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Thread: Synesthesia and Si

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    @Tallmo I visualize summer as being on top and winter as being on the bottom!
    It surprised me how you visualize time as a line that seems to curve arbitrarily.
    For me there is some weird perspective involved, but in the end it's linear and goes left --> right, unlike you.



    I see it similarly. It's interesting how your eye floats on Beta. Mine does too, except I belong to Beta. When I bring my eye to Delta I feel very far away and like I'm near the edge of the reel. Even though though technically Alpha is after Delta. But for some reason my mind doesn't repeat it like how it repeats Monday after Sunday and January after December. I don't feel on the edge with Alpha because of the direction Alpha->Beta->Gamma->Delta.

    Alpha
    Beta
    Gamma
    Delta
    But it's really because those are the colors I see A, B, C, and D as.
    What? Am I the only sane person here? No offense LOL
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    What? Am I the only sane person here? No offense LOL
    Bold of you to assume there's objective sanity and that you possess it.

  3. #43
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    It's interesting that you say "circle of the year". I had never imagined a year like a circle. I would probably imagine part of the year being a certain position in a straight line leading to the target or something like that.
    There are many examples of year circle synesthesia
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Numbers are abstract. These visualizations are a way to make them concrete. So I see it as weak, not strong N. They are related to ability to grasp things spatially though.
    Very interesting! Your first post already made me wonder:
    - why it was purely abstract concepts that you tried to mentally represent?
    - why did you use linguistic symbols instead of their related contents?(the date "2020" or the number "2" as signs, not as a year with specific contents or a quantity)


    Made some research. A more appropriate term for this mental phenomena is "ideasthesia". From the wikipedia article:

    While "synesthesia" meaning "union of senses" implies the association of two sensory elements with little connection to the cognitive level, empirical evidence indicated that most phenomena linked to synesthesia are in fact induced by semantic representations. That is, the linguistic meaning of the stimulus is what is important rather than its sensory properties. In other words, while synesthesia presumes that both the trigger (inducer) and the resulting experience (concurrent) are of sensory nature, ideasthesia presumes that only the resulting experience is of sensory nature while the trigger is semantic.
    It might be linked to weak intuition as you suggest. When I really think of numbers, I don't picture anything. What I perceive is more a feeling of the essence of numbers, beyond their representation or pronunciation, basically beyond language, exemples or space. A pure "mental intuition" of quantity. I think that's what Plato talks about in his theory of Forms...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybel View Post
    You’re religious right? I know no two people have the same spiritual experiences but personally I genuinely believe that demons exist. When you abuse and inflict trauma you pass on your demons onto others, sometimes a whole family or nation can be caught in one’s grasp. My experience with mental illness has caused actual physical pain sometimes, or like I’m being choked and something’s sitting on my lungs, what else could cause it? I have researched extensively into self-help stuff, the normal stuff helps a lot but it doesn’t get to the heart of the neuroses... so that taunting inner critic, I cannot help but personify it. It is just a way of seeing the world.
    I believe they exist, too. Our biology and life experiences (early traumas, conditioning, family history) have a lot to do with our mental state, but there is real evil that works against us and uses those things against us.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    I believe they exist, too. Our biology and life experiences (early traumas, conditioning, family history) have a lot to do with our mental state, but there is real evil that works against us and uses those things against us.
    This is interesting. Is this something you experience first hand, or is it an opinion you have developed? Or do you have a feeling/intuition for what demons are and that they affect us. It would be nice to know more.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    This is interesting. Is this something you experience first hand, or is it an opinion you have developed? Or do you have a feeling/intuition for what demons are and that they affect us. It would be nice to know more.
    Hey, yes, it's a belief I have based in my faith in God, being a Christian, etc. As a finite being, it's hard to say what exactly is influenced by the supernatural and what isn't. I definitely don't have many answers for that and am not always sure the extent to which the supernatural is impacting a situation, I just believe it is. I also try to avoid falling into the superstitious trap of seeing the devil in everything, since I think that's often a distraction from actually dealing with the situation.

    In general, Western society is very skeptical around this topic and tends to find natural explanations for most things rather than acknowledging the influence of something supernatural. However, I don't think science and the supernatural contradict each other at all.

    I also think the choices we make open the door to being more or less influenced by evil.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    Hey, yes, it's a belief I have based in my faith in God, being a Christian, etc. As a finite being, it's hard to say what exactly is influenced by the supernatural and what isn't. I definitely don't have many answers for that and am not always sure the extent to which the supernatural is impacting a situation, I just believe it is. I also try to avoid falling into the superstitious trap of seeing the devil in everything, since I think that's often a distraction from actually dealing with the situation.

    In general, Western society is very skeptical around this topic and tends to find natural explanations for most things rather than acknowledging the influence of something supernatural. However, I don't think science and the supernatural contradict each other at all.

    I also think the choices we make open the door to being more or less influenced by evil.
    thanks, so maybe based on faith and personal "philosophy", worldview. Not on actually sensing demons in real situations? (I think there are people who have these concrete perceptions of an evil demon present)

    I'm also wondering if as an Ni type the concept "demon" / evil has more depth and meaning for you than for a non-Ni person.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    thanks, so maybe based on faith and personal "philosophy", worldview. Not on actually sensing demons in real situations? (I think there are people who have these concrete perceptions of an evil demon present)
    Ah, no, I've had many experiences and times where I've sensed demonic forces, although not as much to do with my actual Se/Si senses like having a vision or hearing something or smelling something (I've heard of people having more concrete experiences like this). I have experienced deep fatigue after encounters with what I view as evil, though.

    It's more like feeling attacked or oppressed in my mind and emotions, psychically or in my spirit. Certain environments and people feel spiritually oppressive to me, like I have to leave and get out. It's interesting to view it through the lens of type, because I could see different types feeling oppression in different ways.

    I'm also wondering if as an Ni type the concept "demon" / evil has more depth and meaning for you than for a non-Ni person.
    Now I'm wondering, too! Good question.

    Your question really got me thinking about the ways different types would experience or acknowledge the presence of evil/supernatural things. And how my experiences line up very well with being Ni/Fe in nature.

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    Ime, sensors are more aware of manifestations perceived through 5 senses, while N types, especially Ni ethicals are more influenced through their emotions or mental world. Thought, the level or strenght of manifestations depends usually on how much access or rights someone has given to the entity. Their rights comes from the laws and hierarchy from the spiritual world. God and Jesus laws are above any demonic spirit they can't operate freely. Thats why is a shame when ppl don't believe in God and don't submit to law, because even demons know who Jesus is. But most ppl choose to remain ignorant, blind and deaf to superior and most important realities.
    Last edited by Hope; 11-30-2020 at 07:59 PM.

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    I think most of my non earthly imaginings are connected to Ni, most of them are purposeful. There’s this Tibetan thing where you imagine what your insecurities look like, feel like, smell like, until it appears before you as a persona or form of some kind. Very Ni heavy. I am honestly not sure if it’s all just bullshit sometimes. I do not think I understand the stuff as in depth as a Ni person can. Esoterica just hurts my brain after a while. For me improving Ni is not about improving time management skills or predicting the future, don’t give two shits about that. It is more about deepening the inner spiritual world, something I see as very important. Or is that Ne? idk. Someone once said that role is just misguided attempt to integrate DS into ego, believe there is truth in that.

    edit: very attracted to Ni media, but not Ni people. unsure why. and only in certain amounts at a time. the bizarre and mysterious nature is very attractive. must prod and see what is behind the veil, except i am clumsy and blind and unsure of what the veil looks like exactly.
    Last edited by Tzuyu; 11-30-2020 at 10:29 PM.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybel View Post
    I think most of my non earthly imaginings are connected to Ni, most of them are purposeful. There’s this Tibetan thing where you imagine what your insecurities look like, feel like, smell like, until it appears before you as a persona or form of some kind. Very Ni heavy. I am honestly not sure if it’s all just bullshit sometimes. I do not think I understand the stuff as in depth as a Ni person can. Esoterica just hurts my brain after a while. For me improving Ni is not about improving time management skills or predicting the future, don’t give two shits about that. It is more about deepening the inner spiritual world, something I see as very important. Or is that Ne? idk. Someone once said that role is just misguided attempt to integrate DS into ego, believe there is truth in that.

    edit: very attracted to Ni media, but not Ni people. unsure why. and only in certain amounts at a time. the bizarre and mysterious nature is very attractive. must prod and see what is behind the veil, except i am clumsy and blind and unsure of what the veil looks like exactly.
    Is that really Ni? I'm just asking because as a very introspective person, it absolutely doesn't strike me as the type of thing I'd be inclined to do or find the value in doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Is that really Ni? I'm just asking because as a very introspective person, it absolutely doesn't strike me as the type of thing I'd be inclined to do or find the value in doing.
    Meh. I just automatically put weird religious stuff and esoteric imagery into Ni voodoo. Also trippy horror films and Lain. Stuff that has to do with occult symbolism, tapping into the collective unconscious BS, y'know. A lot of people in those communities are Ni doms, but not every Ni dom is into that stuff. It's like how I hate cooking even though I could be very good at it if I tried. There are quite a bit atheist Ni doms, stereotypes are bad agreed. It just has a lot of potential for Ni people I think. Also keep in mind I'm really desperate when it comes to mental self improvement therapy, I assume other people do it out of desperation too, it drives you to do crazy stuff sometimes. If I was a normal person I very much doubt I would care or know about this crap.




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    All this demon talk reminded me of something.

    Occultist demon casting is ritualistic or repetitive. An attempt to implant an idea deep in your mind for later manifestations of the entity. The entitiy is probably your own brain.

    You can do the same in Socionics.

    Are you curious about Se, Ne, Si, IEs not in your Ego? Would you like to experience them? Apply the same principle. It exists by other names in esoteric tradition: “meditate on the color White and the wind”, “meditate on the god Mars”, whatever. Meditations that are to awaken the dormant side of your brain related to cognition/personality. So you read about Ni, for example. A couple of times. Several. Obsess over it. Most importantly, make the decision to experience Ni. It will happen.

    This of course will not change your Ego: the brain can only take so much and the experience will be slightly tainted, a times as if you were under the influence, even. But it’s a peek.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusal View Post
    Occultist demon casting is ritualistic or repetitive. An attempt to implant an idea deep in your mind for later manifestations of the entity. The entitiy is probably your own brain.
    Hmmm. You make it sound as if you think it was brainwashing, but it doesn't have to be necessarily. Most people believe in supernatural entities out of their free will. Maybe you were talking about occultist sects where beliefs are indoctrinated?
    Demons similarly to socionic IE are probably inherent to our cognition though, I agree

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    Of interest. Wikisocion attributes synaesthesia more strongly to dynamic types.

    Dynamics often develop a psycho-physiological phenomenon known as 'synaesthesia'—a complex relationship between the sensory modalities that results in confluence between them. Synchronized perception of color, sound, smell, and taste as a single complex gives Dynamics a special vividness in their perception of reality. Sometimes fusion of sensation is developed to such an extent that internal images appear indistinguishable from reality. For Statics, given the discreteness of their mental apparatus, regular synesthesia is usually a rare exception or the result of special training.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

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    Funny expressions such as he speaks "brown" and sings "yellow" sound much more synesthetic than automated mental responses (symbolic value being rather low in those descriptions).
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