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Thread: 2020 Disunited States of America Election

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    riots declared in dc, pro trump rioters storm capitol hill. government put on hold. trump fails to properly condemn, wrapping nicely asking them to leave with another claim of landslide victory and voter fraud. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1783488.html

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    the biggest terrorist is trump, not islamic terrorism. islamic terrorists are just reactionaries reacting in an unjustly brutal way to western antagonism and war crimes, and imperialism, these white nationalists are just the devil led by the antichrist.

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    I find the whole set-up amusing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    I agree with you that Sanders would've had a tough time passing policies in office. However, I don't know if the third paragraph can necessarily be said to be the full story (at least in poor, rural areas). Even in counties where Trump won and other Republicans won, progressive measures (such as marijuana legalization, support for M4A) had clear majority support among the populace. While some might say that this is due to lack of education among the voters about what the parties truly stand for, an equally valid conclusion would be that this was a vote of lack of confidence for Democratic leadership, even when very progressive measures have widespread support. But I guess at the same time, the general populace may not care enough about politics to care to instill new leadership/want "radical policies," so I don't really know Aside from that though, I 100 percent agree that change won't even be possible until younger voters have much more sway in elections.
    Yeah, it isn't the whole story. I agree about the general apathy and political ignorance. The media is good at manufacturing both.

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    I've done some quick research about the possibility of statehood for Washington D.C. Due to the filibuster, it would require a 60 senator majority, which seems unlikely to ever materialize. While the senate just needs a simple majority to end the filibuster, senator Joe Manchin has made it clear that he will not vote to end it. Without an end to the filibuster, I'd expect little to no change (on many fronts, not just statehood) for at least the next couple of years.

    Joe Manchin has also explicitly rejected statehoods for Washington D.C. and Puerto Rico (he's a little more open-minded about Puerto Rico). He also refuses to stack the courts.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...0/nday.06.html
    Last edited by xerx; 01-07-2021 at 06:15 AM. Reason: rewording

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    While the senate just needs a simple majority to end the filibuster
    And here's the 'nuclear option' that lets you do it:

    A more complicated, but more likely, way to ban the filibuster would be to create a new Senate precedent. The chamber’s precedents exist alongside its formal rules to provide additional insight into how and when its rules have been applied in particular ways. Importantly, this approach to curtailing the filibuster—colloquially known as the “nuclear option” and more formally as “reform by ruling”—can, in certain circumstances, be employed with support from only a simple majority of senators.

    The nuclear option leverages the fact that a new precedent can be created by a senator raising a point of order, or claiming that a Senate rule is being violated. If the presiding officer (typically a member of the Senate) agrees, that ruling establishes a new precedent. If the presiding officer disagrees, another senator can appeal the ruling of the chair. If a majority of the Senate votes to reverse the decision of the chair, then the opposite of the chair’s ruling becomes the new precedent.
    https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020...-eliminate-it/
    Last edited by xerx; 01-07-2021 at 06:07 AM. Reason: rewording

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    To all who are not Trump supporters, hear this. As I am not a sociopath and do care about my enemies (even as they dearly desire I die horrifically) I will give you all some advice.

    Buy a gun. The Civil War 2.0 is about to kick off it seems now. Don't be the idiot who thinks gun control was ever going to work here in a nation founded upon it. 3d printers are a thing now and if you got one you can literally print most of the critical components of one. Just need a rifled metal pipe of X length and boom, print the gun of your friggin' choice now. Good luck stopping that shit!

    Buy a few big bags of rice/flour/cornmeal/any milled or easily cookable grain. Yeah, see, who do you think all the farmers voted for? Think they don't understand that all their "enemies" are city slicking dumbasses who can't even into basic agriculture? Hell, fun experiment, ask some random commie/ANTIFA/Biden Supporter how hydroponics/Aquaponics/raised beds work. How about crop rotations? Nutritional value of common vegetables? At this point, I'd say knowing the answers to any of those may get you labled as, you guessed it, a follower of he who bore the funny mustache!

    And finally, don't get in our way. Even if Trump fully cucks out, we won't buy it. After all, the PTB can and will put a gun to the heads of your own friggin' children if it means they can get what they want. Sadly for them, they can't put a gun to all those we may care about in every way and sense without glassing the whole damn planet. As they actually want to rule over some serfs, well, killing everyone including themselves is an obvious bluff that we can safely and gladly call them on.

    This isn't meant to be a threat, it's meant to be an exposition of a logical thought process. Bad shit, at this point, is going to happen. Say you're a cop in DC facing a mob of thousands. They send you a single thinly built man who has a very persuasive voice. He lays it out for you.

    "Ok, you and I may not agree on all this but here's what's happening. We're going inside that building because the only thing those sociopathic and satanic fuckers understand is fear. Thankfully, they're all a bunch of pussies. None of us have any weapons, our mere breaching of their sanctum will be enough. We are going to do this. The only question you have to ask is this: Is your paycheck worth dying for what you must certainly already know are the absolute worst examples of humanity? You've seen it all, you know what they are far better than most. Thousands of us, many already within melee range, and only a few dozen of you."

    So... how will you decide how this plays out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    To all who are not Trump supporters, hear this. As I am not a sociopath and do care about my enemies (even as they dearly desire I die horrifically) I will give you all some advice.
    Who're your enemies? People who aren't Trump supporters? Which of them desire you die horrifically?

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    Trump is not my cult leader. I disapprove of cults. If you can think beyond left vs. right, there is hope. If you can't, we are lost. If you can't see that, pity us all.

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    @End do you really think that you rust-belt / coal-belt / dixie boys would win a civil war? The first time around, your side wasn't industrialized. The second time around.... your side isn't industrialized.
    Last edited by xerx; 01-07-2021 at 06:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Yeah, it isn't the whole story. I agree about the general apathy and political ignorance. The media is good at manufacturing both.


    There is a base tone of spiritual dissatisfaction that can be sensed in most Western democracies, it's a crisis not only of democracy and politics, but of the whole western way of life(capitalism included). Right now, nothing gives people something to look forward to, people believe in nothing and end up emprisoned by the present.

    When I look at the pictures from the Capitol riot, I see that the big majority are men. Men that don't want to look forward, but want to have the past back. Wether it's the Confederation, a second Trump presidency, whatever makes them feel they have a hold on their lives and role to play. What does it mean to be a man in the 21rst century?


  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    To all who are not Trump supporters, hear this. As I am not a sociopath and do care about my enemies (even as they dearly desire I die horrifically) I will give you all some advice.

    Buy a gun. The Civil War 2.0 is about to kick off it seems now. Don't be the idiot who thinks gun control was ever going to work here in a nation founded upon it. 3d printers are a thing now and if you got one you can literally print most of the critical components of one. Just need a rifled metal pipe of X length and boom, print the gun of your friggin' choice now. Good luck stopping that shit!

    Buy a few big bags of rice/flour/cornmeal/any milled or easily cookable grain. Yeah, see, who do you think all the farmers voted for? Think they don't understand that all their "enemies" are city slicking dumbasses who can't even into basic agriculture? Hell, fun experiment, ask some random commie/ANTIFA/Biden Supporter how hydroponics/Aquaponics/raised beds work. How about crop rotations? Nutritional value of common vegetables? At this point, I'd say knowing the answers to any of those may get you labled as, you guessed it, a follower of he who bore the funny mustache!

    And finally, don't get in our way. Even if Trump fully cucks out, we won't buy it. After all, the PTB can and will put a gun to the heads of your own friggin' children if it means they can get what they want. Sadly for them, they can't put a gun to all those we may care about in every way and sense without glassing the whole damn planet. As they actually want to rule over some serfs, well, killing everyone including themselves is an obvious bluff that we can safely and gladly call them on.

    This isn't meant to be a threat, it's meant to be an exposition of a logical thought process. Bad shit, at this point, is going to happen. Say you're a cop in DC facing a mob of thousands. They send you a single thinly built man who has a very persuasive voice. He lays it out for you.

    "Ok, you and I may not agree on all this but here's what's happening. We're going inside that building because the only thing those sociopathic and satanic fuckers understand is fear. Thankfully, they're all a bunch of pussies. None of us have any weapons, our mere breaching of their sanctum will be enough. We are going to do this. The only question you have to ask is this: Is your paycheck worth dying for what you must certainly already know are the absolute worst examples of humanity? You've seen it all, you know what they are far better than most. Thousands of us, many already within melee range, and only a few dozen of you."

    So... how will you decide how this plays out?
    You're starting to sound like Antifa/anarchist crazies just before the BLM riots.
    ἀταραξία

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    Smile, stay detached and enjoy the decline

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    You're starting to sound like Antifa/anarchist crazies just before the BLM riots.
    He's sounded like a wacked out moron since the first post I've ever seen him make, where have you been?

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    ^^ anyone who still believes in democracy or political solutions is a moron. Get your lives in order and look out for your families and loved ones.
    The progressive libshits are out to get you guys, they have power on the left and the right, two sides of the same coin.

    Its all over, welcome to Weimerica. Same shit over the pond in Yurop as well. Its time to touch third rail and accept the truth of the matter.


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    I have a strong interest in manufacturing, and I receive emails from various parts of the US manufacturing sector.

    What I have seen in my life is that the owners of most small manufacturing firms hold views not too dissimilar to plantation owners before the civil war. To say they are conservative would be an understatement, which makes all the more remarkable this notice I got from Machine Design about comments from the National Association of Manufacturers, which calls the Capitol attack "sedition" and says that Trump should be immediately removed from office.

    https://www.machinedesign.com/news/a...ited-violence?

    Not everyone feels the same way as NAM, though, and those people have expressed their own views in the comments. Their views are very interesting to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post


    There is a base tone of spiritual dissatisfaction that can be sensed in most Western democracies, it's a crisis not only of democracy and politics, but of the whole western way of life(capitalism included). Right now, nothing gives people something to look forward to, people believe in nothing and end up emprisoned by the present.

    When I look at the pictures from the Capitol riot, I see that the big majority are men. Men that don't want to look forward, but want to have the past back. Wether it's the Confederation, a second Trump presidency, whatever makes them feel they have a hold on their lives and role to play. What does it mean to be a man in the 21rst century?
    I fully agree. These and other men haven't adapted well to the modern world, can't use their existing talents, and are being left behind. Trump and other populists are just symptoms of an underlying malaise that isn't going away anytime soon. Women, OTOH, have adapted to the modern world and are starting to beat men in a few important indicators.

    [/QUOTE]


    Fight Club is easily one of the most perceptive and underappreciated films ever made. The commodification—and the subsequent loss of control—of all aspects of life under capitalism is certainly unnatural and unliberating to a lot of people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    What does it mean to be a man in the 21rst century?
    If you look around, you will see that you are one man (or woman) among many others. Very, very, very many others.

    If the world contained only you, then you could do whatever you wanted without restrictions. Add another person, and your rights are cut in half.

    After you add a few billion other humans, then the fact that you have an existence AT ALL, much less one which allows you to live beyond the dreams of 99.999% of all the people who have ever lived, should make you realize that your scope for action has been radically curtailed. You need to walk a very narrow line to stay where you are.

    You don't have to stay where you are. You can move to Somalia, or to the middle of the ocean, where your rights are whatever you can maintain, but if you want the easy life you have, you have to conform, as does every other person in your situation who enjoys the fruits of the labor of others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I have a strong interest in manufacturing, and I receive emails from various parts of the US manufacturing sector.

    What I have seen in my life is that the owners of most small manufacturing firms hold views not too dissimilar to plantation owners before the civil war. To say they are conservative would be an understatement, which makes all the more remarkable this notice I got from Machine Design about comments from the National Association of Manufacturers, which calls the Capitol attack "sedition" and says that Trump should be immediately removed from office.
    God, this is so true. My old boss' job contracts meant that he basically owned your ass; if you created something on the job, the contract stipulated that he owned most of it. He under-payed his employees and gave the least legally-allowable amount of time for breaks and recreation. He also constantly complained about how going to dinner with clients was hard work. I'll acknowledge that routine meetings can be tiresome and unfulfilling, but so is the janitorial work that he payed other people to do. God-damn was this person entitled.

    He was also a massive sexist. When someone suggested hiring a qualified female engineer who had dropped off her resume, his literal response was that he would only hire a woman for her "ass and tits".

    There were also rumours that he set up a shell company to hide his assets from the government. He hated the government and would remind people everyday of this fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    God, this is so true. My old boss' job contracts meant that he basically owned your ass; if you created something on the job, the contract stipulated that he owned most of it. He under-payed his employees and gave the least legally-allowable amount of time for breaks and recreation. He also constantly complained about how going to dinner with clients was hard work. I'll acknowledge that routine meetings can be tiresome and unfulfilling, but so is the janitorial work that he payed other people to do. God-damn was this person entitled.

    He was also a massive sexist. When someone suggested hiring a female engineer who had dropped off her resume, his literal response was that he would only hire a woman for her "ass and tits".

    There were also rumours that he set up a shell company to hide his assets from the government. He hated the government and would remind people everyday of this fact.

    I've worked for bosses like that. One of then became a millionaire by hiring Manpower workers and only keeping those who proved to be most docile and accepting of his exploitation. I wanted to kill him every day. I dreamed of killing him at night.
    If I had had a foolproof way to kill him, though, I wouldn't have done it. Because the police would show up at my door and would say "We are investigating the death of Mr. Brown, and you were one of his employees."
    And even if I had God's word that there would be no way that I could be connected with his death, there would still be my natural response.
    "Yes, fuckers! I killed him! I rid the world of that evil bastard. Now give me a medal!"

    In my case, I found another job and Mr. Brown sold his business, became a rich and respected wheel in my church, and then died from cancer. I hope, I pray, that his death was long and painful.


    @xerxe, After I stopped being a wage slave and started consulting, and before starting a company and hiring others, I would sometimes encounter small business owners who would ask me to sign contracts similar to the one you described. I'd read it, and then I'd cross out the parts I didn't like. If they wouldn't sign the contract as altered, I didn't work for them. I mean, why make more assholes rich?
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-07-2021 at 07:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I've worked for bosses like that. One of then became a millionaire by hiring Manpower workers and only keeping those who proved to be most docile and accepting of his exploitation. I wanted to kill him every day. I dreamed of killing him at night.
    If I had had a foolproof way to kill him, though, I wouldn't have done it. Because the police would show up at my door and would say "We are investigating the death of Mr. Brown, and you were one of his employees."
    And even if I had God's word that there would be no way that I could be connected with his death, there would still be my natural response.
    "Yes, fuckers! I killed him! I rid the world of that evil bastard. Now give me a medal!"

    In my case, I found another job and Mr. Brown sold his business, became a rich and respected wheel in my church, and then died from cancer. I hope, I pray, that his death was long and painful.
    Ha ha, yeah.


    @xerxe, After I stopped being a wage slave and started consulting, and before starting a company and hiring others, I would sometimes encounter small business owners who would ask me to sign contracts similar to the one you described. I'd read it, and then I'd cross out the parts I didn't like. If they wouldn't sign the contract as altered, I didn't work for them. I mean, why make more assholes rich?
    I'm opening my own business too if I decide to stay in industrial manufacturing. I've had my fill of people like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    I'm opening my own business too if I decide to stay in industrial manufacturing. I've had my fill of people like this.
    Best of luck to you.

    Running a business isn't easy, but you can make it if you have good customers. The second most important factor in success is to have good people working with you, because they are the ones doing most of the work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    God, this is so true. My old boss' job contracts meant that he basically owned your ass; if you created something on the job, the contract stipulated that he owned most of it. He under-payed his employees and gave the least legally-allowable amount of time for breaks and recreation. He also constantly complained about how going to dinner with clients was hard work. I'll acknowledge that routine meetings can be tiresome and unfulfilling, but so is the janitorial work that he payed other people to do. God-damn was this person entitled.

    He was also a massive sexist. When someone suggested hiring a qualified female engineer who had dropped off her resume, his literal response was that he would only hire a woman for her "ass and tits".

    There were also rumours that he set up a shell company to hide his assets from the government. He hated the government and would remind people everyday of this fact.
    The irony of modern capitalism is that given a socialist/communist/marxist education, you would likely be a better business operator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    God, this is so true. My old boss' job contracts meant that he basically owned your ass; if you created something on the job, the contract stipulated that he owned most of it. He under-payed his employees and gave the least legally-allowable amount of time for breaks and recreation. He also constantly complained about how going to dinner with clients was hard work. I'll acknowledge that routine meetings can be tiresome and unfulfilling, but so is the janitorial work that he payed other people to do. God-damn was this person entitled.

    He was also a massive sexist. When someone suggested hiring a qualified female engineer who had dropped off her resume, his literal response was that he would only hire a woman for her "ass and tits".

    There were also rumours that he set up a shell company to hide his assets from the government. He hated the government and would remind people everyday of this fact.
    I wonder who he voted for in the past 2 elections

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    Time and time again, people try to solve these political problems, only to have it blow up in their faces, continue the status quo, or even make things worse.

    Voting and political activism doesn't work, or doesn't work anymore.

    Anybody taking this stuff seriously = common sheep

    You are all very delusional and confused.

    You guys actually think your opinion matters.

    What they show you in the media is for entertainment purposes only. They show it to keep people thinking they have choice, and that their friends who don't agree are the enemy.

    That's the purpose of the media- to divide, and get them blaming each other. I see that it's working perfectly here.

    Haha.

    None of this matters.

    If you want to follow politics for fun as a hobby, that's great. But if you engage in any action with the intent of actually changing anything meaningful in your life or your loved ones, you are literally wasting your time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Who're your enemies? People who aren't Trump supporters? Which of them desire you die horrifically?
    Well, try to see it from my end. See, the "woke" crowd didn't say shit when BLM and other such people were literally burning down their own towns and cities. Indeed, they said that "we should listen to their grievances" or "Try to understand why they're doing this" and other such absolute BS. Really? What about ours? Oh right, our "grievances" are the result of our "privileges" being "challenged" by what amounts to all the facets of polite society, academia, and our federal fucking government. If you can't see even in theory the absolute BS emanating from those faux moralistic prognostications I have nothing more to say to you. This sentiment is shared by them, but for the wrong reasons and from exactly opposed doctrines. People like me want to convince others I'm right. However, if those I want to convince view my attempts at peace as declarations of war well... I can't fix that.

    This is something most of the "woke" crowd fail to grasp because of their critical and absolute lack of introspection. As I am fond of thought experiments, piece this one out. Why would a group of conservatives, actual conservatives mind you not MKULTRA wind up toys, storm the damn capital building? They know that's the dumb thing to do but I mean fuck, what other option is there now? If they're essentially going to throw us and ours into reeducation camps at the very least we ought to fight it correct?

    I've said one thing about the holocaust time and again every time I was asked about my position on it: "The worst mistake the Jews made was getting on those trains without so much as a single fight"

    What we're all about to collectively witness is the fact that that particular mistake will not be repeated here. Americans are a people who have maxed out Individuality and totally minimalized "power distance" as a matter of personal pride and the reality of their own national myth. I mean hell, can you imagine any other nation that would "frag" their "commanders" and take pride in the fact they originated the term? I wonder if the spineless cowards we call leaders will dare to test these particular conclusions of mine... Much dark humor is to be had imagining the multitude of scenarios where we did frag our pussy ass commander and the top brass didn't dare to ask to many questions.

    Privates and Non-coms. Woe betide any pompous general/commander who disdains them!

    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    @End do you really think that you rust-belt / coal-belt / dixie boys would win a civil war? The first time around, your side wasn't industrialized. The second time around.... your side isn't industrialized.
    Counterpoint: Who currently grows and delivers to your door all your food City Dweller? Another one: Look at an election map by county from 2016 and 2020. Seeing a pattern genius? I'm seeing a ruling class/colonizers besieged. Y'know, dots of blue literally surrounded by oceans of red. You're a noble in their castle who assumes you can rule without the consent of those lowly serfs you rule over.

    Can you grow all that food by yourself in your little castle. With a proper solar farm, aquaponics setup, and a myriad of other things I know about and desire to put into practice one day? Yes. Can you right now without my help?

    I'd bet No and you can bet the likes of me know that. Back in the Civil War 1.0 days most of the Northerner's were perfectly able to transition back into being rural farmers if "industry" fell through. I can quiz you on a few things I bet will prove you're not even capable of managing a backyard garden without resorting to Google.

    I am glad that resourse exists because that means some people will be able to recall that vital knowledge, but honestly, you're denigrating the people you rely on. We grow your food, we drive your ambulances/trucks, we connect your calls. And, most hilariously of all, when the "MAGA" crowd stormed the Capital Building, your side begged for the National Guard to come in and obliterate those who, if they were BLM or ANTIFA, you'd say we ought to "listen" to. Which, by the by, only responded because Orange "funny mustache man" told them to. Process that will you?

    I said it above. Get a gun, get out of the cities, stock up on a ready source of calories, and don't get in our way. I do care for those who hate me, I only wish they'd at least feign to return the favor...

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Counterpoint: Who currently grows and delivers to your door all your food City Dweller? Another one: Look at an election map by county from 2016 and 2020. Seeing a pattern genius? I'm seeing a ruling class/colonizers besieged. Y'know, dots of blue literally surrounded by oceans of red. You're a noble in their castle who assumes you can rule without the consent of those lowly serfs you rule over.

    Can you grow all that food by yourself in your little castle. With a proper solar farm, aquaponics setup, and a myriad of other things I know about and desire to put into practice one day? Yes. Can you right now without my help?

    I'd bet No and you can bet the likes of me know that. Back in the Civil War 1.0 days most of the Northerner's were perfectly able to transition back into being rural farmers if "industry" fell through. I can quiz you on a few things I bet will prove you're not even capable of managing a backyard garden without resorting to Google.

    I am glad that resourse exists because that means some people will be able to recall that vital knowledge, but honestly, you're denigrating the people you rely on. We grow your food, we drive your ambulances/trucks, we connect your calls. And, most hilariously of all, when the "MAGA" crowd stormed the Capital Building, your side begged for the National Guard to come in and obliterate those who, if they were BLM or ANTIFA, you'd say we ought to "listen" to. Which, by the by, only responded because Orange "funny mustache man" told them to. Process that will you?

    I said it above. Get a gun, get out of the cities, stock up on a ready source of calories, and don't get in our way. I do care for those who hate me, I only wish they'd at least feign to return the favor...
    The United States is a highly urbanized country (as are all developed countries), and the majority of Americans live in those 'dots of blue'. The majority of commerce is conducted there, without which you wouldn't be able to export your produce to anyone. Most of the tools that you use were designed there. Without city dwellers, would you know how to build a combustion engine for your tractor? Would you be able to design a GPS satellite from scratch? Do you know how to make insulin?

    I'm not denigrating you, and there's no need for the defensiveness. I have a great deal of respect and concern for rural people, who are in fact badly overlooked by the modern political economy. I have a bit of a puritanical streak myself, prefer certain rural attitudes towards self-dependence, and intend to retire to a farm in the countryside.

    If anything, people like me are the ones trying to get your industry to come back from being offshored. There are different factions of mutually-antagonistic city dwellers because cities are highly complex societies—they're not a Neoliberal monolith intending to suck the blood of every poor farmer. That said, it's clear that much of the tension between rural and urban areas is over cultural rather than economic differences, with religion playing an important role.
    Last edited by xerx; 01-08-2021 at 05:23 AM. Reason: rewording

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    @End What I implied is that your threats of civil war are neither very credible nor particularly threatening. Even if you somehow enlisted enough oddball individuals to join this futile crusade, mounting an insurrection against the American army will go very badly for you.

    You are outspoken, I'll give you that, but dogged outspokenness isn't enough to change the power disparity between you and the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    The United States is a highly urbanized country (as are all developed countries), and the majority of Americans live in those 'dots of blue'. The majority of commerce is conducted there, without which you wouldn't be able to export your produce to anyone. Most of the tools that you use were designed there. Without city dwellers, would you know how to build a combustion engine for your tractor? Would you be able to design a GPS satellite from scratch? Do you know how to make insulin?

    I'm not denigrating you, and there's no need for the defensiveness. I have a great deal of respect and concern for rural people, who are in fact badly overlooked by the modern political economy. I have a bit of a puritanical streak myself, prefer certain rural attitudes towards self-dependence, and intend to retire to a farm in the countryside.

    If anything, people like me are the ones trying to get your industry to come back from being offshored. There are different factions of mutually-antagonistic city dwellers because cities are highly complex societies—they're not a Neoliberal monolith intending to suck the blood of every poor farmer. That said, it's clear that much of the tension between rural and urban areas is over cultural rather than economic differences, with religion playing an important role.
    I don't think a rural revolution is possible in a industrial society, and it takes a long time before a society devolves into a situation where any sort of revolution is possible. But it is this very failure of revolution and radical reform that makes fascism possible. And this is what happened to the highly cultured societies of Germany, Italy, Japan you could say it was indeed this great "height" of culture that made such a turn possible. Also Germany/Italy/Japan had the cultural/philosophical background which made Fascism preferable to isolationism. I see isolationism as the road US, UK will take, UK has already embarked on this with Brexit and really even before this with decolonization of it's commonwealth. US is beginning it's isolationist policies today even. I do not see this disunity as bad in our society because this is merely the fundamental contradictions of American society expressing itself, the problems were always here and now we must embark on the adventure of dealing with these contradictions.

    America's revolution was rather unique and I believe there is opportunity for a unique revolutionary process here, this is a process that has been analyzed by almost ever single revolutionary since it's occurrence and this new revolutionary journey that is underway will be watched for both its failure and success.

    It's my opinion, the core contradiction in America is it's roots in a tradition of philosophical universalism rooted in reason that was mixed with economic exploitation via slavery/exploitation. The north and south indeed. The end result is a false universalism embodied in white supremacy. The battle today is the same as 1865 but the emancipation(if achieved) should both be ideological and material. This will translate into systematic structural reforms. How to achieve these radical reforms, because in my opinion at its root ideology and culture is rooted in trauma. And these roots are baked into the structures of our society as defense mechanisms. And these trauma are repeated by the civilization over and over again like a question, which we expect the different results from the same patterns of behavior. But ultimately this repetition is also our opportunity for emancipation, which itself will also be traumatic and see us in another repetition.

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    One example that comes to mind of rural folks sticking it to those urbanites and intellectuals would the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia... Hardly an admirable group of romantic rebels come to rescue the country from corrupt elites, and also hardly motivated by anything we'd recognize as the conservative sentiments which we'd expect of them in more western backgrounds. But whether the kind of temperament most adapted to that state of living might make it just a matter of situational context is another story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Well, try to see it from my end. See, the "woke" crowd didn't say shit when BLM and other such people were literally burning down their own towns and cities. Indeed, they said that "we should listen to their grievances" or "Try to understand why they're doing this" and other such absolute BS. Really? What about ours? Oh right, our "grievances" are the result of our "privileges" being "challenged" by what amounts to all the facets of polite society, academia, and our federal fucking government. If you can't see even in theory the absolute BS emanating from those faux moralistic prognostications I have nothing more to say to you. This sentiment is shared by them, but for the wrong reasons and from exactly opposed doctrines. People like me want to convince others I'm right. However, if those I want to convince view my attempts at peace as declarations of war well... I can't fix that.
    Most people are hypocrites, especially when it comes to politics. But I think your sense of the "sides" people are on is misguided. You keep using vague terms -- "people like me" (who's that?), "polite society, academia, and our federal fucking government", as if they all have the same politics, and when you seem to be talking about liberals exclusively. And you talk about an urban/rural divide but don't seem to have an idea what's at the root of that divide or how or why it maps to a broader conservative/liberal divide. And more to the point I'm not sure you know what you want, or what the people you claim to oppose really want. You're angry but don't really have much idea what's wrong in the first place, let alone how to make it better.

    This is something most of the "woke" crowd fail to grasp because of their critical and absolute lack of introspection. As I am fond of thought experiments, piece this one out. Why would a group of conservatives, actual conservatives mind you not MKULTRA wind up toys, storm the damn capital building? They know that's the dumb thing to do but I mean fuck, what other option is there now? If they're essentially going to throw us and ours into reeducation camps at the very least we ought to fight it correct?
    Because the only interesting political acts anymore come from LARPers who, like you, don't know what they want and have no plan to achieve it. BLM was the same way; the 'autonomous' group in Seattle was the same way; the 'abolish the police' crowd is the same way. Black nationalists have a really similar mentality to you in particular. Everyone is the enemy, who hates the "real" working people who make the world go around. Even down to the tone it's the same: an air of melodramatic significance. "They're literally going to fucking send us to concentration camps." "They're literally trying to commit genocide against us." It'd be funny if it weren't pathetic.

    Another one: Look at an election map by county from 2016 and 2020. Seeing a pattern genius? I'm seeing a ruling class/colonizers besieged. Y'know, dots of blue literally surrounded by oceans of red. You're a noble in their castle who assumes you can rule without the consent of those lowly serfs you rule over.
    So, there haven't been too many revolutions throughout history. They happen, but most of the time, the nobility rule over people perfectly well. If you'd like to revolt, you'll need either good organization or at least a shared understanding of what's wrong. If I'm Bob, a 50-year-old farmer from Nebraska, what are you going to say to me to get me to stop working and go drive to the state capital and risk my life? What am I fighting for?

    Can you grow all that food by yourself in your little castle. With a proper solar farm, aquaponics setup, and a myriad of other things I know about and desire to put into practice one day? Yes. Can you right now without my help?
    Are you a farmer? Realistically, if for whatever reason farmers just stop farming, the government can just increase subsidies to farmers until they start working again.

    I am glad that resourse exists because that means some people will be able to recall that vital knowledge, but honestly, you're denigrating the people you rely on. We grow your food, we drive your ambulances/trucks, we connect your calls. And, most hilariously of all, when the "MAGA" crowd stormed the Capital Building, your side begged for the National Guard to come in and obliterate those who, if they were BLM or ANTIFA, you'd say we ought to "listen" to. Which, by the by, only responded because Orange "funny mustache man" told them to. Process that will you?
    Again, your "sides" aren't coherent. Who are they? Republicans? Plenty of ambulance drivers and EMTs vote Democrat. Even some farmers vote blue. And the people you're pointing out are people who act exactly like you, making a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. Retards on Twitter or wherever you're seeing them shouldn't be listened to.

    Wasn't it Pence who mobilized the national guard, not Trump?

    I said it above. Get a gun, get out of the cities, stock up on a ready source of calories, and don't get in our way. I do care for those who hate me, I only wish they'd at least feign to return the favor...
    I'm still curious who you think hates you.

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    I'm going to be completely honest, I'll never understand the human fascination with wanting to demonize other people. Sure, we all have boundaries and values and don't like when people step over that line. But when people openly decide there can be no peace or compromise between peoples, it makes me think humanity overall is pretty drab.

    some context
    Just saying this as someone that had a heated discussion a couple weeks ago with self-described "conservatives" that ended when these conservatives admitted that they think there can be no middle ground or compromising with anyone that isn't a conservative. This was after I had to endure what felt like verbal attacks for questioning them and trying to show them some kind of grey to their seeming political black and white. But it was futile in the end; and I was a bit dumb-founded at the total lack of Ne there. So this whole rioting in the U.S. Capitol just feels like "Idiocracy, Here We Come!"
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    The only problem socionics has given me is a propensity to analyze every relationship from the lens of socionics and I also see that it is worse in my boyfriend. Nothing makes any sense that way and it does not really solve any problems.





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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    @End do you really think that you rust-belt / coal-belt / dixie boys would win a civil war? The first time around, your side wasn't industrialized. The second time around.... your side isn't industrialized.
    Different coalitions this time. This time the pro-slavery side is Big Tech, Big Corp and also Big Agriculture. The first time around the pro-slavery dems were just Big Agriculture.

    Sounds to me like End is on the anti-slavery, pro-freedom side.
    Last edited by squark; 01-09-2021 at 03:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    @End What I implied is that your threats of civil war are neither very credible nor particularly threatening. Even if you somehow enlisted enough oddball individuals to join this futile crusade, mounting an insurrection against the American army will go very badly for you.

    You are outspoken, I'll give you that, but dogged outspokenness isn't enough to change the power disparity between you and the government.
    Who do you think the grand majority of privates, non-coms, and anyone of Captain or lesser commissioned rank voted for? They are the ones with actual skin in the game. It is they who will actually fight the war. There is damn good reason they tend to call everyone else in the military REMF's. Rear. Echelon. Mother. Fuckers. There's a fundamental disconnect between the logistics/command and the fighting aspect of a war.

    Now, those of us who are outside of that can tell you that the logistic side is what wins the war (and why I'm telling you my side is advantaged as we make the food you kind of need to live by the by), but good luck convincing a man or woman who is dodging bullets, bayonets, artillery bombardments, and all the other horrors of combat that some dickwad in the rear has it quite as hard as they do. Children study tactics and men study logistics, but you can't really fault that difference of perception. The "kids" get to see their best friends turned into piles of goo. Yeah, I'd rebel against them too and damn the logic. Frank the tank got liquified because of your BS priorities! Fuck you!

    You are a REMF, and I respect the work you do, but I'm also one of the few that actually can and will. And then there's the last thing that actually screws you over. Like I said, who makes the food? We may export food to you, but imagine we decided to NOT do that. Y'know, just because, for reasons. Like I said above in regards to the first Civil War. The population of the north still had the knowledge and ability to go right back to being farmers. Now? I mean, I believe the CHAZ gave me all the reason I need to not fear the cities at all here. 6 inches of soil heaped upon cardboard with plants still in their plastic pots and they thought yeah that'll work.

    If you question how and why dark ages happen, how civilizations can forget mission critical knowledge, I rest my case on that one. People in the cities have literally forgotten how basic bitch agriculture/plants work! That makes them the bitches of the MAGA crowd and, as we haven't forgotten what your side/the MSM had to say around May where D.C. was literally on fire? Yeah, get fucked. Pass a witch test or starve. At least we'd grant you a mercy you'd gladly refuse us...
    Last edited by End; 01-09-2021 at 04:43 AM.

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    @FreelancePoliceman. Who hates me and mine? You do, or at least those whom you apparently identify with do. Perhaps you do not and if you don't that's another point towards me being overly cynical.

    In regards to revolutions, well, I'm a fan of the Dynastic Cycle. See, the Chinese have a pretty good concept going. There's this "mandate of Heaven" you see. In Western Democracies we call this "The Will of the People" capiche? So long as you have it, you need fear nothing. The instant you lose it though, ho boy, you and your entire court are fully and thoroughly fucked. Fun fact now that I consider it, it actually matches up with my Christian beliefs. Only one Emperor lived to see the founding of the succeeding dynasty. He did this by retreating into a Buddhist monastery.

    As he was known far and wide as a hedonist piece of shit that'd be the exact last place his enemies would look for him. However, you know those monks would know that. Merciful as they were wont to be, they gave him that one last chance. He succeeded in passing their muster. He repented of his many sins and was likewise granted absolution.

    Here's a blog that basically lays out my feelings: http://www.scifiwright.com/2021/01/a...nt/#more-27280

    He's not wrong and his writings are far more compelling than anything Hollywood is coming out with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Different coalitions this time. This time the pro-slavery side is Big Tech, Big Corp and also Big Agriculture. The first time around the pro-slavery dems were just Big Agriculture.

    Sounds to me like End is on the anti-slavery, pro-freedom side.
    End is also a nativist IIRC, so it's a little more complicated.

    I can assure you that I am not unaware or unmoved by the anti-establishmentarian draw of the Trump movement. But it's a truism at this point that Trump is just another creature of the crony-capitalist swamp. I really don't see this person leading the change to some glorious workers' utopia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Who do you think the grand majority of privates, non-coms, and anyone of Captain or lesser commissioned rank voted for? They are the ones with actual skin in the game. It is they who will actually fight the war. There is damn good reason they tend to call everyone else in the military REMF's. Rear. Echelon. Mother. Fuckers. There's a fundamental disconnect between the logistics/command and the fighting aspect of a war.
    The vast majority of revolutions have ended in total and complete failure; countries have been historically successful at crushing dissent, and the United States has been no exception.

    Something catastrophic has to happen for soldiers to revolt against the country they're sworn to protect. Revolutions succeed in countries that are bankrupt and can't pay their soldiers. They succeed in war-torn countries that have lost a fifth of their territory in the course of a great war capitulation. They succeed when the officer corps is split down the middle; for instance, due to promotions being dispensed on the basis of patronage rather than merit (think about a country like Syria).

    It's not a hard and fast principle since anything is possible, but it's not easy to win a revolution, even in the aforementioned, non-exhaustive list of cases. There will also be other rising factions waiting in the wings, mobilizing their forces to strike at you. Even if it were easy to win a revolution, anything that's easy to win is easy to lose.


    Yeah, get fucked. Pass a witch test or starve.
    I don't appreciate vulgar insults being directed at me. If you want to argue like a gentleman instead of trade insults, I'll listen politely.
    Last edited by xerx; 01-09-2021 at 06:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Different coalitions this time. This time the pro-slavery side is Big Tech, Big Corp and also Big Agriculture. The first time around the pro-slavery dems were just Big Agriculture.

    Sounds to me like End is on the anti-slavery, pro-freedom side.
    get this: Twitter banned Trump lmao wtf. Now thats going pretty damn far and shows where these corporations basically stand at this point. Want freedom of speech, want to say relatively normal stuff? Well you can't and you better watch what you tweet or post, the police might show up at your door.. banks may refuse to do business with you or allow you to withdraw your money, it has already happened to ppl.
    Now I'm no fan of Trump, but this stuff is getting rather dire. After trying to move to Parlor, google said they will drop that app from their platform aka phones if they do not introduce much stricter speech regulations.


    First they came for the "Fascists"
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Fascist

    Then they came for the Traditionalists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Traditionalist

    Then they came for the Conservatives
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Conservative

    Then they came for the white men
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a white man

    Then they came for me
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me


    They have us here by the balls, these multinational corporate monopolies have to go. Pretty soon its going to be us vs the suits and the bugmen for sure.



    I dare any fellow socialist to come to me and tell me to support these corporate monopolies and the complicit state/government.. I FUCKING DARE YOU TELL ME TO SUPPORT OVERT FASCISM. Come on... do it , the rest of you hypocrites are doing it day in day out, sipping Starbucks coffe larping.
    Last edited by SGF; 01-09-2021 at 08:15 AM.

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