Results 1 to 32 of 32

Thread: Porn and Art

  1. #1
    Ксеркс, царь царей xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Miniluv
    Posts
    7,204
    Mentioned
    161 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Porn and Art

    When can porn ever be considered art (and vice versa)?

  2. #2
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,778
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    When can porn ever be considered art (and vice versa)?
    A director named Andrew Blake once won the silver medal in the Non-Theatrical Release Category at the Worldfest-Houston International Film Festival for his movie Night Trips, which was the first xxx-rated movie to win an award in a mainstream international film festival. I have seen many of his movies and have a few of them on DVD. Of some of these DVDs I even ripped the soundtracks and put them on cassette and MP3, the music is very experimental, ambient and jazzy in nature, totally devoid of clichés. I consider his movies true art. It is not just his aesthetic focus (for which he is commonly praised), but these is also a strong undercurrent of the interpersonal relationships and attitudes of the personalities displayed, even if his actors never speak (the speaking is done by the music). An undercurrent of power relations between the characters, very tense and exciting. Watching his movies is like immersing yourself into a magic realist sphere.

    It is because of his movies that I often say that if it was all up to me, I would lay on the sofa all day long, smoking weed and watching porn. iI have been a bit spoiled by his movies, I don't care for anything else, especially not the porn on sites such as xvideos, xhamster, pornhub etc.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

  3. #3
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    12,140
    Mentioned
    1229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Personal tastes vary so much. What is hot to one person is not to another.

    An ILI friend of mine who has gargoyles in his living room and a secret room in his basement had a small book of bondage stories, with black-and-white illustrations, on his bookshelf. His mother found it when she visited his house. I think there was a difference in opinion regarding what is art and what is porn.
    They stopped talking shortly after that.

    I should add that he's had a lot of female friends. None of them found him to be long-term material, although some wanted him to be. He has told me what type of women he finds attractive, and they all look like SEE's to me. He hasn't found one IRL yet.

    I didn't learn this from that episode, but I do make it a rule to never share my tastes in porn. You are guaranteed to discover that almost no one draws the same dividing line between art and porn that you do, so I just leave that part entirely off my resume.

    I personally like to look at nude women, if they aren't overweight, that is. I guess I'd say that my interest starts out as viewing them as art, and then may or may not become pornographic, which indicates to me that the dividing line between art and porn is entirely subjective.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-14-2021 at 11:48 PM.

  4. #4
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,778
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I didn't learn this from that episode, but I do make it a rule to never share my porn collection. It's hard enough for me to find a woman who wants to have sex, much less one who likes exactly what I like.
    Perhaps the path to finding a woman who wants to have sex with you, is not to be ashamed of who you are and letting it show proudly. Now that doesn't mean you should be shouting your porn interests from the rooftops, but if you meet a nice woman, there certainly must be a moment where you should open up, be vulnerable and confident about yourself at the same time.

    Unless, of course, you porn collection involves children or animals, its better tokeep those behind lock and key (and perhaps seek help).
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

  5. #5
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    12,140
    Mentioned
    1229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Perhaps the path to finding a woman who wants to have sex with you, is not to be ashamed of who you are and letting it show proudly. Now that doesn't mean you should be shouting your porn interests from the rooftops, but if you meet a nice woman, there certainly must be a moment where you should open up, be vulnerable and confident about yourself at the same time.

    Unless, of course, you porn collection involves children or animals, its better to keep those behind lock and key (and perhaps seek help).
    I'm actually not shy about sharing my wishes with women. Some like what I like, some don't. I'm forming a theory that I might share some day.

    And No, my porn collection doesn't involve children or animals. I'm pretty vanilla in my tastes. Just roller skates, whipping cream, and balloon animals.

  6. #6
    ━━━━━⊱⋆⊰━━━━━ reverie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    IEI-N 946 sp/so
    Posts
    2,385
    Mentioned
    458 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    imo, if you consider it art, it is. I think you could look at it that way.
    ·:*¨༺༻¨*:·.𝓽𝓾𝓶𝓫𝓵𝓻·:*¨༺ ༻¨*:·.
    քɨռȶɛʀɛֆȶ
    ♓︎ 𝓅𝒾𝓈𝒸𝑒𝓈 ♓︎ 𝓅𝒾𝓈𝒸𝑒𝓈
    ♍︎ 𝓋𝒾𝓇𝑔𝑜 𝓇𝒾𝓈𝒾𝓃𝑔 ♍︎

  7. #7
    ooo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    the bootie
    Posts
    4,051
    Mentioned
    300 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    interesting cause i was thinking about just the same, well... new year came and now some of my suppliers are sharing their calendars... and well, they're all sexy ?!? i'm a bit shocked.. i mean, am i supposed to hang that in my office? when people come in? shouldn't art be dispalyed like that for all to enjoY? but lol... as if i was a truck driver but im not and i dont understand this use of female bodies just to sell smth, this is real porn to me, even if they dont show pussy or have sex

    anyway, i made a low attempt to bring this up to suppliers, said "hey, when do u make naked males calendar", to which he replied "no we like females more"... but tbh it's embarassing to me to deal with someone who i know faps on those things, i mean of course theyre nice looging girls and i get hot looking at them too... but why make them selling machines to sell me a damn 2 euros thing.. i mean, i feel underestimated as a woman, too

  8. #8
    growing cakes on some ropes Vex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Bakery
    Posts
    392
    Mentioned
    86 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Belladonna of Sadness and the trilogy it belongs to is a good example of art porn.




    BORN TO TYPE
    WORLD IS A SOCIONIKA
    心理学 Type Em All 1991
    I am jung fan

    410,757,864,530 PEOPLE TYPED




  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    13,160
    Mentioned
    1229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    > When can porn ever be considered art (and vice versa)?

    "Art" is linked with "artificiality" - anything made by humans.
    Also, practically it needs to be wanted or to be liked by someone to name it as "art".

    other limits is a formality

    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    i mean, i feel underestimated as a woman, too
    Main reasons should be economical.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  10. #10
    BandD's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    AB-IEI-Ni
    Posts
    12,771
    Mentioned
    500 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Porn doesn't need to defend itself. People who are trying to take away our porn need to defend themselves. It just causes social shame because people still demonize healthy sex. And we're all still so ashamed of our natural sexuality, because it's corny and cringe-y for most people to declare their kinks in public. But this doesn't make them go away.

    You shouldn't look up porn too much 'all the time' but whatever. You can say that about everything.

    Child porn and beastality is already illegal as it should be. I'm not sure you can "help" somebody looking that crap up because helping is too nicey-nice and might just help them rationalize to do it more. You can only punish something like that. ((although the punishment should also fit the crime with how many images it really was/how long it was going on for- but really of course one image is one too many and sick lol))





    Last edited by BandD; 01-15-2021 at 03:04 PM.

  11. #11
    ooo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    the bootie
    Posts
    4,051
    Mentioned
    300 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    im thinking that if you can expose the nudity in a room, without feeling ashamed of the content it shows, then that's art.

    there's another consideration, in that, for example, ancient graeco-romans or hindus or wtv used to have entire chinas and walls representations of sexuality, but even looking at them now, they're not particularly scandalous in most cases, and some of them were used as tools to enhance the passion... just like pornography today, anyway, the important difference is that they were representations, which unlike photography, I think have a more diluted tone by default.

    I remember my granpa used to have a photo in the corridor of his house of a young naked woman laying on the pillows of a harem, it's never been a scandalous pic despite showing nudity... so really it's possible to expose nudity without running in porn and it's possible to show less but be so vulgar to land on its shores

    and i cant really tell where this thin line is...

  12. #12
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    12,140
    Mentioned
    1229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Every year there is an event which is all about sex and art in a huge warehouse in some bombed-out post industrial section of Detroit. People dress in costumes in various states of dress and undress. There is a huge bar and food and naked women and men and art for sale and it is loads of fun, if you are Sx-first. I actually saw more ESIs there than I have anywhere else, but they were all with guys.

    One guy was selling photographs he'd taken of naked women, and incredibly enough, he had one which looked exactly like my SLI-Te ex-wife. It wasn't her, but it was pretty close. I bought it. IRL, my ex never let a camera or phone get close to her when she was naked. But then, she was sx-last.

    My problem now is the fact that I can't display it anywhere. It is clearly art (the woman's hair is done in a classically Greek style, and she's reclining in front of a stream in Northern Michigan in the woods), but it feels weird when I look at it. It's not pornographic, but my reaction to it is not one that I have for most art, either.

  13. #13
    in the arms of false mother inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,869
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    My problem now is the fact that I can't display it anywhere.
    skeletons go in closets?

  14. #14
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,281
    Mentioned
    199 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    When can porn ever be considered art (and vice versa)?
    The definition of Porn has varied throughout history and cultures. For me and most Christians, it's the vulgar and graphic depiction of sexual acts. That's porn and no, it's not and will not ever be art. However, one can go off the opposite deep end and declare that the depiction of any nude human form to be pornographic. Hell, it can go further than that. The girl can be clad in some rather revealing clothes according to some puritain and that gets equivocated to a graphic depiction of sexual intercourse in the minds of some Protestant Puritans!

    This is obviously taking things too far. Michelangelo's "David" is merely a depiction of an "ideal" Masculine form. I wish I knew of the equivalent of that work for the Feminine form but it ought to likewise be seen as such and not seen as obscene because she's naked. You bring up an intriguing line of inquiry, I hope we can explore it more deeply somehow .

  15. #15
    Rusal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    TIM
    NF
    Posts
    498
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think it's in L.A. where porn 'actors' have to legally register as such so as not to be charged with prostitution. So porn can be made to be an art that way.

    Porn in many instances involves racist and sexist themes, with females being intensely despised. So it's art in the sense The Birth of a Nation is art, reshot multiple times under different circumstances and distributed online. And rectal prolapse for some of the bitches.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

  16. #16
    MrInternet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    TIM
    ILI-C
    Posts
    4,300
    Mentioned
    116 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Sure anything can be art but that doesn't mean everything is meaningful, tasteful or good art

  17. #17
    Aramas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,263
    Mentioned
    126 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    When can porn ever be considered art (and vice versa)?
    You're essentially asking for a concrete definition of porn and art. For me, I know something is art when it feels like art to me. Porn is a bit easier I guess. There's sex organs involved lol. Not necessarily sex because there's solo porn.

    I don't get any sense of art from modern porn. I have to go back a few decades and watch vintage stuff instead. Modern porn is either heavily coreographed stuff or amateur sex videos. I haven't seen anything recently that triggers my art sensor.

    There's a lot of vintage stuff that could be considered art imo. There's a degree of acting and yet also naturalness that you don't find anymore in modern stuff. There's "true feeling" in the sexuality even if the erections are not as consistent.

  18. #18
    💩 Nobody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    TIM
    POOP™
    Posts
    441
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I want to say that eroticism is art and porn is sex, but they can definitely cross over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Just rename this place Beta Central lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    The only problem socionics has given me is a propensity to analyze every relationship from the lens of socionics and I also see that it is worse in my boyfriend. Nothing makes any sense that way and it does not really solve any problems.





  19. #19
    Cool it with the anti-Grenitic remarks bucko! Grendel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Where dragons rule
    TIM
    Dark and cruel
    Posts
    2,256
    Mentioned
    149 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    my posts are art my posts are sex

  20. #20
    in the arms of false mother inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,869
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I haven't watched a ton of porn but I wish there were better plots and art on what I did see. There's really no excuse for this beyond substandard crap. It's insulting. Try harder, morons.

    PS the same goes for US Hollywood. You might as well make it porn it's so bad.

    I hate you all lol. Killing art for profit is so gamma. Eff gamma.

  21. #21
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    12,140
    Mentioned
    1229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    I haven't watched a ton of porn but I wish there were better plots and art on what I did see. There's really no excuse for this beyond substandard crap. It's insulting. Try harder, morons.

    PS the same goes for US Hollywood. You might as well make it porn it's so bad.

    I hate you all lol. Killing art for profit is so gamma. Eff gamma.
    I see an opportunity here. You could write some better plots. There has to be a market past the three-minute loop.

  22. #22
    in the arms of false mother inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,869
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I see an opportunity here. You could write some better plots. There has to be a market past the three-minute loop.
    sorry I'm being biased... No quadra is bad and you are gracious. I know you're good.

  23. #23
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    12,140
    Mentioned
    1229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    sorry I'm being biased... No quadra is bad and you are gracious. I know you're good.
    Well, thank you. But I know that I'm kind of a pervert asshole. I just try to keep it down enough to avoid jail time.

    But I really do think there is an opportunity for you to write art/porn/trash-lust/romance stories that are of a higher quality than what is out there right now. You might want to consider it.

    As for Gamma killing art for profit, yeah, we do. You aren't wrong.

  24. #24
    in the arms of false mother inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,869
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Well, thank you. But I know that I'm kind of a pervert asshole.
    not exactly. no matter my type I have 4D Fi. re-evaluate *yourself* lol.

    I think your F fcts suck and you're utterly daft. But that's not the same thing as being in any way irredeemable by gamma values. Not at all. Don't forget.

    You need a lot of help, but that's not the same thing as being "bad."

    And since I'm being so bold, I wouldn't turn down EII if I were you, if they are trying to help you with Fi. I wouldn't turn down any Fi help. Yes it may be transient, but it may lead to your ideal love with an ESI eventually.

    Don't waste your time on IEI, go for fi dom only. That's what you need. Don't be insanely picky on these fi doms bc you need help. (You were with an LSI temporarily, so I know you can be in a relationship you learn from, but focus on learning, te valuer!)

    Oh, ahem, and while I'm at it... Fi lead doesn't like Ti, so maybe it would be useful if you didn't mention socionics to them at all early on. Fi lead that is uninterested in these personality theories doesn't wanna hear about what damn Ti category they fit in according to you. They HATE Ti. Don't fuck them over with it. They'll just think you're creepy. Don't provide them with printouts about your justifications. They. Don't. Wanna. Hear. It

    This is seriously the most obvious thing in the universe.
    Last edited by inumbra; 01-17-2021 at 02:32 AM.

  25. #25
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    12,140
    Mentioned
    1229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    not exactly. no matter my type I have 4D Fi. re-evaluate *yourself* lol.

    I think your F fcts suck and you're utterly daft. But that's not the same thing as being in any way irredeemable by gamma values. Not at all. Don't forget.

    You need a lot of help, but that's not the same thing as being "bad."

    And since I'm being so bold, I wouldn't turn down EII if I were you, if they are trying to help you with Fi. I wouldn't turn down any Fi help. Yes it may be transient, but it may lead to your ideal love with an ESI eventually.

    Don't waste your time on IEI, go for fi dom only. That's what you need. Don't be insanely picky on these fi doms bc you need help. (You were with an LSI temporarily, so I know you can be in a relationship you learn from, but focus on learning, te valuer!)

    Oh, ahem, and while I'm at it... Fi lead doesn't like Ti, so maybe it would be useful if you didn't mention socionics to then at all. Fi lead that is uninterested in these personality theories doesn't wanna hear about what damn Ti category they fit in according to you. They HATE Ti. Don't fuck them over with it. They'll just think you're creepy.
    The only EII in my life is my secretary, and she's not trying to help me with Fi. She's trying to have a relationship with someone who, for the past ten years, unlike her ex-husband, actually likes and appreciates her. But as easy as it would be to get into that relationship, I would be a long time extracting myself if I do meet a great ESI. And that would be time lost to her in finding her LSE.

    Thanks for the advice on Ti and ESI's. I think you're probably right, since the EII has heard me talk about Socionics and barely tolerates it.

    I'll be more careful in the future.

  26. #26
    in the arms of false mother inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,869
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    .Thanks for the advice on Ti and ESI's. I think you're probably right, since the EII has heard me talk about Socionics and barely tolerates it.

    I'll be more careful in the future.
    I'm not trying to be mean, which is why I never commented before. I think (with my supposed 4D Fi) that you're a good person lost in relationship complications and it's hard. I don't wanna hurt you. I hope you'll be okay and find what/who you need.

    I'm sorry.

  27. #27
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    12,140
    Mentioned
    1229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    I'm not trying to be mean, which is why I never commented before. I think (with my supposed 4D Fi) that you're a good person lost in relationship complications and it's hard. I don't wanna hurt you. I hope you'll be okay and find what/who you need.

    I'm sorry.

    Um, I'm genuinely grateful for your recommendations, and thanks.

    I'm not offended by your comments. It's pretty hard to hurt the feelings of a guy with 1D Fi, and for sure it's not going to happen from advice or criticism. Now, if I fell in love with you and you rejected me, then that's a way in, but other than that, you're looking at a guy who built good armor long ago.

    Just think of me as your ordinary brick when it comes to emotional responses, and you'll be zeroed in. Nothing to worry about.

  28. #28
    💩 Nobody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    TIM
    POOP™
    Posts
    441
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Adam?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Just rename this place Beta Central lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightWilderness View Post
    The only problem socionics has given me is a propensity to analyze every relationship from the lens of socionics and I also see that it is worse in my boyfriend. Nothing makes any sense that way and it does not really solve any problems.





  29. #29
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    12,140
    Mentioned
    1229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    ^ You got it, @Nobody.

  30. #30
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    12,140
    Mentioned
    1229 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    An update on the subject of "Porn Considered As Art", from the standpoint of a literary prostitute:

    https://aeon.co/essays/how-i-joined-...tica-for-cash?

  31. #31
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    3,310
    Mentioned
    275 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don’t understand the distinction. I’d say porn is art; just typically badly made art.

  32. #32
    Lincatrope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    55
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    When can porn ever be considered art (and vice versa)?
    The first time I thought about it was years ago when I clicked on a Fellucia Blows video. It was the first time I watched porn trying to be some kind of art. She was redhead back then, I guess looking up real quick, she is blonde now. Or maybe it's some other girl I'm not sure. It was interesting though.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •