know I look cute because I've judged myself to look cute and no external judgement could change my internal judgement. I use Fe to express Fi. So I look good not to impress others or leave an impression on others, but it's merely an outward expression of how I internally feel.



    LOL Most wasteful types are Alpha SFs (too concerned with Fe image and low Te dimensionality), Beta & Delta NF (low dimensional Si and Se, low dimensional Te). ILE actually aren't wasteful cuz high dimensional Te-. SLI is actually pretty stingy and good applying their resources.
    Well the theory makes sense and all but my personal experience contradicts this. The ESE guys I've met were quite good at managing their resources, since Te-role isn't exactly bad at Te. Haven't met any ESE ladies though. I've met EII men and women who were also great at saving (good at not wasting money rather than money management). This is why I think the impulsivity of p types is what leads to wasting resources. And I support this view with my closest friends and myself, 2 ILE and 2 SLI who can be quite wasteful if they can, even if the theory says otherwise. In the case of ILE at least some descriptions mention being good at making and also spending money.

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    hmm, I personally feel that gamma just wastes a lot of their money while alpha NT's can mostly live with a few hundred dollars a month. some examples:

    ILI

    https://www.luxuo.com/motoring/yacht...ht-senses.html

    LIE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C680oxL__ck

    ESI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZY9jXBpfgU

    SEE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCK_hn4btpQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Banana King View Post
    Well the theory makes sense and all but my personal experience contradicts this. The ESE guys I've met were quite good at managing their resources, since Te-role isn't exactly bad at Te. Haven't met any ESE ladies though. I've met EII men and women who were also great at saving (good at not wasting money rather than money management). This is why I think the impulsivity of p types is what leads to wasting resources. And I support this view with my closest friends and myself, 2 ILE and 2 SLI who can be quite wasteful if they can, even if the theory says otherwise. In the case of ILE at least some descriptions mention being good at making and also spending money.
    A small sample may contradict the theory for specific individuals but it doesn't invalidate the practical theory behind it and why it is the way it is.

    Not all individuals of a type are equal. So although it's the norm for say, ESE to be spending for image conscious reasons (Fe lead/Te role), your ESE example could actually be more careful with Fe and thus moderate their spending. They're still ESE, and ESE aren't that careful with saving because they lead with Fe+ positive emotions combined with Te+ Role and not only is role a function of stressful reluctance, but Te+ is about big risks (LIE and SLE have this form in high dimension). So what this means is that on occasion when ESE is stressed out, to feel good and get positive emotions back, they engage in role function and use it as a coping mechanism so they go out on big ole spending sprees. What they spend big money on is a personal preference, but the formula is the same.

    This reminds me of an ESE I met at a wedding like 10 years ago. I was a teenager and was seated across her and her husband. She looked like she was in her 40s with her atrocious outfit and had gross mom perm hair but later I found out she was only 25. Anyway, I found out a few months later (through my godmother) that her husband was divorcing her because she emptied out the bank accounts by spending it all on buying a bunch of stuff. This was the 2nd time she's done that where she emptied out all the bank accounts with her spending sprees. Her husband said she gets stressed out and does go on stress spending binges but it's usually not so bad. After the 1s time that she emptied their accounts, he warned her if she ever did it again, he'll divorce her and take custody of their son. She was begging her husband for a second chance but he refused and did leave her. I think he's Delta ST. Nice, hard working guy. Unimposing. She was a damn cow.

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    The evidence for the conjecture behind intertype relations is poor or non-existent, and is flatly contradicted by Big Five research into relationships. Socionics doesn't really have anything going for it at best. It is poorly defined and may be extremely muddled compared to a gold standard personality model like the HEXACO-PI-R.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    The evidence for the conjecture behind intertype relations is poor or non-existent, and is flatly contradicted by Big Five research into relationships. Socionics doesn't really have anything going for it at best. It is poorly defined and may be extremely muddled compared to a gold standard personality model like the HEXACO-PI-R.
    Interesting, what are your sources for the Big Five research ?

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    I'm taking the inventory myself, and a lot of these questions are legit what I would ask for determining reinens. A few are good questions.

    I'm at that point where I figured everyone is using basically phrenology to judge people, so that's fun.

    I'm gonna learn about hexaco now. I'll be right back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sah Kel Plaisir View Post
    Yeah maybe when it comes to ITR quality socionics is kinda messed up
    But I believe that socionics has it right on the "attractiveness" thing (Introvert attracted to Extravert, Sensing attracted to intuition ...)
    From my own experience, i.e. anecdotally, I might sense that, but I have seriously doubted it in recent years. It may be more the case that I admire/need someone with practical skills (or at least ones I admire/need), who has a lot of drive in the external world, and who I can I assist with their own problems.

    Such skills and abilities exist independently of type (although there will certainly be some correlations of varying strength. Also, the idea of Socionics duality that is common here is essential that each person has their one soul mate dual that will be the answer to all their problems. The reality is that many people can complement you and that you do not need to rely on any one person and that indeed it would be unwise to do so. Also, there’s so many things that contribute to relationships with high levels of satisfaction. I suspect there is little or no practical utility to Socionics - aside from their being no evidence to support the theory being what it says about the intertype relations, there is no standardisation definition of the types.

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...cles?p=1374164

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    Do you have any resources on Hexaco? Fun trends based on each trait?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    The evidence for the conjecture behind intertype relations is poor or non-existent, and is flatly contradicted by Big Five research into relationships. Socionics doesn't really have anything going for it at best. It is poorly defined and may be extremely muddled compared to a gold standard personality model like the HEXACO-PI-R.
    Socionics, Big 5, Hexaco and other typologies aren't really any different in their approach.

    Pretty much any kind of nonsense can gain mainstream acceptance with the right amount of marketing. But whether it will have scientific acceptance is another matter.

    So how can something gain scientific acceptance? E.g. on "The Pseudoscience of 'The Secret'":

    When scientists propose a new theory, they must explain how it works. "The Secret," on the other hand, gets in deep trouble when it tries to explain the mechanism by which the "Law of Attraction" supposedly works. According to the idea, our thoughts somehow send out vibrations that something in the universe somehow deciphers and responds to. If we want to be thinner, or have a new car, the universe will somehow provide it if we think about it. Positive thinking is easier than diet and exercise or earning money to buy a car, but even if the "Law of Attraction" exists, how exactly would the pounds come off, and the new car appear?
    https://www.livescience.com/5303-pse...ce-secret.html

    As it says, a scientific theory must explain how something works. You can't just call two people being attracted to each other "Duality" or "Law of Attraction" and offer no explanation of how that attraction supposedly works. That would be like dropping an object to the ground and calling it "object-falling effect", without ever bothering to bring up the theory of gravity to explain the mechanism of how it all works. Things apparently, don't happen without a reason.

    And most importantly, how does it not work? When does Duality not work? Since there is no explanation of it, this area is often excused or muddled. It simply says, sometimes Duality works, sometimes Duality does not work, it's all a big mystery. Well that's simply the consequence of not offering any explanation on how Duality actually works. Pretty sure you don't just say that sometimes things fall and sometimes things don't fall. You can explain why.

    All typologies aren't any different in that none of them offer any explanations in ways that all scientific theories offer explanations. Physics can explain, chemistry can explain, biology can explain. That is why "scientific" psychology isn't currently science. Neither are all the other social sciences. They offer no explanations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Socionics, Big 5, Hexaco and other typologies aren't really any different in their approach.

    Pretty much any kind of nonsense can gain mainstream acceptance with the right amount of marketing. But whether it will have scientific acceptance is another matter.

    So how can something gain scientific acceptance? E.g. on "The Pseudoscience of 'The Secret'":


    https://www.livescience.com/5303-pse...ce-secret.html

    As it says, a scientific theory must explain how something works. You can't just call two people being attracted to each other "Duality" or "Law of Attraction" and offer no explanation of how that attraction supposedly works. That would be like dropping an object to the ground and calling it "object-falling effect", without ever bothering to bring up the theory of gravity to explain the mechanism of how it all works. Things apparently, don't happen without a reason.

    And most importantly, how does it not work? When does Duality not work? Since there is no explanation of it, this area is often excused or muddled. It simply says, sometimes Duality works, sometimes Duality does not work, it's all a big mystery. Well that's simply the consequence of not offering any explanation on how Duality actually works. Pretty sure you don't just say that sometimes things fall and sometimes things don't fall. You can explain why.

    All typologies aren't any different in that none of them offer any explanations in ways that all scientific theories offer explanations. Physics can explain, chemistry can explain, biology can explain. That is why "scientific" psychology isn't currently science. Neither are all the other social sciences. They offer no explanations.
    If Socionics conjectures provided a practical means to find harmonious relationships, I'd be happy enough. But I think at the moment it is anecdotal at best.

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    marriage pairs is the main "mainstream" usage

    if will be objectively known that types are identified good and be experimental proof that good IR help to make emotionally happier pairs indeed

    at now typing mistakes are high, what is seen in low real typing matches. and no proof for complementary functions hypotheses and where it can be practically useful
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    The real danger of Socionics (the same danger inherent to all personality typologies) is that people contort themselves to fit narrowly-defined type and function descriptions.

    In one of his documentaries (whose name escapes me), the documentarian Adam Curtis talks about the subtle influence of the Big Five personality inventory following its invention, whereby people began to over-identify with their test results, and began changing themselves to fit a "purer" version of their type.

    This is powerful stuff, especially if it becomes your only social outlet while sitting alone in front of your computer for days on end, and it can act as a gateway to behaviours that you'd have never considered otherwise. It could lead to breaking up with a significant other; dredging up old quarrels with friends and family members; and even, for instance, changes in political outlook.

    There is something very pernicious about presenting someone with elaborate tools to explore their individuality (their inalienable inner core, assuming that such a thing exists), all the while controlling the definition of what that individuality is.

    Even if Socionics was a nearly perfect model of a human 'psyche' which encompasses inflexible thinking machinery, who's to say that its idealized patterns are any more proper, as a way of thinking, than repressing these natural proclivities in order to fit the exact dictates of some grander social ideology; or, conversely, more proper than defining yourself entirely according to self-invented principles and characteristics.
    Last edited by xerxe; 02-28-2021 at 06:56 PM.

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    No kidding. It's fantastic for someone with relatively no identity or personality though.

    I only say these things because I think of them. They probably don't need to be said, but I answer the WHOLE question. There is no ambiguity at all.

    This is why I have to stop myself from going here and blowing up this entire board.

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