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Thread: Democrats: What if?

  1. #121
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    Biden strikes me as potentially a little too conciliatory at a time when it is needed to take a stand :/


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    Part of Trump's appeal is having a leader that is emotional and reactive and baby-ish inside and kind of playfully arrogant as opposed the traditional leader thats' stoic, emotionless, and cold and arrogant but in a serious, humorless way - in such a way they seem like a Reptile Demon or heartless. In this sense I can understand Trump's appeal. The people are tired of being run by Deep State robots.

    However being cold and emotionless is actually a positive in the sense it helps filter out fact from fiction and evidence from a lack thereof. If you go by passion only- you become blind to all sorts of faults & manipulations. Too much of this would literally drive you insane as you would be seriously trolled and riled up by all sorts of things you shoudn't be if instead you used more cold logic. In fact, this is kind of how stereotypical criminal masterminds work- they are effective at rousing up even the most logically stone cold detective and agent.

    So Trump trolled the people that trolled them- and emotionally one tends to feel great when that happens. They feel protected. But I think they are in this kind of denial where they don't realize that he would just as easily target them for abuse too.

    It always interests me in a way how so many writers of romance and fantasy are also some of the most hard-nosed realists you will ever meet. The ones who write about super powers are also funnily enough the ones that realize the most how super powers don't exist or how subtle and limited they really are. How they are just an effective allegory for somebody's personality type or feelings.

    Also it explains why those with such emotional and fervent religous convictions also seem to be the ones most manipulated by Trump as well. As they aren't seeing the world through the lens of fact or not fact but by faith and a lack of faith. So the mainstream media getting on their high horse about 'fact checking' doesn't work as they are moved more by faith. In fact I kind of roll my eyes when I see this sort of manipulation thing the mainstream media does like 'we fact checked this!' as though it's supposed to impress anybody. People shouldn't be moved or excited about fact checking- it should be something that sobers everybody up but in a good way. I mean, facts should be checked- but the pretense that we should somehow be emotionally appeased by doing so is cringe.
    Last edited by Hot Scalding Gayser; 02-04-2021 at 12:46 AM.

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    The "fact-checking" is often just lies and manipulations as well though. It's funny, Time magazine just openly admitted how far they (media, big tech, etc) went to influence the election but since it's for the team they were rooting for, it's "fortified" not rigged or unduly influenced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Time
    That's why the participants want the secret history of the 2020 election told, even though it sounds like a paranoid fever dream - a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information. They were not rigging the election; they were fortifying it.
    It's what I've been saying - all these folks are working together, and they're calling it "saving democracy" when it's actually undermining it, feeding people constant propaganda and working against the public.

  4. #124
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    To add to what @squark said, it’s obvious that the elites didn’t like Trump. The virtual entirety of the media establishment was against him, and he didn’t have friends in Congress — Republicans who worked with him did it because they had to, even if they hated his guts. Some of the more anti-Trump people here ought to consider that Trump’s support came mostly from discontent masses, while Biden was supported by >90% of the elite, and what that means.

    They also should probably consider where their dislike for him comes from. Is it really moral? If they despised Trump for putting kids in cages, do they feel the same revulsion toward Biden for putting children in what CNN calls ”overflow facilities for unaccompanied migrant children?” If they cared that Trump was normalizing crass, corrupt, and misogynistic behavior, do they care about Biden Biden groping children or his drug addict son being given an executive position and salary at Ukraine’s largest oil company while having zero qualifications? I would guess that most people who have an emotional feeling of revulsion toward Trump (and not toward the rest of this country’s Presidents) have it because they were told to have it by the media they consume.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    To add to what @squark said, it’s obvious that the elites didn’t like Trump. The virtual entirety of the media establishment was against him, and he didn’t have friends in Congress — Republicans who worked with him did it because they had to, even if they hated his guts. Some of the more anti-Trump people here ought to consider that Trump’s support came mostly from discontent masses, while Biden was supported by >90% of the elite, and what that means.

    They also should probably consider where their dislike for him comes from. Is it really moral? If they despised Trump for putting kids in cages, do they feel the same revulsion toward Biden for putting children in what CNN calls ”overflow facilities for unaccompanied migrant children?” If they cared that Trump was normalizing crass, corrupt, and misogynistic behavior, do they care about Biden Biden groping children or his drug addict son being given an executive position and salary at Ukraine’s largest oil company while having zero qualifications? I would guess that most people who have an emotional feeling of revulsion toward Trump (and not toward the rest of this country’s Presidents) have it because they were told to have it by the media they consume.
    In my case, I hated Trump because he was a narcissist, and no one had to tell me that. Even my narcissist mother hated Trump, and if there was ever a committed conservative Republican, she was it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Internationale View Post
    Absolutely. Socialism is much closer to a meritocracy in this way. If everybody starts from the same place and everybody owns their own labor, then groups of laborers could "elect a leader" from among themselves who shows promise and who would be the best leader. Its democracy taken to its logical extreme.
    What isn’t extreme about our current system? What isn’t “democratic” about the United States (assuming you’re american)? What would “fix” this democracy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    In my case, I hated Trump because he was a narcissist, and no one had to tell me that. Even my narcissist mother hated Trump, and if there was ever a committed conservative Republican, she was it.
    Do you hate AOC?

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    Is it really true that Trump was despised by the elite? Among many other things, the guy hired Steve Mnuchin as secretary of the treasury; the Heritage Foundation loved his judicial picks; and he lowered taxes on the rich. The guy was milked for all that he was worth.

    I don't get the impression that the elites hated him at all. His aloofness was a gift that probably made him easier to control. I doubt that he personally hand-picked those judges or even understood their beliefs about the law --- more likely, some Republican functionary gave him a list that he impatiently signed before going off to play golf.

    His crassness, racism, and incompetence, which the media eagerly drew attention to, drove a wedge between populists and ordinary voters. People are now more afraid of direct democracy, more grateful to have an establishment of technocrats, and less likely to choose outsider candidates.

    Also, wasn't his pick for Communications Commission chairman also the guy who abolished net neutrality? That's much worse than Twitter's meddlesomeness WRT. freedom of speech.

  9. #129
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Is it really true that Trump was despised by the elite? Among many other things, the guy hired Steve Mnuchin as secretary of the treasury; the Heritage Foundation loved his judicial picks; and he lowered taxes on the rich. The guy was milked for all that he was worth.

    I don't get the impression that the elites hated him at all. His aloofness was a gift that probably made him easier to control. I doubt that he personally hand-picked those judges or even understood their beliefs about the law --- more likely, some Republican functionary gave him a list that he impatiently signed before going off to play golf.

    His crassness, racism, and incompetence, which the media eagerly drew attention to, drove a wedge between populists and ordinary voters. People are now more afraid of direct democracy, more grateful to have an establishment of technocrats, and less likely to choose outsider candidates.

    Also, wasn't his pick for Communications Commission chairman also the guy who abolished net neutrality? That's much worse than Twitter's meddlesomeness WRT. freedom of speech.
    One of the most intelligent analysis I've read yet on Trump and his enablers.

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    Why does Mnuchin always look like he just ate a shit sandwich and liked it?

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    The "fact-checking" is often just lies and manipulations as well though.


    Yeah I know that. They also try to gaslight the masses by saying he said something he clearly didn't say and twist his words like he's this monster when if you checked what he actually said it really wasn't that bad. Otoh, I still think he does and says some bad things of course, I don't trust anybody getting that much power and being an ethical saint or 'God's chosen savior' by any means- but the cold gaslighting they do is very shady and problematic.

    I think more than anything with all this talk about sex abuse in the media that Trump was more or less a dangerous person that could expose a lot of people and so they had to smear him before he could smear them. While piously pretending they are these Moral Lords that don't have sexual thoughts like us plebians do and so they deserve to be the world's rightful rulers.

    And them taking away our ability to comment on Yahoo articles lol- claiming it's oh so innocently to stop bigotry and racism and sexism or whatever crap they said. Poppycock.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Why does Mnuchin always look like he just ate a shit sandwich and liked it?
    https://www.google.com/search?q=punc...h=630&biw=1366

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Default Fact Checker checking facts

    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  15. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I don't know this prophetess and this is the first video I have ever seen of her, but she rings "authentic" to me. I have been hoping to see a date. All I have heard about timing for Trump getting his presidency back is: "January is for justice, February is for fury, and March is for celebration". This is the first date I have heard anyone speak.


    what trustworthy source has you convinced that Trump was elected, Eliza? Or is it simply a hope?

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Hi Nanashi, I started this earlier today and now I am finishing it. I just hunted for a video about election results but so many I have seen are removed now. This one discusses videos that they show but are somehow missing from this video. But I consider this a trustworthy source, and, for you, I found it. I saw the other videos that I just can't find now for some reason, one reason is probably they gotremoved like so many. So what's here I wrote mostly earlier today. More than you asked for but I was cooking all day and reflecting a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    what trustworthy source has you convinced that Trump was elected, Eliza? Or is it simply a hope?
    We are so steeped in propaganda through our media that often times the most trustworthy option is to consider the OPPOSITE of whatever is heavily fed to us. Truly we are the propaganda nation now.

    I remember the first time I learned what propaganda meant. I was in 7th grade, and our Social Studies teacher was young and hip, bearded, and well loved by students. One thing that I learned stands out in my mind, in a way almost nothing else standout from those middle school years. He explained the situation with Russia and propaganda, and I was shocked. That a nation would lie to it's people! Those poor people! Living a lie! I was inflamed over this. It hit me hard.

    Why did this standout in my mind so much, I don't know. But why did I react so strongly to that particular injustice, in such a deep and memorable way, when there are so many injustices in this world to react to? All these years later, I see that we are the propaganda nation now. I believe my guardian angel wanted me to notice what the teacher told us about because he knew it was going to be such a major part of the life I would live in the future. That future is now.

    It was a propaganda nation then, too, just not complete as now. When a person (or a nation) starts lying, they are careful at first, watching their audience to make sure the lie is well told and received. The more they lie, the more they know they can get away with. Getting away with it influences them to get bolder and bolder and bolder with their lies. We are steeped in lies now. It sure is true that you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time...but, as the saying goes, there is a limit to the fooling! I think we have reached the limit here in our nation, thank God. I think with the election lies it will soon be clear that this time, you can't fool all of the people. One issue is after fooling all of the people for so much of the time for so long, the liars have gotten pretty proud and sloppy. The other issue is that God will act.


    It is so bad now; we are so steeped in the muck that the prophets say we can do nothing about it on our own, so God will have to act. I feel such peace about that now, because I believe it is true. I have been living for some years with inner frustration, feeling there must be something I should do to help promote justice and truth in our nation, but feeling any step in that direction would lead to nothing (if I could even think of a reasonable step). Now the prophets are saying there is noting we can do, except pray for God to do it. (Which is no small thing! Prayer can certainly seem the weakest thing, but it is the MOST powerful!) So I have been doing that and so have countless, countless others. We are praying for the God of truth and justice to act. The media is corrupt, the politicians are corrupt, the courts are corrupt. There is plenty of evidence that Trump won by a landslide, and prophets are saying this evidence (which is out there to find despite all the media effort to hide and cancel it) will be out there soon for everyone to see. (not sure what soon means but I believe it and I will wait in faith).

    Part of the evidence is what I have seen with my own eyes. I did a lot of driving in whatever spare time I could fit it in this summer, straight through into January (the reason for that is another story). I drove all over CT, all over this half of NYS, and across the giant long state of Pennsylvania and back again by a different route. In my whole life I have never seen so many election signs on lawns and on trucks and they were at least 90% Trump signs! Probably over 95-98%. Really I can remember maybe 3 Biden signs all together, among dozens and dozens of Trump signs.

    I also came upon several roadside Trump rallies. Not a single Biden one. The most memorable was driving through a rural CT town on a beautiful fall day that makes you love America, and stopping for a rare light at a crossroads, and all crowded all around the intersection were peaceful Trump rally people with their flags and signs all around my car, and I got a good look at their faces. They were of every age, young to old, truly salt of the earth types. I was drawn to the goodness in them. They were a group anyone would feel comfortable walking through. Yes, even with a Biden hat on. I was struck with this same reflection when I saw footage of Trump rally folk at the White House on January 6th. This would have been censored by the regular Media, but I saw lots of footage on Lifesite News. People in groups praying or singing. Joyful, peaceful faces. It was a truly peaceful rally in good spirits - much like what I saw on the road.

    Especially memorable was returning from western PA in November. I had hoped to do all my driving during the day, but that morning I did not want to cut off the nice breakfast conversation with my old friend before I left. So now I'd been driving in the dark some time. But breaking up the monotony of nearing the end of this long drive was that I was directly approaching a strange, far off beautiful blue place ahead of me. Eventually I saw a sign that it was the Tappan Zee Bridge (or the something else they call it that most of us don't want to call it) and it was lit up blue.





    As I go closer to the beautiful blue sky structure I was passing more and more Trump cars, tons of them, in the right lane. Lots of cars with signs and lots of pickup trucks with multiple large flags waving in the back. Lots of honking in their support! It was such an amazing thing to be in the middle of! Lots of police, and all along this giant bridge, still passing the long Trump parade in the right lane, with all their amazing flags, so many of them! There were police cars stationed at very regular intervals, lights flashing, as if in support. It was a beautiful sight and I felt deeply touched.**

    So all fall I saw Trump support all over the country (well, my corner of it - supposedly Democrat-land,, too). We got up extremely early on election day to vote before work. We would get in line an hour before they opened! Well everyone had the same idea. I never saw so many people out to vote! Many lines of people in the pre-dawn darkness, disappearing down several blocks from the town hall. No way I would be able to get to work on time, so I left for the long commute. Nearing my work I realized I needed gas, so got off at a strange exit and had to drive a bit to find a gas station. On route I drove by a school packed with cars (it was getting light now) - so early in the morning! Lines and lines of people all around the whole school and parking lot! Police were there directing people where to park. I saw Trump signs on the cars parked by the road. There was no doubt in my mind that it was Trump that brought all these people to vote.

    After school, back home, we headed straight out to vote. The people we waited with were very extra nice. we didn't talk politics of course, but they felt like Trumpers to me. And leaving, yet another big Trump rally group! This time we were in the very middle of them, because they filled the intersection outside the big old brick historic town hall building where we voted. I must have been the proper legal distance from the polls because the police station is right there, too. So we waded into the middle of them (and their flags and signs) to wait at the crosswalk. we talked to them, and they were genuinely good folk, that you felt safe to be standing in the middle of. But not a Biden supporter in sight.

    So yes, I do think Trump won by a landslide. I believe my eyes, my own experience, over what I am told I should think and believe.

    A few years ago I was subbing at a big rural high school and was in the teacher lounge. One teacher dominated the conversation for the short lunch period going from one topic to the next, and towards the end she began to go on about things she saw on the news last night. I said I don't watch the news because I get tired of feeling like I am being told what to think. She said, "What? I never have felt that way watching the news!" I didn't answer because i wasn't going to try to convince her of something she didn't really want to know about. Anway it was just a realization I had on my own, and it never occurred to me that anyone else felt that way. But I noticed the history teacher, who had been quiet and uninvolved in the conversation, look up and at me for a bit after I said that. I sensed he got it. Now these days I notice so many other people have the same feeling. I like the JP videos I have posted here because he really gets the things that I thought I was experiencing only in my own mind; he makes a comedy of these things, and I relate to it all. It's comic relief I need.

    I have never been interested in politics until this year. I knew Trump had to be the candidate in 2016 because he proclaimed himself to be prolife while evil Hilary was clearly was not. I thought Trump was just a clown - preferable to evil), and at least he was saying he was prolife - a step in the right direction. But I did not believe he would do what he said.

    But I learned more about Trump this summer and was surprised to realize that the actually did keep pretty much all of his campaign promises (i can't think of one he did not). That has to be unprecedented for a president! He even kept his prolife focus, faithfully as promised. It wasn't just words, which I had expected of him, a politician. But then again, he is a political outsider, not a lifer in the swampy system. They hate him, with a demonic hate, for being an outsider.

    But this particular election, with the Biden/Harris team being disgustingly pro-abort, to the absolute most evil extreme - even kill the baby AFTER live birth! Truly I can see them amending that to up to two years old old! Parental choice! This election, more than any other. is a clear division: be for or be against God and the things of God. Truly things cannot go well for those who choose against God. But that is what is happening in our time. We live now in the days long foretold where good is called evil and evil is called good. God help us. And I believe He will! Meanwhile many pray for the deceived, who need our prayers.

    video from a trusted source:

    _________________________________

    ** I found a video on that Trump parade! You can see the flags were impressive. I guess they stayed on til after dark when I saw it. If I had left earlier as planned, I likely wold have not gotten across the bridge. I am glad for the memory.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Hi Nanashi, I started this earlier today and now I am finishing it. I just hunted for a video about election results but so many I have seen are removed now.
    Why do you think they were removed, Eliza?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    But I consider this a trustworthy source,

    how can you personally separate out the trustworthy news sources from the untrustworthy ones?

    what is your process for reasoning it out?

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    how can you personally separate out the trustworthy news sources from the untrustworthy ones?

    what is your process for reasoning it out?
    Well like I said, I go for the whole picture. It has something to do with holographic panoramic approach. Some things just don't feel right, like, the football game analogy below. Just like that actually. SO MANY things don't feel fright. The media lie, they actively band together against Trump, they are not AT ALL what they are SUPPOSED to be, that which we have NEVER seen of them in our generation, UNBIASED. They "bear false witness" ALL the time. We get half the news, or less! They tell us what we are supposed to think on any topic. Education truly dumbs us down. we are SUPPOSED to be stupid, we are supposed to be empty buckets to be filled with whatever they want to fil us with.

    But I did give you one link that outlines plenty of evidence for the election lies. I do NOT save videos to my computer as soon as I see them which would be wise for building a case since things get removed quickly by our censors. The best ones do get removed AND they are hard to find if they are not removed becasue Google Search hides them. I need to start searching with something else. But I am not trying to build a case because I am not trying to convince anyone because i do not feel I am supposed to do that because it is like trying to defeat the devil on your own two feet; it is not possible. I know and believe by faith that God will act and he will expose it for all to see. All will see the evidence. It will be exposed for all to see.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  20. #140
    Farewell, comrades Not A Communist Shill's Avatar
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    Trump is more likely to go to prison than back to the White House.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Trump is more likely to go to prison than back to the White House.


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    The man who abolished net neutrality doesn't care one iota about freedom of speech.

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Default If Football Games Were Called Like the Election

    3 min. 15 sec., the end is an ad:

    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  24. #144
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    The question is, why is HS free to students but college is not?
    Because if it weren't free and mandatory, some of these young folks wouldn't go to school, and we have so much to teach them.

    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  25. #145
    Moderator xerx's Avatar
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    It's amazing how 'cancel culture' was leveraged to mask far worse threats to freedom, especially freedom of expression, by the Trump administration.

    Cancel culture is tedious indeed, but getting banned by Twitter and Facebook doesn't exclude you from posting on less mainstream websites. Cancelling net neutrality, OTOH, effectively gives ISP's the ability to throttle all traffic to entire chunks of the Internet. The Internet "fast lane" could be monopolized by mainstream media companies (like CNN, ironically enough), which would have the money to buy up those contracts.

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    Moderator xerx's Avatar
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    Cancel culture is dangerous and illiberal indeed, and its criticism is wholly warranted. But the noise against cancel culture has gotten loud enough to mask violations of other rights and freedoms, even very basic ones.

    These violations include the grotesque hysterectomies done to migrant women by the Trump administration. Such a woman would have to get heckled on Twitter for calling her guard a r3t4rd in order to draw attention to herself — at which point being "silenced" by SJW's would be touted as the real human rights violation, not the hysterectomy.

    Sarcasm aside, there's more to speech than the good speech / bad speech dichotomy. There's also loud speech, which drowns out careful, considerate speech that's nuanced and well-researched. How much freedom do you really have to discuss microbiology at a Rolling Stones concert or the Jerry Springer Show? You can turn off the Jerry Springer Show when it's on TV. You can't turn it off when it inundates the public square and becomes your democracy.
    Last edited by xerx; 02-09-2021 at 02:27 AM. Reason: clarification + punctuation

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    Why do you think they were removed, Eliza?
    Canceled? If they can be found they are not easily found but as I explained I have not spent that much time looking. What stands out most clear is the video footage of a police officer at the capital madly waving people in while others stood around and just let them in. You questioned the six people killed at the Capital riots. I also questioned it, as it did not seem to me what I heard in the news at the time. I did not hear the new story of six. So some policemen committed suicide after? To me that is the big story, but you can't find that anywhere. The media is silent on that. It has been on my mind because WHY did they commit suicide. They were doing what they were told, certainly, helping to create the fake news story they were supposed to make happen, using the Antifa protesters whom they escorted in from the train. Then afterward, what drove them to suicide? Who treated them how, to drive them to suicide? Or maybe it wasn't suicide? A lot of questions there. I would like the whole truth of that to come out. But that will take a miracle. (But I believe in miracles).
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  28. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Cancel culture is dangerous and illiberal indeed, and its criticism is wholly warranted. But the noise against cancel culture got loud enough to mask violations of other rights and freedoms, even very basic ones.

    These include the grotesque hysterectomies done to migrant women. In order to draw attention to her situation, such a woman had to get heckled on Twitter for calling her guard a r3t4rd, at which point getting "silenced" by SJW's would have been the real human rights violation, not the hysterectomy.

    Sarcasm aside, there's more to speech than the good speech / bad speech dichotomy. There's also loud speech, which drowns out careful, considerate speech that's nuanced and well-researched. How much freedom do you really have to discuss microbiology at a Rolling Stones concert or the Jerry Springer Show? You can turn off the Jerry Springer Show when it's on TV. You can't turn it off when it inundates the public square and becomes your democracy.
    What kind of 'cancel' are you against, xerxe?

    1. Do people have the right to choose which businesses they trade with?

    2. Do non-essential businesses have the right to be supported by the govt to remain open when the market has shifted and people no longer buy from that business?

    3. Is it that you want people as individuals to be able to own up to an inconsiderate comment and educate themselves and grow and not get labelled evil?

    4. Or is it that you just don't want the death threats part of SOME subset of cancel culture? (There are already laws against that to protect people)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Canceled? If they can be found they are not easily found but as I explained I have not spent that much time looking. What stands out most clear is the video footage of a police officer at the capital madly waving people in while others stood around and just let them in. You questioned the six people killed at the Capital riots. I also questioned it, as it did not seem to me what I heard in the news at the time. I did not hear the new story of six. So some policemen committed suicide after? To me that is the big story, but you can't find that anywhere. The media is silent on that. It has been on my mind because WHY did they commit suicide. They were doing what they were told, certainly, helping to create the fake news story they were supposed to make happen, using the Antifa protesters whom they escorted in from the train. Then afterward, what drove them to suicide? Who treated them how, to drive them to suicide? Or maybe it wasn't suicide? A lot of questions there. I would like the whole truth of that to come out. But that will take a miracle. (But I believe in miracles).
    When Trump was on tv, he asked his allied protesters to fight. The people who stormed the govt buildings, afaict, have virtually all indicated they were there in support of Trump. Occam's Razor indicates that it makes sense if we believe the most simple of the reasonable explanations. That seems to be that the ppl who stormed the building were pro-Trump and not primarily against fascism in their beliefs.


    Would anti-fascism folks prefer to have Trump or Biden as president?

    Would anti-Biden folks prefer to have Trump or Biden as president?


    AFAIK, one police officer was killed by the mob (and I'm not saying you're into violence just because people who share your preference for Trump killed someone), and later another officer took his own life.


    Also, both police officers' deaths have been heavily reported on.

  30. #150
    Moderator xerx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    What kind of 'cancel' are you against, xerxe?

    1. Do people have the right to choose which businesses they trade with?
    have to "go
    2. Do non-essential businesses have the right to be supported by the govt to remain open when the market has shifted and people no longer buy from that business?

    3. Is it that you want people as individuals to be able to own up to an inconsiderate comment and educate themselves and grow and not get labelled evil?

    4. Or is it that you just don't want the death threats part of SOME subset of cancel culture? (There are already laws against that to protect people)

    #3 for sure. People definitely shouldn't be permanently labelled as 'evil' because of ill-considered remarks. People have lost jobs because of stupid jokes about which they feel genuinely contrite. We have a mechanism in place to forgive worse actions (like shoplifting); if not, then we probably should.

    Additionally, the whole idea of dogpiling is bad in and of itself. Justice meted out by an angry mob isn't proper justice. It doesn't inspire feelings of confidence that an alleged transgression was properly understood or dealt with proportionately.

    Worst of all, mobs can be hijacked by provocateurs. I'd be genuinely shocked if the SJW movement wasn't infiltrated by paid, professional, political trolls, posting inflammatory rhetoric in order to paint the movement as unreasonable, all the while exploiting tribal conformity in order to pull the movement in more extreme directions. That's the danger you expose yourself to when embracing the politics of an anonymous mob.

    But more than that, people need to hear dissenting ideas for at least two reasons: in order to get a better grip on their own opinions; and in order to discover the roots of brewing grievances in the wider society, some of which are legitimate. Censorship is a dangerous game, especially for the side that engages in it. You may be able to censor Twitter; you can't, in any lawful fashion, censor the ballot box, as we found out in 2016.
    Last edited by xerx; 02-09-2021 at 01:31 AM. Reason: trimmed + punctuation

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    That said, are there people who fold at the slightest criticism, feel (or act) as though they were victimized, and use that to evade responding to cross-examination? Yes, and they've become tedious at this point. Heckling is a part of politics and always has been. It's also a part of life. A lot of these so-called victims need to grow a thicker skin, become more forceful, and adopt an interaction style that conveys information instead of feelings of persecution.

  32. #152
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    When Trump was on tv, he asked his allied protesters to fight. The people who stormed the govt buildings, afaict, have virtually all indicated they were there in support of Trump. Occam's Razor indicates that it makes sense if we believe the most simple of the reasonable explanations. That seems to be that the ppl who stormed the building were pro-Trump and not primarily against fascism in their beliefs.


    Would anti-fascism folks prefer to have Trump or Biden as president?

    Would anti-Biden folks prefer to have Trump or Biden as president?


    AFAIK, one police officer was killed by the mob (and I'm not saying you're into violence just because people who share your preference for Trump killed someone), and later another officer took his own life.


    Also, both police officers' deaths have been heavily reported on.
    What does Ozcam's Razor say about the these Capitol rioters who are known Antifa members posing for the news cameras here as Trump supporters?


    Since the many Trump rallies have no history of violence, while Antifa are known for their violence, then would Occam's razor suggest it was an actual Trump supporter who did the killing of the police officers, or, one of the Antifa members that police escorted from the train that morning, posing as a Trump supporter? Hmm. I think I will go with the simple straightforward explanation.

    Try using Duckduckgo search for "Antifa at the Capitol riot" instead of Google Search. You'll get COMPLETELY different results. I wonder why?

    Nanashi, why do YOU think the top results on Duckduckgo were removed from Google search?
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 02-08-2021 at 10:25 PM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  33. #153
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    In case you still labor under the illusion that BLM/Antifa agitators did not help cause the Capitol riot on January 6, the federal government disagrees.

    https://dbdailyupdate.com/2021/01/15...ement-emerges/
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  34. #154
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Default More riot links

    https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2021/01/06/who-helped-antifa-storm-the-capitol/

    This story has a video (a third of the way down the page) that I have been mentioning of police opening the gates to let people into the Capitol and another policeman in the foreground motioning the crowd to come into the Capitol. Not exactly "stormning", is it? Apply Ozcam's Razor to that.
    https://heavy.com/news/ashli-babbit/
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  35. #155
    Hot Scalding Gayser's Avatar
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    Eliza come on now lol... even an IEI knows how illogical what you just said about Trump was....

    Just because there was a large gathering of Trump supporters in your localized area & convention doesn't mean the entire nation as a whole wanted to vote for Trump (they clearly didn't) or there was a conspiracy. Trump voters are also naturally 'more open' about their beliefs. A Biden supporter is generally less in your-face about their support. Even in the Bible it says 'the meek shall inherit' the earth, does it not?

    I kinda wish Biden ppl were more 'oomph' about it, but I think it's like that stereoype goes that left-wing/liberal people are 'pussies' and afraid to stand up for themselves where some conservative fart-man str8 man asshole kind of just tells you about himself more confidently usually. That stereotype is often true in the real world. I mean who you vote for in the booth has no declaration on any fake Fe that goes on the outside. You could in theory have some loud, obnoxious Trump banner but then in the booth change your mind. That is like, really logically obvious... you just notice the Trumpers more because they're Trumpers and naturally more loud/confident. It's not any real indication that more Americans are for Trump.

    The Quiet Shy Ones Sometimes Win & You can't Always Go By What you See (and Te & Fe)

    I agree with you though those Deep State mind control people are problematic. They wanna take away all our freedoms and turn this country into some communist goverment-controlled Hell Hole. Not on my watch fuckers! /acts more like a tough str8 man for balance.
    Last edited by Hot Scalding Gayser; 02-08-2021 at 11:14 PM.

  36. #156
    Moderator xerx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    That said, are there people who fold at the slightest criticism, feel (or act) as though they were victimized, and use that to evade responding to cross-examination? Yes, and they've become tedious at this point. Heckling is a part of politics and always has been. It's also a part of life. A lot of these so-called victims need to grow a thicker skin, become more forceful, and adopt an interaction style that conveys information instead of feelings of persecution.
    BTW, I'm talking about hacks like Jordan Peterson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    #3 for sure. People definitely shouldn't be permanently labelled as 'evil' because of ill-considered remarks. People have lost jobs because of stupid jokes about which they feel genuinely contrite. We have a mechanism in place to forgive worse actions (like shoplifting); if not, then we probably should.

    Additionally, the whole idea of dogpiling is bad in and of itself. Justice meted out by an angry mob isn't proper justice. It doesn't inspire feelings of confidence that an alleged transgression was properly understood or dealt with proportionately.

    Worst of all, mobs can be hijacked by provocateurs. I'd be genuinely shocked if the SJW movement wasn't infiltrated by paid, professional, political trolls, posting inflammatory rhetoric in order to paint the movement as unreasonable, all the while exploiting tribal conformity in order to pull the movement in more extreme directions. That's the danger you expose yourself to when embracing the politics of an anonymous mob.

    But more than that, people need to hear dissenting ideas for at least two reasons: in order to get a better grip on their own opinions; and in order to discover the roots of brewing grievances in the wider society, some of which are legitimate. Censorship is a dangerous game, especially for the side that engages in it. You may be able to censor Twitter; you can't, in any lawful fashion, censor the ballot box, as we found out in 2016.
    I agree with a great deal of this. What doesn't sit right with me is this idea that a company owner can't be free to let someone go based on their actions. Why is Kevin being a Nazi and making Nazi statements publicly and then saying 'sorry' a reason Karen MUST keep Kevin on and not say:"You had a good run, but really, Kevin?"

    And it's great if Kevin gets it about not saying the Nazi stuff outloud, but does he have a RIGHT to a job? That's so far away from the typical views on workers have next to no rights that I'm used to in the U.S. that is seems terribly inconsistent.

    I'm not saying I think it's a bad idea for someone to stay at a job and re-make their modus operandi, but is it ALWAYS a bad thing for a person to get the feedback, 'I don't want you representing my company because you have broken my trust, and even if you now mean well and are working on yourself, I can't yet trust that you totally get it and won't express some of your hate-filled or bigoted views EVEN accidentally' ?

    YES, I agree the person's development matters, and they need love, but....is an employer supposed to be your support system in a capitalist society?


    Sometimes cancel culture (as long as it isn't doxxing/violent/harassment/punishing/condemning) sounds an awful lot like natural repercussions.

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    Haikus Computer Loser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    A lot of these so-called victims...
    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    BTW, I'm talking about hacks like Jordan Peterson.
    Wait, how is Jordan Peterson a "victim"? His philosophy is the opposite; taking responsibility of one's own life...



    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    people who fold at the slightest criticism, feel (or act) as though they were victimized, and use that to evade responding to cross-examination?
    Lol, again, please tell me you're kidding:



    Speaking of "evade responding," what a lot of these reporters do is ask questions with false assumptions built in them, designed to make the person look bad:

    "How shameful do you feel about your sexist views!?"

    "Do you think a trans woman is a real woman!?" (11 second mark below):




    You can see the reporters doing this the entire interview above. Why would anyone answer questions like that? It's bait. It's a setup. It's retarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    A lot of these so-called victims need to grow a thicker skin, become more forceful, and adopt an interaction style that conveys information instead of feelings of persecution.
    LOL.

    I would LOVE to see how you'd react when you're constantly misinterpreted by media, not allowed to use social media platforms, when your opposition plain out acts immature, and you don't have people constantly patting your back.

    Here's cancel culture rearing its ugly head, JP sure has thin-skin getting all emotional here with an auditorium full of people yelling at him



    It's like you're equipping yourself with all the weapons and advantages, while your opposition is handicapped, and you say "just toughen up!!!" lmao


    “If you’re faced with unreasonable opposition, it’s best to let the unreasonable opposition speak. Because they manifest themselves as unreasonable, and everyone can see it. So that’s part of the reason you want free speech.”
    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    and adopt an interaction style that conveys information instead of feelings of persecution.
    It's actually these students' feelings that are making them irrational and victims to logic / JP. That's why they won't let people like JP speak, because they know they can't use logic against him, which is why they resort to acting retarded.

    You got it totally backwards dude.

    It's REALLY weird how you take something and spin it to the opposite.

    Lol
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 02-09-2021 at 09:31 AM.

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    Haikus SGF's Avatar
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    @DrDonkeyBallz sadly JP is someone who talks and does not follow his own advice. He was on benzodiazepine for years and had to be placed in an artificial coma in Russia to detox him or he would have died. In his own words, it was/is worse than death. He doesn't really have his life under control, the man is/was a depressive anxious mess. He physically aged, can see it on his face from the ordeal.

    I like a lot of what he says, but his own example makes me question his credibility. He talks about it here with his daughter:



    He is a victim in a sense. The pressure and expectations he placed on himself were too much. Its ok to be human.
    Last edited by SGF; 02-09-2021 at 10:07 AM.

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    Haikus Computer Loser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    @DrDonkeyBallz sadly JP is someone who talks and does not follow his own advice. He was on benzodiazepine for years and had to be placed in an artificial coma in Russia to detox him or he would have died. In his own words, it was/is worse than death. He doesn't really have his life under control, the man is/was a depressive anxious mess. He physically aged, can see it on his face from the ordeal.
    @shotgunfingers

    He was on the benzo for anxiety stemming from an autoimmune disease. His dose was increased after his wife was diagnosed with kidney cancer. Benzos are very commonly prescribed to manage these kinds of things. The media reports it as drug addiction, which it is not. It's drug dependence from years of use. The "depressive anxious mess" he became happened during 2019.

    But even with that aside, it doesn't take away from his message / impact he did make. I think it makes him more human, which is relatable.

    Many great leaders, in fact, had a darker side to them. MLK, for example, was deeply depressed. But this wasn't always a disadvantage, experts argue that it actually made him more empathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    He is a victim in a sense. The pressure and expectations he placed on himself were too much. Its ok to be human.
    His main message is to take responsibility of your life. He never claimed he'd be invinsible.

    The pressure and expectations he placed on himself were too much...
    I think that's just a byproduct of striving for greatness via inspiration
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 02-09-2021 at 10:24 AM.

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