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Thread: Queen's Gambit/Elizabeth Harmon

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    Default Queen's Gambit/Elizabeth Harmon

    Great new Netflix mini series. What type does everyone think Beth was? I lean towards LII-Ti SP/SX 5w6

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    Quote Originally Posted by mightylizard View Post
    Great new Netflix mini series. What type does everyone think Beth was? I lean towards LII-Ti SP/SX 5w6
    I'm thinking SLI.
    One of the first things I noticed about the show was how Delta Beth is. If not delta, then gamma (ILI). I can't see any Ti-Fe valuing.
    I wonder what type Anya Taylor-Joy is.

    I'd say her adoptive mom is IEE, but I'm not sure.

    You posted this just as I started watching!

    Edit: she's NOT Fe-seeking.
    Last edited by persimmonism; 11-11-2020 at 10:45 PM.

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    I think NT. LII could work.

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    She has an obvious strong Ni. One should be too autistic themselves to type her Si ego. She is the most out of reality character. I didn't like her one bit for some reason, maybe because of all the Ni.

    Her adoptive mom = ESE.

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    Not Ni.
    One of her main problems throughout the season is that she's stuck inside a single way doing and seeing things.
    She needs people around her to show her alternatives. e.g. not relying on simply intuition in chess-playing.
    she also must be shown that there is a lot of potential to her life, beyond chess.

    But back to chess, she needs people to encourage her about her potential. Her mother (ESE or IEE i think both are possible but i don'r rly care too much) constantly encourages her. she also provided the push for her to try doing things with this potential-- going to competitions, flying abroad..
    At New Mexico, she showed her for the first time that there could be other things to life besides chess (New Mexico trip). Beth has a mini revelation. to the viewer it feels like the world just opened up a bit (but then the mom goes and dies and she gets stuck in a rut)

    She doesn't need to be spurred into action so much as bumped out of her mind, where she gets stuck in unchanging, stubborn loops.

    No Ni or Ne user would have been so disconcerted by the physical conditio of Benny's apartment upon arrival (now there's a Ne ego) . it's practically all she/the show focuses on during the first five or ten minutes. she literally refuses to start playing chess with him before having something to eat. so much staring and taking things in when she first sees the underground room, the blow-up bed..

    Irrational. she's fluid and adapts to new situations without much trouble. for example at Benny's apartment, after some brief acclimatization, she gets right into the groove of his lifestyle (the environment, the pace of life, the company..)
    although, her younger actor portrayed her as pretty rational.

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    I think is more likely for strong N and T to enjoy thinking in several steps forward and to be able to play chess in your mind or to visualize it in your head. Personally I've never be able to do it. I need to use my senses and I don't enjoy trying to figure out steps in a chess board in my mind. There's more pleasurable stuff to think about and relevant things to solve or figure out in daily life than that (like how to increase resources or what to do with them). I mean, S vs N.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    I think is more likely for strong N and T to enjoy thinking in several steps forward and to be able to play chess in your mind or to visualize it in your head. Personally I've never be able to do it. I need to use my senses and I don't enjoy trying to figure out steps in a chess board in my mind. There's more pleasurable stuff to think about and relevant things to solve or figure out in daily life than that (like how to increase resources or what to do with them). I mean, S vs N.
    Yeah, I'd be inclined to think she's an NT since she enjoys chess..
    But since this is a show.. I think how the actress interprets her personality outside of chess playing is more SLI.
    i've been thinking about ILI but idk..
    i'm placed the book on hold. wonder what her type might seem in the book.

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    ILI. Obvious Ni, Te, and Fe PoLR.





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    beth sle with high/developed ni. she's said to be very intuitive in her play and chess is ni heavy.
    townes seems beta too
    benny ile
    beltik lii
    the adoptive mother eie, both her husband and her mexican pen pal also vi as lsi too
    jolene eie
    the twins, iee
    borgov ili
    mr shaibel sli

    the actress who plays beth VIs as iei

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    SLI.

    She's S, not N.




    This is probably the scene that most clearly shows a preference for concrete over theory. Playing intuitively isn't the same thing as having a preference for the intuitive IEs. That is something many people with "gifts" do. Their gift just comes to them because they are born with an innate ability to do something. Outside of chess (how they say she plays intuitively), she shows no preference for intuition. She is a prodigy, not an intuitive. She doesn't want to go over all the different possibilities that could have been. She wants to only go over the things that were in reality. Btw, that imaginative aspect of her chess playing (on the ceiling) only happens when she is on drugs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Not Ni.
    One of her main problems throughout the season is that she's stuck inside a single way doing and seeing things.
    She needs people around her to show her alternatives. e.g. not relying on simply intuition in chess-playing.
    she also must be shown that there is a lot of potential to her life, beyond chess.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    She doesn't need to be spurred into action so much as bumped out of her mind, where she gets stuck in unchanging, stubborn loops.
    This was one of the other main things I noticed. She is highly self-motivated, if anything her mother has to persuade her to relax — at least in that one specific area of her life. I think her drug abuse can pertain to Si, but manifesting in an unhealthy way.

    And that Fe-PoLR of hers is just hilarious. I love xLI's.

    EDIT: Well...never have known an SLI in RL to the best of my knowledge, but one of my best friends is an ILI, so I'll speak for that at least. I loved Beth's character too, though.
    Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 11-01-2021 at 08:37 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ropan View Post
    the actress who plays beth VIs as iei
    really? anya taylor joy strikes me as an IEE playing her dual, SLI.

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    i saw her as LII... i would place her sort of rigid way of doing things as being IJ, very rational. her Si experiences could fit with HA. chess is her entire universe - the board is an entire world that she lives in - iow she lives in an abstract world. i didn't see her as adverse to Fe, but more so to Fi. however, i could see a case for any 4d Ti type. also the thing with using drugs was a dumbo's feather sort of thing - she didn't believe she could see without the drugs and the end of course i remember thinking was trying to show she's even better without them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i saw her as LII... i would place her sort of rigid way of doing things as being IJ, very rational. her Si experiences could fit with HA. chess is her entire universe - the board is an entire world that she lives in - iow she lives in an abstract world. i didn't see her as adverse to Fe, but more so to Fi. however, i could see a case for any 4d Ti type. also the thing with using drugs was a dumbo's feather sort of thing - she didn't believe she could see without the drugs and the end of course i remember thinking was trying to show she's even better without them.
    Chess invites catching the patterns evoking the lanes of polymath frozen stasis imagined mountaintop view to see life taking shape. I used to like chess, because of the elegant patchwork quilt the pieces weave. To open up dimensions and time advances is a fine show.
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    I think even Ne demonstrative would use it more than this. Seems more like Ne suggestive — needing to be shown alternatives. Still think SLI in Socionics.

    ISTJ in MBTI. I think 5 is off for her, she doesn't show that whole analysis paralysis "avoiding action while overthinking" issue that is so central to 5s. If anything, she jumps in head first very confidently, expecting to win. I think she is an Sp 3 (which is countertype, avoids being seen as image oriented, etc).
    Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 11-02-2021 at 02:37 AM.


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    She seems clearly ILI to me. The only other type I would think would be LSI. Look how she is about making money and THINGS. She loves playing chess to make money to buy beautiful things. She chooses a style that puts off the image she wants to portray. Seems pretty Se/Ni to me.

    Her adoptive mom seems SEE imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by asterr View Post
    She seems clearly ILI to me. The only other type I would think would be LSI. Look how she is about making money and THINGS. She loves playing chess to make money to buy beautiful things. She chooses a style that puts off the image she wants to portray. Seems pretty Se/Ni to me.

    Her adoptive mom seems SEE imo.
    Aesthetics = Si...and ILI is not motivated toward those things whatsoever, especially not on their own.


    ILIs generally place moderate to minimal importance on such matters as cleanliness, comfort, and sensory stimuli. Some ILIs may perceive these elements as a distraction. It is not atypical of ILIs to be completely uninterested by and unable to find any value in something such as a piece of fine artwork. Different ILIs respond to different such artistic stimuli in different ways; for example, an ILI might scorn painting as being worthless but possess sufficient background to enjoy other media, such as sculpture or music.
    https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/ILI-INTp/


    LSI doesn't care about those Si things as much, either.


    LSIs may have some interest in creating comfortable, commodious surroundings for themselves, but tend to be unconcerned with having a pleasant physical environment, and are often more concerned with their ability to control the people or situation around them or their own personal goals.

    LSIs, perhaps more than any other type, are reputed for their stubborn resistance to the reality of their bodies, and the nonrelevance of their physical states as compared to their own personal goals and volitions. At a socionics meeting, an LSI once walked four miles in his sandals, resulting in a badly scraped and bloody foot, and proceeded to sit through the remainder of the four-hour-long meeting before tending to it.


    She isn't like that. She cares about those things a lot, and isn't controlling others.


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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i saw her as LII... i would place her sort of rigid way of doing things as being IJ, very rational. her Si experiences could fit with HA. chess is her entire universe - the board is an entire world that she lives in - iow she lives in an abstract world. i didn't see her as adverse to Fe, but more so to Fi. however, i could see a case for any 4d Ti type. also the thing with using drugs was a dumbo's feather sort of thing - she didn't believe she could see without the drugs and the end of course i remember thinking was trying to show she's even better without them.
    An L.I.I. that doesn't want to bother with considering alternate possibilities, and only wants to focus on concrete moves that have happened?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lunacik View Post
    Aesthetics = Si...and ILI is not motivated toward those things whatsoever, especially not on their own.


    ILIs generally place moderate to minimal importance on such matters as cleanliness, comfort, and sensory stimuli. Some ILIs may perceive these elements as a distraction. It is not atypical of ILIs to be completely uninterested by and unable to find any value in something such as a piece of fine artwork. Different ILIs respond to different such artistic stimuli in different ways; for example, an ILI might scorn painting as being worthless but possess sufficient background to enjoy other media, such as sculpture or music.
    https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/ILI-INTp/


    LSI doesn't care about those Si things as much, either.


    LSIs may have some interest in creating comfortable, commodious surroundings for themselves, but tend to be unconcerned with having a pleasant physical environment, and are often more concerned with their ability to control the people or situation around them or their own personal goals.

    LSIs, perhaps more than any other type, are reputed for their stubborn resistance to the reality of their bodies, and the nonrelevance of their physical states as compared to their own personal goals and volitions. At a socionics meeting, an LSI once walked four miles in his sandals, resulting in a badly scraped and bloody foot, and proceeded to sit through the remainder of the four-hour-long meeting before tending to it.


    She isn't like that. She cares about those things a lot, and isn't controlling others.
    Aesthetics isn’t purely in the region of Si. Se and Si aesthetics looks different and has a different purpose/goal in mind. She doesn’t focus on the comfort, but rather in the image she is trying to portray, the vision. I see this over and over again in IXI. It’s impactful vision/image vs coziness flow
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    Quote Originally Posted by asterr View Post
    Aesthetics isn’t purely in the region of Si. Se and Si aesthetics looks different and has a different purpose/goal in mind. She doesn’t focus on the comfort, but rather in the image she is trying to portray, the vision. I see this over and over again in IXI. It’s impactful vision/image vs coziness flow
    That's somewhat true about Se/Si, but I think those who are Se valuing and into aesthetics still have high Si. I would have to look into the ILI thing you mentioned, but I still think she's not N. She demonstrates a strong/clear preference for the concrete over theoretical. Look how resistant she is toward the theoretical she is when people try to get her to consider alternatives that have not actually happened. She sees it as a waste of her time. "In theory, this could happen—but in practice, it hasn't happened, so why should I be concerned with it?" Also, she does focus on comfort a lot, and not just image...and it drives her insane when anything is out of order. She is a stickler for her routines, conscientious about her health outside of the drugs (as well as her mother's health), and really doesn't like for her “usual” to be interrupted. (See scenes such as those where she is talked into playing chess before breakfast as an example.)


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    Quote Originally Posted by asterr View Post
    She seems clearly ILI to me. The only other type I would think would be LSI. Look how she is about making money and THINGS. She loves playing chess to make money to buy beautiful things. She chooses a style that puts off the image she wants to portray. Seems pretty Se/Ni to me.

    Her adoptive mom seems SEE imo.
    The actress doesn't look like Fe polr. I mean those eyes. She seem like a Ni/Se value.

    The character look like S type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lunacik View Post
    That's somewhat true about Se/Si, but I think those who are Se valuing and into aesthetics still have high Si. I would have to look into the ILI thing you mentioned, but I still think she's not N. She demonstrates a strong/clear preference for the concrete over theoretical. Look how resistant she is toward the theoretical she is when people try to get her to consider alternatives that have not actually happened. She sees it as a waste of her time. "In theory, this could happen—but in practice, it hasn't happened, so why should I be concerned with it?" Also, she does focus on comfort a lot, and not just image...and it drives her insane when anything is out of order. She is a stickler for her routines, conscientious about her health outside of the drugs (as well as her mother's health), and really doesn't like for her “usual” to be interrupted. (See scenes such as those where she is talked into playing chess before breakfast as an example.)
    Yes, but ILI is Ne ignoring. They do often ignore alternatives unless they have to.

    it drives me insane when things are out of order, too. I contribute that personally to be a normalizing subtype. They way she jumps into chess games without any plan is more of an irrational trait, one could say.

    most people are somewhat concerned with comfort, though. I mean at least a little bit, with comfort, no matter their type. Just like everyone eats and enjoys food. It’s not just what she does, but why she does it. I mean anyone can get a wild hair up their ass and clean someone else’s house, especially if they are bored and on drugs. I once manically cleaned my MIL microwave for no reason other than it was disgusting and bothered me. But I don’t think I’m a Si type. Also, randomly doing something weird like that seem more of an irrational trait, imo.

    I also am very concerned about my health while simultaneously doing things detrimental to it. This is often how Si manifests in IXI. IEI are said to whine excessively about their health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by asterr View Post
    Yes, but ILI is Ne ignoring. They do often ignore alternatives unless they have to.
    Yeah, I figured you'd say that, which is why I pointed out the bit about the concrete. She does not ignore alternatives only, she also prefers that which has actually happened.

    Overall, I just don't get where anyone sees Ni.

    it drives me insane when things are out of order, too. I contribute that personally to be a normalizing subtype. They way she jumps into chess games without any plan is more of an irrational trait, one could say.

    most people are somewhat concerned with comfort, though. I mean at least a little bit, with comfort, no matter their type. Just like everyone eats and enjoys food. It’s not just what she does, but why she does it. I mean anyone can get a wild hair up their ass and clean someone else’s house, especially if they are bored and on drugs. I once manically cleaned my MIL microwave for no reason other than it was disgusting and bothered me. But I don’t think I’m a Si type. Also, randomly doing something weird like that seem more of an irrational trait, imo.

    I also am very concerned about my health while simultaneously doing things detrimental to it. This is often how Si manifests in IXI. IEI are said to whine excessively about their health.
    The extent to which she does things is not the “just anyone” levels, and her concern for it all is obvious. Also, using yourself as a point of comparison is usually extremely faulty logic when you're using it to disprove something.

    Tbh, it just looks like you're desperately grasping at (weak) points now.


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    The character lacked enough depth to give a definitive sociotype to imo. On top of that, the character herself was disconnected and had a lot of mental health problems.

    Plus the thing to make it even worse is that the actress is a 4d Fe type which clearly is not what the written characterization was intended for her character.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lunacik View Post
    Yeah, I figured you'd say that, which is why I pointed out the bit about the concrete. She does not ignore alternatives only, she also prefers that which has actually happened.

    Overall, I just don't get where anyone sees Ni.


    The extent to which she does things is not the “just anyone” levels, and her concern for it all is obvious. Also, using yourself as a point of comparison is usually extremely faulty logic when you're using it to disprove something.

    Tbh, it just looks like you're desperately grasping at (weak) points now.
    lol

    yeah tbh im terrible at explaining things, and usually don’t take part in this sort of things on the forum for this reason, besides, i really don’t care to win and I doubt anyone will change my mind…but seriously ILI makes the most sense from everything I’ve read and her character thus far, not saying I couldn’t like, completely change my mind after another structural change to my understanding of socionics….I doubt a few years ago I would have thought she was ILI. Also @Toro is right. It’s usually hard to type characters as they aren’t real people. Something interesting to note, though, I thought, was she was based off the authors own experience with drugs, and is suppose to be like a female bobby Fischer, as was the authors intention, because he implied female chess players aren’t very smart. I don’t think Bobby Fischer had drug problems that I know of, so already, you have some really strange stuff going on with the development of this character.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq-...by-fischer/amp
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    ILI is the chess player type
    Quote Originally Posted by idiot View Post
    I have been thinking about what Alive was saying about everyone on here being IEI, and I conclude that he is right, or at least he is on to something.

    If Jung based his theories on the people he met in his life, even if he met more people than the average person, that means that he based his theories on a certain type of person. The type of person who might go to him for therapy or talks, or who might believe the esoteric ideas he was spouting at the time. Thus it's possible that he did not categorize all humans into types, but just made subtypes for a specific type of person. This overarching type of person is the same type that is heavily interested in theories of this kind, and whom Alive says is an IEI.

    Therefore, Alive is right. We are all IEIs with subtypes. With that, I'm off this forum
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    ILI is the chess player type
    Chess is boring. Poker is a much better game, require more Ni to play, and the gambling nature of it make it closer to real life.

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    Beth- prob ILI or LSI



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    Lmao.



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    The series is an awful product intending to make the audience sympathize with a character with an iq in the 160s. She had the one thing that would grant her an escape even as woman in the 50s but it was still presented as a personal victory. Her progression comes to her by virtue of her intelligence; she sits and wins thanks to what's between her ears and that's it so character is kind of too one-dimensional to type no matter how many moments of her stepmother touching her hand in a once in a lifetime moment of tenderness they throw in to underscore some kind of character development. lol no.
    Whatever, T type.
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