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Thread: Types least likely to believe in COVID/the efficacy of masks

  1. #41
    lkdhf qkb's Avatar
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    The people in my circle of aquaintances that consistently spread COVID conspiration theories on fb are T-Polr sensors i.e. SEI & SEE. They post it with headers like "if you still didn't get it" or "it's so obvious" or "sign this petition against vaccines".
    I rarely feel alone. I rarely talk to anyone, yet in my head i have the most amazing, the most fantastic discussions with the people in my life. In real life, what most people talk about is several orders of magnitude lesser than their inner experiences. Most people never reveal the singularity of their subjective experience.
    Maybe I should learn to explore other people's consciousness. Maybe I should aim for a real space between me and others. Instead of cultivating monologues and fantasies. It's hard, but the alternative to this seems to be madness. ~ lkdhf qkb

    Life is soup. I'm fork


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    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
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    The conspiracy of mask skepticism has spread to the WHO:

    At present there is only limited and inconsistent scientific evidence to support the effectiveness of masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including SARS-CoV-2 (75). A large randomized community-based trial in which 4862 healthy participants were divided into a group wearing medical/surgical masks and a control group found no difference in infection with SARS-CoV-2 (76). A recent systematic review found nine trials (of which eight were cluster-randomized controlled trials in which clusters of people, versus individuals, were randomized) comparing medical/surgical masks versus no masks to prevent the spread of viral respiratory illness. Two trials were with healthcare workers and seven in the community. The review concluded that wearing a mask may make little or no difference to the prevention of influenza-like illness (ILI) (RR 0.99, 95%CI 0.82 to 1.18) or laboratory confirmed illness (LCI) (RR 0.91, 95%CI 0.66-1.26) (44); the certainty of the evidence was low for ILI, moderate for LCI.”

    https://www.who.int/publications/i/i...ncov)-outbreak

    Guess the WHO is Ti-valuing

  3. #43
    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    bahhhh havent read the thread but it seems like common sense that putting something on ur mouth and nose will make u less likely to get germs.
    like surgery floors and stuff

    i guess there is efficacy and side effect stuff to quibble about and to be fair i'm not well versed in that because quibbling isnt my thing

  4. #44
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    The conspiracy of mask skepticism has spread to the WHO:

    At present there is only limited and inconsistent scientific evidence to support the effectiveness of masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including SARS-CoV-2 (75). A large randomized community-based trial in which 4862 healthy participants were divided into a group wearing medical/surgical masks and a control group found no difference in infection with SARS-CoV-2 (76). A recent systematic review found nine trials (of which eight were cluster-randomized controlled trials in which clusters of people, versus individuals, were randomized) comparing medical/surgical masks versus no masks to prevent the spread of viral respiratory illness. Two trials were with healthcare workers and seven in the community. The review concluded that wearing a mask may make little or no difference to the prevention of influenza-like illness (ILI) (RR 0.99, 95%CI 0.82 to 1.18) or laboratory confirmed illness (LCI) (RR 0.91, 95%CI 0.66-1.26) (44); the certainty of the evidence was low for ILI, moderate for LCI.”

    https://www.who.int/publications/i/i...ncov)-outbreak

    Guess the WHO is Ti-valuing
    Ti-valuing is not in doubt. They've analyzed the transmission of viruses to the nth degree.

    And yet........and yet, there was no flu season this year.

    Must be magic.

  5. #45
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Ti-valuing is not in doubt. They've analyzed the transmission of viruses to the nth degree.

    And yet........and yet, there was no flu season this year.

    Must be magic.
    You think it was masks that stopped flu?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    You think it was masks that stopped flu?
    Yes. Masks, and social distancing.

  7. #47
    scattered moorings inumbra's Avatar
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    i feel like sometimes it comes from a 1D T DS fct. I've seen Te DS and Ti DS both become very caught up in the contradictions or the changing of the story, leading to confusion and suspicion. the story about the masks is always changing (what is the REAL reason for that? *suspicion*), or all the contradictions (they said masks don't do anything, then they said masks are effective, they contradicted themselves! WHY? *suspicion*), or in this venue they want people to wear them but not in THAT venue (why do not the same rules apply? *suspicion*). there's not as much tolerance for all the tripping all over themselves people do when trying to manage a crisis (badly).

    but really, beneath all this is probably a distrust of the "authorities" and distrust of their ability to manage anything. so the people in charge are idiots who can't make decisions that make sense, manage resources/people, etc. or worse, they have nefarious motives and therefore everything that comes from them cannot be trusted. and ofc it all became so political in the US, that honestly, it wasn't all just down to the basics of public health considerations.

    eta generally i look at it kind of like this:


    i didn't watch the whole thing, but it makes sense to me that they block more droplets and if approaching someone face to face, one will spew fewer droplets on them if wearing mask. so i can understand why these mask rules are in place, and i don't expect perfect rulings from the authorities. i know there's been a lot of mismanagement in US and it's been kind of a disaster, but i tend to cooperate i guess if there is some major crisis anyway.

    they're also rather testable in that when you exhale you can feel where the air is coming out with your hand.
    Last edited by inumbra; 04-02-2021 at 10:00 PM.

  8. #48
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    What is Ti. What is Se. Do I win the Jepardy? Also What is Ni/Fe.

    I can see Ti/Se arguing with themselves over minutia like mask wearing if told it's bad over a facebook post.

    Distrusting the government is natural for someone with low Fi.

    Similarily, I've had people try to "prove" it not viable to wear a mask via some convoluted test. Wanted 15% mask wearing proven by a blood test. I'm like what the frick, but then they dropped it to 0% and I understood. This person was either Fi/Se or Si/Fe. They figured we'd accept 15% if they proved it with a blood test, which "should be possible." I'm repetitively saying I don't know that it's possible, and they're like, no any doctor like me would agree it's possible.

    Ni/Fe would normally not care, but they trust Ti/Se universally, so. I can see them saying government conspiracy is the real reason why we have masks, but also then wearing masks because they don't care.

    Personally, my position is literally pascal's gambit. You cannot defeat my position except by not understanding it. If I wear a mask, what happens? Nothing. What do I lose if I don't? Not very much, I'm not likely to die if I get sick. Still, I don't want other people to get sick off me, so. Mask. That's before me just doing the government's mandatory thing.

    Frick the faith argument, I have no faith by the constraints of what faith is to the evangelist. Faith is no fear in god. I fear his wrath. I will wear a mask.
    Last edited by Alomoes; 04-03-2021 at 12:46 PM.

  9. #49

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    When Ti valuing they think that there is something wrong with the pandemic and that some sanitary measures are absurd,and won't respect the measures everytime because they find it unnecessary but some types who are quite conscious about their health (generally LII , IEI and Si ego types) still follow the measures (even if they don't agree with everything). When Te valuing , they have no doubt from official sources and they find rationale to respect the measures, but some types(IEEs and mb gamma SF) won't follow the measures either because of inattention or because they don't attach that much importance to their health (or, for ESI, they don't really believe in the dangerosity of COVID)

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    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
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    @inumbra

    Regardless of what “makes sense to you,” no public health organization recommended wearing masks for any disease prior to March 2020. Short of an N95 masks are virtually useless. At most they stop you from spitting and sneezing into people’s faces.

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    Alright, just skimmed through this whole thread and wanna put my thoughts out.

    The idea that somehow the valuing of Te, or anything function for that matter, affects if people will wear masks on not is complete bullshit. All evidence that people have put in this thread for any type has been anecdotal, which would've been at least useable, if it weren't for the fact that there's virtually no clear pattern. The only one that approaches one is the idea that Te valuers care more about masks, which seems to be pretty untrue considering the comments of the few Te valuers in this thread. From what I can tell, the only thing socionics does in this category is predict the process by which people think masks are useful or not, not whether they will. A Ti valuer might defend their stance different from a Te(In what way depends on how you define each of those functions), but in the end what stance they hold is more dependent on the environment they're in. Anyone, of any type, can use cherry picking to only look for information for what's true or not. A person with 4/3d Te should theoretically be able to figure out true information better than someone with 1/2d, but in the end, if they just want information that proves they were right in the first place, good Te means nothing. This entire thread is filled with people putting their cherry picked evidence as truth, taking any evidence they can get their hands on proving their position true.

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    scattered moorings inumbra's Avatar
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    aaaaah I don't know why such measures appear to make a difference but they do. my state would respond to increases in counties by shutting businesses down more for a bit and then the rate of spread would go down again. our hospitals have never gotten overwhelmed like they have in some states. i don't follow every word spoken by saint fauci - i'm too te polr to bother. i know this thing with the masks won't last forever and don't tend to make a big deal about the present.

    the more significant argument to me is economic hardship vs spread as i've went back and forth on that in my mind.

    although in everyone else's defense, rules that protect me from other ppl interacting with me make me feel better as i don't like all the demands and intrusiveness that come from others. so I haven't exactly been suffering more since this all began.

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    Too lazy to write much qaz00's Avatar
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    1. Paranoid governments ban things just in case, politicians trust their own reasoning while they should listen to scientists.
    2. People may hide symptoms because they don't believe in COVID or are afraid that quarantine will cause some problems in their life and think it's better for them to live normally.

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    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qaz00 View Post
    1. Paranoid governments ban things just in case, politicians trust their own reasoning while they should listen to scientists.
    2. People may hide symptoms because they don't believe in COVID or are afraid that quarantine will cause some problems in their life and think it's better for them to live normally.
    So because a minority of people might hide Covid symptoms we should punish all society, force millions to lose their jobs, and watch rates of depression and suicides rocket?

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    Too lazy to write much qaz00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    So because a minority of people might hide Covid symptoms we should punish all society, force millions to lose their jobs, and watch rates of depression and suicides rocket?
    Main reason for lockdowns is to prevent healthcare system from collapse. No lockdowns means this minority makes more people sick than hospitals can handle. I'd rather lose my job than be dead.

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    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qaz00 View Post
    Main reason for lockdowns is to prevent healthcare system from collapse. No lockdowns means this minority makes more people sick than hospitals can handle. I'd rather lose my job than be dead.
    Where are you living that hospitals have been anywhere close to collapsing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Where are you living that hospitals have been anywhere close to collapsing?
    I live in Ann Arbor, MI. Google the hospital complex here.

    During the last COVID spike the hospitals filled up and they had to start using space in the sports complex.

    My exact numbers might be off, but I think that most hospitals have space for around one or three percent of the community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I live in Ann Arbor, MI. Google the hospital complex here.

    During the last COVID spike the hospitals filled up and they had to start using space in the sports complex.

    My exact numbers might be off, but I think that most hospitals have space for around one or three percent of the community.
    Was that last autumn?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Was that last autumn?
    Yes, I believe so.

    The University of Michigan health system has taken over the UM stadium (Google that, too) and are using it to vaccinate as many people as possible, as fast as they can.

    But this is Ann Arbor, where there are a lot of advanced degrees. The rest of Michigan is not like this (Google Lansing where the doubters rallied in front of the state capital, or Grand Rapids, home of Trump’s “Education” secretary, De Vos), and infections are rising again in the state.

    For the rest of the state, the COVID doubters go maskless, refuse to get vaccinated, they bring the infection back to their families, grandma and grandpa die and the family inherits and they get to buy a new truck. Win-win.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-05-2021 at 12:19 PM.

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    Everyone wear a mask, so I wear a mask. Wearing a mask doesn't kill me so I don't question that much about how useful it is. I'm not gonna waste my time challenging the government.

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    Lockdowns were put in place to slow transmission of the virus while a vaccine was developed, pushed through trials, and approved for use. That's how I reconcile their purpose in my longhand Ti way.

    Herd immunity can be achieved in populations that have developed antibodies; whether that is via vaccination or having previously been infected with COVID-19 (when it does not end your life).

    Have spent the past week reading up on the vaccines and pasted an article here, which helps to explain their function. I didn't know much prior to this.

    Even so, I do notice inconsistencies in social distances and get myself in a knot weighing the losses (upsetting, feel a bad person for doing so, try not to dwell).
    I do recognise cumulative loss of livelihood, as the lockdown conditions stay in place.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Here is one study on who is dying from COVID and who isn't.

    https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-cont...nal_footer.pdf

    Short form here: https://jabberwocking.com/new-study-...-19-mortality/

  24. #64
    idiot sandwich aixelsyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I live in Ann Arbor, MI. Google the hospital complex here.

    During the last COVID spike the hospitals filled up and they had to start using space in the sports complex.

    My exact numbers might be off, but I think that most hospitals have space for around one or three percent of the community.
    Same thing happened in my part of Florida. For a while, ICUs were filled up and new patients had to be rushed to hospitals in the next county over.

  25. #65
    The Ultimate Aeon of Will RaptorWizard's Avatar
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    It's definitely types of people who relate to external dependency, who only feel safe in the real world, rather than in the imagination that freak out the most about the security of life, like mask wearing.

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