I thought N>C according to his body language and innotation but the context of his video suggests H. He thought he was a F type and based on people who got typed LSI-H on this forum, we can say that they tend to think themselves as F, no idea why.Originally Posted by Rusal
Maybe they are most likely to get a typing from him, as they see him as top of the Aristocratic socionics chain of command......
DarkAngelFireWolf69: askjdhaksdhaksjdhskdjskdjskdjksjdajlsjaldkjlskajdl kjlasjdlkjas
Betas:
Another Beta lol
To me he looks intuitive, ILI or LII-Ti, although LSI is not an awful typing. At least he typed that SLE right but this one was easy.
That typing is easy to agree with.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Some months ago, our beloved @Sol tried to correct one of DarkAngelFireWolf69's typing for LSI and retyped the person ILE. He probably has a wrong conception of what an ILE is because he doesn't understand how to apply DNCH for the types or any subtyping for that matter. Most likely he has consistently been typing chatty and ‘creative’ LSIs as ILE, since some can seem intuitive (not quite there physically for a Se ego) at first sight and will happily jump into real ILEs' chaotic chatter if they are around. But ILEs are lighter. Steve Wozniak is one and if you take any of the videos he is in and cancel the sound it feels as if you're watching an SEI-Fe. There's no ‘upmh’ in their aura, unlike Kristen and the young man in this recent video. It becomes apparent in an academic setting for example when (a particular subtype of) LSI is having an exchange with ILE and an EIE professor enters the room and asks them to be quiet and get to work, the LSI will respond quicker to the request first because they secretly desire some order and second, they find that the request and the manner in which is put forward by the EIE is acceptable. One can actually witness how Betas have it easier navigating established institutions. There is no shutting up the ILE. I'm glad our guy decided to make this video as I can see the resemblance with the LSIs I've met and he shares nonverbals with Elon Musk on the occasions that I've seen him in a similar setting (looking past or to the camera, no interaction with another person), who was also typed LSI by G. In turn, Musk does some things LSI males do, minor things for example tied to a play-pretend chivalry like the reverence he does at the beginning of this video (below); once I asked a LSI male (whom I had previously typed) to hand me something and when I look up he makes reverence and presents the object I asked him to bring over. The LIIs I've met tend to be a bit stiffer even if polite.
Incidentally, I've just remembered that I emailed DarkAngelFireWolf69’s people about the possibility of getting a typing session and commented that it'd be nice to have more celebrities typed as it'd maybe attract more people (the SLI category on his website is empty). The reply I got is that each typing takes up a good portion of DarkAngelFireWolf69's time as he goes through the person’s history. So it's nice to know he prefers his gallery to sit empty or half-empty rather than guess-type a random youtuber to stimulate his business. I don't think his typings are incorrect and that we suffer from any lightness on his part.
Last edited by Rusal; 11-15-2021 at 07:00 AM.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
@wesleh00 I've moved the video to this thread to make it easier to keep track of people G. has typed.
OK. I watched more of the video. G.u.lenko is probably right: LSI. I don't see INTj as Liam proposed. LII is a very specific kind of animal in Socionics. More than any other type they can eloquently make classifications, describe procedures, etc. A common feature with them is that if they can watch a video or read about how ice-cream is made or about physics, and they can tell what they've read or watched back to you step by step, figure by figure in more or less the same articulate manner in both cases and with overall decent fidelity to the data. I believe one of their descriptions even says that they illuminate darkness as if they were lightning. They do this with a type of speech most of us would link to a presentation with an audience: it a way that's very natural to them, they speaks as if they were reading bullet points on a document, with good and, sometimes, sufficiently detailed, information, even with only seconds to collect their mind beforehand. It comes easy to most of them. When Liam says at 17:32'Literally before this interview I was planning what I was gonna say (...) but it always, when it comes out it’s bwabwabwa”, well, that's a very un-LII thing to say and what's more he's implying this is not uncommon with him (as it would be for many who are not Ti+Ne). On top of that, because they absorb text and info rather quickly, an LII would’ve been more inclined to read about their new interest, Socionics, and then describe how they think of themselves by naming functions, describing them, contrasting and comparing. They still could get everything wrong, of course, but the inclination to verbally establish a coherent framework would be there. And it comes out in a way that makes the impression that they love the sound of their voice and that they also love explaining at length.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
He's way more fluid, emotionally communicative and easygoing than any LSI I've ever seen. Maybe C-SEI-Fe.
And that's exactly G.u.lenko's description of LSI-C.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
And that's my biggest issue with his typings, he uses his subtype system to create entirely new types that don't have much in common with basic 16 types, maybe he's so in love with the system he created he forgets that the first thing you should do is to properly identify a type and then think of a subtype, and he's doing it the other way around.
LSI is known as an inspector. Base Ti means being focused on schematic thinking, analyzing all these building blocks behind systems and constructing them, seeing reality as a web of logical formulas, willing to have these systems stable and well defined according to logical rules. Creative Se means applying that systemic thinking to organize concrete reality, seeing the world as it is, focused on realistic outputs, to have a clear impact on something, to gather info by exploring your surroundings. It's not the best description probably, but I mean there's this core of being an LSI that every LSI should have and then there are subtypes. I don't see any of this in many people he typed LSI. He types people who are known of being an exact opposite of that as LSIs. Intuitive innovators who push boundaries of what's possible, like Elon Musk for example.
Not at all. One of the coolest persons I know is an ESE. Before I read Gvlenko's book I recognized her as D or C subtype of ESE from the more diffuse text on DCNH. Always the one to be in charge of organizing celebrations, very smart and quick when dealing with tangible reality, with her it's true what Gvuleko wrote that the ‘soul’ of the gathering also leaves when she has to. She has a Law degree but she is also passionate about cooking and pre-pandemic she was planning to travel to Europe to study under the best. I always thought that, despite her degree, she would've been a great hotel manager or staff manager on a cruise. It was later that I read the description of C subtype that I recognized her but my conclusion matched what’s written before I even set my eyes to paper. Or screen. DarkAngelFireWolf69 is not changing ESE nor the rest of the types. It's more the case of people not having a complete picture of the types.
By typing Liam SEI-Fe I feel it's you who is going a bit against the type. SEI-Fe men are something different from that video. We've all recognized them unconsciously, somehow, even by seeing them in the street. Picture the married man in beige pants, a relaxed walk and with a lazy smile on his face and happy, rosy cheeks, cooperative in the household and understanding. A very soft person and I exaggerate but you get the point. When you see them together, something in you just knows they are in a very egalitarian and loving relationship; don't forget Alphas are recognized as more horizontal. Liam does not appear violent or anything but it's a far cry from that picture. If you're going to add the ‘Creative’, you'll still use that SEI template. I don't see it and neither did DarkAngelFireWolf69 when Liam answered all those questions for him.
What do you think you gathered from those short videos? You also rejected the second to last typing, the LSI that in your opinion was actually LII, I think. Now, watch Berdutina's example of LSI before Gvlenko published his book with the subtypes and his typing videos were a thing. Does the young man comply with your idea of TiSe? Did Gvlenko and people like Berdutina who live in the hotspot of Socionics suddenly forgot how to do Socionics or is it that seeing the person, interviewing them reveal things lost in translation from the theory to the practice in the case of aficionados? I keep saying I see people, children, like that young man and that you can only try to push the ‘LII’ or ‘ILE’ label on them a certain amount of times before you realize you're in front of someone with Inspector-like traits. And it gets more obvious when you interact with LII, ILE and LSI (logical subtype, as in this case) at the same time. Remember, LSI encompasses this young man as well as people like Steven Seagal (now I know who Liam reminded me of: young Steven Segal, also LSI). Seagal travelled to Japan when he was young to get into martial arts and find some discipline in it; bespectacled, logical LSIs might find it in school and they don't let their fancy or tongue take flight they way ILEs do nor say the things ILEs say, they're more more stoic and deal with a more regimented reality so you'll find EIEs orbit them whether they practice Aikido in a dojo or they are engineers building a bridge. There's not much else I can do because I cannot transfer my experience to you which is why what Gvlenko does is not heresy to me, but you can do something yourself by trying to type people near you, see if they have an equivalent in the subtypes as described in Gvlenko's book, then contrast and compare with Talanov’s charts from 2011 if you know the person well enough, use Filatova etc. But, more importantly I know what some little LSIs are capable of reading or dreaming, recognize the way they speak and move. Or you can believe Gvlenko hit his head the night before he typed Musk, since you mention him, and got lucky many months later when Grimes kind of obliquely made his typing a not so crazy one. Remember, that in Musk's case vertical line of command had also been imposed for a long time on his first wife, so it's natural with him not an intuitive's hysterical shout for power because he's read too many MGTOW forums, and if we're talking of a constant then it's in the psyche and with Se being static then it feeds back to possible behavior as an Aggressor type. Also, read the book: what you said above is not completely lost because LSI-C are described as apt to be firefighters and in work in the emergency services, maybe that's what you mean.
Alright. Hold on.
There's no one, no one that's pushed for the concept of specialization like DarkAngelFireWolf69 has.
You'll find it explicitly in his book.
You'll see it in the exchanges we had here about his feedback to forum members he typed when he commended sensors to the domestic sphere.
You’'l read it when he stated that EIE and ILI are behind society's advancements.
And if you go to his website, his NT section is filled with personalities like Gates or Bezos. DarkAngelFireWolf69 is not withdrawing what he previously claimed but, just as my ESE friend loves law, with Musk he's saying “Hey, there's an ESE in a law firm”. And that alone doesn't undo ESE. In the end, I know your reticence is due to a lack of interaction with (certain) types so you can't get a real feel of lines that divide them even if you think you have them more or less figured out. So Gvlenko's diagnostics will continue to puzzle you. Whatcha gonna do.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
"inspector" is a made-up label for this type. It's not some law of nature, just an approximation for a common social role of this type, especially for the normalizing subtype LSI.
A talent for technical fields, leadership. Ability to push through difficulties. I don't think LSI typing is in any way strange for Elon Musk.He types people who are known of being an exact opposite of that as LSIs. Intuitive innovators who push boundaries of what's possible, like Elon Musk for example.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
It's extremely strange because the guy is a very obvious extrovert in every sense of the word and if you read Jung's description of the introverted thinking type, it's absolutely nothing like Musk...
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I have to agree, LSI is a strange typing for him.
There is now a 15% discount when you get typed by Dr. DarkAngelFireWolf69.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Business must be slow.
Usually, in a good business, you are raising prices.
DarkAngelFireWolf69 is making a big mistake here. My father, who set the price on the products his company made, told me "Never compete on price." He meant, never try to compete with your competitors by lowering your price. Offer better service to your customers, or more features, or better terms, but do not lower your prices. It's the fast road to ruin.
I've followed his advice, and it's worked out very well for my company.
I respect DarkAngelFireWolf69 and his system, but I'm not gonna waste my money to get type....
ok, but it's pretty common for a business to sometimes offer discounts, isn't it? Are they all doing it wrong?
Anyway, I thought it was funny that they offer this discount. A while back people seemed to have problems contacting him to get typed. Maybe he will be more responsive now?
I know my type 100%, but it would be very interesting to get his observations.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Nah I don't think such a discount is weird, I'd see it as something that is for the early year as I've noticed a lot of businesses do their yearly discounts in the early months. I might be wrong though and this is entirely something else, but I don't see how is it a bad thing.
Also, would love to get some insight from DarkAngelFireWolf69 on my typing. Now I'm pretty sure I'm IEI, but some people here still suggest SEI or even LII. His test also typed me IEI, but it would be fun to get a 'hands on' experience with him.
Formerly known as littleblackcloud!
I know one in particular that is just like him but I can't share more because he's a minor (not a physical clone so photos wouldn't do much). Jolty little fellow but still within the logical subtype.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
It's possible, I'm not saying it's not, but I agree with what FDG said about Musk's personality seeming different from Jung's introverted thinker. Then again, we mostly know Musk's public persona.
Back when I first met the boy I considered LSE precisely because of similar reasons but LSI ended overriding the intention. Don't ask me why but it's still possible not to appear inward-focused and mantain LSI template. But there are moments when they do look as if scanning inside.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
As we know, LSI can be in very different positions successfully, and they can definitely be leaders. I am wondering what exactly it is that you don't think fits with Jung's Ti description? Ti is basically abstract thinking, a "logical idea", not just in LII but also in LSI. I'm not trying to push the LSI typing of Musk, but I don't see anything particular against it.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
I understand, I guess I'm just focused on Musk's public image/persona, that of a man into objective systems, including business, inventions that work for people, and so forth. It would seem that such a man would be more apt to use logic oriented towards objective systems rather than the subjectivity of Ti. But that is mostly based on the image I have of him. I realize that when you get down deeper into the nuances, he could very well have subjective logic as his lead function and still be into the things I mentioned. I agree that LSIs can be leaders, but he seems quite visionary and that's another thing.
I'm not opposed to the LSI typing, though I would have thought LIE would make more sense.
I think it totally depends on who your customers are. Ideally, from a business standpoint, you want richer customers so offering a better service makes sense (as opposed to lowering your price). Though I think there are businesses that cater to poorer segments of the population and do well, in my experience in retail often these customers don't want to invest in quality, they prefer to buy again for cheap.
Also lowering retail prices below the provider's price, while illegal, is obviously a good strategy to knock out the competition. If it were legal lots of people would do it, Amazon has hurt the competition greatly by selling very cheap, albeit legally (I presume). I think it's viable depending on who your customer-base is. I think your dad's advice is valid too, again, depending on who your customer base is. But that's just my 2c.
I personally don't think DarkAngelFireWolf69's service is low-quality, though I understand why it's controversial, esp. in the West where we/many have a more "positivistic" approach to typing.
Yes, LIE makes sense also.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Why can’t people understand that? Why do the smartasses try and overcomplicate the definition of Ti? I was talking to one those the other day and basically he gave me the LII (heavily tainted with Ne) version of the Ti definition, and totally disregarded the fact that LSI also have Ti (which works in conjunction with Se).
No, I saw a lot of intuitive traits by VI, closest to LII. I don't see how showing another socionist making doubtful typing justifies Gvlenko's typings or proves him staying close to classic socionics or proves their typings correct and mine wrong or whatever you meant by that, that's cherry picking.
Unless you find a way to prove it, we don't know which typing is correct. Let's agree to disagreeI keep saying I see people, children, like that young man and that you can only try to push the ‘LII’ or ‘ILE’ label on them a certain amount of times before you realize you're in front of someone with Inspector-like traits.
I don't know much about Elon Musk, but his eyes seem to have the Se sharpness of Beta ST, and have no Fi.... Even though he's not a good speaker, I can sense that aggressor confident.
Gates doesn't have that aggressor vibe.
He's LIE.
I'd figured you'd think that. Berdutina is the second person that resides where Socionics is most popular and that does this for a living, working face to face with subjects miles from where DarkAngelFireWolf69 is that you disagree with because she, as he, types LII “wrong”. It's better to reconsider than to compound misconceptions, I'd say, since it's harder for them to make mistakes whereas it's easier for a dabbler, especially if they seem invested in believing what they think is reality to other people (like what you said about DarkAngelFireWolf69 writing subtypes first before focusing on types and I told you I recognized an ESE C or D before reading his book or other people here that have claimed similar experiences, etc.). In the end, I'm happy DarkAngelFireWolf69 and people like Berdutina show signs of facing a similar direction as it shows an uniformity that resonantes with my experiences and that gives you a glimpse of what Socionics is really about in its birthplace and in case it spreads out. And remember, no one babbles more about staying true to ‘classic Socionics’ here than the person that still has to explain his Alpha typing for the dickest man in a relationship since ‘classic socionists’ wrote about Beta STs. Regarding that guy's nonverbals, I don't know if they're particularly LII: the last person somehow similar to him I made a mental note under LSI because with extended interaction I gave up on TiNe for him. Here's an LII if you're interested.
That's OK. The topic has been exhausted. Talk to you next time the Doctor types a person.
Last edited by Rusal; 01-07-2022 at 06:34 AM.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
I wish da dactah would type more people. I really want some new ones.
Have you gotten typed, Rusal?
I've gotten the itch every now and then but everytime I think of answers to the questions realization about my type hits me over and over. Maybe I'll do it one day in the name of sCiEncE but I'm satified with what I've read. His book is good for further clarity but he wrote about the subtypes with the intent of presenting a general sketch of a person, in many cases subtype describes the individual around 70% and the rest should be found scattered here and there in the remaining 3 subtypes plus some personal attributes unique to every case. The best way to put it to the test is just select a person you know extremely well and of whose type you are certain of and then proceed to locate subtype in the type's section of the book. Do it multiple times and you'll realize "classic socionics" has not been tarnished in its core, unless the reader assumes that if someone's speech is fluid then that somehow means they are a Si lead that is going to supply the ILE with concreteness related to bodily perceptions, then maybe the problem with classic socionics actually dwells with the reader and DarkAngelFireWolf69 can't help with that. EDIT: more typing videos would be ok but there's a bunch of content with DarkAngelFireWolf69's workshops and presentations that no one is bothering to give proper subtitles to, that also sounds interesting.
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I was surprised by my result, and if I had gone with the test and information in his book, I would have thought I was Ni lead, or possibly EIE or LIE. I'm not saying you should get typed, especially if money is an issue, and it is fairly expensive, and if you're content with what you know then maybe there's no need.
Still, in my case, I found it useful, I tried dating Fi leads and was pretty unimpressed by our chemistry, though they were ok. I dated an ESE and all around feel much better around Fe leads than Fi or Se leads, the latter being somewhat stressful even if SEEs can be pleasant to be around, too. But I myself would have never thought of Ti lead for myself because to me, Ti was a deeply structured and organised form of thinking, which I don't have. I struggled with DarkAngelFireWolf69's typing of me for a while and while his arguments have merit, the thing I find most surprising is that Fe leads make me feel good and make me want to be around them more.
^ @Uncle Ave, I like Fe-leads too, for short exposures. I just admire the hell out of two IEI-Fe's whom I know.
Long term, not so compatible.
Hm, well it just feels like Fe leads grow on me. But liking and admiring are not the same thing as feeling good around someone, though perhaps that is what you meant.And feeling good is not the same thing as someone growing on you. I feel good around SEEs for example, but for some reason I feel less compelled to orient myself towards them for a long term relationship. Though I don't have enough experience with long term romantic relationships to really swear by any of this, either.
Hm, well it just feels like Fe leads grow on me. But liking and admiring are not the same thing as feeling good around someone, though perhaps that is what you meant.
The criterion I use for separating possible ESIs from possible SEIs is to hang out with them. I can hang out with an ESI for hours, and an SEI for about 15 minutes before I start to feel like I'm in the wrong play.
What do you guys think that DarkAngelFireWolf69 would most likely type me? I’m interested to know now.
Why don't you ask the man himself?
Because $200 is a LOT to spend on a typing to be honest. And I want to wager some bets as well. See who gets it right.
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