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Thread: Attitudinal Psyche type system

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    Hmm. I took the test listed in first post -- some were pretty hard to decide. It gave me VLEF as a result, and that sounds like a decent fit from the short description (not as sure about longer description.) But, as of now, I know pretty much nothing about the system, so have to look into it more before I say anything much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Hmm. I took the test listed in first post -- some were pretty hard to decide. It gave me VLEF as a result, and that sounds like a decent fit from the short description. But, as of now, I know pretty much nothing about the system, so have to look into it more before I say anything much.
    Frddy's recommendation in post #2 is a good source for individual function descriptions and function combinations, too, if you didn't see it already: https://bestsocionics.com/psychosophy/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    @Lolita, could you be Napoleon, the VFLE? The description of "First Will with Third Logic" (under the section "function combinations descriptions): https://bestsocionics.com/psychosoph.../third-logics/

    In addition, Napoleon and Akhmatova also strive to master the knowledge to which they do not have a natural predisposition, for example, a person with a technical mindset seeks to understand psychology, and a humanist - in the exact sciences. 1B3L usually has a very broad outlook, they are distinguished by erudition: sometimes they are mistaken for 2L because of their apparent confidence and freedom in discussion and reflection. But it is worth starting to argue with them, giving convincing arguments, how their self-esteem is traumatized and they strive at all costs to prove their point of view.

    The bolded reminded me of how you said you utilize Ti things in a way most SEEs don't.
    I had thought of that... which sorta scares me since I just don’t think I’m that masterful with the material world since 1P are more concrete with their will than 1V. As I’m writing my answers to the assessment questions, it seems like that’s the most likely result for me at this point

    As I’m thinking and answering you, the song “sowing the seeds of love” plays where they sing “time to eat all your words, swallow your pride, open your eyes...”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    Frddy's recommendation in post #2 is a good source for individual function descriptions and function combinations, too, if you didn't see it already: https://bestsocionics.com/psychosophy/
    Thanks, I've been reading it. The "myths and truths" of 2L made me laugh because I saw myself so much in it. These two parts especially made me laugh
    The Second Logic, as a high and extraverted function, longs to influence others, it wants to "help" you to shape your point of view. 2L can simply explain so that you understand the issue better and become wiser (from her point of view)

    Since 2Ls easily juggle arguments and justify any point of view, they can also abuse this gift of theirs. For example, already realizing that you made a mistake, continue to stand your ground, resorting to logical methods that allow you to create the impression that you are right. The Second Logicians are more focused on something to convey to someone than to figure out their knowledge and get to the bottom of the truth, therefore they can very confidently defend deliberately false views.
    I've made the mistake of admitting the second part to someone before, and from then on they doubted everything I said. Whoops. I actively try not to do this, and stop myself when I start though. Sometimes though, yeah, sometimes I just get caught up in the argument and lose the truth along the way.

    3E seems right to me, and the overall description of VLEF "Socrates" also seems to fit, with this paragraph fitting a little too well
    The democracy of the Second Logic is not clearly manifested in Socrates. In most cases, he considers his opinion to be the only correct one and seeks to open the eyes of others to the "truth." But this does not prevent him from processing according to the Logic. For VLEF, the expression “make you think” is very appropriate. He seeks to awaken thought and intellectual abilities in every person, which is why the teaching profession is very suitable for this type.
    People have commented on this in me more than a few times. And I find myself often trying to lead people to the answer I want them to arrive at. First will and 3E combo description also rang true for me.

    One thing that seemed somewhat off was 4F as while I don't care about food or comforts and whatnot I was actively involved in sports when younger, and enjoy physical activity, and I want to be strong and healthy. So, that isn't completely neglected in me. Also the part in 1V "myths and truths" that says they do not feel guilty about their mistakes - well, I do. I looked at other types and compared, but came back in the end to VLEF as the best overall fit.

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    The guy from the Asura Psyche channel on YouTube tested as VLEF from the Attitudinal Psyche website if you want an example of what that looks like. He's INTJ in MBTI. I don't think he's done a deep dive into the psychosophy system, but VLEF does seem to fit him pretty well. He clearly likes to lecture and teach.

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I've made the mistake of admitting the second part to someone before, and from then on they doubted everything I said. Whoops. I actively try not to do this, and stop myself when I start though. Sometimes though, yeah, sometimes I just get caught up in the argument and lose the truth along the way.
    I think I'm 3L, and will feel slightly alarmed if I don't think I know the answer or if I don't feel we've landed on the absolute truth. 2L can help me calm down mentally and not lose sleep because they almost treat it like a game, although that has its downsides as well. In some of our interactions the 2L person almost started to feel a sense of responsibility towards me, like to reassure me and not tease me too much. Still not above toying with someone's brain, though, and others like 1L were fair game to their trolling

    One thing that seemed somewhat off was 4F as while I don't care about food or comforts and whatnot I was actively involved in sports when younger, and enjoy physical activity, and I want to be strong and healthy. So, that isn't completely neglected in me. Also the part in 1V "myths and truths" that says they do not feel guilty about their mistakes - well, I do. I looked at other types and compared, but came back in the end to VLEF as the best overall fit.
    There's a section on that website about Accentuations that details how 4F can differ depending on the person. I relate to you somewhat. Adulthood and having higher Volition probably also help naturally care for Physics more if you have the desire. You can make it into a goal for yourself and have follow-through.

    Having 3E could be what gives you guilt over mistakes if it involves hurting other people or relationships, maybe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    The guy from the Asura Psyche channel on YouTube tested as VLEF from the Attitudinal Psyche website if you want an example of what that looks like. He's INTJ in MBTI. I don't think he's done a deep dive into the psychosophy system, but VLEF does seem to fit him pretty well. He clearly likes to lecture and teach.
    Thanks, I'll take a look later. I most often type as INTJ in MBTI also, so should be an interesting comparison.



    I think I'm 3L, and will feel slightly alarmed if I don't think I know the answer or if I don't feel we've landed on the absolute truth. 2L can help me calm down mentally and not lose sleep because they almost treat it like a game, although that has its downsides as well. In some of our interactions the 2L person almost started to feel a sense of responsibility towards me, like to reassure me and not tease me too much. Still not above toying with someone's brain, though, and others like 1L were fair game to their trolling



    There's a section on that website about Accentuations that details how 4F can differ depending on the person. I relate to you somewhat. Adulthood and having higher Volition probably also help naturally care for Physics more if you have the desire. You can make it into a goal for yourself and have follow-through.

    Having 3E could be what gives you guilt over mistakes if it involves hurting other people or relationships, maybe.
    Right, that makes sense, I'll look more into that also. =) This has been helpful!

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    I think this guy is 3E mb (LVEF) [also supervisor of LSI]


    This guy seems ILE but totally not LVEF. Sounds bit like 3F.
    Last edited by BrightDemonSheep96; 03-02-2021 at 04:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chin Diaper 007 View Post
    I think this guy is 3E mb (LVEF) [also supervisor of LSI]


    This guy seems ILE but totally not LVEF. Sounds bit like 3F.
    Eric does type himself as NeTi/ENTp but he has criticisms regarding socionics. He has his own system.
    3E checks out - he's very sensitive to criticisms and prone to outbursts in his channel. Nevertheless he's the most insightful guy around when it comes to MBTI and typology for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chin Diaper 007 View Post
    I think this guy is 3E mb (LVEF) [also supervisor of LSI]


    This guy seems ILE but totally not LVEF. Sounds bit like 3F.
    LVEF seems spot on for Eric, yes.

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    I just submitted my answers to Rob so Ill get my results a week from now!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chin Diaper 007 View Post
    I think this guy is 3E mb (LVEF) [also supervisor of LSI]


    This guy seems ILE but totally not LVEF. Sounds bit like 3F.
    Hmm, now I'm wondering if maybe something else is responsible for the outbursts with Eric. Maybe even 3V, like "don't tread on me." I've seen him express jealousy, too, over others who seem to be doing well building their channels. My understanding so far of 3V is that it can be sort of undermining of others' success (not sure if I'm understanding that correctly, though).

    It seems like 3E people actually avoid emotional displays or expressing emotion unless prodded beyond endurance. But maybe it depends on other aspects of your personality, like introversion/extraversion?

    Does he encourage others to express emotion freely? That could mean 2E or 4E. I haven't seen enough of his videos to decide. Maybe 4E since his own expressions are kind of in the child stage, like a storm that passes quickly through. I'm wondering if he could be 3V 4E... (or 2E 3V)
    Last edited by Emily; 03-05-2021 at 02:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolita View Post
    I just submitted my answers to Rob so I’ll get my results a week from now!!
    I have a question. Is it important to you to have official verification? What would happen if you looked things up and decided a type for yourself, would it be less valid in your mind than whatever results he tells you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I have a question. Is it important to you to have official verification? What would happen if you looked things up and decided a type for yourself, would it be less valid in your mind than whatever results he tells you?
    for me it gives a kind of psychological security like a hardtop in a coupe. (even tho the difference between a hard-top and soft top is minor)

    I think I'm LFVE, Rob said he'll send my results today O.O we'll see how well I got it right hehe. I would have donated anyway to support his efforts after I saw how well he updated the website.

    Funny enough enneagram type 6 neatly explains why I have this need for external credible authority:

    Sixes are also loyal to ideas, systems, and beliefs—even to the belief that all ideas or authorities should be questioned or defied. Indeed, not all Sixes go along with the “status quo”: their beliefs may be rebellious and anti-authoritarian, even revolutionary. In any case, they will typically fight for their beliefs more fiercely than they will fight for themselves, and they will defend their community or family more tenaciously than they will defend themselves.

    The reason Sixes are so loyal to others is that they do not want to be abandoned and left without support—their Basic Fear. Thus, the central issue for type Six is a failure of self-confidence. Sixes come to believe that they do not possess the internal resources to handle life’s challenges and vagaries alone, and so increasingly rely on structures, allies, beliefs, and supports outside themselves for guidance to survive. If suitable structures do not exist, they will help create and maintain them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    Hmm, now I'm wondering if maybe something else is responsible for the outbursts with Eric. Maybe even 3V, like "don't tread on me." I've seen him express jealousy, too, over others who seem to be doing well building their channels. My understanding so far of 3V is that it can be sort of undermining of others' success (not sure if I'm understanding that correctly, though).

    It seems like 3E people actually avoid emotional displays or expressing emotion unless prodded beyond endurance. But maybe it depends on other aspects of your personality, like introversion/extraversion?

    Does he encourage others to express emotion freely? That could mean 2E or 4E. I haven't seen enough of his videos to decide. Maybe 4E since his own expressions are kind of in the child stage, like a storm that passes quickly through. I'm wondering if he could be 3V 4E... (or 2E 3V)
    hmm, I seem to be internally unaware emotionally to the point sometimes emotions blindside me or I don't seem to understand the root emotional cause for certain things and have to retrace logically WHY I'm having certain reactions. Sometimes I confuse body sensations for emotion :/. Consequently I dislike expressing emotion as it makes me vulnerable. Not even to my own mother can I express emotion, even tho my parents are very liberal and always encouraged me to express my feelings / supported me any way they could. I don;t get it, I think I can say anything to my parents, yet emotionally I'm inhibited and struggle. IF prodded to explain internal emotions and stuff I kinda struggle hard. An EIE once prodded me with this and I had a hard time. <== this is supposed to be typical for a type 6 as we are internally disconnected, no internal guidance, internal confusion exists instead. Its like trying to navigate a maze blindly. Only very strong emotions seem to be clear.

    I'm also very "Idk wtf I want, but I sure as hell will not bend the knee to anyone!"

    e_e logic is also very speculative, like to devil's advocate and discuss, there is always anxiety that I may be wrong, but I often steamroll other people's logic and think they are wrong unless they show credible expertise.

    I did help my parents by paying off their debt, encouraging them to save and invest, to then go through with renovation plans and I often give financial advice or advice about what product to buy, how to check for quality, to not buy cheap, give advice and research on health related topics, aesthetics, what car to get, how to build one's computer, photography gear... it all sounds very 2F.
    Last edited by SGF; 03-05-2021 at 04:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I think I'm LFVE, Rob said he'll send my results today O.O we'll see how well I got it right hehe. I would have donated anyway to support his efforts after I saw how well he updated the website.
    Cool. Did he just revamp some of the type descriptions? I appreciated his work with type compatibility since I haven't seen that anywhere else. While I haven't done a deep dive in that section of the site, it looked really interesting.

    I did help my parents by paying off their debt, encouraging them to save and invest, to then go through with renovation plans and I often give financial advice or advice about what product to buy, how to check for quality, to not buy cheap, give advice and research on health related topics, aesthetics, what car to get, how to build one's computer, photography gear... it all sounds very 2F.
    Yes it does. Cool of you to help your folks. As I think of people I know, the ones I suspect are 2F are very generous and oriented to acts of service, each in a way unique to their sociotype.

    My ESE cousin, for example, insists on hosting Christmas every year. Whether she loves doing it or not, she does it, and works hard for everyone to be in a good mood the entire time. 2F combined with that Alpha Fe.

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    hmm, I seem to be internally unaware emotionally to the point sometimes emotions blindside me or I don't seem to understand the root emotional cause for certain things and have to retrace logically WHY I'm having certain reactions. Sometimes I confuse body sensations for emotion :/. Consequently I dislike expressing emotion as it makes me vulnerable. Not even to my own mother can I express emotion, even tho my parents are very liberal and always encouraged me to express my feelings / supported me any way they could. I don;t get it, I think I can say anything to my parents, yet emotionally I'm inhibited and struggle. IF prodded to explain internal emotions and stuff I kinda struggle hard. An EIE once prodded me with this and I had a hard time. <== this is supposed to be typical for a type 6 as we are internally disconnected, no internal guidance, internal confusion exists instead. Its like trying to navigate a maze blindly. Only very strong emotions seem to be clear.
    I relate to a lot of that as well, even though I'm type 1. It takes me a long time and a lot of trial and error to figure out what I'm feeling and why to the point that I can even begin putting it in words. I've sometimes come up with different stories/reasons for it that seemed like they could be true until something finally made sense as the real reason. On the other hand, I also will have spontaneous reactions to stuff, like getting choked up and teary when talking about something inspirational or sad, or even reading something like that out loud. It's embarrassing and I don't have much control over it.

    for me it gives a kind of psychological security like a hardtop in a coupe. . .e_e logic is also very speculative, like to devil's advocate and discuss, there is always anxiety that I may be wrong, but I often steamroll other people's logic and think they are wrong unless they show credible expertise.
    hm, ok. I'm curious if Lolita has a similar feeling as you do regarding authority, and how/if this is related at all to logic position.

    For me, I'm interested in other people's opinions out of curiosity, but I trust myself more. I can be persuaded by good reasons though. If someone lays out an argument, I'm willing to listen and change my mind. I remain the final judge on whether it's a good argument or not though heh and poor reasoning won't convince me. It doesn't matter what credentials a person has for me if they have a shoddy argument, nor what credentials they lack if they have a good one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    Hmm, now I'm wondering if maybe something else is responsible for the outbursts with Eric. Maybe even 3V, like "don't tread on me." I've seen him express jealousy, too, over others who seem to be doing well building their channels. My understanding so far of 3V is that it can be sort of undermining of others' success (not sure if I'm understanding that correctly, though).

    It seems like 3E people actually avoid emotional displays or expressing emotion unless prodded beyond endurance. But maybe it depends on other aspects of your personality, like introversion/extraversion?

    Does he encourage others to express emotion freely? That could mean 2E or 4E. I haven't seen enough of his videos to decide. Maybe 4E since his own expressions are kind of in the child stage, like a storm that passes quickly through. I'm wondering if he could be 3V 4E... (or 2E 3V)
    I can say that my goals seem attainable if I apply effort which can be hard. I tend to work slowly when I have figured out grand scheme of things. So yeah. I just kind of look it like envy and sometimes I just think they conform to the hype of success.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chin Diaper 007 View Post
    I can say that my goals seem attainable if I apply effort which can be hard. I tend to work slowly when I have figured out grand scheme of things. So yeah. I just kind of look it like envy and sometimes I just think they conform to the hype of success.
    Maybe envy would depend on things like enneagram. "Devalue" is probably still the best word for the 3rd position.

    So an enneagram 4 might really envy others' achievements, while a 6 might doubt it could be done. "Oh okay you have these lofty goals, but I can poke holes in those dreams!" I think my good friend is 3V and a Nine, and she has more of the attitude you mentioned..."grand scheme" and goals seem like a lot of work (and she's fuzzy on what she wants a lot of the time), yet she gets a bit stressed or easily guilted if she feels she's not doing anything. And she HATES to be pushed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    Maybe envy would depend on things like enneagram. "Devalue" is probably still the best word for the 3rd position.

    So an enneagram 4 might really envy others' achievements, while a 6 might doubt it could be done. "Oh okay you have these lofty goals, but I can poke holes in those dreams!" I think my good friend is 3V and a Nine, and she has more of the attitude you mentioned..."grand scheme" and goals seem like a lot of work (and she's fuzzy on what she wants a lot of the time), yet she gets a bit stressed or easily guilted if she feels she's not doing anything. And she HATES to be pushed.
    Not the achievement per se. It is about the constant stamina.
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    when my boss at work gives me an order as if I were beneath her.. my reaction is rage with an urge to smash her skull against the wall right there, similar situation with the sales and economic director. I have to control that urge and temper my anger due to being under contract which ends up being just an argument for which I get reprimanded or at worst me smashing something or punching a hole in the wall.

    Outside of work this can escalate to threats of violence or violence.

    .. I may need anger management. Its kinda weird tho the only 2 things that set me off are this and people being whiny and having a victim mentality otherwise pretty chill and easy going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    So that is 3rd will, hm. I remember once telling my mom that someone else was rather bossy. She said, "You don't do well with bossy people, no, that's not true, you actually do really well with them. You listen politely, and then you just do whatever you wanted to do anyway." She's kind of right. I don't like people who are bossy, but I just turn them down and go about doing what I planned to do.

    One area that I am overaccomodating in however, which makes me feel rather weak and pathetic since I don't stand up for myself, is that I will allow others to override my own tastes. For example, I was getting new shingles, and they didn't have the color in stock I asked for, so I took the ones that were available and made do. I'll take something that isn't what I wanted or asked for as far as food goes and I'm not too bothered by it. I'll wait excruciatingly long wait times without complaining. I just adjust. And it feels like a contradiction, because I'm assertive in so many other ways. But there is a lot that I just adjust to other people for, and I usually don't even try to push against it. I just let people do what they want. And I was thinking about this, and started wondering if I was crazy to believe I was 1V, and maybe I'm actually weak in it -- but started looking at what all these things had in common, and how it contradicts my general nature otherwise, and I think 4F starts making more sense than it originally did.
    I was thinking this sounds 4F as I read through it, and there you said it right at the end. I've found in the presence of a 1F person, especially if they are Sensing dominant, I just sort of go along with whatever they want in that department. Like I'll adjust my voice volume, walking pace, etc., to a 1F Si person, and with a 1F Se person it's rather easy for them to "direct" me physically. But yeah, I think the key is looking at what are of life you find yourself adjusting to others.

    It seems like 1V 4F people aren't that forceful in the "real world," it's more like "don't tell me what I'm doing with my life and what I want because I've got it figured out, thanks." But I still struggle with nailing down where Volition fits for me, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    I was thinking this sounds 4F as I read through it, and there you said it right at the end. I've found in the presence of a 1F person, especially if they are Sensing dominant, I just sort of go along with whatever they want in that department. Like I'll adjust my voice volume, walking pace, etc., to a 1F Si person, and with a 1F Se person it's rather easy for them to "direct" me physically. But yeah, I think the key is looking at what are of life you find yourself adjusting to others.

    It seems like 1V 4F people aren't that forceful in the "real world," it's more like "don't tell me what I'm doing with my life and what I want because I've got it figured out, thanks." But I still struggle with nailing down where Volition fits for me, too.
    I accidentally deleted my post thinking I'd double-posted, but all of this is interesting and I agree with the way you phrased that. Old results of mine from the HEXACO test also highlight some relevant things I noticed that directly relate to Psyce type. Other people might find it interesting to take that test too if you haven't before, and see different things it brings up. LINK to test and HEXACO discussion thread.

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    Article on Will vs Physics: LINK

    This suggests that all choices regardless of the nature of the choice are will. I don't have any problem making choices but some things don't matter all that much and can be overridden. You ask for a Pepsi and all they have is Coke, it's no big deal to have a Coke instead. I can't imagine being so tied to that decision that you'd refuse to change it. You choose a color to paint your walls, but find a shade that's a little different but might work better, why not change to that one? The example story they gave regarding the meat, I'd easily say, "Yeah, grab that one, it'll work" and not have a problem with telling someone that. But if something doesn't work for some reason, it's also not hard to pick something else as a replacement.

    I wonder just how stubborn the 1st is, for all of them. I was also looking at 1L and it talks about how they don't want to change their beliefs, and need stability in their opinions. To what degree? My thought is, since so many people seem to have trouble identifying which is 1st, and which is 2nd in themselves, that there's at least some degree of flexibility in the 1st as well. How much flexibility?

    I'd guess that minor decisions or opinions (or emotions or needs for the other two) would have less weight, and most people would be able to let go of those even in the 1st position. Is there anyone that finds themselves being super-stubborn in any of these categories to the point that you can't let any issue slide? Is there a 1F that is going to rob a convenience store for a doughnut or something if they're mildly hungry It's almost a question of, are they slaves or masters of the first?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I will take the questionnaire, its just 30$ https://www.attitudinalpsyche.com/
    Results soon.

    Answering it here to fill out later today when I guy the thing, will EDIT this a few times:

    1. Describe a time when you used your own reasoning and analytical skills to learn a new idea or system. How do you know the method(s) you chose were ideal? If you don't know, what hurdles do you think keep you from understanding this knowledge? Can you imagine how your insight has aided in further research related to the idea or system? Expand as much as needed.

    As with most things IF I am uninterested in the subject I will most likely procrastinate and fail to acquire the necessary knowledge even if I try to push myself. If I'm interested however, it means I will take almost every opportunity to "dabble" and "play" in a flow state with the idea or system and no hurdle is big enough to overcome eventually by sheer attrition until I understand it. I prefer to be hands on, in the process and learn best by understanding how everything connects into a wider system. Why? Because its fun. For this reason I enjoy talking about my interests with others, debating certain aspects. I enjoy feedback from other people amd need to know their thoughts, to compare and contrast them to mine. While I may seem like I'm confident in my understanding of things, and may dismiss other people's ideas or argue against them or just devil's advocate, the reality is that I doubt myself quite a lot & feedback is something I rely on and consequently value. It is one thing to casually enjoy a lively discussion with another layman and another thing to argue with someone who has in depth knowledge about his/her own field. Just reading reference material and thinking for myself isn't enough. It is how I go about learning socionics for example, but its not limited to that. For deep insight and advancement one would have to reach mastery in a given field and this hasn't happened to me yet, so I haven't contributed to advancements or research. I'm also not academically inclined at all and more at home with pragmatic applied knowledge or "realistic" Holland code cluster "R". Despite this I sometimes dabble in more abstract areas of interest, which is how I found socionics, proceeded to read reference material, look up examples, try to figure myself out and argue with other people possibly for months on obscure forums and video-chat going through sources of information which ranged from dubious to more legitimate as well as asking a specialist in the field to see what he thought about my own personality. The overall picture is still incomplete as I proceed from details to the whole, but I'm confident of my level of knowledge, less so in experience. Regardless it is highly interesting and that keeps fueling my desire to know more.

    2. Describe a time when you exchanged reasoning and analysis with another person to learn a new idea or system. How do you respond to someone who criticizes your knowledge while asserting their own? How do you decide which sources of information are best? Do you believe that most people have better reasoning skills than you? Why or why not?

    As stated in the previous question I enjoy arguing with people. Even if I'm wrong about something I can only gain / learn from it, plus it is fun and I do this regularly and other people may have information that is unknown to me. If someone criticizes my knowledge I will argue back and they will need to prove to me that I'm not understanding something correctly or that I have false information. This doesn't mean that I'm confident in my knowledge, far from it, I doubt myself a lot, but I doubt them as well. I will learn from the process regardless of me or them being right in the end. As far as information sources go, imo proven reliable authorities in their own areas of expertise are the best.. BUT it doesn't mean that they know absolutely everything, which makes all sources valuable, more or less. I seem to think a lot of ppl have worse reasoning skills then me, but I often doubt myself and it is reasonable to assume that there are many ppl with vastly better reasoning skills than me. To think I am always right would be idiotic. By default I defer to the knowledge of an expert, especially if I haven't fully understood something, but may eventually start arguing once I do understand. Imo this is just common sense or being realistic.


    3. Talk about a time you set and achieved a goal. How much energy did you put into the entire process? How does this achievement enhance or demonstrate your willpower? Did you feel inspired by the challenge to complete the goal? Did this accomplishment display a part of your identity? If so, what is it? If that's difficult to answer, why do you think that is?

    Hmm.. I seem to either downplay my achievements in my mind or do not consider them a big deal? I'm not sure. One example would be acing my driver's exam on the first try even tho I'm not fond of driving and only really did it, because it was a general social expectation. Its common for me to do things out of obligation rather than me actually wanting to, but when it is about something I do want I tend to be relentless, stubborn and addicted. I often have no idea what I want tho. Other similar example would be getting Cambridge certifications for English and Goethe Institute certs for German as both are foreign languages to me. I'm not sure if they were worth doing, at the time it seemed like they would be worth doing. I'm just generally proud of how easily I seem to learn foreign languages to almost native lvl. I can't say I actually struggled either or how much effort these things involved.. imo I slacked off and probably could have put in more effort, but its hard for me to put effort into things I'm not super interested in and when it comes to things I'm interested in, I get lost in the process and lose track of the effort I expend. Sometimes I realize I have been up all night learning about something or doing something I'm into, time just flew by and I forgot to sleep. I don't really do achievement hunting and idk what all this says about me tbh.

    4. Talk about a time you set and achieved a goal with another person. How much energy did you put into the process of collaborating with them? Did you gain inspiration by the collective effort to complete the goal? How do you respond to someone asserting their opinion on what you should be responsible for? Is your character easy for others to see? When people have an opinion about your character, do you take it seriously? Why or why not?

    Most recent thing I can remember was a joint project with my father, we built this rather large brick-grill at the family home. Its for family reunions and grill parties. I don't know how much energy it required, but it took us days and we argued a lot about how exactly it should be done, I tore down part of it, because I was sure it wouldn't support the necessary load and rebuilt it myself lol. My father imo would have built it wrong, so I argued with him, disagreed and ended up rebuilding part of the structure myself. It was fun and we are proud of the result, not sure what you mean by inspiration tho. I don't respond well to people asserting their opinions about what I should be responsible for and I don't like to be told what to do tbh. It makes me angry and I aggressively push back. I also respond really badly, as in with aggression to coercion. Yeah I think my character is easy to see, its my experience that other people's observations about me tend to be often true even if at first I disagree with them.

    5. Tell us about a specific time that you vocalized or expressed a deep feeling or emotion. How did you decide which emotion was relevant to your personal values? Can you imagine how you might turn this experience into a chance to create art, stories or music? How might you do that? If this is difficult, explain what barriers hold you back from imagining this. Expand as much as necessary.

    I.. have a hard time expressing emotions even to someone like my mother. The only exceptions seem to have been girlfriends, love, or if I get really angry or sad and can't contain the outburst. I'd say I'm inhibited in this regard, sometimes ashamed or it feels weak and I want to hide my emotional attitudes. I'd rather grit my teeth and run to the toilet than to burst out crying in front of anyone including my own family. Regardless at my uncle's funeral I thought I had no feelings for him until I saw him in the coffin. I got blindsided by the most terrifying relentless sobbing I have ever experienced. It was more of a relief tho when I thought about it in hindsight as it confirmed to me that I cared about him.. so I wasn't, surprisingly, ashamed of that. I may also explode when really angry and smash things, happens very rarely tho. Normally I'm rather self contained and inhibited and put on a friendly mask. I don't think one can decide what emotions are relevant, I mean they have a life of their own it seems, like forces of nature. Unsure how they relate to my values or how to go about explaining that. I'm not really interested in turning my emotions into art, so I'd say disinterest prevents me. Come to think about it, I never considered doing this, but now that I did.. I have some ideas as to how I can turn emotions into art. Seems to be visual ideas tho, painting / photography. Interesting.

    6. Tell us about a time that someone expressed their deep feelings or emotions to you. Did you encourage or accept these expressions? Do you ever consider the appropriateness of those emotions? Do you think about the value of culture, art and music often? If so, where do you draw the line between what’s good or bad? If you disagree with the notion of "good or bad art, culture or music" please explain further.

    Weird, not much comes to mind tbh, do I take other people's feelings for granted or do ppl around me not really express emotions that freely? Not sure. Answering these questions seems to prove difficult. I remember people doing things for me to express their feelings, example when my girlfriend at the time got into book-binding and as a token of her affection restored my favorite book, which was in tatters. Aren't all emotions appropriate? They exist for a reason. I'm often ashamed of mine however and the highly negative emotions of other people are difficult to tolerate. While preference in art and culture is subjective imo it can be argued that certain attitudes and expressions are detrimental to the overall healthy functioning of society. This seems to be the case for example nowadays where a lot of nihilism and vulgarity is on display. It seems to mirror the social rot and illness, growing like a fungus. "Disgusting" is probably the most appropriate word.

    7. Describe a time or situation where you managed your resources to fit your needs. Did you do so to keep yourself comfortable, or were there other reasons? What drives you to avoid discomfort if so? Do you believe you're highly skilled at organizing your environment? What resources do you consider a necessity to keep in your surroundings? If this is difficult to answer, why do you think that is? Explain further as much as needed.

    Well ever since I started working I have been managing my resources and partially the resources of my parents as well tbh or more precisely I advised them on how to get out of debt, starting with me paying off my mother's debts and they managed to save up enough for renovating the family home combined with a bit of financial help from me, which I consider as only a small repayment for them raising me. Comfort for me I guess means being financially secure. Physical comfort isn't that important tbh. I do weird stuff such as sleeping on the floor for 3 years out of simple curiosity as it is said its healthy or taking ice showers because it is said they improve willpower and health or water-fasting for 7 days, because it is said one achieves mental clarity, so curiosity. Mind you I could not return to a soft bed afterwards and had to get the hardest bed I could find lol. I'm disorganized and my living space while clean tends to be chaotic. It gets progressively more chaotic depending on my mood, a reflection of my state of mind. I'm rather minimalist and can get by on little tbh, so I don't own much stuff, hard to say exactly what resources I like to keep around, I guess electricity, internet, water, food, housing, simple clothes without branding, my car. To be honest I kind of find normal living surroundings to be boring and I want to transform mine into this "fey-wild" enchanted place using automation, lighting and so on. Good aesthetics are important. The real world often seems dull.

    8. Describe a time or situation where someone else managed your resources. Did you trust them? Why or why not? How do you respond to advice regarding your personal needs, space and comfort? Are the opinions of others regarding money important to you? What is your response to those who are interested in your personal tastes, aesthetic preferences, and belongings? Do you discuss or share them freely? Why or why not?

    I guess this would be my parents when I was a kid. Ofc I trusted them. As an adult I haven't been in any situation where someone else would manage my resources and I wouldn't trust anyone else with that anyway as that sort of thing would be me relinquishing control to someone else and that is never going to happen. I like to be in control of my time and material resources, energy and so on. I'm always open to other people's suggestions and advice regarding my needs, space or comfort as long as they do not try to impose these on me and I can refuse if I disagree or know better. I often give other people such advice as well even if unsolicited. I follow certain people who are proven to be financial experts and know what they are talking about when it comes to money since schools do not teach people how to do personal finance, to save and invest or manage assets and liabilities.. so naturally I care about money. I like to freely discuss personal tastes, aesthetics, preferences .. but don't touch or break my stuff. Its fun, plus people often have interesting ideas and info.
    RESULTS for the above. I was thinking something similar with F & L being either 1 or 2 and V - E being 3 or 4. Given how ILE-ish I seem I think 2L makes a lot of sense. Considering E being my sore spot, it makes sense that its 3E. Between V & F tho, F has always been the one thing I rarely if ever doubt oddly enough while V seems volatile. Overall imo FLEV makes a lot of sense. I won't be posting the full analysis as it contains my full name.


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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    RESULTS for the above. I was thinking something similar with F & L being either 1 or 2 and V - E being 3 or 4. Given how ILE-ish I seem I think 2L makes a lot of sense. Considering E being my sore spot, it makes sense that its 3E. Between V & F tho, F has always been the one thing I rarely if ever doubt oddly enough while V seems volatile. Overall imo FLEV makes a lot of sense. I won't be posting the full analysis as it contains my full name.

    https://i.imgur.com/3Dgq6WX.png
    Was expecting you to be FxEx (Probably high logic) since the start, but refrained from telling you because it could be too personal. Third emotion could be guessed from the fact that you express despising first emotion people (In fact, you have repeatedly confused EIE with first emotion when you say that you would hate dealing with them). That, coupled with the fact that you are usually a chill person but oftentimes deal with annoyance or emotional problems through violent behavior suggest first physics. The results are probably right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post

    Nice, it makes sense to me, too. FLxx is what I was leaning towards looking at your overall posts, but wasn't sure how to tell if E or V was more of a sore spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I'd guess that minor decisions or opinions (or emotions or needs for the other two) would have less weight, and most people would be able to let go of those even in the 1st position. Is there anyone that finds themselves being super-stubborn in any of these categories to the point that you can't let any issue slide? Is there a 1F that is going to rob a convenience store for a doughnut or something if they're mildly hungry It's almost a question of, are they slaves or masters of the first?
    Lol, excellent questions *waits for a 1F person to chime in* Whether you're a slave or not depends on maturity/character, I think. There are tendencies towards both.

    On the one hand, the first function is kind of who you are so to "give in" in this area might feel like self betrayal. I guess that's where the other functions help...you can be more open-minded through the 2nd and learn how to shape your first. Similar to how developing your auxiliary function in socionics makes you more well rounded, less narrow and unbending.

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    I should probably be calling them "attitudes" instead of functions. I'm so used to socionics.

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    My most likely is elfv but I don’t really feel that insecurity around 3F
    nothing else fits as well
    Last edited by asd; 03-08-2021 at 12:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frddy View Post
    Was expecting you to be FxEx (Probably high logic) since the start, but refrained from telling you because it could be too personal. Third emotion could be guessed from the fact that you express despising first emotion people (In fact, you have repeatedly confused EIE with first emotion when you say that you would hate dealing with them). That, coupled with the fact that you are usually a chill person but oftentimes deal with annoyance or emotional problems through violent behavior suggest first physics. The results are probably right.
    Yeah.. wtf. That makes sense. Well the EIE I met was 1E imo. She even said she doesn't really care about the emotional atmosphere or managing that, mainly just about freely expressing her own emotions positive and negative was also bugging me about mine and I didn't know wtf to answer tbh. She complained that I'm not very "accessible" in this regard.. lol when I got annoyed with her, the approach was also: Well I don't really care that you are annoyed lol.

    e_e stuff like this is why I suspected she may have been some NT tbh or Fi type.. too good Ti and Ni to be low dimensional... but ultimately she did seem EIE-Ni (H or N sub) and ELFV. EDIT: hmm yeah funny we mainly connected through 2L...weird.
    Last edited by SGF; 03-08-2021 at 06:46 AM.

  30. #110
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    It's an interesting system. I'm VLFE.

    tip : to those who plays with systems, don't correlate again. leave this fu.ck.ing correlation behind.

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    lol what a grumpy image to represent FLEV



    Sexta 5 kinda does seem like..

    LII - ESE (VLEF - FELV)
    LSI - EIE (FLEV - VELF)

    .. at least as far as stereotypes go.



    Russian translated description from psychosophy:


    PLEW
    1P

    You are pragmatic and materialistic person. You are certain in your moves, you are active in life situations. You believe, it's possible to achieve everything working hardly. You are not interested in far perspectives generally, especially if you doubt it can be realized. You are a high efficient person and you go to your purposes solidly. You are able to do many deals at the same time. Also you prefer to have a rest very actively as well as you work. You like to feel that you are stronger and more adapted than others.
    2L

    You are fast and flexible in thinking. On one hand you like building theories, reasoning, learning new things. On the other one you like sharing your ideas and knowledge with friends and other people around. You are not scared by complicated and confused ideas, on the contrary. Though you learn quickly, sometimes you forget quickly as well, if these things are useless for you. People around find you a good teller, they are never bored with you. In talking you have a subconscious habit to intrigue people and after that to reveal with an interesting and clear answer. You hate people who are not able neither to reason nor to listen.
    3E

    You are an emotional person very much, you are sensitive and vulnerable. It makes you try to be closed from people around. You don't have many people whom you trust. Towards emotions you value attentiveness, sense of tact, deepness and sincerity. You are able to notice emotional lie and selfishness immediately - it pushes you away. You understand animals well, they like you. Other people find you as a person who is always ready to listen to, to understand, to yield sensibly.

    4W

    You are a soft and tolerate person. You are able to forgive people if they repent, even after serious mistakes. It's difficult to refuse to people for you, and people around can make a profit from it. But on the other hand you are always ready to defend your friends and relatives, you defend them more stronger than yourself. You are able to be a true companion for people whom you love and value. As for self-organization, perhaps you do everything at the last moment. You admire responsible and confident people, who know what they purpose.

    That 3E description is creepy accurate.. wtf.

    @Uncle Ave isn't Penny VELF ? Btw I think this is a much easier and str8 forward than socionics duality.
    Last edited by SGF; 03-08-2021 at 08:08 AM.

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    I don't know much about this system yet. Is Penny VELF? Why don't you ask him?
    What good is a book that does not even transport us beyond all books?

    ~Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    I don't know much about this system yet. Is Penny VELF? Why don't you ask him?
    @Suspiria ?

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    I may need to switch the places of logic and will. It probably makes the most sense. Going to let the ideas ferment for awhile.

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    1L - know it all
    2E - f*cking troll
    3V - wut... I know how to kind of get there but even my navel fluff is more interesting
    4F - I come to work butt naked.


    That's me.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

    Your life is too short to actually do anything useful with it without being wasteful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chin Diaper 007 View Post
    1L - know it all
    2E - f*cking troll
    3V - wut... I know how to kind of get there but even my navel fluff is more interesting
    4F - I come to work butt naked.


    That's me.
    I saw this and for some reason immediately thought of you <.<.. very strange..


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    /o\ it all makes sense now why I have trust issues... 3E & type 6... FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

    Damn.. AP is very useful.

    Thus far typology systems based on usefulness imo are: Enneagram > Attitudinal Psyche > Holland code > Socionics

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    I just found it. Need to study orgins (Afanasyev). But - what's your thoughts about mixing it with socionic. Can we create some nice model here?
    Jung, Psychosophy and Information Metabolism - ultimate popculture psychology model.
    If we name it MBTI, we can even gain popularity

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    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    Yeah, the trouble is separating 3L anxieties from perfectionist enneagram. Where does one end and the other begin

    I like this 3L description most. Also ouch.
    3L always sounds so Ti PolR.. or just bad Ti.

    LOL 1F masterrace

    1F love the feeling of possession “this is mine, and I can do whatever I want with it”. This attitude partially extends to the love partners of the First Physicists, to whom they show signs of the owner's attention: put your hand on your knee, cuddle, squeeze, etc. It is common for them to accumulate money without a specific purpose, because it is pleasant to own it. They are attached to the objects of their "possession" and with difficulty part with them. It can be argued that possessiveness is one of the main manifestations of 1F sensuality.

    In appearance, 1F is almost never small and fragile. Usually they are distinguished by a dense physique and an abundance of muscles on the body. Even if 1F has a thin body, it will still look athletic, not asthenic.



    The Second Logic, for example, provokes reflection and discussion. The owner of 2L can either ask tricky questions in a public speech, or initiate "srach" in the comments. Often, deservedly or not, he gives the impression of a troll who scoffs at someone else's stupidity. But in fact, 2L is not happy with stupidity, on the contrary, he wants an interesting discussion in which there are arguments and logical chains. The second logicians ask questions not in order to find out the answer, but in order to hear someone else's point of view and discuss it. They are disappointed by stubborn "square" interlocutors who do not experience the joy of thinking.

    @Chin Diaper 007 see this is why ppl think I'm ILE
    Last edited by SGF; 03-09-2021 at 09:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    3L always sounds so Ti PolR.. or just bad Ti.
    There may be something to that - if 3L were to flit between sources that contradict each other, for example.
    Poor understanding of what is inconsistent, and what could be discarded

    3L is hungry for knowledge but so scattered going about it. Dialogue with 2L or 1L (who confidently verify sources and structure their reasoning) brings assurance.

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