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Thread: Attitudinal Psyche type system

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i've gone through many of the russian sites and ELVF is still the best fit. everything on this page regarding 4F is true of me for the most part. the only issues are that if i could get the energy, i wouldn't live in trash and i feel psychologically broken in this area. and although it is true that appearance to me is more about emotional self-expression/identity expression, i am pained by body image matters off and on. i think the first emotion third will fits me better than the first emotion third physics. although obviously i'm not some great intellectual like hans christian andersen lol i think the descriptions for the andersen fit well enough and better than any of the other types.
    The third spot is tricky depending what's going on in life or how I'm doing psychologically overall. When I'm not doing well I get hangups in both Physics and Logic, so would almost tie those for 3rd.

    i propose just creatively giving oneself 5 slots to fill lol. i can be EELVF, in which only the first two slots are actual strengths and the L is a bit more like 3L in that it's still weak logic but it's also a bit like 2L in that it's secure. giving it an extra slot arbitrarily defined however one likes gives the system more... breathing room.
    I like it, since currently there's no option for "what if I have a bad attitude towards multiple things?" lol

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    I get VLEF, ya know, the arguing one.
    It's the best fit I guess, that's what I thought when reading descriptions but I don't think it's very good.
    I really hate arguing with people because what's the point? It's all written somewhere already anyway, if one just bothers to google it: the pros, the cons, the part that can go both sides, the part that says the argument is a waste of perfectly good time and energy, the points we are missing with the argument itself...

    I do argue with myself on a daily basis tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    I get VLEF, ya know, the arguing one.
    It's the best fit I guess, that's what I thought when reading descriptions but I don't think it's very good.
    I really hate arguing with people because what's the point? It's all written somewhere already anyway, if one just bothers to google it: the pros, the cons, the part that can go both sides, the part that says the argument is a waste of perfectly good time and energy, the points we are missing with the argument itself...

    I do argue with myself on a daily basis tho.
    Maybe try switching the places of V and L? I originally got VLEF also, but I'm not so pushy or debate-y as the 1V and 2L describe. I'd rather lecture than debate, and while I like discussion, discussion isn't debate. I don't need the back-and-forth of a debate and just look things up on my own. Sounds like you might be similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chin Diaper 007 View Post

    Yooo this site is awesome, MOAR descriptions!!


    https://6m7pgjna6sc2g3s4hthzeoyoay--...ikur-flev.html

    Right on the money. The only other type I was considering is Berthier (LFEV) and it doesn't fit at all.

    Wait I just noticed these descriptions are the same ones from bestsocionics.com except a bit longer and with different wording. They also have some interesting socionics articles for a fresh perspective on intertype relations and such. Oh wow they also have intertype relationships descriptions for different types and even different gender pairings! A bit hard to navigate the pages with those weird URLs though lol

    https://6m7pgjna6sc2g3s4hthzeoyoay--...-i-balzak.html
    https://6m7pgjna6sc2g3s4hthzeoyoay--...stoevskiy.html
    https://6m7pgjna6sc2g3s4hthzeoyoay--...-i-esenin.html

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    "Psychosophy (psycheyoga) is a typology of people , which is based not on informational metabolism, like socionics, but on the scale of human priorities. The psychophysical type, in contrast to the socionic, can change: for this you need to go through some kind of shock. In addition, if a person acquires the socionic type from birth, then we form the psychosophical type. Most often, it is formed from childhood itself - children's grievances and omissions become the third function in psychosophy (weak and vulnerable), and children's confidence and parental praise form the first function (the most confident and strong)."

    Great definition there. I would extend it and say that psyche yoga type can also change even in adulthood. I remember quite clearly how as a kid I was more like LFEV/LVEF and over time my F became rigid and my 1L softened and became more flexible. I remember my parents always said I was a stubborn (as in closed-minded) kid and that I would always think I was right and the grownups mistaken. I definitely lost that 1L know-it-all attitude growing up. And it got sorta replaced by 1F.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Maybe try switching the places of V and L? I originally got VLEF also, but I'm not so pushy or debate-y as the 1V and 2L describe. I'd rather lecture than debate, and while I like discussion, discussion isn't debate. I don't need the back-and-forth of a debate and just look things up on my own. Sounds like you might be similar.
    Perhaps I sounded unsure, like I needed help figuring it out. I've read the stuff already, seems more logical to go with an other type considering my behavior, but I don't think behavior is what they are trying to mesure.
    It comes to it because behavior is the easiest thing to observe, but it takes root deeper than we could ever guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    Perhaps I sounded unsure, like I needed help figuring it out. I've read the stuff already, seems more logical to go with an other type considering my behavior, but I don't think behavior is what they are trying to mesure.
    It comes to it because behavior is the easiest thing to observe, but it takes root deeper than we could ever guess.
    Mm yes, it's preference and priorities, which is why I made the suggestion based on what you said. Sounded like your preference was not to enforce your will on others, nor was it to be open to suggestions/debate regarding logic. But, 'twas just a suggestion, feel free to drop it off nearest cliff if you'd like

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Mm yes, it's preference and priorities, which is why I made the suggestion based on what you said. Sounded like your preference was not to enforce your will on others, nor was it to be open to suggestions/debate regarding logic. But, 'twas just a suggestion, feel free to drop it off nearest cliff if you'd like
    Hm, preferences and priorities. I only talked about my outward behavior and inner arguments, what I'd prefer is something else.
    1L is closer to what I'd like to be than what I am.

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    ... seems to fit.

    The type in psychosophy Epicurus (FLEV) is the psychotype of a person who has a stable, calm and balanced character. Quite often, there are active, emotional and interesting people near Epicure, and, as a result, an atmosphere is created where a lot of excitement and emotions of a different plan accumulate. Perhaps Epicurus himself finds himself in such an environment, perhaps he himself provokes its occurrence, but he feels himself in it like a fish in water. Epicuru is very cozy and comfortable to be in pleasant emotions , and his calmness and habit of going with the flow become quite useful when dealing with more emotional people. <== sounds like Fe seeking.

    Epicurus (FLEV) are thinkers and great debaters who value the simple joys of life.

    It happens that a representative of the FLEV type is overwhelmed by emotions that are rather difficult to control. In such a situation, Epicurus has a rather difficult time. Generally speaking, Epicurus is a kind and easy-going person. Even if he is in a quarrel, swears, argues - after a while he will cool down and will normally communicate with his irritant. And if it concerns personal relationships, then a representative of the FLEV type constantly thinks about whether he has offended someone.

    Despite the fact that FLEV is an inert type , you cannot call him weak-willed. He has developed logic, maturity of mind and the ability to learn complex professions. He can be quite childish when he enjoys the world, accepting his surroundings easily and harmoniously. When FLEV is not happy with what is happening around him, it does not bother him much, in the depths of his soul there is always peace and beauty. In reality, Epicurus accepts the environment around him with restraint and calmness, because people, their mood and morals cannot be changed, so you need to accept them as they are and live in peace.

    Epicurus always considers himself a free man , and he respects people like him - independent and independent. It is very difficult to persuade him to a relationship when he owes something to a certain person. Any dependence weighs on him. Representatives of the FLEV type want no one to control them. <== yeah absolutely true.



    >I am Mel Gibson and I approve this message!

    Epicurus loves to be in the world of emotions, but treats hysterics very badly. He appreciates and respects people who are distinguished by an emotional, active, cheerful character. With dry and difficult people in communication, he simply does not know how to talk. <== e_e holy shit, this is accurate af.

    FLEV have a subtle sense of humor, but sometimes they can offend people around them in some way. And if a representative of this type sees that he offended a person with his jokes, he will immediately stop, apologize and become softer towards the offended person. At heart, Epicurus is a rather sensitive person . He does not want to be an overbearing boss and have a bunch of ambitions, the main thing for him in life is to feel needed and loved.

    The FLEV psychotype includes hardworking and physically active people who try to devote their free time to work, but from time to time like to get carried away by pleasant conversations and philosophical discussions about life and the world. People of this type try to learn something new, regardless of the presence of education, knowledge, experience in work or in life. They always strive to think of interesting ideas and think about something.

    Epicurus loves to have a good time , to eat deliciously, to communicate with pleasant people, appreciates everyday pleasures and always makes supplies for a rainy day. Such a person tries to please himself with simple things: delicious coffee, a comfortable bed, an interesting newspaper at dinner.

    The most important thing that Epicurus values ​​in life is the stability of the material world. He very slowly adapts to the world around him, but if he found his place, he feels in his element and feels a surge of happiness . Epicurus is a lover of talking on various topics, therefore he is very often well versed in art and literature, as well as in physics. FLEV is characterized by a rather sad vision of the world, and the best remedy for sadness for him is to treat everything with irony. That is why Epicurus has a good sense of humor, loves to play a trick on himself and others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    Hm, preferences and priorities. I only talked about my outward behavior and inner arguments, what I'd prefer is something else.
    1L is closer to what I'd like to be than what I am.
    Sorry if I assumed too much. What's that saying, something like "we see the world as we are" or something, so I just assumed a similarity there when maybe there wasn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Sorry if I assumed too much. What's that saying, something like "we see the world as we are" or something, so I just assumed a similarity there when maybe there wasn't.
    I see, well that's interesting you say this, it does clarify things for me.
    It gives me food for thoughts also.
    I guess "we see the world as we are" doesn't suit me. I see the world as vast and diverse and I'm just one little finite existance. I don't mean insignificant, more like a bee in a beehive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    I do wonder if she's actually VLEF, but can't think what else would fit better. Wouldn't describe her as argumentative because she's good at gauging when someone will be able to receive what she says or not, so often she just stops arguing if she knows they aren't really interested in listening. However yeah, she doesn't yield logical points easily at all.

    I can see her fighting her natural impulse to respond to someone's point and the 9 impulse to keep the peace.



    The saturated colors are
    Depends on how you define “argumentative” because VLEF is into the logical arguments of the topic, not as in they’re starting arguments. It’s like the VLEF is passing by, saw piece of information out of place, then point it out. If the reaction against the logical evaluation is met with emotional resistance (which is often done by 1E), then arguments will ensue and VLEF will not ever let up on the logical components. 1E will often call their arguments logical when they’re emoting to throw a red herring. 2L will discuss and explore the concepts publicly.

    Yeah, the colors are fine. Not really something I’d pick if I could customize. I just got it because it was the only one that’s in my size that’s not all black, navy, or army green.


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    This site is filled with betas and 3E's. Eh.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

    Your life is too short to actually do anything useful with it without being wasteful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chin Diaper 007 View Post
    This site is filled with betas and 3E's. Eh.
    why do you say 3E? How do 3Es feel like around 1E?


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    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    why do you say 3E? How do 3Es feel like around 1E?
    Good one. I don't know. Seems like this is easy place to process it. 3L probably avoid logical assertions so not so good for this, 3F is more concerned what is out there so not fitting either, 3V might fit because it searches something to strive for.
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    I submitted my video to Timur, for the sake of getting typed in Psychosophy too. I should get the results in 7-9 days
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suspiria View Post
    I submitted my video to Timur, for the sake of getting typed in Psychosophy too. I should get the results in 7-9 days
    Exciting. I'm more and more tempted to do this...should save my pennies currently, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chin Diaper 007 View Post
    This site is filled with betas and 3E's. Eh.
    It’s really an overloaded Beta world both online and irl. Online mostly have 1E since there’s more emoting than discussion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    why do you say 3E? How do 3Es feel like around 1E?
    3E: when a 1E asks me what I feel about something I'm stumped, kind of surprised and stressed as I have no fucking clue at first, need to think about it and even then I have no idea how to express it outside of 2L aka rationalize or 1F showing it physically. Its often unclear to me why I like something or someone and I may get blindsided be strong emotions I struggle to suppress as I don't like showing how I feel, because I feel it makes me weak, naked and vulnerable. I'm often skeptical of and second guess gut feelings and intuitions, and idk wtf to say about art or mistrust people and their intentions. I also dislike if 1Es unload their strong negative emotions on me or if they whine and show weakness.. often that is unbearable and makes me want to run or I may just blow up on them, start yelling and cut them off, especially if the focus on emotions and how we relate is constant and unending from their side. I'm superficially nice to people at first and worry about expressing myself wrong or in a way that they will dislike.. but that fades once I get to know them better, after which I become more rough.

    The opposite of 1E in every possible way it seems, but with an about equal but stressed focus on emotions. I'm often very good at hiding the often negative internal emotional storm.. I have 0 ideas how to constructively express myself outside of logically breaking it down or breaking stuff.

    This is fairly consistent with being a head type (enneagram type 6), as the head triad is disconnected from these things, especially inner guidance.

    I seem to like violin music and often get this urge to learn to play the violin, this sense that the violin is the best instrument through which to express my emotions seems constant. I bought a training violin..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suspiria View Post
    I submitted my video to Timur, for the sake of getting typed in Psychosophy too. I should get the results in 7-9 days
    Oh hey, I'm trying to do this too. I used the questionnaire he had on his page to make the video and then saw this "NOTE! You will get the most relevant questionnaire automatically on your email after making order. You can see approximate questionnaire on this page, it’s not suitable for typing." But everything was in Russian when I ordered and I didn't get a different English version to use. He hasn't responded to my questions about this. So, did you get a different English version to use, or was it fine using the one he has on his page? Hopefully he'll respond to my question soon, but thought I'd ask here too if you're further along in the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Oh hey, I'm trying to do this too. I used the questionnaire he had on his page to make the video and then saw this "NOTE! You will get the most relevant questionnaire automatically on your email after making order. You can see approximate questionnaire on this page, it’s not suitable for typing." But everything was in Russian when I ordered and I didn't get a different English version to use. He hasn't responded to my questions about this. So, did you get a different English version to use, or was it fine using the one he has on his page? Hopefully he'll respond to my question soon, but thought I'd ask here too if you're further along in the process.
    Hmm, that's odd. The link you get in the email is the same document as the one on his English page (just took a look at them now and compared the two). There doesn't seem to be any changes; they're the same 40 questions + 5 statements that you must comment on.

    My process is at the same stage as when I posted here. I'm waiting for his feedback. Last time he was actually faster (I got my result in 4 or 5 days) but who knows. Since he got in touch with me via dm last time, I sent him the video and proof of payment in a message on VKontakte and that was all.
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    I'm starting to think Psychosophy is the new thing, it's been blowing up fast over the past few years and I've been wondering about this. I don't think it will be a fad, most typologies don't end up that way, but maybe it really is the best way to calculate compatibility.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Suspiria View Post
    Hmm, that's odd. The link you get in the email is the same document as the one on his English page (just took a look at them now and compared the two). There doesn't seem to be any changes; they're the same 40 questions + 5 statements that you must comment on.

    My process is at the same stage as when I posted here. I'm waiting for his feedback. Last time he was actually faster (I got my result in 4 or 5 days) but who knows. Since he got in touch with me via dm last time, I sent him the video and proof of payment in a message on VKontakte and that was all.
    Ok thanks, I wonder what that was about then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vex View Post
    I'm starting to think Psychosophy is the new thing, it's been blowing up fast over the past few years and I've been wondering about this. I don't think it will be a fad, most typologies don't end up that way, but maybe it really is the best way to calculate compatibility.
    I'm curious to see where it will go, too. So far it's helping explain the longevity of some couples/friendships who aren't the greatest ITR in socionics.

    My parents are superego in socionics which is supposedly really bad, but I'm pretty sure they're duals in psychosophy which was a revelation. It's funny because I can see both at work. They don't really understand one another in terms of quadra values--and I wouldn't say they're psychologically intimate--but for superego relations they can live and work together closely surprisingly well. It's interesting to see them "soothe" or unquestioningly defer to the other in certain attitudes.
    Last edited by Emily; 03-30-2021 at 12:51 AM.

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    My personal random thoughts/theories regarding AP/Psychosophy after looking at the author's original site, mainly regarding V and F:



    • 1V has a tendency to see love as poison (Akhmatova literally writes it off as poison in her poetry at least, and even as a child I did the same).
    • If I had to personally correlate my type with enneagram, I would say 4 instead of 3 or 7. 8 makes sense as well.
    • Different combinations of course have different effects on the psyche, 1V with 4F is frail physically but still has a strong spirit that toils through the hardship. F in other placements, such as 2F and 1V, are probably going to be the most withstanding types (along with the most lustful).
    • 1F is not weak, anything but, and I'd say they would be able to withstand quite a lot though it's not their preference to put their bodies through hell. Worth noting that the original author even states that 1F usually has indifference to suffering, blood, and gore surrounding them, so this shouldn't come off as a shock. But as aesthetes and sensualists, this isn't their preference. The author notes that the best soldier is actually Borgia, or FELV, due to the willing to be commanded (4V) and the 1F. Epicurus is much different since they are free men, but I'm getting off topic here.
    • 4V is usually called spineless though that's only in the most extreme cases, and even then I think it's the pitfall of the third function to obsess to the point of any of this usage of V draining energy from the psyche itself. Same goes for L, F, and E, though outside of the psychological drainage their effects on a person differ due to the difference in the functions.
    • A lower placement doesn't mean this person is terrible at it, just that it's not preferred most of the time.
    • Even in the higher placements, it is worth noting that due to accentuation that 1V can be less purposeful than others' V, 1L can be less structured than other L in other people, 1E can be more detrimental to the atmosphere or not as artful, and 1F more crass. This is about preference, and how information is delivered AFAIK (processional vs result). The original author states that there are great artists with 4E, great thinkers with 4L, and so on. Even the first two placements can be pitfalls in their own, if people rely on them too much.


    The most important thing though is that the original author says types can change, though only after a shock has been administered to a person's psyche. Otherwise, a person's type is either inherited by a parent or a distant relative such as a grandparent (inborn), or placed on them through societal or familial expectations (grown). I can personally see it being a combination of both, as parents tend to place similar restrictions and expectations on their children as their own parents would with them, leading to a generational pattern of sorts.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Vex View Post
    My personal random thoughts/theories regarding AP/Psychosophy after looking at the author's original site, mainly regarding V and F:



    • 1V has a tendency to see love as poison (Akhmatova literally writes it off as poison in her poetry at least, and even as a child I did the same).
    • If I had to personally correlate my type with enneagram, I would say 4 instead of 3 or 7. 8 makes sense as well.
    • Different combinations of course have different effects on the psyche, 1V with 4F is frail physically but still has a strong spirit that toils through the hardship. F in other placements, such as 2F and 1V, are probably going to be the most withstanding types (along with the most lustful).
    • 1F is not weak, anything but, and I'd say they would be able to withstand quite a lot though it's not their preference to put their bodies through hell. Worth noting that the original author even states that 1F usually has indifference to suffering, blood, and gore surrounding them, so this shouldn't come off as a shock. But as aesthetes and sensualists, this isn't their preference. The author notes that the best soldier is actually Borgia, or FELV, due to the willing to be commanded (4V) and the 1F. Epicurus is much different since they are free men, but I'm getting off topic here.
    • 4V is usually called spineless though that's only in the most extreme cases, and even then I think it's the pitfall of the third function to obsess to the point of any of this usage of V draining energy from the psyche itself. Same goes for L, F, and E, though outside of the psychological drainage their effects on a person differ due to the difference in the functions.
    • A lower placement doesn't mean this person is terrible at it, just that it's not preferred most of the time.
    • Even in the higher placements, it is worth noting that due to accentuation that 1V can be less purposeful than others' V, 1L can be less structured than other L in other people, 1E can be more detrimental to the atmosphere or not as artful, and 1F more crass. This is about preference, and how information is delivered AFAIK (processional vs result). The original author states that there are great artists with 4E, great thinkers with 4L, and so on. Even the first two placements can be pitfalls in their own, if people rely on them too much.


    The most important thing though is that the original author says types can change, though only after a shock has been administered to a person's psyche. Otherwise, a person's type is either inherited by a parent or a distant relative such as a grandparent (inborn), or placed on them through societal or familial expectations (grown). I can personally see it being a combination of both, as parents tend to place similar restrictions and expectations on their children as their own parents would with them, leading to a generational pattern of sorts.
    I think it is similar probably to enneagram, where you have inborn tendencies that can be influenced by parental style. The bestsocionics page has a theory on how this might work that I thought was interesting: LINK

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    Just got results from Timur and woooo this is exciting because it's so unexpected. He typed me as LIE-VFLE. So, fun stuff now to look at and compare methods, and learn more. (The G-man typed me LSI-D and I'm waiting on the AP results still)



    I will say that I don't think 3L is likely, but it's interesting to see him put F in a higher position (may have to do with how he'd decided that I was NT, so any sensing could mean F or V in his system. Will have to look more closely at this) He simultaneously thought Te was most obvious in me which he relates to objective reality, the natural sciences etc, and saw low E and higher F with Will as highest. Easy to see very different type conclusions from that combination - and fairly easy to see the overlap with G's LSI-D. I'll probably do a full comparison and evaluation for myself at some point, but right now I'm just getting a general sense of the things that both people may have seen and what they attributed it to. Heh heh, a kind of "harmony of the gospels" =P. Looking forward to adding the AP eval in there too
    Last edited by squark; 04-05-2021 at 05:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Just got results from Timur and woooo this is exciting because it's so unexpected. He typed me as LIE-VFLE. So, fun stuff now to look at and compare methods, and learn more. (The G-man typed me LSI-D and I'm waiting on the AP results still)



    I will say that I don't think 3L is likely, but it's interesting to see him put F in a higher position (may have to do with how he'd decided that I was NT, so any sensing could mean F or V in his system. Will have to look more closely at this) He simultaneously thought Te was most obvious in me which he relates to objective reality, the natural sciences etc, and saw low E and higher F with Will as highest. Easy to see very different type conclusions from that combination - and fairly easy to see the overlap with G's LSI-D. I'll probably do a full comparison and evaluation for myself at some point, but right now I'm just getting a general sense of the things that both people may have seen and what they attributed it to. Heh heh, a kind of "harmony of the gospels" =P. Looking forward to adding the AP eval in there too
    Gulenko's dominant subtype for logical types is supposed to have a strengthened extroverted thinking, which might mean that without the DNCH you are a Te/Fi type most probably (?). For what I've seen with @Suspiria and some translated comments on Archetype Center's videos (and I might be wrong in this) a lot of times they both give coincidential typings or typings with similar characteristics. In your case probably both have seen high extraverted thinking and a mixture of Extraverted sensing semantics and psychosophical/behavioral "physics" and "will" as more classically behavioral Se descriptions overlap both with physics (Sensing in average tends to be seen as related to physics) and will (Willpower is generally either associated with will or Se depending on the socionist) (as noted by LSI-D and LIE typings) and the different typings might account for differences in method and theory (modern socionics being type or IM presence in thought process=Sociotype & behavior=psychosophy and humanitarian socionics being the opposite with motivations>subtype>types). Nonetheless this was interesting, I would like you to share your first typing email for comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Just got results from Timur and woooo this is exciting because it's so unexpected. He typed me as LIE-VFLE. So, fun stuff now to look at and compare methods, and learn more. (The G-man typed me LSI-D and I'm waiting on the AP results still)



    I will say that I don't think 3L is likely, but it's interesting to see him put F in a higher position (may have to do with how he'd decided that I was NT, so any sensing could mean F or V in his system. Will have to look more closely at this) He simultaneously thought Te was most obvious in me which he relates to objective reality, the natural sciences etc, and saw low E and higher F with Will as highest. Easy to see very different type conclusions from that combination - and fairly easy to see the overlap with G's LSI-D. I'll probably do a full comparison and evaluation for myself at some point, but right now I'm just getting a general sense of the things that both people may have seen and what they attributed it to. Heh heh, a kind of "harmony of the gospels" =P. Looking forward to adding the AP eval in there too
    Does he give you a report?
    Does he explain how he saw Ne/Ni in you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    Does he give you a report?
    Does he explain how he saw Ne/Ni in you?
    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS
    Nonetheless this was interesting, I would like you to share your first typing email for comparison.
    He gave some explanation, but not a report. He said that he saw Ni in the value of time as a life resource. I can paste what each of them said for comparisons:

    Timur:
    We have finished the analysis of your materials and the results are as follows. You are indeed a bright representative of NT (intuition+logic) group of types, but in accordance to our methodology it is quite obvious that you are logic-intuitive type from Gamma, since you mostly manifest extraverted logic (or black logic — is the logic of the objective world, the logic of natural and applied sciences) + introverted intuition, so our choice was among two types — ILI and LIE. Also we found out that your type is extraverted (due to dominance of logic over intuition, and some other significant attributes), and you are definitely from central quadra (Beta or Gamma) with valued black sensation (and ability to struggle, to overcome difficulties) and white intuition (the value of time as an important life resource), so our result is Logical-Intuitive Extravert «Jack London» or «Pioneer». You will find attached our description of logical types from Gamma. Attached you will also find some brief terms that are used in Modern Socionics.

    People of logic types often think they're introverts or being typed as introverts, because it's difficult for them to understand people, to get new acquaintances - but all these manifestations are connected with weak ethical function, not with introversion. Not very sociable people are typed as introverts in popular psychology and in MBTI as well, while intro-extraversion in socionics have quite different meaning: it’s domination of intoverted or extraverted functions that are reflected in speech (in answers to questions and in descriptions of pictures).

    But one more reason of your possible psychological introversion (but not socionical) is your psychosophic low Emotion (which means little energy for emotional interaction with people). Our psychosophy result on your questionnaire is WPLE (will, physics, logic, emotion) which is also called ‘Napoleon’ in psychosophy. So, your version WLEP was not so far away from what we got.

    I will make a translation of this type profile within a couple of days and send it to you.


    Gulenko:

    Type as intersection of temperament and installation
    In order to determine the socionic type of a person, it is necessary to assess his or her
    temperament and installation. 4 temperaments X 4 installations = 16 types.
    Taking into account that people change over time, it is also necessary to define the
    variant of a particular person's type - one of four (DCNH system).
    Both the installation and the temperament are fairly well expressed in these videos that
    the respondent provided. Let’s start with installation.

    Installation (activity orientation)

    Logic is more than ethics
    X is good at systematizing and making sense of complex information. She loves
    and knows how to learn, she is given to sciences, she likes to conduct research and
    establish reasons. She approaches everything from a logical point of view - she tries to
    find regularities and draw reasonable conclusions.

    Judging by her facial expressions, her smile is rather role-like, that is, consciously
    presented. Emotion rarely grips her to the point of losing self-control. When stopped by
    the police, she prefers to obey the law. She behaves stubbornly only when she is sure
    she is right.

    At the same time, X is not without emotion. She is curious, can be impressed, even
    capable of tears. This is due to her subtype features, which will be discussed below.

    Sensing is more than intuition
    X's ability to take care of her appearance and health, to look neat if she goes out of
    the house is in favor of sensing. X keeps the house clean and can cook. This
    means that she learns well from experience, her knowledge must be proven by practice.
    She received her pilot's license; she was even invited to become an instructor. The
    ability to operate complex machinery is also much better in sensing types than in
    intuitive ones.

    X has a good memory for past events, remembering many details. The introverted
    sensing function S is responsible for this. At the same time, she primarily remembers
    the sequence of events, which implies that her sensing is under the control of her logic
    L.

    In addition, in the video X is collected, her gaze is clear and attentive, not
    distracted. This is the kind of ability that nature gives to the sensory type, not the
    intuitive type.

    The logic with the sensing gives the technical-managerial installation.

    Temperament
    Introversion is more than extraversion
    X prefers an autonomous lifestyle, which inevitably implies limited communication
    and monotony when staying in one place for a long time. This suits introverts better.
    Apparently, her inner world of thoughts and perceptions is much richer than her external
    activity. Her mental energy goes more into mental concentration, for example, deep
    reflection on what she has read, which is typical for introverts.

    X worries and hesitates in front of the camera. She finds that she is much better at
    written communication than she is at verbal communication. This is a common
    definition for introverts. Why, then, does she find it difficult to keep her mouth shut?
    Here again, her sub-typical features show up: X cannot be categorized as a full,
    distant introvert, but falls into the category of more active contact introverts.

    Rationality is more than irrationality
    X's logic determines the sensing. Before he embodies (sensing), he will analyze
    and isolate the main thing (logic). This is how the psyche of rationals is organized.
    Irrationals act more spontaneously and according to the situation rather than
    sequentially and step by step. Rationals are more effective if they prepare in advance
    for an important event, rather than improvising or simply hoping for luck.


    Rationals also have a more stable mood and, as a consequence, an even work
    capacity. This applies to X as well. She has a goal of her own and is consistently
    pursuing it. But excessive rationality has a downside. It makes a person more stubborn
    and less flexible. Therefore, it is a good idea for X to pay attention to her pickiness:
    if it is excessive, it will negatively affect her personal relationships.
    This temperament is called balanced-stable.

    Quadra
    To sum up, X's deep values are competitiveness, persistence in achieving an
    inspiring goal, conviction, the ability to stand up for one's values, the need for romantic
    pursuits, being organized and yet a good sense of humor. These values are lived by the
    types of the romantic-power quadra beta.

    Subtype
    What can we say about her subtype? - The most probable subtype in DCNH system is
    the first one, i.e. dominant (D). Why?

    This is evidenced by her contactness (daring to face danger, a tendency to express her
    opinion and unwillingness to stand aside in controversial situations), as well as
    orderliness in affairs and relationships, supplemented by the desire to bring things to an
    end in the most important matters (terminality).

    Contactness in combination with terminality gives a dominant subtype. That is why it is
    so important for X not to have bosses over her. However, this craving for freedom
    together with curiosity leads me to the conclusion that she has a combined subtype,
    namely the dominant-creative one.

    The conclusion

    So, the type of respondent is a balanced-stable temperament in managerial installation -
    LSI of dominant subtype (Inspector demanding).

    Characteristic features of such a person: firmness, conviction, quick learning, confident
    advancement, organizational skills, the ability to put things in order, stubbornness and
    fastidiousness, but at the same time kindness towards the weaker.


    G was a lot more thorough and gave more reasons in his response. He goes through each dichotomy and then to the subtype. Timur appears to type from club first and looks for elements within what you speak about and how you speak about it. Gulenko explains his approach as gestalt first, followed by analysis, whereas Timur's approach appears to be primarily semantic.

    Even though the videos I gave Gulenko were shorter, I gave more information about myself and what I'm like, the things I do and my interests, whereas I mostly talked to Timur about what I thought, my viewpoints and ideas. So, they are looking for different information. The psychosophy questionnaire filled in some of what was left out in the socionics video I think.

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    Idk E would be my area of confidence... Volition feels flexible? Logic is insecure & unconcerned with Physics. So.. EVLF?

    I am confident at noticing other people's Volition though- but I don't think I am that way much myself.

    Yesss I read more about them and the Tessera sexta ugh I highly dislike people like that for sure. My conflictor looks exactly like this bitch I know IRL that I don't like and she doesn't like me. Those are good drawings.

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    Aww @inumbra and I are Sisters. Makes sense lol =D

    https://www.attitudinalpsyche.com/sh...ations/sister/

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    @squark The thing that surprised me the most about Timur's typing is that he typed you as both LIE and VFLE. I understand there are two seperate systems based on different things. Just to note that, I am still not competent at attitudinal psyche type system yet. However, VFxx or FVxx seems very S. Right now to me it sounds like e7 xSI or e5 ESFx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    @squark The thing that surprised me the most about Timur's typing is that he typed you as both LIE and VFLE. I understand there are two seperate systems based on different things. Just to note that, I am still not competent at attitudinal psyche type system yet. However, VFxx or FVxx seems very S. Right now to me it sounds like e7 xSI or e5 ESFx.
    Taking into account that both G and Timur have seen as probably strongest function extraverted thinking and either high will & physics (Archetype Center) or High extraverted sensing, if wanting to discard the Physics/will interpretation and assign a sensing explanation to that, and again with both experienced socionists seeing Te & phenomena related to F/V or sensing, wouldn't it be more reasonable to assign @squark as LSE rather than ESFx or ISTx?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    Taking into account that both G and Timur have seen as probably strongest function extraverted thinking and either high will & physics (Archetype Center) or High extraverted sensing, if wanting to discard the Physics/will interpretation and assign a sensing explanation to that, and again with both experienced socionists seeing Te & phenomena related to F/V or sensing, wouldn't it be more reasonable to assign @squark as LSE rather than ESFx or ISTx?
    Exactly, that's why I wondered why Timur didn't typed squark as LSE because of that, then I thought he (probably G also) thinks that squark values Se, hence LSE eliminated.

    About G's typing, I am not sure if G thought squark has Te>Ti or vice versa. However, if he typed him as D sub, he probably thinks that Te is apperant or at least has a great effect on her behavior.

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    Timur probably types @squark as LIE because she (didn't knew she was a woman) has probably shown stronger Te, Ne & Se in semantics and has also probably showed to value Te, Ni & Se (Take into account that Archetype center's definition of Extraverted sensing is this https://youtu.be/ooS3KFL8umc ) while seeing first will (oftentimes traits of first will as willpower, suppression of others... are associated to extraverted sensing by socionists) and first physics (physics traits as caring for living conditions or attraction towards physical pleasures are associated with introverted sensing by other more behavioral socionists). Gulenko's results have been shown multiple times on this forum and all they seem to favor subtypes and VI over basic types, for example in this very same case with D sub LSI instead of Te lead or Te creative type. That, coupled with interpreting the same traits as valued strong Se through subtype or first will & valued Se through semantics, and interpreting either strong introverted sensing or second physics also from the same traits, gives two superficially non-concordant typings that looking closer seem to be more concordant and point towards the same traits & tendencies. I think if we want to take away both views and interpret the very same traits from a more classical, behavioral socionics perspective also outside of humanitarian socionics then the only type with strongest and more visible extraverted thinking, 4d extraverted sensing that should be relatively observable ,3d introverted sensing and a little bit of extraverted intuition are ESTjs so from the classical perspective I would consider @squark as LSE while in a more modern cognition=/=behavior perspective I would say LIE

    Also @squark you might be able to ask a couple questions before they stop responding. I tell you because that's specifically what I did until I got too questioning over smaller things and they stopped responding. If you try to ask them for a detailed analysis they'll tell you to do their entire course from start to finish before to understand it.
    Last edited by RBRS; 04-06-2021 at 10:39 AM.

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    I think cognition is not equal to behavior.

    G thinks squark is LSI and Te is behavioural.
    Timur thinks squark is LIE and S is behavioural.

    Both thinks that squark values Se and is rational.

    Explanations regarding demonstrative function and polr would clear things more than differentiating Ti/Te.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    I think cognition is not equal to behavior.

    G thinks squark is LSI and Te is behavioural.
    Timur thinks squark is LIE and S is behavioural.

    Both thinks that squark values Se and is rational.

    Explanations regarding demonstrative function and polr would clear things more than differentiating Ti/Te.
    Both see squark values Se, has most visible & strongest Te (which if we take DCNH out would mean LSI is not possible as they are 3D Te) so the mixed result is either SLE or LSE, and both agreeing on the rationality dichotomy even points more towards LSE if we want to disregard both Timur & Gs views on behaviorism. I still think there's a strong possibility for her to be LIE with high V & F which would make her behaviorally resemble strong S (thus getting to LSI in other models).

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    Both see squark values Se, has most visible & strongest Te (which if we take DCNH out would mean LSI is not possible as they are 3D Te) so the mixed result is either SLE or LSE, and both agreeing on the rationality dichotomy even points more towards LSE if we want to disregard both Timur & Gs views on behaviorism. I still think there's a strong possibility for her to be LIE with high V & F which would make her behaviorally resemble strong S (thus getting to LSI in other models).
    Partially agreed. All LSI, LIE, LSE typings can be valid. I don't think D typing leaves out LSI as VFLE result doesnt rule out LIE. Their explanations of her usage of Ne would make things clear imo. However, both Timur and G didn't write anything about Ne on their reports.

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