Which type do you think it is the hardest to get to know?

[lkdhf qkb]

Are you sure you are not mixing democatic quadras with central quadras?

But yes I will not show my cards unless I know what others are after. In case I'm unsure I will block their inquires with obfuscation or test their waters with lies in order to form a picture from different angles.

Maybe I couldn't really get my point across, but no; my thoughts are a bit muddled on this. It's true that it sounded a bit like centrals, especially Gamma.

Keyword here is "practical interests". Alphas often don't form groups based on those, but they still have an individualist streak and the awareness of how their own and other's practical interests collide so that they discern who they can count on and who not, from situation to situation.

This capacity is more or less lost in NFs, who furthermore can't deal with the external world that well. They have to either reveal their interests to loved ones(delta NFs) or pledge allegiance to some authorities(beta NFs) and count on the goodwill of those(STs) to figure how to provide for themselves(=collectivism). The "every man for himself" model of democratic quadras is unsettling for aristocratic quadras.

EDIT: sometimes I see dogmatic alphas that say stuff like "I only use Linux" or "I chose my bank because it invests in fairtrade stocks" and judge you if you're different. They have these practical norms and values that they judge as better than yours. Those "democratic" antics or puffs don't exist in aristocratic quadras.

[Exodus]

SLIs and their feelings/motivations are extremely easy to understand for me. It is true they are kind of private and everything else you said but I can easily suss out their unique human signature if you will, with Fi it’s also easy to form that bond although with an SLI it’s just ephemeral in my case. But yeah anyways, they are not necessarily opaque to me.

If they are "extremely easy to understand" for you - then which types are more difficult to understand? And why?

[Aramas]

Interesting. Often aristocratic quadras (mainly the betas) get the blame for dictatorships, but your description also paints the potentially negative side of democratic quadras on groups and society, from an aristocratic quadra perspective.

Democracy descends into the mob, led by the demagogue. Democratic dictatorship.

[Aramas]

Ni dom maybe hard to understand but I think they have no problem to show some of their "easy to understand - easy to get along with" sides to others (mostly INFp), or talk much about something they feel interest, give advice to others. Hard to understand does'nt mean hard to get along with. So people ok with their limit version of "understand" to the INxp.

ISTp is more of a thick wall, but I think they just shy : ))

They might not think about themselves that much. Like I said in the other post, lack of Ni. You have to get to know them by how they act, because they can't tell you that much themselves. They're not focused on Ni self-awareness so much as following Si impulse.

[The Reality Denialist]

Extremely easy to understand assuming they want to connect with me, of course.

difficult to understand? Hmm Fi polrs perhaps. I never get any headway trying to get close to them and if anything it seems to irritate them, which kinda scares me enough to put me off. If I can’t get close to them I guess I can’t particularly know them.

Fi types usually sound like (in my ears): On the 4th of December 2017 there was a house left to you when you first went out. What was its color? How many steps you took after you realized it? In other words: Could you give me specifics to an arbitrary process that can be unfolded by itself with parameters that seem very meaningless and might be reconstructed? An inquiry about the experience sounds like a cross examination because I'd use it like as a last straw in my toolbox.

^And then I give an answer like that or try to play along but it is hard.

[Djinn]

I'm not sure we're understanding each other here...

SLIs in particular are not prone to expressing their inner hopes, desires, motivations, opinions, etc. You can essentially think of this as a trait most exemplified by EIEs, who are prone to expressing these things quite a lot and in an attention-grabbing manner. That's Fe. An SLI is not likely to talk about themselves (or anything really) at any length.



It is true, an SLI (and other Fi valuers to different extents) are more likely to be nonverbally expressive and let their actions speak for themselves.

But if someone never explains themselves to you, and moreover acts in a way that is unobtrusive and more responsive to the situation at hand than in a uniquely personal manner, then it is going to be hard to discern what makes them them. So no, I don't think actions are really enough. People often describe their own motivations in ways I never would have guessed.

I see, I see.

I realize I am detaching from socionics a bit too much here. All-in-all, I'm glad you talked to me about it, so thank you!

[lkdhf qkb]

OK, let's make a list of Beta dictators and a list of Gamma dictators.

Please be my gest

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

"Hard to get to know" the person could just be introverted and/or shy. Lots of people are guarded because in the real harsh gritty non-Disney real world- people exploit and bully/ridicule vulnerabilities so I mean lots of times people are just trying to protect themselves. Why does a person want to "know" somebody else anyway? And what is it do they want to know? I mean it's not always for fluffy and innocent romance right. They could just be trying to use information to ruin the other person. Maybe the person deserves to be ruined but ime it's often people exaggerating or even fabricating somebody else's faults to make themselves seem superior and like "good" - so then they are the ones that deserve to be rewarded.

It's such a vague thing to me I mean- the intentions of what you know and why you want to know it matters more to me. Most people can't really handle other people's Shadow sides unless they are romantically attracted to them- and Twu Wuv is naturally rare.

[eiemo]

I would say that ILIs are hardest to get to know. Their Ni and their Fe PoLR can make them hard to get to know. I would say that SLI is right up there, though.

[Teddy]

What's your type?

--If you're a heavy Ti type, socializing maybe tough because you're always stuck in your head, analyzing and reasoning
--If you have low Fe, you may have trouble expressing appropriate social cues/responses
--If you have low Fi, you may have difficulty expressing how you truly feel about someone/something

Fortunately, like anything in life, you can rebalance yourself and learn to open yourself up, through practice - don't let types be a barrier

The feeling like you're blocking people out - it's all in your head. Maybe you feel judged because you don't feel like you belong, and people are feeling that because "what you feel, they feel." They'll pick up on your insecure vibe and go "huh, I didn’t really have an opinion about this guy either way, he seemed like a nice enough dude…but he’s giving off this other vibe, hmmm" and it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I would not overthink it and just bulldoze through and practice having convos / opening up.

Say you're at some kind of event, choose some easy things to talk about, such as work.

If you don’t want to talk topics like work, lead the conversation elsewhere. If a chick is like “What do you do?” Just go “Oh god, please, I don’t want to talk about work tonight. Tell me something interesting about yourself that isn’t job related…have you ever (blah)?”

“Oh, I work in the stuffy boring corporate world. I’ve been pushing papers all week watching my soul slowly die and my girl was like “come out to this event with me” so I figured ya, why not I’ve never been to one of these before. Everyone is all done up and friendly, it’s awesome. ”

If you’re a janitor, be proud and enthusiastic about it if it comes up. And give other people sincere props for their accomplishments/jobs instead of resenting them. Spread value, good emotions, etc. and act as if you expect people to be friendly and they’ll “feel what you feel” and reciprocate.

Again it is 100% in your head. You’re letting people overwhelm and intimidate you. It’s all an illusion. Eeeeeeeveryone is full of shit and putting up a fake “front” persona/facade to try to impress each other. Most of those people don’t act that way when they’re like, with their family opening Xmas presents or with their childhood best buddies having a beer and watching a football game. The environment intimidates them, so they try to put on a front to seem like they belong there.

I would make it goal to try and push your comfort zone to open up more and more, every sociotype is capable of this

Sorry for my very late reply. I had a very long exam session and today I finished my last hard exam so I am finally able to relax. I know I have low Fe and Fi. In social situations I have difficulties with the forms of greetings to the point that people crack jokes about it. In my country we have different forms of greetings depending on age, gender etc. I don't feel bad about it lmao but I simply am unable to change it. I'd rather study some hard topic instead of focusing on something that irrelevant IMO. As for feeling expression, I worked with my therapist about this for several months. I do indeed have an issue with it but now I am able to know what I feel and I started slowly expressing if I feel uncomfortable or other things, even love. It's just that I don't think about these things often. I am mainly focused on my studies but sometimes I find myself thinking about what I want to do next and what is my final goal overall. I don't know what my type is (I had some versions of it in my mind) but I know for a fact that my flat mate helped me understand these social things better and why some people are acting a certain way. For me to figure that out I have to think about all my psychological knowledge and put it piece by piece and it becomes some very complicated stuff that she just says in 3 to 4 words.

Thank you very much for taking your time and also for your advice. I appreciate your reply.

[Lolita]

I think Fe egos are hardest to know because they don’t know what they themselves feel (due to Fe) and they rely on external validations. I may enjoy torturing my ESI friends with insults but they take it really well and throw it back at me (which I love and find it amusing). Fe egos are just fake, manipulative, image oriented (instead of substance focus), indirect, conflict avoidant and always have to be control freaks of how they effect their environment, flakey, attention seeking. EIEs prone to histrionics, legit cluster B histrionic disorder. Read the symptom characteristics and it sounds like EIE.