Results 1 to 38 of 38

Thread: Fe VS Emotional Abuse

  1. #1
    Akira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Га6eH
    Posts
    3,295
    Mentioned
    399 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default Fe VS Emotional Abuse

    Which is the fine line between expressing negative emotions in real time and Emotinal Abuse?

    Is there a way in which negative emotions can be expressed in real time without recurring to emotional abuse (yelling, undermining, insults, etc) or even escalating to physical abuse?

    Do you know Fe types who have never recurred to emotional abuse when expressing their emotions?Is this most common in Fe types?

    Mb it would sound "alien" for those who have never go trough such kind of environment or dealing with those kind of people.


    These are examples of what I'm speaking about...and it's all of these points together being repeatedly and frequently used, not just one or two of them once un a while.

    -Character assassination. This usually involves the word “always.” You’re always late, wrong, screwing up, disagreeable, and so on. Basically, they say you’re not a good person.

    -Yelling. Yelling, screaming, and swearing are meant to intimidate and make you feel small and inconsequential. It might be accompanied by fist-pounding or throwing things.

    -Digital spying. They might check your internet history, emails, texts, and call log. They might even demand your passwords.

    -Unilateral decision-making. They might close a joint bank account, cancel your doctor’s appointment, or speak with your boss without asking.

    -Lecturing. Belaboring your errors with long monologues makes it clear they think you’re beneath them.

    -Direct orders. From “Get my dinner on the table now” to “Stop taking the pill,” orders are expected to be followed despite your plans to the contrary.

    -Outbursts. You were told to cancel that outing with your friend or put the car in the garage, but didn’t, so now you have to put up with a red-faced tirade about how uncooperative you are.

    -Feigned helplessness. They may say they don’t know how to do something. Sometimes it’s easier to do it yourself than to explain it. They know this and take advantage of it.

    -Unpredictability. They’ll explode with rage out of nowhere, suddenly shower you with affection, or become dark and moody at the drop of a hat to keep you walking on eggshells.

    -Trivializing. When you want to talk about your hurt feelings, they accuse you of overreacting and making mountains out of molehills.

    -Saying you have no sense of humor. Abusers make personal jokes about you. If you object, they’ll tell you to lighten up.

    -Blaming you for their problems. Whatever’s wrong in their life is all your fault. You’re not supportive enough, didn’t do enough, or stuck your nose where it didn’t belong.

    -Demanding respect. No perceived slight will go unpunished, and you’re expected to defer to them. But it’s a one-way street.
    SOURCE
    MORE ABOUT IT...
    What Is Emotional Abuse?
    Emotional abuse is a way to control another person by using emotions to criticize, embarrass, shame, blame, or otherwise manipulate another person. In general, a relationship is emotionally abusive when there is a consistent pattern of abusive words and bullying behaviors that wear down a person's self-esteem and undermine their mental health.

    -Making unreasonable demands of you
    -Expecting you to put everything aside and meet their needs
    -Being dissatisfied no matter how hard you try or how much you give
    -Criticizing you for not completing tasks according to their standards
    -Expecting you to share their opinions (i.e., you are not permitted to have a different opinion)
    -Demanding that you name exact dates and times when discussing things that upset you (and when you cannot do this, they may dismiss the event as if it never happened)
    -Undermining, dismissing, or distorting your perceptions or your reality
    -Refusing to accept your feelings by trying to define how you should feel
    -Requiring you to explain how you feel over and over
    -Accusing you of being "too sensitive," "too emotional," or "crazy"
    -Refusing to acknowledge or accept your opinions or ideas as valid
    -Dismissing your requests, wants, and needs as ridiculous or unmerited
    -Suggesting that your perceptions are wrong or that you cannot be trusted by saying things like "you're blowing this out of proportion" or "you exaggerate"
    -Accusing you of being selfish, needy, or materialistic if you express your wants or needs (the expectation is that you should not have any wants or needs)


    Create Chaos
    Emotionally abusive people create chaos. Some examples include:

    -Starting arguments for the sake of arguing
    -Making confusing and contradictory statements (sometimes called "crazy-making")
    -Having drastic mood changes or sudden emotional outbursts
    -Nitpicking at your clothes, your hair, your work, and more
    -Behaving so erratically and unpredictably that you feel like you are "walking on eggshells"
    ​-Use Emotional Blackmail

    Emotionally abusive people use emotional blackmail. Some examples include:

    -Manipulating and controlling you by making you feel guilty
    -Humiliating you in public or in private
    -Using your fears, values, compassion, or other hot buttons to control you or the situation
    -Exaggerating your flaws or pointing them out in order to deflect attention or to avoid taking responsibility for their poor choices or mistakes
    -Denying that an event took place or lying about it
    -Punishing you by withholding affection or giving you the silent treatment

    Act Superior
    Emotionally abusive people act superior and entitled. Some examples include:

    -Treating you like you are inferior
    -Blaming you for their mistakes and shortcomings
    -Doubting everything you say and attempting to prove you wrong
    -Making jokes at your expense
    -Telling you that your opinions, ideas, values, and thoughts are stupid, illogical, or "do not make sense"
    -Talking down to you or being condescending
    -Using sarcasm when interacting with you
    -Acting like they are always right, know what is best, and are smarter
    Source


    Last edited by Akira; 01-24-2021 at 01:55 PM.

  2. #2
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    1,882
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Honestly it depends on the person receiving the negativity more than it does on the person giving it. I doubt there's a universal way to satisfy everybody, but there are groups of people who can handle negativity better if it's interlaced with humor. There are also people who are able to recognize good will and ill will and base their reactions off of that rather than the negativity of the statement. And then, if people know you tend to say things for the benefit of others even if they are negative, people are likely to take it less emotionally.

    For me, you have to know what kind of person you're dealing with in order to avoid emotional abuse. Some people are very easy to cross boundaries with and you should be super careful about how you phrase things, some people just need it presented in a certain way, and then there are people who have fun when they're criticized.

    As far as the hard stop definition, I think the difference between negativity and abuse is intent, malice. Not knowing when to stop can be a very close second.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,229
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I will talk about this if you are interested.

  4. #4
    Akira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Га6eH
    Posts
    3,295
    Mentioned
    399 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    I will talk about this if you are interested.
    Sure, thats why I opened this thread.
    "All nations will place their hope in him."
    (Mt 12:21)

  5. #5
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    9,927
    Mentioned
    1053 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    There are books on how to express negative emotions without being abusive. I think of it as "fighting fairly", and IIRC, it involves things like never pushing buttons, never using the phrase "You always", never having contempt for the other person, etc.

    Try a google search on the above terms, and you should find a wealth of information on respectful disagreements.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    TIM
    EII-C 4w5 sx/so
    Posts
    187
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't think abuse is about how someone reacts to said event, insofar as putting the blame on the victim. But I do think that the dynamic between the perpetrator and the victim as well as the victims own vulnerabilities play a role. I would say repeated instances of cruel behavior, especially when another reasonable person would not treat the victim that way, intentional or not, is abuse. Or even one instance of especially cruel behavior (purposely causing trauma, harm, via exploiting previous psychic vulnerabilities). In the end the responsibility of the perpetrator should never be undermined, and victim's "vulnerability" or whatever shouldn't even be remotely used to transfer blame or something. I feel like some people are capable of that.

    so essentially reasonable people in the right state of mind in the present are typically not abusive even if they are using what may be someone's polr. If they are causing harm however, that has to be further investigated.

    ex: with polr, I believe the norms and the high dimensionality tie in sort of an ethical or normal manifestation of said function. So around someone who you may unintentionally harm even if you "only" slightly stepped out of line, you would be ideally aware of their vulnerability due to the function high dimensionality and naturally curb your behavior so as to not hurt them. It's not always this neat ofc, sometimes in supervision especially but unintentional abuse is still abuse.

    EII-C | INFP | 4(w5)96 sx/so

  7. #7
    Aushrafarian Chin Diaper 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On a toilet, right above you
    TIM
    mb ILE-H LEVF
    Posts
    6,208
    Mentioned
    265 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think bad accumulated experiences and how the person can not solve those. If you can be there calmly time after time showing it really is not so bad as it looks like it will change.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

    Your life is too short to actually do anything useful with it without being wasteful.

  8. #8
    Number 9 large's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Baking bread
    TIM
    ESTp 7w8 Aries Sp/Sx
    Posts
    4,068
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira View Post
    Which is the fine line between expressing negative emotions in real time and Emotinal Abuse?

    Is there a way in which negative emotions can be expressed in real time without recurring to emotional abuse (yelling, undermining, insults, etc) or even escalating to physical abuse?

    Do you know Fe types who have never recurred to emotional abuse when expressing their emotions?Is this most common in Fe types?

    Mb it would sound "alien" for those who have never go trough such kind of environment or dealing with those kind of people.


    These are examples of what I'm speaking about...

    -Character assassination. This usually involves the word “always.” You’re always late, wrong, screwing up, disagreeable, and so on. Basically, they say you’re not a good person.

    -Yelling. Yelling, screaming, and swearing are meant to intimidate and make you feel small and inconsequential. It might be accompanied by fist-pounding or throwing things.

    -Digital spying. They might check your internet history, emails, texts, and call log. They might even demand your passwords.

    -Unilateral decision-making. They might close a joint bank account, cancel your doctor’s appointment, or speak with your boss without asking.

    -Lecturing. Belaboring your errors with long monologues makes it clear they think you’re beneath them.

    -Direct orders. From “Get my dinner on the table now” to “Stop taking the pill,” orders are expected to be followed despite your plans to the contrary.

    Outbursts. You were told to cancel that outing with your friend or put the car in the garage, but didn’t, so now you have to put up with a red-faced tirade about how uncooperative you are.

    -Feigned helplessness. They may say they don’t know how to do something. Sometimes it’s easier to do it yourself than to explain it. They know this and take advantage of it.

    -Unpredictability. They’ll explode with rage out of nowhere, suddenly shower you with affection, or become dark and moody at the drop of a hat to keep you walking on eggshells.

    -Trivializing. When you want to talk about your hurt feelings, they accuse you of overreacting and making mountains out of molehills.

    -Saying you have no sense of humor. Abusers make personal jokes about you. If you object, they’ll tell you to lighten up.

    -Blaming you for their problems. Whatever’s wrong in their life is all your fault. You’re not supportive enough, didn’t do enough, or stuck your nose where it didn’t belong.

    -Demanding respect. No perceived slight will go unpunished, and you’re expected to defer to them. But it’s a one-way street.
    SOURCE
    MORE ABOUT IT...
    What Is Emotional Abuse?
    Emotional abuse is a way to control another person by using emotions to criticize, embarrass, shame, blame, or otherwise manipulate another person. In general, a relationship is emotionally abusive when there is a consistent pattern of abusive words and bullying behaviors that wear down a person's self-esteem and undermine their mental health.

    -Making unreasonable demands of you
    -Expecting you to put everything aside and meet their needs
    -Being dissatisfied no matter how hard you try or how much you give
    -Criticizing you for not completing tasks according to their standards
    -Expecting you to share their opinions (i.e., you are not permitted to have a different opinion)
    -Demanding that you name exact dates and times when discussing things that upset you (and when you cannot do this, they may dismiss the event as if it never happened)
    -Undermining, dismissing, or distorting your perceptions or your reality
    -Refusing to accept your feelings by trying to define how you should feel
    -Requiring you to explain how you feel over and over
    -Accusing you of being "too sensitive," "too emotional," or "crazy"
    -Refusing to acknowledge or accept your opinions or ideas as valid
    -Dismissing your requests, wants, and needs as ridiculous or unmerited
    -Suggesting that your perceptions are wrong or that you cannot be trusted by saying things like "you're blowing this out of proportion" or "you exaggerate"
    -Accusing you of being selfish, needy, or materialistic if you express your wants or needs (the expectation is that you should not have any wants or needs)


    Create Chaos
    Emotionally abusive people create chaos. Some examples include:

    -Starting arguments for the sake of arguing
    -Making confusing and contradictory statements (sometimes called "crazy-making")
    -Having drastic mood changes or sudden emotional outbursts
    -Nitpicking at your clothes, your hair, your work, and more
    -Behaving so erratically and unpredictably that you feel like you are "walking on eggshells"
    ​-Use Emotional Blackmail

    Emotionally abusive people use emotional blackmail. Some examples include:

    -Manipulating and controlling you by making you feel guilty
    -Humiliating you in public or in private
    -Using your fears, values, compassion, or other hot buttons to control you or the situation
    -Exaggerating your flaws or pointing them out in order to deflect attention or to avoid taking responsibility for their poor choices or mistakes
    -Denying that an event took place or lying about it
    -Punishing you by withholding affection or giving you the silent treatment

    Act Superior
    Emotionally abusive people act superior and entitled. Some examples include:

    -Treating you like you are inferior
    -Blaming you for their mistakes and shortcomings
    -Doubting everything you say and attempting to prove you wrong
    -Making jokes at your expense
    -Telling you that your opinions, ideas, values, and thoughts are stupid, illogical, or "do not make sense"
    -Talking down to you or being condescending
    -Using sarcasm when interacting with you
    -Acting like they are always right, know what is best, and are smarter
    Source


    awww booboo. Fe types bad.
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire ~ Aries ~ Beta ~ Gryffindor ~ Summer ~ SLUEN ~

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    12,659
    Mentioned
    1161 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    "Emotinal abuse" is anything what you do not like.
    Negative emotions expressed about them people generally do not like. It's one of cases.
    There are also formal situations which are thought as abuse, which are supposed to be more universal.

    Fe types lesser take into account what some human likes, what makes them more rude and insulting. At least, from point of Fi valued types.
    Fi types should be emotionally annoying in own way for Fe valued types. For example, to show not enough emotional agitation, - what they perceive as low value of them or of a situation for Fi types.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  10. #10
    Akira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Га6eH
    Posts
    3,295
    Mentioned
    399 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    New questions, how extended or normalized do You think Emotional/phsychological abuse is common in the population of the US /or your country? As example. of 'Emotional abuse' I can think in Karen like behavior.
    Last edited by Akira; 01-24-2021 at 01:57 PM.

  11. #11
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,632
    Mentioned
    137 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Abuse has more to do with acquired baggage and isn't limited to one IE. One thing I like about Fe-types is that even I can usually detect where their heads are or what's bothering them because emotion tends to be worn on their sleeves. Like Sol indicated, truth can often seem like abuse when it's delivered poorly. I have a thick skin so I tend not to react to bad deliveries, and simply look for the message.

    a.k.a. I/O

  12. #12

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    11,686
    Mentioned
    354 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Expressing negative emotion is expressing negative emotion to ascend yourself to a better place ((even if there is no 'better' and it's just catharsis for its own sake- which I'd agrue is a 'better' thing anyway with my Fe optimism), and also I think with Fi valuers they hope more to 'grow with the other person' than I have faith for.

    Emotional abuse is trying to make somebody else feel bad to be a prick- you want to take them down to your level, not build yourself (or each other) up.

    The two can mix though. A lot of what is known as 'humor' is the mixing of the two above things. You don't have to be mean to be funny, but I'd argue you also can't be funny without being a little mean. You need to troll the sweetness somewhat. But like imagine the Golden Girls saying that stuff to each other in a less cutesy way lol.

    Simply getting offended isn't emotional abuse though- because other people often only say what your own ego hasn't dealt with yet. And the world is filled with minor things that hurt ur feelings every day. The reason social situations are difficult for the majority of people, is other people are often going to say what you haven't dealt with yet. They aren't just going to be nice little echo chambers for your own narcissism. This is a quite a bit different than 'emotionally abuse' but I'm certain emotionally abusive people twist that sort of thing to their own sadistic advantage lol.

  13. #13
    detail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    495
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It generally boils down to a sense of ownership of our own emotions. Is the person only expressing their own emotions? Are they simultaneously using the opportunity to be aggressive towards a person for being a purported cause of their own emotions? Are they acting like the expression of their emotions is more important than the emotions of the people who are present? These are all factors that determine the answer to your question. Being overwhelmed by emotions is not a situation that puts the overwhelmed person above others so if they act this way, they are most likely not owning their own emotions. At the same time it's not necessarily wrong to not act like a mature adult in such a moment, precisely because being overwhelmed can cloud our judgment. I'd say it's better to look for patterns and to go on a case by case basis because the words that describe what is right or wrong in one situation could be used to demonstrate the opposite point in another unrelated situation. Determining specific universal rules is not the best idea when it comes to healthy emotional management.

  14. #14
    stare into me flames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    As seen on T.V.
    TIM
    E I E I OOOOO Sx/So
    Posts
    2,656
    Mentioned
    319 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yes, Fe is evil.


    This thread feels like the spiritual successor to the “Asperger’s or 1D Fe?” thread. Keep shitposting these bait-y Trisha Paytas logic questions, queen.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit

  15. #15
    stare into me flames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    As seen on T.V.
    TIM
    E I E I OOOOO Sx/So
    Posts
    2,656
    Mentioned
    319 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira View Post
    New questions, how extended or normalized do You think Emotional/phsychological abuse is common in the population of the US /or your country? As example. of 'Emotional abuse' I can think in Karen like behavior.
    This is a better question! I think it’s more normalized in the US than many of us are willing to admit or capable of picking up on. It starts imprinting on us at a young age, maybe school age. Exactly how it completes this is something that might take a little while to unpack, but I am willing to take a stab at it if it’s really that important to you. I might have to make that tomorrow night’s insomnia homework assignment.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Everyone, pls give Bled some likes. He craves the likes much like Suedehead craves the cock.
    7w6 2w3 8w9 - The Free Spirit

  16. #16

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    11,686
    Mentioned
    354 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think of it as "fighting fairly", and IIRC, it involves things like never pushing buttons, never using the phrase "You always", never having contempt for the other person, etc.


    1. Fights are rarely "fair." That's why they are called fights.

    2. You can't really fight without pushing buttons. How lame. What kinda pampered spoiled professionals wrote a book like that?

    3. I think it's safe to assume 'always' means "You do that too much for my liking" not that literally the person does it all the time. Just an example of how Fe is good at reading between the lines, I suppose. "Always" is just more succinct than saying 'You do that too much for my own tastes' every single time.

    4. You are going to have contempt for the person, that's why you are fighting in the first place. RAAAAGEEE!!!



  17. #17
    Akira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Га6eH
    Posts
    3,295
    Mentioned
    399 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flames View Post
    Yes, Fe is evil.


    This thread feels like the spiritual successor to the “Asperger’s or 1D Fe?” thread. Keep shitposting these bait-y Trisha Paytas logic questions, queen.
    Ok, whatever you say, Queen!

  18. #18
    Akira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Га6eH
    Posts
    3,295
    Mentioned
    399 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post

    1. Fights are rarely "fair." That's why they are called fights.

    2. You can't really fight without pushing buttons. How lame. What kinda pampered spoiled professionals wrote a book like that?

    3. I think it's safe to assume 'always' means "You do that too much for my liking" not that literally the person does it all the time. Just an example of how Fe is good at reading between the lines, I suppose. "Always" is just more succinct than saying 'You do that too much for my own tastes' every single time.

    4. You are going to have contempt for the person, that's why you are fighting in the first place. RAAAAGEEE!!!


    But who was talking about fights?

  19. #19

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    11,686
    Mentioned
    354 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Adam Strange, but you're right it is a different topic than the OP.

  20. #20
    thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,258
    Mentioned
    297 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You can express negative emotions ("vent") without blaming the other person for them (especially unfairly). The "no sense of humor" part is maybe Fe but most of the behaviors listed here are really signs of aggression and more about Se than Fe: character assassination (SeFi even), yelling, unilateral decision making, direct orders, demanding respect, blaming for problems, etc. It doesn't make much sense to attribute these to the Alpha Fe types which mostly prefer not to express negative emotions in a harsh way.

  21. #21

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    11,686
    Mentioned
    354 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    The emotional abuse of Fe is that it wants to make you happy when you need to be sad. (sociopathy)
    The emotional abuse of Fi is that it wants to make you sad when you deserve to be happy. (sadism)

  22. #22
    Akira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Га6eH
    Posts
    3,295
    Mentioned
    399 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    You can express negative emotions ("vent") without blaming the other person for them (especially unfairly). The "no sense of humor" part is maybe Fe but most of the behaviors listed here are really signs of aggression and more about Se than Fe: character assassination (SeFi even), yelling, unilateral decision making, direct orders, demanding respect, blaming for problems, etc. It doesn't make much sense to attribute these to the Alpha Fe types which mostly prefer not to express negative emotions in a harsh way.
    Partially true. Though, I've met ESE and LII and both enjoy drama once in a while. And I mean throwing objects, giving a slap, throwing fists and yelling.

  23. #23
    Italians do it better Lolita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    California
    TIM
    SEE-N™ 863
    Posts
    959
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Character assassination and demanding respect, etc. is linked with Fe to Se, a big EIE thing. That’s Fe demanding others follow the hierarchy- “I demand respect because I’m higher on the chain than you!” They want to viewed a certain way, and if you don’t comply, they know how to make life hell for you by throwing histrionics and launching image campaign against their enemies. Fe to Se wants emotional impact to make their authority. Se with Fe SEE is more like doing things to express their desires, and their desires are personalized in themselves and their values so it isn’t related to getting others to pay attention to them “or else.” The authority is already there for SEE and it’s anchored in self-interests, not demanding attention drawn to it in order to make it authority.

    ESE aren’t likely to do the same histrionic shit like EIE because they’re Fe+ and emphasize on the “feel good” aspects but they’re still Fe and want to control the environment and how others feel to get those people on their side.

  24. #24
    thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,258
    Mentioned
    297 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira View Post
    Partially true. Though, I've met ESE and LII and both enjoy drama once in a while. And I mean throwing objects, giving a slap, throwing fists and yelling.
    It does not make any sense to me why an Si valuing type (especially Se-4) would enjoy the things you listed.

  25. #25
    Akira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Га6eH
    Posts
    3,295
    Mentioned
    399 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    It does not make any sense to me why an Si valuing type (especially Se-4) would enjoy the things you listed.
    Ok, keep living in your bubble.

  26. #26
    𝓐𝓓𝓗𝓓 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓴𝓮𝔂 Loaded Piss Gun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    TIM
    IEE-Ne 7w8 Sx/Sp
    Posts
    956
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    It does not make any sense to me why an Si valuing type (especially Se-4) would enjoy the things you listed.
    I think @Akira says that because it could as well be a display of Fe, probably gone unhealthy though. At times both Ne and Si egos can have a really shit control over Se and go nuts if unhealthy. ESE and LSE can rage like psychos with that Se demo
    I make music

  27. #27
    Akira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Га6eH
    Posts
    3,295
    Mentioned
    399 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loaded Piss Gun View Post
    I think @Akira says that because it could as well be a display of Fe, probably gone unhealthy though. At times both Ne and Si egos can have a really shit control over Se and go nuts if unhealthy. ESE and LSE can rage like psychos with that Se demo
    Yeah but he doesnt want to see it because he has an idealized image of Alphas.

  28. #28
    𝓐𝓓𝓗𝓓 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓴𝓮𝔂 Loaded Piss Gun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    TIM
    IEE-Ne 7w8 Sx/Sp
    Posts
    956
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira View Post
    Yeah but he doesnt want to see it because he has an idealized image of Alphas.
    Many people in this site have an idealized image of each quadra, tbh. That's why nothing productive will come out of this site, I think. People here are typing Jim Carrey SLE, for god's sake, lmao.
    I make music

  29. #29
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Maizistan
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    1,687
    Mentioned
    152 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira View Post
    Partially true. Though, I've met ESE and LII and both enjoy drama once in a while. And I mean throwing objects, giving a slap, throwing fists and yelling.
    What was it about?

  30. #30
    💩 Nobody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    363
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira View Post
    Ok, keep living in your bubble.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loaded Piss Gun View Post
    I think @Akira says that because it could as well be a display of Fe, probably gone unhealthy though. At times both Ne and Si egos can have a really shit control over Se and go nuts if unhealthy. ESE and LSE can rage like psychos with that Se demo
    hmm. In his defense he didn’t say it wasn’t possible, but that it wouldn’t make sense that they would “enjoy” it. I mean it doesn’t make sense that anyone would enjoy it either, that’s kind of implied by them being negative? Maybe I’m being too anal, but I don’t see the problem.

    And I’m sorta confused. Are all those negative emotions supposed to just be Fe? Cause I can recall at least one relationship between LSE and SEI where the LSE did most of this and the SEI some too. I kind of think it was a conflict of Fi vs Fe and the SEI being Te polr when the LSE wanted someone that would work with them on things -> Te. He would just get mad and then snub her a lot like it was her problem to solve and eventually she divorced. Te lead seems kind of unbearable when they think everyone should align with their interests.
    Last edited by Nobody; 01-30-2021 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Cell phone

    I've got no strings

    To hold me down
    To make me fret
    Or make me frown
    I had strings
    But now I'm free
    There are no strings on me

  31. #31
    Aushrafarian Chin Diaper 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On a toilet, right above you
    TIM
    mb ILE-H LEVF
    Posts
    6,208
    Mentioned
    265 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I actually experience so called result Fe being less so then process. LII's experience it other way around. The result dichotomy mindset makes people to bitch about things when they do not feel good - lots of ESE's and LII's are this (hotel's answer being an example of it). Process types tend to melt themselves in their own stuff (prone to mental breakdowns) which in turn makes result type type (prone to bitch) to show anger towards it which continues the cycle.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

    Your life is too short to actually do anything useful with it without being wasteful.

  32. #32
    Akira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Га6eH
    Posts
    3,295
    Mentioned
    399 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    hmm. In his defense he didn’t say it wasn’t possible, but that it wouldn’t make sense that they would “enjoy” it. I mean it doesn’t make sense that anyone would enjoy it either, that’s kind of implied by them being negative? Maybe I’m being too anal, but I don’t see the problem.

    And I’m sorta confused. Are all those negative emotions supposed to just be Fe? Cause I can recall at least one relationship between LSE and SEI where the LSE did most of this and the SEI some too. I kind of think it was a conflict of Fi vs Fe and the SEI being Te polr when the LSE wanted someone that would work with them on things -> Te. He would just get mad and then snub her a lot like it was her problem to solve and eventually she divorced. Te lead seems kind of unbearable when they think everyone should align with their interests.
    Mb you are deviating from the original questions:

    Do you know Fe types who have never recurred to emotional abuse when expressing negative emotions?Is this most common in Fe types?

    I know other types that can do this, but most Fe I know do it in the way described in the quotes I pasted. And yeah, Mb LxE do it too, after all they have Fe role.

  33. #33
    𝓐𝓓𝓗𝓓 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓴𝓮𝔂 Loaded Piss Gun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    TIM
    IEE-Ne 7w8 Sx/Sp
    Posts
    956
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    hmm. In his defense he didn’t say it wasn’t possible, but that it wouldn’t make sense that they would “enjoy” it. I mean it doesn’t make sense that anyone would enjoy it either, that’s kind of implied by them being negative? Maybe I’m being too anal, but I don’t see the problem.

    And I’m sorta confused. Are all those negative emotions supposed to just be Fe? Cause I can recall at least one relationship between LSE and SEI where the LSE did most of this and the SEI some too. I kind of think it was a conflict of Fi vs Fe and the SEI being Te polr when the LSE wanted someone that would work with them on things -> Te. He would just get mad and then snub her a lot like it was her problem to solve and eventually she divorced. Te lead seems kind of unbearable when they think everyone should align with their interests.
    Read my comment again.
    I make music

  34. #34
    𝓐𝓓𝓗𝓓 𝓜𝓸𝓷𝓴𝓮𝔂 Loaded Piss Gun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    TIM
    IEE-Ne 7w8 Sx/Sp
    Posts
    956
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira View Post
    Mb you are deviating from the original questions:

    Do you know Fe types who have never recurred to emotional abuse when expressing negative emotions?Is this most common in Fe types?

    I know other types that can do this, but most Fe I know do it in the way described in the quotes I pasted. And yeah, Mb LxE do it too, after all they have Fe role.
    When me and my ESE ex-bestie parted ways, he said "I can't stand this anymore, we're always fighting. I'll stop being your friend, and maybe you'll call me a pussy for this(I didn't lol). I won't make a big drama out of this." the next step was making a big drama out of it and getting people involved in his part. I am not a saint, I was slightly abusive as fuck, while he was a cunt, but after we parted ways he kept making drama about it and getting people involved while playing victim like a little bitch. I didn't even say anything, I forgot anything happened and moved on with my life. But it's true Fe egos will cry out and play victim, do theatrics about it and expect others to take their side and tell them whoever hurt them is a bad, bad guy.
    I make music

  35. #35
    Moharu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    TIM
    ILI? - Ne?
    Posts
    124
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chin Diaper 007 View Post
    I actually experience so called result Fe being less so then process. LII's experience it other way around. The result dichotomy mindset makes people to bitch about things when they do not feel good - lots of ESE's and LII's are this (hotel's answer being an example of it). Process types tend to melt themselves in their own stuff (prone to mental breakdowns) which in turn makes result type type (prone to bitch) to show anger towards it which continues the cycle.
    I think this is why I always feel LIIs are more bitchy than ILEs (and ILEs have stronger Fe than them)

  36. #36
    Moharu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    TIM
    ILI? - Ne?
    Posts
    124
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiana View Post
    Character assassination and demanding respect, etc. is linked with Fe to Se, a big EIE thing. That’s Fe demanding others follow the hierarchy- “I demand respect because I’m higher on the chain than you!” They want to viewed a certain way, and if you don’t comply, they know how to make life hell for you by throwing histrionics and launching image campaign against their enemies. Fe to Se wants emotional impact to make their authority. Se with Fe SEE is more like doing things to express their desires, and their desires are personalized in themselves and their values so it isn’t related to getting others to pay attention to them “or else.” The authority is already there for SEE and it’s anchored in self-interests, not demanding attention drawn to it in order to make it authority.

    ESE aren’t likely to do the same histrionic shit like EIE because they’re Fe+ and emphasize on the “feel good” aspects but they’re still Fe and want to control the environment and how others feel to get those people on their side.
    ESEs Fe+? I remember in model B, they have Fe-/Fi+ lead?
    Last edited by Moharu; 01-31-2021 at 04:28 AM.

  37. #37
    Italians do it better Lolita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    California
    TIM
    SEE-N™ 863
    Posts
    959
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    ESEs Fe+? I remember in model B, they have Fe-/Fi+ lead?
    DarkAngelFireWolf69 +/-
    ESE Fe+
    EIE Fe-

    Others with high dimensional Fe: IEE Fe+ SEE Fe-
    Other Fe egos: IEI Fe+ SEI Fe-

    It's because Fe+ is linked with Si (pleasant, feel good, etc.) and Fe- is linked with Se (being indignant, defiant, attitude, etc.)

  38. #38
    💩 Nobody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    363
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira View Post
    Mb you are deviating from the original questions:

    Do you know Fe types who have never recurred to emotional abuse when expressing negative emotions?Is this most common in Fe types?

    I know other types that can do this, but most Fe I know do it in the way described in the quotes I pasted. And yeah, Mb LxE do it too, after all they have Fe role.
    Well, I had long-term romantic relationship with a woman a long time ago and it didn't end up working out. There was some of that, but it was so long ago that I don't know if she was SEE or ESE and I don't know if maybe back then I was more ILI because I might have changed types.

    I do know I had a falling out with an ESE extended family relative that I lived with for awhile. In retrospect I was having a lot of emotional problems that I wasn't admitting or aware of and it wasn't really all her fault that things didn't work out. If I had to assign some negative things to her from your list, maybe blaming and demanding respect and acting superior. But then again, and I hate to use the term because it's a pejorative, though it's incredibly apt - she was/"still is?" a classic boomer (and I'm on the cusp of being a millenial, which is seen pretty negative too). So that kind of goes with boomer thinking. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and redo all of my failed relationships now that I'm a lot more stable and mature, but I guess that's why they say "youth is wasted on the young".

    I've got no strings

    To hold me down
    To make me fret
    Or make me frown
    I had strings
    But now I'm free
    There are no strings on me

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •