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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Default Religion is Everything

    Some here write as if it is nothing. It shocks me when I read it, and I question if I have read mistakenly. But particularly in these times some have this view. It is hard to fathom, because religion, or God, is everything. I feel sorry especially for those raised in places where religion is outlawed, and come from generations of unbelievers. Belief in and relationship to God is one of those things that makes us quite different from the animals. Yes, it is the best and also the the worst of humanity that makes us so distinct from the animals.

    But the spiritual realm is the greater reality. Holy Scripture tells us that "We fight not against flesh and blood but powers and principalities". Like that angel on your one shoulder and the devil on the other. That is reality.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Some here write as if it is nothing. It shocks me when I read it, and I question if I have read mistakenly. But particularly in these times some have this view. It is hard to fathom, because religion, or God, is everything. I feel sorry especially for those raised in places where religion is outlawed, and come from generations of unbelievers. Belief in and relationship to God is one of those things that makes us quite different from the animals. Yes, it is the best and also the the worst of humanity that makes us so distinct from the animals.

    But the spiritual realm is the greater reality. Holy Scripture tells us that "We fight not against flesh and blood but powers and principalities". Like that angel on your one shoulder and the devil on the other. That is reality.
    Or you can shorten it to the decree I've been issuing towards anyone who dares to disagree. Everyone has a religion and if only they'd just accept that fact they'd actually land an actual epiphany that the PTB would rather they not have.

    We may both have accepted the same Church as our ultimate (and ultimately factual) source of our spirituality but we may still have some misunderstandings we need to hash out...

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Everyone has a religion...
    Everyone doesn't have a religion.

    Comments like this just diminish religion by putting it on par with consumerism and political ideologies etc..
    ἀταραξία

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    The God can go fuck itself and leave me alone. I bow to no one. Only the weak need something to protect their pitiful soul...

    I am the master of my fate.
    I am the captain of my soul.
    Last edited by Moharu; 02-16-2021 at 05:37 AM.

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    >God fucking hates figs



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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    The God can go fuck itself and leave me alone. I bow to no one. Only the weak need something to protect their pitiful soul...

    I am the master of my fate.
    I am the captain of my soul.
    Quoth the demonically obsessed it not outright possessed. Again I assert you have a "god" even as you vociferously deny it. Sadly for you, it seems to be yourself. G.K. Chesterton had a great quote regarding that. About how Jones would be better off worshiping cats, crocodiles, the sun or moon, anything but himself. I'd suggest you follow that advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    >God fucking hates figs
    Actually, he loves all sinners. He hates their sins, but not them personally. I mean hell, Oz Fox, the lead guitarist for Stryper (a Christian Heavy Metal band that's actually pretty damn good) wore a "Jesus Loves Porn Stars" shirt to a recorded interview. He's not wrong to do so because he does indeed love porn stars. He just desires they'd stop being porn stars and instead become good wives or husbands. Or even priests and nuns if that be his will. Saint Augustine was one hell of a fornicator right before he wasn't after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Quoth the demonically obsessed it not outright possessed. Again I assert you have a "god" even as you vociferously deny it. Sadly for you, it seems to be yourself. G.K. Chesterton had a great quote regarding that. About how Jones would be better off worshiping cats, crocodiles, the sun or moon, anything but himself. I'd suggest you follow that advice.
    I don't care if I have a "God" inside of me or not. I'm not interest in it so whether it does exist or not is not my concern. As a Te valuer, I love practical knowledge, what method has the highest chance of solving a technical problem. Understand something like God seem boring as fuck, I just need to understand myself instead.

    God is irrelevant, even if it show its face right in front of me, unless it grant me some free wishes so I could make use of it.
    Last edited by Moharu; 02-16-2021 at 03:12 PM.

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    I don't care if I have a "God" inside of me or not. I'm not interest in it so whether it does exist or not is not my concern. As a Te valuer, I love practical knowledge, what method has the highest chance of solving a technical problem. Understand something like God seem boring as fuck, I just need to understand myself instead.

    God is irrelevant, even if it show its face right in front of me, unless it grant me some free wishes so I could make use of it.
    So, like, it's all about you.

    My Dad used to say, "Do you think you live in a vacuum?" Because we kids of course thought life was all about us; the world revolved around us. Think of a world where everyone thinks this way. Pretty horrible. It is the unselfish people that make our world tolerable. In Hell none of those unselfish people will be there. No one to trash. Every single being there will be all about self and getting from/at others. Everyone trying to have power over and do violence to everyone else. All alike. All the time. For eternity. People will choose that for their eternity, having learned to hate goodness in life. Going down that path and choosing never to examine it and never leave it. To the point of desiring only that path and not wanting to choose another in the end when given that choice.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    So, like, it's all about you.

    My Dad used to say, "Do you think you live in a vacuum?" Because we kids of course thought life was all about us; the world revolved around us. Think of a world where everyone thinks this way. Pretty horrible. It is the unselfish people that make our world tolerable. In Hell none of those unselfish people will be there. No one to trash. Every single being there will be all about self and getting from/at others. Everyone trying to have power over and do violence to everyone else. All alike. All the time. For eternity. People will choose that for their eternity, having learned to hate goodness in life. Going down that path and choosing never to examine it and never leave it. To the point of desiring only that path and not wanting to choose another in the end when given that choice.
    Christianity is a slave cult devoted to a selfish being who is capable of preventing suffering but chooses not to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    I don't care if I have a "God" inside of me or not. I'm not interest in it so whether it does exist or not is not my concern. As a Te valuer, I love practical knowledge, what method has the highest chance of solving a technical problem. Understand something like God seem boring as fuck, I just need to understand myself instead.

    God is irrelevant, even if it show its face right in front of me, unless it grant me some free wishes so I could make use of it.

    sounds like apatheism. No just and no loving goddess or god would be angry or torture you if you are an apatheist. it wouldn't make sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    sounds like apatheism. No just and no loving goddess or god would be angry or torture you if you are an apatheist. it wouldn't make sense
    I'm not a believer, saying god and godess do not exist make no sense, because we have no proof to prove it. If you say gods do not exist, you are no different than those "believer".

    As I said, I value practical knowledge, so I ll keep my doubt about everything. No knowledge is absolutely right, but still I can use some knowledge that have the highest chance that its right or closest to the truth, so I can make profit from it.

    I don't mess with Gods because I don't like the idea worshiping them (like a pitiful slave), it's a personal taste.
    Last edited by Moharu; 02-17-2021 at 08:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    He just desires they'd stop being porn stars and instead become good wives or husbands. Or even priests and nuns if that be his will. Saint Augustine was one hell of a fornicator right before he wasn't after all.
    You want to encourage the corrupt stock to keep spreading their genes, rather than leaving them to self-destruct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    You want to encourage the corrupt stock to keep spreading their genes, rather than leaving them to self-destruct?
    In an ideal world the "corrupted stock" would repent and realize their ultimate role in God's plan. Again, I chose/see Saint Augustine as my Patron for many a darn good reason.

    The man sinned, hard and unrepentantly, right up until he stopped doing that and repented. I mean listen to the arrogance of this mofo: "Lord give me chastity, but not yet" is his most famous quote. He sinned unrepentantly right up until he did not, became a monk, and survived the fall of Rome because the friggin' Vandals respected the kind of man/believer he became. Literal Vandals decided to not chuck rocks at, pillage, or firebomb what amounted to his private library/abode/village out of respect.

    Parse that shit through your downright mistaken perception of Christ and those who follow him.
    Last edited by End; 02-17-2021 at 04:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    In an ideal world the "corrupted stock" would repent and realize their ultimate role in God's plan. Again, I chose/see Saint Augustine as my Patron for many a darn good reason.

    The man sinned, hard and unrepentantly, right up until he stopped. I mean listen to the arrogance of this mofo: "Lord give me chastity, but not yet" is his most famous quote. He sinned unrepentantly right up until he did not, became a monk, and survived the fall of Rome because the friggin' Vandals respected the kind of man/believer he became. Literal Vandals decided to not chuck rocks at, pillage, or firebomb what amounted to his private library/abode/village out of respect.

    Parse that shit through your downright mistaken perception of Christ and those who follow him.
    Yeah, ideal.

    The most diseased subspecie of logic ever, it's optimism.

    The requirement that faith be absolute completely disables the "But what if we're wrong?" voice that screams out in your head for a very good reason, and before you know it, generations have passed, over which adherence has dealt more and more damage to the world.


    You know, I have a backup scenario for if it really does turn out your God is real. If he exists, then judging by the way I turned out, he obviously created me as a monster without a soul, or a demon or some shit, so my ass is going to hell no matter what, lol. In which case, I have nothing to be anxious about, since I have my whole life to prepare for the eternal agony of hell, and since nothing I do can prevent it, none of my choices matter. I don't have to worry - it's my destiny.

    The less charitable reality for me is the one where he doesn't exist, because in that world, proper causality is in effect, our choices actually matter, and that demon of Choice gives us wrong-choices to agonize over. What if this crueller godless world really is the one we live in, huh? What if you don't actually have that bulwark of faith to back you up, and humanity really does have to deal with the consequences of that bad genetic practice? What then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    In an ideal world the "corrupted stock" would repent and realize their ultimate role in God's plan. Again, I chose/see Saint Augustine as my Patron for many a darn good reason.

    The man sinned, hard and unrepentantly, right up until he stopped doing that and repented. I mean listen to the arrogance of this mofo: "Lord give me chastity, but not yet" is his most famous quote. He sinned unrepentantly right up until he did not, became a monk, and survived the fall of Rome because the friggin' Vandals respected the kind of man/believer he became. Literal Vandals decided to not chuck rocks at, pillage, or firebomb what amounted to his private library/abode/village out of respect.

    Parse that shit through your downright mistaken perception of Christ and those who follow him.
    you're still spreading hate of humanity while telling the humans you look down on that they are loved by an invisible being. You make any such deity appear to be as hatefilled as you are to us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    In an ideal world the "corrupted stock" would repent and realize their ultimate role in God's plan. Again, I chose/see Saint Augustine as my Patron for many a darn good reason.

    The man sinned, hard and unrepentantly, right up until he stopped doing that and repented. I mean listen to the arrogance of this mofo: "Lord give me chastity, but not yet" is his most famous quote. He sinned unrepentantly right up until he did not, became a monk, and survived the fall of Rome because the friggin' Vandals respected the kind of man/believer he became. Literal Vandals decided to not chuck rocks at, pillage, or firebomb what amounted to his private library/abode/village out of respect.

    Parse that shit through your downright mistaken perception of Christ and those who follow him.
    Why do people need to repent if they have been saved from their alleged sins?

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    Hmm. You were the one that assumed ((very falsely I might add)) that I posted a dirty video publicly just because I'm gay- so really, who is the asshole here? I forgive you, but this is just a minor example of how "Holy" people often do wrong things thinking they are most in the right.

    This isn't a Christian forum- it's a forum about socionics so you aren't going to find everybody that agrees with your lifestyle. If you don't want to be challenged on your beliefs then maybe join a place that will always agree with you. The cool thing about this place is that it has both Heterosexual Angels and Gay Demons.

    The real God is one of Oneness- not of preaching or hypocritical morals or denouncing things everybody is going to do anyway. You don't get there by being religious or even "spiritual" but by Dark Night of the Souls and deeply exploring your jungian Shadow and going through it - what most "Christians" are too cowardly and weak to do. It's also a selfish, inward battle- there is no external preaching with this because that tends to all be negative projectionss that stops true enlightenment from happening. These people that actually do this correctly- usually the people that Christians are most likely to condemn or write-off are 'sinners' - are actually the people that are living much closer to God's true words.

    The real Jesus broke bread with the prostitutes, the sinners, the homosexuals, the outcasts & weirdos society rejected for one reason or another. He didn't even say 'go sin no more' like a condescending douche. It might was 'written' like it was so by sinful heterosexuals that falsely interpreted Jesus' real teachings - but words mean nothing. Words are a veil. If they had any 'sins' - he cleansed them naturally without even speaking or saying anything- but merely accepting and loving them in his nondualistic presence of Oneness. He was also incredibly anti-Te and anti-establishment. Religion has rubbed people the wrong way for many years because people have corrupt Jesus' teachings for their own narcissism and need to look down on others. The real Jesus WEPT indeed.

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    Religion is a system of beliefs.

    Church is simply a medium for religion. Like people gathering at 16-types forum to talk about socionics.

    Like politics, you will have a spectrum of "liberal" and "conservative" ideologies.

    The former will put more emphasis on love and forgiveness, the latter will focus more on judgement and morality.

    The bible teaches both, as they are two sides of the same coin;

    You can't fully understand light without understanding darkness,

    You can't understand God's love without understanding his judgement and wrath.

    The point of Christianity/Salvation is not about being morally perfect, because Jesus already fulfilled that. Rather, it is knowing this and being transformed inside out. Lifestyle/outside actions are simply a byproduct of that transformation, not necessarily the thing that saves you.

    It's like striving to be a physically healthy person; some outside indicators may manifest as eating healthy, going to the gym, being disciplined, etc.

    Same thing applies to the spiritual health.

    You don't agree with the lifestyle of a meth-user. But because you love that person you tell him to stop

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    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDonkeyBallz View Post
    Religion is a system of beliefs.
    I wonder if calling religion "a system of beliefs" is fair.

    It's seems odd to describe religion as a systematisation of what is most superficially apparent* about it.

    *the dogma and practiced principles being what is superficially apparent.
    ἀταραξία

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDonkeyBallz View Post
    Religion is a system of beliefs.

    Church is simply a medium for religion. Like people gathering at 16-types forum to talk about socionics.

    Like politics, you will have a spectrum of "liberal" and "conservative" ideologies.

    The former will put more emphasis on love and forgiveness, the latter will focus more on judgement and morality.

    The bible teaches both, as they are two sides of the same coin;

    You can't fully understand light without understanding darkness,

    You can't understand God's love without understanding his judgement and wrath.

    The point of Christianity/Salvation is not about being morally perfect, because Jesus already fulfilled that. Rather, it is knowing this and being transformed inside out. Lifestyle/outside actions are simply a byproduct of that transformation, not necessarily the thing that saves you.

    It's like striving to be a physically healthy person; some outside indicators may manifest as eating healthy, going to the gym, being disciplined, etc.

    Same thing applies to the spiritual health.

    You don't agree with the lifestyle of a meth-user. But because you love that person you tell him to stop
    If Jesus saved everyone from sin, why do people in the New Testament get thrown into the fire of Hell?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    If Jesus saved everyone from sin, why do people in the New Testament get thrown into the fire of Hell?
    Why do you pretend like you don't know the answer and instead use it as bait like an asshole
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 02-17-2021 at 10:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I'm genuinely confused. You said that Jesus had already saved everyone.
    ur masquerading urself as a fake crusade when we all know that ur actually an intolerant, intellectually dishonest know-it-all underneath
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 02-17-2021 at 10:41 PM.

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    Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?
    Do you have cookies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?
    I'm wondering this unironically

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?
    My brain defaulted to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Just rename this place Beta Central lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    The only problem socionics has given me is a propensity to analyze every relationship from the lens of socionics and I also see that it is worse in my boyfriend. Nothing makes any sense that way and it does not really solve any problems.





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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?
    No because i don't wonder that.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Yeah, ideal.

    The most diseased subspecie of logic ever, it's optimism.

    The requirement that faith be absolute completely disables the "But what if we're wrong?" voice that screams out in your head for a very good reason, and before you know it, generations have passed, over which adherence has dealt more and more damage to the world.


    You know, I have a backup scenario for if it really does turn out your God is real. If he exists, then judging by the way I turned out, he obviously created me as a monster without a soul, or a demon or some shit, so my ass is going to hell no matter what, lol. In which case, I have nothing to be anxious about, since I have my whole life to prepare for the eternal agony of hell, and since nothing I do can prevent it, none of my choices matter. I don't have to worry - it's my destiny.

    The less charitable reality for me is the one where he doesn't exist, because in that world, proper causality is in effect, our choices actually matter, and that demon of Choice gives us wrong-choices to agonize over. What if this crueller godless world really is the one we live in, huh? What if you don't actually have that bulwark of faith to back you up, and humanity really does have to deal with the consequences of that bad genetic practice? What then?
    Sadly you have fallen to demonic logic. This can be but a temporary thing for you hopefully. As I've pointed out time and again many a true saint started and indeed lived most of their lives as beings seeming bound for deepest depths of hell. Yet either upon their death beds or by some strange twist of fate they became the greatest exemplars of the faith. Easiest case in point? Saint Paul. The most zealous, ardent, and downright effective persecutor of Christains became such a great evangelist that none have matched his work in that field since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    No because i don't wonder that.
    :
    The truth has no need to appeal to those who belong to the world. Either they see the truth and accept it, or they do not. Fun anecdote: The band "Stryper" got its name from a rather forced acronym. Mr. Sweet, however, had the right idea. You can either accept it or reject it. Those who accept will be saved. Those who reject will not by their own choice. I am quite thankful that I find the latter option literally and utterly incomprehensible...
    Last edited by End; 02-17-2021 at 12:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Sadly you have fallen to demonic logic. This can be but a temporary thing for you hopefully. As I've pointed out time and again many a true saint started and indeed lived most of their lives as beings seeming bound for deepest depths of hell. Yet either upon their death beds or by some strange twist of fate they became the greatest exemplars of the faith. Easiest case in point? Saint Paul. The most zealous, ardent, and downright effective persecutor of Christains became such a great evangelist that none have matched his work in that field since.


    :
    The truth has no need to appeal to those who belong to the world. Either they see the truth and accept it, or they do not. Fun anecdote: The band "Stryper" got its name from a rather forced acronym. Mr. Sweet, however, had the right idea. You can either accept it or reject it. Those who accept will be saved. Those who reject will not by their own choice. I am quite thankful that I find the latter option literally and utterly incomprehensible...
    People do not choose what they believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    No because i don't wonder that.
    Some here write as if it is nothing. It shocks me when I read it, and I question if I have read mistakenly. But particularly in these times some have this view. It is hard to fathom, because religion, or God, is everything.

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    Sometimes I have thoughts during meditative prayer that I have to interrupt myself to write down. What?

    I was only wondering if there was a venn diagram somewhere with "guns don't kill, people do" and "religion doesn't kill, people do." I think it sounds like an overall psychological bent toward a certain outlook maybe? Not making any particular point.

    And um, yeah? I think about this while meditating, so what? I try my best bbl

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?
    Because this is what you stated it. I know why people don't conform - why would you conform when you don't believe? I wonder why people actually think it doesn't matter. But then, I can remember a time which i wrote about here when I thought it didn't matter. I thought i already knew all about it, and though i sensed I was looking for something, i was sure it wasn't that. (But it was.)
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Because this is what you stated it. I know why people don't conform - why would you conform when you don't believe? I wonder why people actually think it doesn't matter. But then, I can remember a time which i wrote about here when I thought it didn't matter. I thought i already knew all about it, and though i sensed I was looking for something, i was sure it wasn't that. (But it was.)
    Translates post: People just don't yet KNOW they want to convert to my religion and if they made a decision not to it means they don't know enough about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I wonder why people actually think it doesn't matter.
    That sums up the problem in America today. Many of us are ignorant and apathetic about truth—but not when it comes to money, medicine, or the other tangible items. We care passionately about those things. But many people are ignorant and apathetic about truth in morality and religion. Are the people who have adopted the “whatever” theme of the culture right, or does truth in morality and religion really matter?

    It really matters. How do we know?

    First, even though people may claim that truth in morality doesn’t matter, they don’t really believe that when someone treats them immorally.

    For example, they might claim that lying isn’t wrong, but just watch how morally outraged they get when you lie to them (especially if it’s about their money!). We often hear that “it’s the economy, stupid!” But just think about how much better the economy would be if everyone told the truth. There would be no Enrons or Tycos. There would be no scandals or scams. There would be no burdensome government regulations. Of course the economy is important, but it’s directly affected by morality!

    Morality undergirds virtually everything we do. It not only affects us financially, but, in certain circumstances, it also affects us socially, psychologically, spiritually, and even physically.

    Second, truth in morality matters is because success in life is often dependent on the moral choices a person makes. These include choices regarding sex, marriage, children, drugs, money, business dealings, and so on. Some choices bring prosperity, others result in ruin.

    Third, all laws legislate morality. The only question is, “Whose morality will be legislated?” Think about it. Every law declares one behavior right and its opposite wrong—that’s morality. Whose morality should be legislated on issues such as abortion or euthanasia? These are issues that directly impact the lives and health of real people.

    What about truth in religion?

    If the atheists are right, then we might as well lie, cheat, and steal to get what we want because this life is all there is, and there are no consequences in eternity.

    In biology class, we essentially teach kids that there’s really no difference between any human being and a pig. After all, if we’re merely the product of blind naturalistic forces—if no deity created us with any special significance—then we are nothing more than pigs with big brains. Does this religious (atheistic) “truth” matter? It does when kids carry out its implications. Instead of good citizens who see people made in the image of God, we may potentially produce criminals who see no meaning or value in human life. Ideas have consequences.

    On the positive side, Mother Teresa helped improve conditions in India by challenging the religious beliefs of many in the Hindu culture. The Hindu belief in karma and reincarnation leads many Hindus to ignore the cries of the suffering. Why? Because they believe that those who suffer deserve their plight for doing something wrong in a previous life. So, if you help suffering people, you are interfering with their karma.

    Mother Teresa taught Hindus in India the Christian principles of caring for the poor and suffering. Does that religious idea matter? Ask the millions whose lives she touched. Does the religious teaching of karma matter? Ask the millions still suffering.

    The bottom line is this: regardless of what the real truth is concerning religion and morality, our lives are greatly affected by it today and perhaps even in eternity. Those who cavalierly say, “So what? Who cares about truth in morality and religion?” are ignoring reality and are blindly skating on thin ice. We owe it to ourselves and others to find the real truth, and then act on it.
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 02-19-2021 at 05:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDonkeyBallz View Post
    What about truth in religion?

    If the atheists are right, then we might as well lie, cheat, and steal to get what we want because this life is all there is, and there are no consequences in eternity.
    I fear my own conscience more than I fear God. Theists believe in God, and lie, cheat, and steal. God itself tells people to follow its commandments only to break them itself.

    From Existentialism is a Humanism by Jean-Paul Sartre.

    "Atheistic existentialism, which I represent, is more consistent. It states that if God does not exist, there is at least one being in whom existence precedes essence -a being whose existence comes before its essence, a being who exists before he can be defined by any concept of it. That being is man, or, as Heidegger put it, the human reality. What do we mean here by "existence precedes essence"? We mean that man first exists: he materializes in the world, encounters himself, and only afterward defines himself. If man as existentialists conceive of him cannot be defined, it is because to begin with he is nothing. He will not be anything until later, and then he will he what he makes of himself. Thus, there is no human nature since there is no God to conceive of it. Man is not only that which he conceives himself to be, but that which he wills himself to be, and since he conceives of himself only after he exists, just as he wills himself to be after being thrown into existence, man is nothing other than what he makes of himself. This is the first principle of existentialism." ~ Jean-Paul Sartre

    From The Ethics of Ambiguity by Simone de Beauvoir:

    "Before existence there is no more reason to exist than not to exist. The lack of existence can not be evaluated since it is the fact on the basis of which all evaluation is defined. It can not be compared to anything for there is nothing outside of it to serve as a term of comparison. This rejection of any extrinsic justification also confirm the rejection of an original pessimism which we posited at the beginning. Since it is unjustifiable from without, to declare from without that it is unjustifiable is not to condemn it. And the truth is that outside of existence there is nobody. Man exists. For him it is not a question of wondering whether his presence in the world is useful, whether life is worth the trouble of being lived. These questions make no sense. It is a matter of knowing whether he wants to live and under what conditions.

    But if man is free to define for himself the conditions of a life which is valid in his own eyes, can he not choose whatever he likes and act however he likes? Dostoevsky asserted, "If God does not exist, everything is permitted." Today's believers use this formula for their own advantage. To re-establish man at the heart of his destiny is, they claim, to repudiate all ethics. However, far from God's absence authorizing all license, the contrary is the case, because man is abandoned on the earth, because his acts are definitive, absolute engagements. He bears the responsibility for a world which is not the work of a strange power, but of himself, where his defeats are inscribed, and his victories as well. A God can pardon, efface, and compensate. But if God does not exist, man's faults are inexpiable. If it is claimed that, whatever the case may be, this earthly stake has no importance, this is precisely because one invokes that inhuman objectivity which we declined at the start. One can not start by saying that our earthly destiny has or has not importance, for it depends upon us to give it importance. It is up to man to make it important to be a man, and he alone can feel his success or failure. And if it is again said that nothing forces him to try to justify his being in this way, then one is playing upon the notion of freedom in a dishonest way. The believer is also free to sin. The divine law is imposed upon him only from the moment he decides to save his soul. In the Christian religion, though one speaks very little about them today, there are also the damned. Thus, on the earthly plane, a life which does not seek to ground itself will be a pure contingency. But it is permitted to wish to give itself a meaning and a truth, and it then meets rigorous demands within its own heart.

    However, even among the proponents of secular ethics, there are many who charge existentialism with offering no objective content to the moral act. It is said that this philosophy is subjective, even solipsistic. If he is once enclosed within himself, how can man get out? But there too we have a great deal of dishonesty. It is rather well known that the fact of being a subject is a universal fact and that the Cartesian cogito expresses both the most individual experience and the most objective truth. By affirming that the source of all values resides in the freedom of man, existentialism merely carries on the tradition of Kant, Fichte, and Hegel, who, in the words of Hegel himself, "have taken for their point of departure the principle according to which the essence of right and duty and the essence of the thinking and willing subject are absolutely identical." The idea that defines all humanism is that the world is not a given world, foreign to man, one to which he has to force himself to yield without. It is the world willed by man, insofar as his will expresses his genuine reality." ~ Simone de Beauvoir

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDonkeyBallz View Post
    On the positive side, Mother Teresa helped improve conditions in India by challenging the religious beliefs of many in the Hindu culture. The Hindu belief in karma and reincarnation leads many Hindus to ignore the cries of the suffering. Why? Because they believe that those who suffer deserve their plight for doing something wrong in a previous life. So, if you help suffering people, you are interfering with their karma.

    Mother Teresa taught Hindus in India the Christian principles of caring for the poor and suffering. Does that religious idea matter? Ask the millions whose lives she touched. Does the religious teaching of karma matter? Ask the millions still suffering.
    Suffering for Jesus

    Mother Teresa allowed suffering in her institutions with such depressing regularity one would assume she was sure suffering in the name of Jesus is a good thing. Teresa was not even sure God or Jesus exists.

    Mother Teresa is thoroughly saturated with a primitive fundamentalist religious worldview that sees pain, hardship, and suffering as ennobling experiences and a beautiful expression of affiliation with Jesus Christ and his ordeal on the cross. Hitchens reports that in a filmed interview Mother Teresa herself tells of a patient suffering unbearable pain from terminal cancer: "With a smile, Mother Teresa told the camera what she told the patient: 'You are suffering like Christ on the cross. So Jesus must be kissing you.'" Apparently unaware that the response of the sufferer was a put-down, she freely related it: "Then please tell him to stop kissing me."[13]
    Well-meaning people donate money to Mother Teresa's organisation and imagine that they are helping people. Few realise that donations sometimes help Mother Teresa's order of nuns to hurt people rather than help them. Hemant Mehta relates the following:[14]

    Over hundreds of hours of research, much of it cataloged in a book he published in 2003, Dr. Chatterjee said he found a “cult of suffering” in homes run by Mother Teresa’s organization, the Missionaries of Charity, with children tied to beds and little to comfort dying patients but aspirin. He and others said that Mother Teresa took her adherence to frugality and simplicity in her work to extremes, allowing practices like the reuse of hypodermic needles and tolerating primitive facilities that required patients to defecate in front of one another. “[Western audiences] don’t care about whether a third-world city’s dignity or prestige has been hampered by an Albanian nun,” he said. “So, obviously, they may be interested in the lies and the charlatans and the fraud that’s going on, but the whole story, they’re not interested in.”
    Donors expected what they gave would go to help poor people. It did not.[15]

    A widow, Sarnakar said she was admitted to Nirmal Hriday a decade ago with tuberculosis. Medical care was basic, and Sarnakar recalled that many in the women’s ward did not survive. “The ones who die, they die,” Sarnakar said. “But for those who can get better, the sisters are very good to us.” They die if they don’t get medical treatment. The nun could have spent the money to make that happen, but she gave it to the Vatican instead.[16]
    While Mother Teresa was a sadist, she wasn't as masochistic:

    [W]hen it came to her own death, Teresa refused to be treated in one of her own unsanitary facilities that glorified and promoted the suffering and pain of others. Researchers said that when it came to her own treatment, “she received it in a modern American hospital.” Apparently for Teresa suffering was beautiful only if it was someone else doing the suffering.[1]
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDonkeyBallz View Post
    That sums up the problem in America today. Many of us are ignorant and apathetic about truth—but not when it comes to money, medicine, or the other tangible items. We care passionately about those things. But many people are ignorant and apathetic about truth in morality and religion. Are the people who have adopted the “whatever” theme of the culture right, or does truth in morality and religion really matter?

    It really matters. How do we know?

    First, even though people may claim that truth in morality doesn’t matter, they don’t really believe that when someone treats them immorally.

    For example, they might claim that lying isn’t wrong, but just watch how morally outraged they get when you lie to them (especially if it’s about their money!). We often hear that “it’s the economy, stupid!” But just think about how much better the economy would be if everyone told the truth. There would be no Enrons or Tycos. There would be no scandals or scams. There would be no burdensome government regulations. Of course the economy is important, but it’s directly affected by morality!

    Morality undergirds virtually everything we do. It not only affects us financially, but, in certain circumstances, it also affects us socially, psychologically, spiritually, and even physically.

    Second, truth in morality matters is because success in life is often dependent on the moral choices a person makes. These include choices regarding sex, marriage, children, drugs, money, business dealings, and so on. Some choices bring prosperity, others result in ruin.

    Third, all laws legislate morality. The only question is, “Whose morality will be legislated?” Think about it. Every law declares one behavior right and its opposite wrong—that’s morality. Whose morality should be legislated on issues such as abortion or euthanasia? These are issues that directly impact the lives and health of real people.

    What about truth in religion?

    If the atheists are right, then we might as well lie, cheat, and steal to get what we want because this life is all there is, and there are no consequences in eternity.

    In biology class, we essentially teach kids that there’s really no difference between any human being and a pig. After all, if we’re merely the product of blind naturalistic forces—if no deity created us with any special significance—then we are nothing more than pigs with big brains. Does this religious (atheistic) “truth” matter? It does when kids carry out its implications. Instead of good citizens who see people made in the image of God, we may potentially produce criminals who see no meaning or value in human life. Ideas have consequences.

    On the positive side, Mother Teresa helped improve conditions in India by challenging the religious beliefs of many in the Hindu culture. The Hindu belief in karma and reincarnation leads many Hindus to ignore the cries of the suffering. Why? Because they believe that those who suffer deserve their plight for doing something wrong in a previous life. So, if you help suffering people, you are interfering with their karma.

    Mother Teresa taught Hindus in India the Christian principles of caring for the poor and suffering. Does that religious idea matter? Ask the millions whose lives she touched. Does the religious teaching of karma matter? Ask the millions still suffering.

    The bottom line is this: regardless of what the real truth is concerning religion and morality, our lives are greatly affected by it today and perhaps even in eternity. Those who cavalierly say, “So what? Who cares about truth in morality and religion?” are ignoring reality and are blindly skating on thin ice. We owe it to ourselves and others to find the real truth, and then act on it.
    Some theists like you say that without belief in God, they would have no reason not to do "bad" things. I only hope that such theists don't lose their belief in God, for all our sakes. If you don't see doing a good thing as good because it is a good thing, then it suggests to me you are acting out of fear or selfishness. How can you claim that the "human being" is a higher animal if you are so base?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Because this is what you stated it. I know why people don't conform - why would you conform when you don't believe? I wonder why people actually think it doesn't matter. But then, I can remember a time which i wrote about here when I thought it didn't matter. I thought i already knew all about it, and though i sensed I was looking for something, i was sure it wasn't that. (But it was.)
    Why would people want to join a cult?

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    Certain strains of Christianity should be classified as a mental illness.




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