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Thread: Religion is Everything

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    Enlightened Hedonist Subteigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDonkeyBallz View Post
    u are a failure and a disappointment. u are a loser and you will never amount to anything no matter what you do. u are a coward, an absolute embarrassment and a weak parasite and from this moment on, anything you say or do is garbage and worthless to me. One day everyone you pollute in your world will realise the garbage u are and leave you
    The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: “Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause you to hear My words.” Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make. Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?” says the Lord. “Look, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel!
    And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.
    .

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    So far I've learned that religion and non-religion want to gut each other's balls and spill bile all over each other, while slowly skinning and hanging the other upside on a noose. All that blood dripping down and all the observers trying to figure out what the hell the big deal is anyway.

    edit: Maybe that is everything though?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Just rename this place Beta Central lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    The only problem socionics has given me is a propensity to analyze every relationship from the lens of socionics and I also see that it is worse in my boyfriend. Nothing makes any sense that way and it does not really solve any problems.





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    Unites the human race! The Internationale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Some here write as if it is nothing. It shocks me when I read it, and I question if I have read mistakenly. But particularly in these times some have this view. It is hard to fathom, because religion, or God, is everything. I feel sorry especially for those raised in places where religion is outlawed, and come from generations of unbelievers. Belief in and relationship to God is one of those things that makes us quite different from the animals. Yes, it is the best and also the the worst of humanity that makes us so distinct from the animals.

    But the spiritual realm is the greater reality. Holy Scripture tells us that "We fight not against flesh and blood but powers and principalities". Like that angel on your one shoulder and the devil on the other. That is reality.
    I escaped the Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm fine being a non-theistic humanist who attends a Unitarian Universalist congregation and a Humanist group right after. I focus most of my passion on my politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDonkeyBallz View Post
    ur masquerading urself as a fake crusade when we all know that ur actually an intolerant, intellectually dishonest know-it-all underneath
    I don't know that.

    Subteigh's shown kindness and intellectual honesty to me.

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    God, if that creature even exists, is a demon.

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    Cool it with the anti-Grenitic remarks bucko! Grendel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    The only way I can place ~*passion*~ for atheism into a context that makes any sense is that the person must have been hurt by religion during a formative period. Whenever I see "haha God believers are stupid haha" I always think: who hurt you?
    I think I've dunked so hard on bad atheist cliches for a while that some people think I'm religious when I'm not.
    Now I have to dunk on traditional religions again just to be fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    edit: Maybe that is everything though?
    Based.

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    Now I wanna see the cliches used against traditional religion applied to modern philosophic assumptions, too. Like utilitarianism!

    "God tells us not to be selfish, but himself is selfish, therefore he is a hypocrite."
    Alright, let's just replace "God" with the "greater good" and run it again.

    Why can't we do that, eh? Why can't we pwn Utilitarianism, too? Doesn't worshiping something physical, and therefore transient, make even less sense than worshiping something sublime, beyond the world? Then why treat physical people and things with this same misplaced reverence we once applied to gods? It only makes sense if you have a burning desire to worship something. Why not worship the worship of nothing, instead?

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    Cthulhu mythos's gods seem fun to me. Play/worship them would be alot of fun.

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    Haikus SGF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    Cthulhu mythos's gods seem fun to me. Play/worship them would be alot of fun.
    welcome young one, may I introduce you to the gr8 old ones..? Its like being a mind-flayer with none of the drawbacks! >3



    Warlocks who make a pact with a Great Old One are masters of deception and corruption. Their patron grants them access to additional spells, as well as a number of innate magical abilities that awaken their minds to supernatural power. Warlocks gain four subclass features at 1st, 6th, 10th, and 14th level. You can read all of the Great Old One features in the Player’s Handbook. In summary, your subclass features allow you to:

    Gain access to an expanded list of warlock spells
    Telepathically communicate with nearby creatures
    Instantaneously debuff foes, and possibly gain a bonus to your next attack
    Steel your mind against telepathic intrusion
    Transform humanoids into your alien thralls

    Benefits of the Great Old One

    The Great Old One is an alien entity that grants its adherents strange and unsettling powers. Using spells like Tasha’s hideous laughter and dominate person, your additional warlock spells help you debuff and eventually even mentally take control of your foes. Though your spells and spells and unique Eldritch Invocations are the cornerstones of your magical strength, you gain a number of subclass features that supplement the eerie power of your patron.

    Drawbacks of the Great Old One

    One of the greatest drawbacks of the Great Old One warlock patron is that it’s so straightforwardly evil. It can be hard to play a character with the Great Old One as their patron in parties with an upright, moral bent. It’s not impossible—not all alien intelligences have to be evil—but playing even a morally ambiguous Great Old One warlock is a challenge. Rather than using one of the classic Elder Evils of D&D—such as Dendar the Night Serpent, Tharizdun the Chained God, or Kyuss the Worm That Walks—consider creating your own alien power.

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    Life without religion or spirituality of any kind would be quite the depressing life to live. How one can live a life of complete materialism is beyond me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LemurianLo View Post
    Life without religion or spirituality of any kind would be quite the depressing life to live. How one can live a life of complete materialism is beyond me.
    I don't know, but God wants me to have a jet plane. Please send money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I don't know, but God wants me to have a jet plane. Please send money.
    k Kenneth Copeland

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    God, if that creature even exists, is a demon.
    You might be interested in the etymology of “demon.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Eliza, do you really think that religious belief necessarily makes someone want to become a better person?


    Please don't quote this post. It's personal and I intend to delete it.
    A Catholic guy once told me that most people like to pretend to be Christian, because its the religion they were born into. Its a social thing, most people also like to pretend to be decent, to signal their virtue to others, its like when people post lies on Facebook, so others can see how well their lives are going. Its all fake though, calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you one. If I pretend to be a fish and drown in the lake am I a fish?

    There are however other people I've met who have done some really shady & degenerate shit and genuinely regret it. They find salvation in religion and try to be better people. I don't want to take that away from them tbh. What matters is that we choose to be better out of our own free will. What "better" actually means however is debatable.

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    ...I'd prefer to learn without suffering, personally.
    Omigosh, me, too! I have low pain tolerance. I'm good at thinking ahead in order to avoid any possible suffering for myself. [my SLE son has a much higher pain and suffering tolerance.] But it is impossible to live in this life without suffering, and it is GREAT to know that there is meaning in suffering as well as goo0d fruit from it, that it can be a great efficacious good. God makes all things work together for the good, including suffering. No one teaches the good of suffering as well as the Catholic Church.

    Once, I went to a Catholic event in our city and us regular folks were sitting at tables just enjoying each others company (between speakers or something), when a guy came around with little pamphlets and asked us fellow Catholics, smiling engagingly, "Who would like to be a Victim Soul?" He got no response except averted eyes, which did not discourage him, so I said, "I don't want to be Victim Soul because I don't like suffering. I avoid it." Nods all around. But he talked reasonable, and I took the pamphlet. Apparently we don't have to scourge ourselves or wear hair shirts, but just offer the suffering we have in our everyday life, since we all have suffering. I endeavor to do this, though I am not consistent by any means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    If you think suffering is good, then to me, it is difficult to see how you could consider anything bad. I don't think I could ever trust a person who thinks that suffering is good and who not only does not have their own self-preservation at heart but does not have the self-preservation of others at heart either.
    Understandable because to think suffering is good is liken to enjoying it or something, and who would trust such a person? But we imitate Christs whose sufferings were efficacious for the whole world. We make up for what is lacking in Christs sufferings. What is lacking? Our own suffering. We unite our own to His for specific purposes, or we let God choose (like in prayer below). Sometimes we offer for a specific purpose. Lent started yesterday so what an appropriate topic.

    Daily Morning Prayer of Offering: "Lord Jesus, I offer you, through the Immaculate heart of Mary, my prayers, works, joys, and sufferings of this day, for all the intentions of your Sacred Heart."
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Eliza, do you really think that religious belief necessarily makes someone want to become a better person?

    Please don't quote this post. It's personal and I intend to delete it.

    All I ever got was ... a sense of humour.
    @xerxe, I think you can take pride in the fact that you are doing better than your parents.

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    Enlightened Hedonist Subteigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Omigosh, me, too! I have low pain tolerance. I'm good at thinking ahead in order to avoid any possible suffering for myself. [my SLE son has a much higher pain and suffering tolerance.] But it is impossible to live in this life without suffering, [...]
    That's a defeatist attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    , and it is GREAT to know that there is meaning in suffering as well as goo0d fruit from it, that it can be a great efficacious good. God makes all things work together for the good, including suffering. No one teaches the good of suffering as well as the Catholic Church.
    There is no higher meaning in suffering, that is purely a human view of things. Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu told children that "Pain and suffering have come into your life, but remember pain, sorrow, suffering are but the kiss of Jesus - a sign that you have come so close to Him that He can kiss you.", and increased the suffering of children who were supposed to be in her care - one child replied to her "Then please tell him to stop kissing me." Sadly, this is where seeing suffering as having absolute value gets you. Anjezë herself did everything she could to escape suffering when she was the one who was facing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Once, I went to a Catholic event in our city and us regular folks were sitting at tables just enjoying each others company (between speakers or something), when a guy came around with little pamphlets and asked us fellow Catholics, smiling engagingly, "Who would like to be a Victim Soul?" He got no response except averted eyes, which did not discourage him, so I said, "I don't want to be Victim Soul because I don't like suffering. I avoid it." Nods all around. But he talked reasonable, and I took the pamphlet. Apparently we don't have to scourge ourselves or wear hair shirts, but just offer the suffering we have in our everyday life, since we all have suffering. I endeavor to do this, though I am not consistent by any means.


    Understandable because to think suffering is good is liken to enjoying it or something, and who would trust such a person? But we imitate Christs whose sufferings were efficacious for the whole world. We make up for what is lacking in Christs sufferings. What is lacking? Our own suffering. We unite our own to His for specific purposes, or we let God choose (like in prayer below). Sometimes we offer for a specific purpose. Lent started yesterday so what an appropriate topic.
    With a person who does not care about their own suffering you have no reason to know that they care about the suffering of others and of minimizing suffering. I would say that a person who knows they are capable of preventing suffering but chooses not to can only be a "bad" person by my standard. Jesus and the Christian God are two such beings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Daily Morning Prayer of Offering: "Lord Jesus, I offer you, through the Immaculate heart of Mary, my prayers, works, joys, and sufferings of this day, for all the intentions of your Sacred Heart."
    Christian doctrine of the New Testament says there is only one intercessor - Jesus, not Mary. What's more, there's no evidence in the New Testament that Mary was resurrected and went straight to Heaven or that she was especially valued by Jesus. In fact, Mary is one of the people Jesus rebukes in the New Testament.

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Internationale View Post
    I escaped the Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm fine being a non-theistic humanist who attends a Unitarian Universalist congregation and a Humanist group right after. I focus most of my passion on my politics.
    Jehovah's Witness is a cult. You have been given a wrong idea about God. I am glad you got out of that. But seek God Himself. He says, "If you seek Me, you will find Me." That is the truth. And Unitarianism is not enough. Jesus says, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light. No one comes to the Father but by me."

    I really respect that you live your life very morally. I have been bothered by something I said to you in chat, "I could never be Democrat". It is true, but, I hardly know you, and such a statement sounds judgmental, So I am sorry. I am sure you are Democrat for all good reasons. I said it because life is of first, prime importance, over everything. No other platform supersedes it. You cannot have any other thing without life. Abortion is an intrinsic evil in every circumstance. Biden, opposite, says he supports abortion in every circumstance. Even murdering the child who survives it! Our nation cannot elect a rabid pro-abortion president and have God's favor, which we cannot continue to exist without. [Fortunately, God knows we did not elect Biden, and that the government behind the armed wall-fence is illegitimate.]
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  21. #101
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    @Subteigh, you are an odd one - a Protestant Apologist AND an atheist. As to the former, my research and experience is far more extensive than yours. I have an entire library, and that is been culled down to half!

    Martin Luther was plagued with scrupulosity, and that sickness was the foundation upon which he formed his beliefs. Theology based on a grave psychological disorder is naturally malformed.

    As to the latter, Atheism is your cherished identify and I can't relief you of that malady. Only God can. For that, I pledge to pray and offer sufferings this Lent.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  22. #102
    Enlightened Hedonist Subteigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    @Subteigh, you are an odd one - a Protestant Apologist AND an atheist. As to the former, my research and experience is far more extensive than yours. I have an entire library, and that is been culled down to half!

    Martin Luther was plagued with scrupulosity, and that sickness was the foundation upon which he formed his beliefs. Theology based on a grave psychological disorder is naturally malformed.

    As to the latter, Atheism is your cherished identify and I can't relief you of that malady. Only God can. For that, I pledge to pray and offer sufferings this Lent.
    In Northern Ireland, there's a joke about how atheists get asked if they're a Protestant atheist or a Catholic one.

    I'm only telling you what it says in the New Testament. If Catholicism has added things to that, that is their choice.

    I'm not convinced that your research and experience is far more extensive than mine, or even that it is more extensive than mine. I have found you to be ignorant even of Catholic practices.

    Do you think Martin Luther was wrong to campaign against the selling of indulgences by the papacy then? I asked you before which of Luther's Ninety-five Theses you agree with, but you didn't get back to me on that.

    I don't call myself an "atheist". You might find that an useful label, I do not. I lack a belief in the existence of a lot of things - I see no wisdom to define myself in terms of what I don't believe in. I also do not want to give the Catholic god the illusion of respectability, more than say the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the invisible dragon in my garage, or the teapot orbiting around the Sun between the Earth and Mars. There is absolutely nothing that could convince me that a supernatural being exists - things either exist as part of Nature or they cannot be observed.

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    @Subteigh, Does your Luther research include the Grzegorz Braun documentary? It's an eye-opener. Probably not the rosy picture you have.

    Did you learn about indulgences from a Catholic source, or from an anti-Catholic source? A Catechism is easy to get ahold of. Yes, there were abuses. Jesus had a Judas, and we have many. The Church continually needs reforms. Do you know what a Doctor of the Church is?

    You wrote:

    " I also do not want to give the Catholic God the illusion of respectability".
    I see.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  24. #104
    DeliMeat's Avatar
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    By golly, this is a better game than football!



    I almost wanna try out for a position!

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Translates thread: Why won't other people conform to my organized religion?
    Because this is what you stated it. I know why people don't conform - why would you conform when you don't believe? I wonder why people actually think it doesn't matter. But then, I can remember a time which i wrote about here when I thought it didn't matter. I thought i already knew all about it, and though i sensed I was looking for something, i was sure it wasn't that. (But it was.)
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Because this is what you stated it. I know why people don't conform - why would you conform when you don't believe? I wonder why people actually think it doesn't matter. But then, I can remember a time which i wrote about here when I thought it didn't matter. I thought i already knew all about it, and though i sensed I was looking for something, i was sure it wasn't that. (But it was.)
    Translates post: People just don't yet KNOW they want to convert to my religion and if they made a decision not to it means they don't know enough about it.

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    Cool it with the anti-Grenitic remarks bucko! Grendel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    So we're agreed that religion is immaterial.
    Honestly who cares. Egoism/collectivism is more important to me than material/immaterial.

    Utilitarians today with their cults of civic-mindedness and schools and medicine are still saturated with these puritan and catholic instincts, just secularized. I'd much rather be the converse even, an egoist with superstitions, not a collectivist with no enchantment.... which is basically a dark sorcerer now that I think about it. We've really become the most sterile of both worlds lol.



    "NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST GO TO THE GROCERY STORE AND COUGH!" is today's version of "NOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST HASTEN ARMAGEDDON!"/

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  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Jehovah's Witness is a cult. You have been given a wrong idea about God. I am glad you got out of that. But seek God Himself. He says, "If you seek Me, you will find Me." That is the truth. And Unitarianism is not enough. Jesus says, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light. No one comes to the Father but by me."

    I really respect that you live your life very morally. I have been bothered by something I said to you in chat, "I could never be Democrat". It is true, but, I hardly know you, and such a statement sounds judgmental, So I am sorry. I am sure you are Democrat for all good reasons. I said it because life is of first, prime importance, over everything. No other platform supersedes it. You cannot have any other thing without life. Abortion is an intrinsic evil in every circumstance. Biden, opposite, says he supports abortion in every circumstance. Even murdering the child who survives it! Our nation cannot elect a rabid pro-abortion president and have God's favor, which we cannot continue to exist without. [Fortunately, God knows we did not elect Biden, and that the government behind the armed wall-fence is illegitimate.]
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demo...ife_of_America

    I do work with this organization for this very reason.
    Neither party (on the national level) takes the right position on ethics when it comes to every issue, but there are subgroups within the Democratic party I can throw my weight behind. Despite having radical left views on virtually every issue, I split with Democrats on guns and abortion. LGBT is harmless enough as it doesn't harm other people.

    I agree that killing abortion survivors is especially cruel, and such children should be placed for adoption rather than killed.

    Abortions post-viability should carry a penalty for the doctor thus performing such a post-viability abortion.

    Pre-viability abortion is a trickier issue--in that case, the question becomes whether there is a medical reason or financial reason the child cannot be brought to term. In the case of a financial reason, money and support should be provided by the state. In the case of a medical reason, an abortion may be preferable to the mother dying (thus also killing the child), or the mother needing to carry a stillborn (dead) child.


    I could never be a Republican since Republicans sacrifice the well-being of the environment, working-class people, and parents on the altar of Mammon, and they are often warhawks (even if Democrats are becoming nearly as hawkish lately.)

    I'm going to bed, but I think that's a good quick response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I wonder why people actually think it doesn't matter.
    That sums up the problem in America today. Many of us are ignorant and apathetic about truth—but not when it comes to money, medicine, or the other tangible items. We care passionately about those things. But many people are ignorant and apathetic about truth in morality and religion. Are the people who have adopted the “whatever” theme of the culture right, or does truth in morality and religion really matter?

    It really matters. How do we know?

    First, even though people may claim that truth in morality doesn’t matter, they don’t really believe that when someone treats them immorally.

    For example, they might claim that lying isn’t wrong, but just watch how morally outraged they get when you lie to them (especially if it’s about their money!). We often hear that “it’s the economy, stupid!” But just think about how much better the economy would be if everyone told the truth. There would be no Enrons or Tycos. There would be no scandals or scams. There would be no burdensome government regulations. Of course the economy is important, but it’s directly affected by morality!

    Morality undergirds virtually everything we do. It not only affects us financially, but, in certain circumstances, it also affects us socially, psychologically, spiritually, and even physically.

    Second, truth in morality matters is because success in life is often dependent on the moral choices a person makes. These include choices regarding sex, marriage, children, drugs, money, business dealings, and so on. Some choices bring prosperity, others result in ruin.

    Third, all laws legislate morality. The only question is, “Whose morality will be legislated?” Think about it. Every law declares one behavior right and its opposite wrong—that’s morality. Whose morality should be legislated on issues such as abortion or euthanasia? These are issues that directly impact the lives and health of real people.

    What about truth in religion?

    If the atheists are right, then we might as well lie, cheat, and steal to get what we want because this life is all there is, and there are no consequences in eternity.

    In biology class, we essentially teach kids that there’s really no difference between any human being and a pig. After all, if we’re merely the product of blind naturalistic forces—if no deity created us with any special significance—then we are nothing more than pigs with big brains. Does this religious (atheistic) “truth” matter? It does when kids carry out its implications. Instead of good citizens who see people made in the image of God, we may potentially produce criminals who see no meaning or value in human life. Ideas have consequences.

    On the positive side, Mother Teresa helped improve conditions in India by challenging the religious beliefs of many in the Hindu culture. The Hindu belief in karma and reincarnation leads many Hindus to ignore the cries of the suffering. Why? Because they believe that those who suffer deserve their plight for doing something wrong in a previous life. So, if you help suffering people, you are interfering with their karma.

    Mother Teresa taught Hindus in India the Christian principles of caring for the poor and suffering. Does that religious idea matter? Ask the millions whose lives she touched. Does the religious teaching of karma matter? Ask the millions still suffering.

    The bottom line is this: regardless of what the real truth is concerning religion and morality, our lives are greatly affected by it today and perhaps even in eternity. Those who cavalierly say, “So what? Who cares about truth in morality and religion?” are ignoring reality and are blindly skating on thin ice. We owe it to ourselves and others to find the real truth, and then act on it.
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 02-19-2021 at 05:26 AM.

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    Ксеркс, царь царей xerx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @xerxe, I think you can take pride in the fact that you are doing better than your parents.
    I used to have a friend, a sociopath who liked to steal, get into fights, and deal drugs with the explicit intention of watching people get addicted (he didn't need the money) --- incidentally, this person saw himself as an intellectual and introduced me to Jungian psychology before I cut off contact.

    At the same time, I was recovering from depression, and a natural hangout was this mental health forum where people discussed depression alongside other personality disorders like sociopathy. One young poster had a mother who liked cutting him with a knife because she enjoyed sewing back the wound, a mother that he alleged was a psychopath. Real or fake, his story is definitely much worse than mine. (:
    Last edited by xerx; 02-19-2021 at 09:31 AM.

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    Omg @DrDonkeyBallz , etc. there is more to spirituality than being an American Christian or an atheist. If you believe that humans are spiritual beings then you must know that each person will find their own pathway, whether you understand it or not. This is what "free will" is all about.

    The only issue I have with religions when I have one is this constant pushiness to convert other people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Omg @DrDonkeyBallz , etc. there is more to spirituality than being an American Christian or an atheist. If you believe that humans are spiritual beings then you must know that each person will find their own pathway, whether you understand it or not. This is what "free will" is all about.

    The only issue I have with religions when I have one is this constant pushiness to convert other people.
    ur either gaslighting or just really bad at reading comprehension

    if it's the latter, here's the summary:

    The bottom line is this: regardless of what the real truth is concerning religion and morality, our lives are greatly affected by it today and perhaps even in eternity. Those who cavalierly say, “So what? Who cares about truth in morality and religion?” are ignoring reality and are blindly skating on thin ice. We owe it to ourselves and others to find the real truth, and then act on it.

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    Whether a person is stupid or not, accept the truth or not (but what the f*** is the truth anyway, how someone is so sure that their truth is the real truth?), as long as that person has the abilities to live the life as he/she wish to live, doesn't regret the choices he/she has made, so what the matter?

    Exp: an evil person, born as evil, and "evil" his way to the end of his life. And in the last moment, he die peacefully (hang?), doesn't regret of all the evil things he has done, doesn't fear death, fear hell, fear gods, or any punishments... In his point of view, at least he has done as many evil things as he could, not a loser who can't do anything he truly wish to do...

    We could hate him, we could pity him, we could say that he took the wrong path, but we can't change his mind that he has lived a wonderful life full of evil .... (too much evil lol)

    P/s: just an example suddenly come up from my mind, I'm not evil!
    Last edited by Moharu; 02-19-2021 at 06:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    Whether a person is stupid or not, accept the truth or not (but what the f*** is the truth anyway, how someone is so sure that their truth is the real truth?), as long as that person has the abilities to live the life as he/she wish to live, doesn't regret the choices he/she has made, so what the matter?

    Exp: an evil person, born as evil, and "evil" his way to the end of his life. And in the last moment, he die peacefully (hang?), doesn't regret of all the evil things he has done, doesn't fear death, fear hell, fear gods, or any punishments... In his point of view, at least he has done as many evil things as he could, not a loser who can't do anything he truly wish to do...

    P/s: just an example suddenly come up from my mind, I'm not evil!

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    If we change the example just a little bit, from (the evil guy) to (a zealot come from some random religion)

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Where's the lie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Where's the lie?
    while it is true that reality as experienced by man is subjective (sense of time, space and so on) and the true nature of reality cannot be fully experienced or reasoned by primitive meat-vessels such as ourselves, reason still demands that objective reality exists outside of our subjective perception, so there are fundamental truths regardless of our inability to comprehend them.

    Morality independent of theology and metaphysics, based only in reason inevitably leads to the death of God. Once this occurs morality becomes vulnerable to criticism. Consequently secular rational morality is hollow, being a mere rigid command. One can't justify such a command as the ground upon which one tries to reason is like quicksand. Without an absolute basis for good and evil moral norms are whatever suit the individual for it's own advantage. Basically "you can do whatever, it does not matter as there is no absolute truth".. nihilism.

    Nihilism, this bourgeoise disease of the soul is what plagues people today, their lives misery in affluence, depression, lack of meaning and hope. We thought traditions chained us, we wished to be free.. little did we know the chains nourished us and without them we are lost and dying of thirst in the desert of absurdity.

    Everything is permitted. Man has failed to become God. Man is misery incarnate.


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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    while it is true that reality as experienced by man is subjective (sense of time, space and so on) and the true nature of reality cannot be fully experienced or reasoned by primitive meat-vessels such as ourselves, reason still demands that objective reality exists outside of our subjective perception, so there are fundamental truths regardless of our inability to comprehend them.

    Morality independent of theology and metaphysics, based only in reason inevitably leads to the death of God. Once this occurs morality becomes vulnerable to criticism. Consequently secular rational morality is hollow, being a mere rigid command. One can't justify such a command as the ground upon which one tries to reason is like quicksand. Without an absolute basis for good and evil moral norms are whatever suit the individual for it's own advantage. Basically "you can do whatever, it does not matter as there is no absolute truth".. nihilism.

    Nihilism, this bourgeoise disease of the soul is what plagues people today, their lives misery in affluence, depression, lack of meaning and hope. We thought traditions chained us, we wished to be free.. little did we know the chains nourished us and without them we are lost and dying of thirst in the desert of absurdity.

    Everything is permitted. Man has failed to become God. Man is misery incarnate.

    If you need to belong to something greater than yourself to feel validated and cannot simply find fulfillment within, you might be a tiny person.

    Sorry for not wanting to share in mankind's collective submission-fetish, I cannot help the fact that I'm naturally far above it. We're already pushing mountains around, we have essentially become gods enough already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    If you need to belong to something greater than yourself to feel validated and cannot simply find fulfillment within, you might be a tiny person.

    Sorry for not wanting to share in mankind's collective submission-fetish, I cannot help the fact that I'm naturally far above it. We're already pushing mountains around, we have essentially become gods enough already.
    You don't get it, but it doesn't matter anyway.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    You don't get it, but it doesn't matter anyway.
    I get that a container can't fully ensconce another container of an equal volume and composition or larger, yes. That's basically what the search for meaning is. It's the brain trying to simulate something it can't contain.

    If it can never succeed, then it doesn't need to worry about succeeding. I'd also conjecture that most of the nice things we have aren't the product of seeking meaning, but simply survival, and meaning bulldozes over agency and survival in many cases.

    I simply don't trust it.

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