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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolita View Post
    This is just one of many vainglorious EIE Fe echo chamber threads created for image projection and self-validation. Get typed by G if you actually want to know where you fit in the Socionics system. All the guess work and “trying out” Se types means nothing.
    That's just one man's interpretation. A man who's good at marketing.

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    Bullshit. Interpretation has nothing to do with socionics.
    You don’t even know the structural foundations and rely on stereotypes to validate your typing.

    G is an LII. He’s really bad with advertisements and doesn’t promote his work at all. He studied under Aushra and helped refine and expand socionics to have practical application and tie it back to psychology. He has a research institute which holds real data studies.
    I find it ridiculous you would dismiss a PhD in this field by saying it’s opinion but rely on hobbyist Fe echo chamber who operate on spreading stereotypes and misinformation as being more reliable.

    Ok yeah, if you want to keep playing make believe and self type as whatever you want because it sounds good, then by all means, keep up the delusion. But you went around acting like you’re the representative of a type (SEE) when you haven’t been verified and now leaping onto a other type. This thread is just self-serving and image projecting as if you’re figuring out your type based on some collective consensus by strangers on the internet. That nonsense is not going to end because you’ll just keep seeking out random validation and you still won’t know what type you are.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolita View Post
    Bullshit. Interpretation has nothing to do with socionics.
    You don’t even know the structural foundations and rely on stereotypes to validate your typing.

    G is an LII. He’s really bad with advertisements and doesn’t promote his work at all. He studied under Aushra and helped refine and expand socionics to have practical application and tie it back to psychology. He has a research institute which holds real data studies.
    I find it ridiculous you would dismiss a PhD in this field by saying it’s opinion but rely on hobbyist Fe echo chamber who operate on spreading stereotypes and misinformation as being more reliable.

    Ok yeah, if you want to keep playing make believe and self type as whatever you want because it sounds good, then by all means, keep up the delusion. But you went around acting like you’re the representative of a type (SEE) when you haven’t been verified and now leaping onto a other type. This thread is just self-serving and image projecting as if you’re figuring out your type based on some collective consensus by strangers on the internet. That nonsense is not going to end because you’ll just keep seeking out random validation and you still won’t know what type you are.


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    Are you not just stereotyping people yourself, with all this Fe echo chamber talk? I joke about sometimes, but I don't take the stewreotypes seriously. In fact, I've actually been quite against typing people based on how they act. Because behaviour is only a slight degree of the whole theory. You need to take in account IME, mental states and all those things as well.

    And anyway, it doesn't matter if you give Gulenko, WSS or someone else your money. No one will really agree with you on your type. At the end of the day, you can waste as much money as you want to on opinions, but at the end of the day, it's just a theory. You are gonna get disgareements all the time.

    And just because I have an actual personality and I don't behave like you, it doesn't mean I'm not X type. And anyway, I liked you better when you were pretending to be an SLE. You were much less of a bitch back then. You were adamant you were SLE, AFAIK and you wrote a lot about SLE from the SLE POV, so isnt everything you're just typing to me hypocritical anyway because you paid Gulenko $120 and you're taking everything he says alone as gospel because of the placebo effect has had on you?

    You also sound like you're self-projecting on my thread as well, and you're clearly orgasming for a reaction from me, so instead of me stooping to your level and getting all worked up over nothing, I'm just going to leave you with this response. Go and annoy someone else, Kiana. I really haven't got a thing to prove to you. Go and troll someone who cares.
    Last edited by DEAD; 03-04-2021 at 04:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    Are you not just stereotyping people yourself, with all this Fe echo chamber talk? I joke about sometimes, but I don't take the stewreotypes seriously. In fact, I've actually been quite against typing people based on how they act. Because behaviour is only a slight degree of the whole theory. You need to take in account IME, mental states and all those things as well.
    I'm calling it what it really is, an Fe echo chamber. It's centered around people giving self-validating by repeating over and over what they believe until it becomes true. That's manufacturing reality, influencing the results.

    Whether you take the stereotypes seriously or not isn't the point. The point is that you seem to operate solely on using stereotypes to understand socionics which is what I pointed out. Proper typing isn't based upon behavior, but if you know the type aka the IMEs then that shows a window into the motivations and why someone does what they do and how they came to do it that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    And anyway, it doesn't matter if you give DarkAngelFireWolf69, WSS or someone else your money. No one will really agree with you on your type. At the end of the day, you can waste as much money as you want to on opinions, but at the end of the day, it's just a theory. You are gonna get disgareements all the time.
    Weak argument and lame cop out. I've said many times, they're not the same. Not the same in expertise, level of and depth of knowledge, practice, methodology. They don't even share the same purpose. The "no one would agree with your type" argument is pointless and has nothing to do with you getting typed by G. You're that concerned about what a bunch hobbyists type you based on the projections you give them but don't want to get typed by a psychologist who came from studying under Aushra who created socionics to begin with. Whether you agree with his typing of you, that's entirely another matter, but you're dismissing the avenue of getting typed by G altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    And just because I have an actual personality and I don't behave like you, it doesn't mean I'm not X type.
    Again, another weird defense. I never made such a claim. That's your projection. I think you wanted be SEE and spent so much time trying to emulate what you think an SEE is and when I came out as SEE you noticed sharply that you're nothing like me. You know that deep down something isn't right but your self-doubt has nothing to do with me. And for the record, I know some other G typed SEEs, and they don't really "behave" like me either, but we have eerily similar backbone and approach to information.

    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    And anyway, I liked you better when you were pretending to be an SLE. You were much less of a bitch back then. You were adamant you were SLE, AFAIK and you wrote a lot about SLE from the SLE POV, so isnt everything you're just typing to me hypocritical anyway because you paid DarkAngelFireWolf69 $120 and you're taking everything he says alone as gospel because of the placebo effect has had on you?
    LOL whether you like me or not doesn't make a difference. I'm still the same person, whether people take me as SLE from Jack or SEE from G. I've always called people out and I will continue to do so since that's just who I am. The only thing that changed is how you and others view me because you don't know what an Se lead type is like and are content with fetishizing the same tired Se stereotypes.

    Nothing that G wrote in my typing report is particularly enlightening or meaningful. He gave the type and simplified the results based upon my videos. All the psychological unpacking was done by me. I choose to dive deeper into socionics and expand my knowledge of the structural and functional aspects in order to gain more clarity and depth. I've talked with other G typed people and they all said the same thing, that they had to reframe what little understanding they had of socionics and getting typed has helped them reframe how to define the structure that it is and where they fit into it. That's the thing you wrongly dismiss. G can only tell you where you are in the system, but how you proceed from there is up to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    You also sound like you're self-projecting on my thread as well, and you're clearly orgasming for a reaction from me, so instead of me stooping to your level and getting all worked up over nothing, I'm just going to leave you with this response. Go and annoy someone else, Kiana. I really haven't got a thing to prove to you. Go and troll someone who cares.
    OH BOO HOO!! Kiana said something to you so now you're upset.

    Your thread is ridiculous and rifled with silly aggrandizement of being a type that you aren't. Three people have privately wrote to me about this thread months ago and suggested I go defend SEE since you're making the type look foolish but no, I dismissed them. I already knew you weren't SEE months before I got typed by G. The only reason why I responded to you now and said what I've said is that I don't think you're a bad sort, silly but not bad, and I think you might even have real interest in knowing what your type is for self-improvement purposes. You could take it or leave it. Just because I refuse to play along with coddling people's self-delusions and call them out doesn't mean I'm trolling. If I was, what I said wouldn't get under your skin so much that you would respond to me like a whiny lil bitch.

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    Okay, SEE with enhanced Ti, whatever you say.

    I really don't know why you're wasting your time and effort here on me.

    If you don't agree with my thread then you don't have to read it.

    I don't want to argue with you, and I don't want to waste time on you either.

    Maybe I made a mistake on my type, but people still come here and read whatever information I write, and at this point, whatever. I don't really care. If people find it useful, then yeah I'll keep posting here.

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    Also, I'd like to see the people who are giving off about this thread come confront me face to fce.

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    @DEAD I’ve read bits and bobs of this thread- at first I thought you might be EIE but if I had to take a guess, I’d go with IEE.

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    Why do many SEEs, especially women, smile like sharks with all their teeth and in a huge artifical-seeming grin? It lowkey freaks me out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @DEAD I’ve read bits and bobs of this thread- at first I thought you might be EIE but if I had to take a guess, I’d go with IEE.
    Why do you think that, though? I want an actual, solid reason other than “vibes”. I want a breakdown of where you see my IMEs working together in action.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Why do many SEEs, especially women, smile like sharks with all their teeth and in a huge artifical-seeming grin? It lowkey freaks me out.
    That also sounds like it could be an over enthusiastic ESE to me. But again, what do I know? I never actually smile or care about people enough to observe something like that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    That also sounds like it could be an over enthusiastic ESE to me. But again, what do I know? I never actually smile or care about people enough to observe something like that.


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    You not smiling EVER/not caring about people to observe something like that does not give much credence to SEE typing. They still have 4D Fe, they're unconsciously going to notice when something is not jiving with the Fe atmosphere, including how much other people feel at home with it, how much they smile, etc. And then gravitate towards the ones that seem to be jutting out of it, Fe polr style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    Why do you think that, though? I want an actual, solid reason other than “vibes”. I want a breakdown of where you see my IMEs working together in action.


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    That’s not how my mind works. I can’t explain socionics very well. I’m not motivated to learn things off heart, at least for now.

    But you’ve managed to get my attention, in a way that IEEs often do.

    Even the question you’re asking me feels like IEE-IEI interaction. You see, I read some of your comments and ‘reasons’ for typing you IEE would have flashed through my mind but by the time IEE popped into my head, I can’t really remember the reasons or it’s too much effort to explain them Sometimes contrary pairs find it draining to explain their ideas to each other I think.

    Also, the way you sort of bounce around a lot of ideas and have a bit of a bite to your communication style seems IEE. At the same time there is something over all softer (intuitive?) about your language compared to SEE.

    This article comes to mind too:

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/hiddena.htm

    Also- I have an IEE (tritype 714) friend so it may be that you remind me of him
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-06-2021 at 11:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Why do many SEEs, especially women, smile like sharks with all their teeth and in a huge artifical-seeming grin? It lowkey freaks me out.
    they’re feeling under threat..? I have seen SEI do it too.

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    Why do women smile artificially. While some do, surprise, it's generally artificial. Why do people fantasize over this concept of genuine vs fake? I don't get it. If a person smiles, it's a real smile. If a person smiles and is unhappy, they're actually theoretically making themselves happy.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    That’s not how my mind works. I can’t explain socionics very well. I’m not motivated to learn things off heart, at least for now.

    But you’ve managed to get my attention, in a way that IEEs often do.

    Even the question you’re asking me feels like IEE-IEI interaction. You see, I read some of your comments and ‘reasons’ for typing you IEE would have flashed through my mind but by the time IEE popped into my head, I can’t really remember the reasons or it’s too much effort to explain them Sometimes contrary pairs find it draining to explain their ideas to each other I think.

    Also, the way you sort of bounce around a lot of ideas and have a bit of a bite to your communication style seems IEE. At the same time there is something over all softer (intuitive?) about your language compared to SEE.

    This article comes to mind too:

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/hiddena.htm

    Also- I have an IEE (tritype 714) friend so it may be that you remind me of him
    i agree with this, a lot of IEE's tend to do this and kind of like entertain ideas to this extent, and talk about it, talk about it, and ask for questions,etc and try to figure it out so deeply. maybe i think EIE is right with the obsession of Se, EIE or IEE maybe is all i know and seems like a good conclusion. i think im IEE or EIE and even me i have even thought a lot of times i'm SEE and Se dom, maybe because of mobilizing.

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    Hopefully this post comes out in order. If not, blame the VBulletin system. I clicked it in order. Anyway:

    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    You not smiling EVER/not caring about people to observe something like that does not give much credence to SEE typing. They still have 4D Fe, they're unconsciously going to notice when something is not jiving with the Fe atmosphere, including how much other people feel at home with it, how much they smile, etc. And then gravitate towards the ones that seem to be jutting out of it, Fe polr style.
    Yeah. I'm generally not engaged with the atmopshere, nor do I really care a lot about it. I'm more of a person who likes to do their own thing and get things done, regardless of the atmopshere going on around me. Unless it's like a party or something, then I'll engage (unless it's terrible). Drink helps massively too. For me, it's not a constant situation but more of an on/off one. I'm not engaged much with the atmopshere because I don't see it as something of relevance. Especially when nothing is getting done. It's nice, but not the centre of importance for me. Sometimes I make my own if I'm bored or drunk but not often at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    That’s not how my mind works. I can’t explain socionics very well. I’m not motivated to learn things off heart, at least for now.

    But you’ve managed to get my attention, in a way that IEEs often do.

    Even the question you’re asking me feels like IEE-IEI interaction. You see, I read some of your comments and ‘reasons’ for typing you IEE would have flashed through my mind but by the time IEE popped into my head, I can’t really remember the reasons or it’s too much effort to explain them Sometimes contrary pairs find it draining to explain their ideas to each other I think.

    Also, the way you sort of bounce around a lot of ideas and have a bit of a bite to your communication style seems IEE. At the same time there is something over all softer (intuitive?) about your language compared to SEE.

    This article comes to mind too:

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/hiddena.htm

    Also- I have an IEE (tritype 714) friend so it may be that you remind me of him
    I said don't use vibes. And that was basically a long-winded explanation of the vibes you get. What concrete evidence do you actually have? Feelings aren't concrete. Ideas either, but sure. How do you even know that you're IEI? Assuming you are, just because I got your attention, it doesn't mean that I am an IEE.

    The whole vagueness of why people assume things is another reason that I refuse to take peoples reasoning without an alright explanation seriously. Reminding people of other people doesn't count either. I get it that it's hard for you to explain things sometimes, but jumping into things is just as bad as not explaining them at all. Being put on the spot isn't good either, but I dunno. I'm not saying that I expect a perfect explanation that makes 100% sense but since you've read more than one post, I expect things to be better explained.

    I don't think my languge is soft at all. I think that it's straightforward enough and that doesn't make it "intuitive" because I'm not being brash at you, or telling you that I want to kick you to the curb. I'm trying to be reasonable and that doesn't amount to jack when it comes to type. I think that you're just reading too much into it.

    Also, that article's like not very good either because it's basically minimising the IMEs to words such as "wealth", "love" etc. They are much more nuanced than that. It also assumes that each person from each type is certain to want those things. That website isn't detailed, nor does it explain its sources and conclusions well, so I don't reccomend it at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    they’re feeling under threat..? I have seen SEI do it too.
    What is this crap too? Why would you smile when you're under threat? Humans aren't alligators. 0 people I know smile when they're under threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alomoes View Post
    Why do women smile artificially. While some do, surprise, it's generally artificial. Why do people fantasize over this concept of genuine vs fake? I don't get it. If a person smiles, it's a real smile. If a person smiles and is unhappy, they're actually theoretically making themselves happy.
    Yep. Or just don't smile at all.

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    Sorry, I missed your response for some reason:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister12 View Post
    i agree with this, a lot of IEE's tend to do this and kind of like entertain ideas to this extent, and talk about it, talk about it, and ask for questions,etc and try to figure it out so deeply. maybe i think EIE is right with the obsession of Se, EIE or IEE maybe is all i know and seems like a good conclusion. i think im IEE or EIE and even me i have even thought a lot of times i'm SEE and Se dom, maybe because of mobilizing.
    EIE is the most overtyped typing in the community. I've been around actual EIEs and we have no similarities in any way, shape or form. For a theory based so much on systems and what goes on within the psyche, people seem to focus on the outer rings of the psyche and not on how the person processes information through all the IMEs. We have eight functions for a reason. "You seem obsessed with Se" is a terrible reason for EIE.

    IEE don't work out ideas deeply? I thought it was about potential, and bending expectations. Probabliity as well.

    And also... can you please try and make your sentences flow less like a Busta Rhymes song, and try to make them seem more coherent? Thanks. And please for the love of all things that are good left in this world, capatilise your sentences. I'm not getting at you but this is one of my pet hates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    Sorry, I missed your response for some reason:



    EIE is the most overtyped typing in the community. I've been around actual EIEs and we have no similarities in any way, shape or form. For a theory based so much on systems and what goes on within the psyche, people seem to focus on the outer rings of the psyche and not on how the person processes information through all the IMEs. We have eight functions for a reason. "You seem obsessed with Se" is a terrible reason for EIE.

    IEE don't work out ideas deeply? I thought it was about potential, and bending expectations. Probabliity as well.

    And also... can you please try and make your sentences flow less like a Busta Rhymes song, and try to make them seem more coherent? Thanks. And please for the love of all things that are good left in this world, capatilise your sentences. I'm not getting at you but this is one of my pet hates.
    Just because a type is overtyped in the typing communtiy doens't mean you can't be one. real life experiences are also something i can't tell because again, people put up an act on the internet and try to play a certain role, i don't even know if you can tell actual EIE's in real life when you have this much trouble dealing with your type for the most part, so i would say it's kind of irrational to bring that up but something noted. i also never said IEE's can't work out things deeply that's a bad assumption IEE's seek new ideas,new theories all the time but jump from one to one, back to back all the time which is what you're doing. also something as simple as "you seem obsessed with Se" can be valid, i noticed the earlier threads before and the other comments, and i'm using from myself what i do, and have done before, you seem like you're pretty obsessed with the image which is something i think as an EIE right now have noticed. i thought for the longest time i was SEE even ESE, and i would read and read and even convince myself that i was that type because of how much crazy things Fe can do, it can immitate,learn connected with Ne and play things perfectly. i also typed Enfp in mbti tests a lot. also i'm pretty sure you can understand my comments pretty well and comprehend it so it's kind of cringe you're asking for someone to capitalize, correct minor conveniences when you can understand the passage pretty well and understand what i'm saying if you were able to comprehend it and reply back to me. i tend to type fast and just write what i write, you can call it Ne if you want! also i would say to know more about your type look at what the comments above said liek bethany and the users above, they provided good reasons that are valid.

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    Lightbulb Dude, just learn already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister12 View Post
    Just because a type is overtyped in the typing communtiy doens't mean you can't be one. real life experiences are also something i can't tell because again, people put up an act on the internet and try to play a certain role, i don't even know if you can tell actual EIE's in real life when you have this much trouble dealing with your type for the most part, so i would say it's kind of irrational to bring that up but something noted. i also never said IEE's can't work out things deeply that's a bad assumption IEE's seek new ideas,new theories all the time but jump from one to one, back to back all the time which is what you're doing. also something as simple as "you seem obsessed with Se" can be valid, i noticed the earlier threads before and the other comments, and i'm using from myself what i do, and have done before, you seem like you're pretty obsessed with the image which is something i think as an EIE right now have noticed. i thought for the longest time i was SEE even ESE, and i would read and read and even convince myself that i was that type because of how much crazy things Fe can do, it can immitate,learn connected with Ne and play things perfectly. i also typed Enfp in mbti tests a lot. also i'm pretty sure you can understand my comments pretty well and comprehend it so it's kind of cringe you're asking for someone to capitalize, correct minor conveniences when you can understand the passage pretty well and understand what i'm saying if you were able to comprehend it and reply back to me. i tend to type fast and just write what i write, you can call it Ne if you want! also i would say to know more about your type look at what the comments above said liek bethany and the users above, they provided good reasons that are valid.
    Yeah. Just because I act like X type, it doesn't mean that I am X type. Surface level assumptions create too much confusion, and it makes everyone think differently about the theory. Just because I am obsessed with your interpretation of Se, it doesn't mean that I am EIE either. I really don't have that many new ideas, theories and concepts outside of this thread to be honest. I'm not great at coming up with them on my own all the time. It takes me a genuinely long time to develop ideas and I only really develop them if they are necessary to given topic. I'm not really image obsessed either, and am not meaning to come across that way if I do happen to. And also, "image obsession" is in the Enneagram too (if you follow that as well), especially within the heart triad and type 3. I think that because of that, someone who is SxE 3 might come across as looking xIE, or someone who is EIE might come across as super obsessed because of that fix. You have add all the elements together and not rely on stereotypes.

    And we have very different definitions of "good reasoning" if you genuinely think that the reasoning Bethany gave was good. I've already critiqued it and given my response and am moving on.

    Sorry if I missed any points but that genuinely was a pain to read. Very hard as well. You can space paragraphs out as well. That's why it's taking me forever to reply. I have to read the whole entire thing over and over again just to split each part up. And just because you have high Ne, it doesn't give you an excuse to type like a drunk toddler in the middle of a bender. Look at someone like @Eliza Thomason. Yep, she's an IEE but at least she knows how to organise the basics of the English language into something dechiperable and for that alone I respect her responses a lot more than yours. I mightn't agree with them but at least she has the balls to make things look right. It's just pure laziness and a total inconvenience. I'm sure you don't send texts to your friends, parents, guardians or whoever like that. The standard doesn't change just because you're on the internet.

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    @DEAD sorry I couldn’t be of more help, but you know, at least people are trying to help you. How long have you been reading about socionics? I knew my type straight away. It’s taken me a year or so to learn to type people. Discovering socionics was a very overwhelming experience. It’s better now.

    I looked back at some of the posts. You might not like this..but that post you made telling someone to ‘butt out’ really reminded me of my SEE siblings when I was younger. (They are both SEE and enneagram 7.) The amount of times I was told ‘stop getting involved!!’ in family dramas we get on better now..

    Do you identify as enneagram 7? I’ve been learning a lot about enneagram tritypes recently which is why I ask.

    I doubt you are ever going to like my explanations. I am not as articulate or smart as some people on here. But I have knowledge and experience of typing people. There was nothing on earth that could stop me learning how to type haha. I think it has to do with me being an E9- social instinct. I don’t think it is very easy to type people over the internet though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @DEAD sorry I couldn’t be of more help, but you know, at least people are trying to help you. How long have you been reading about socionics? I knew my type straight away. It’s taken me a year or so to learn to type people. Discovering socionics was a very overwhelming experience. It’s better now.

    I looked back at some of the posts. You might not like this..but that post you made telling someone to ‘butt out’ really reminded me of my SEE siblings when I was younger. (They are both SEE and enneagram 7.) The amount of times I was told ‘stop getting involved!!’ in family dramas we get on better now..

    Do you identify as enneagram 7? I’ve been learning a lot about enneagram tritypes recently which is why I ask.

    I doubt you are ever going to like my explanations. I am not as articulate or smart as some people on here. But I have knowledge and experience of typing people. There was nothing on earth that could stop me learning how to type haha. I think it has to do with me being an E9- social instinct. I don’t think it is very easy to type people over the internet though.
    I've been reading about the theory (on and off) for six years. I started in 2014 through to 2016. Took a break then came back to Socionics again. I think through Discord in like 2020. I'm still reading about it. Model A is the one that makes the most sense because it's absically the foundation of Socionics and you need to learn to understand other peoples' variations of it. Some people fit those dumb type descriptions and some don't, so learning about the IMEs seems to help a lot. And the dimensions/strengths.

    Yeah, I appreciate the effort. You tried. You actually type like a real human being as well, so hats off to you for that. And not like Sinister this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmJfE9T6Qxw .

    But honestly? I am tired of people trying to get involved in crap they have no business being involved it.

    I dabbled in it slightly but I don't care that much for enneagram. It's too spiritual and new agey for me. I know the basics of the theory but I've never really wanted to, or tried to type myself properly in the theory. But yeah, sometimes the Trirtypes are more informational than the single types and you can see how they work in tandem with each other. If you're really into that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    Yeah. Just because I act like X type, it doesn't mean that I am X type. Surface level assumptions create too much confusion, and it makes everyone think differently about the theory. Just because I am obsessed with your interpretation of Se, it doesn't mean that I am EIE either. I really don't have that many new ideas, theories and concepts outside of this thread to be honest. I'm not great at coming up with them on my own all the time. It takes me a genuinely long time to develop ideas and I only really develop them if they are necessary to given topic. I'm not really image obsessed either, and am not meaning to come across that way if I do happen to. And also, "image obsession" is in the Enneagram too (if you follow that as well), especially within the heart triad and type 3. I think that because of that, someone who is SxE 3 might come across as looking xIE, or someone who is EIE might come across as super obsessed because of that fix. You have add all the elements together and not rely on stereotypes.

    And we have very different definitions of "good reasoning" if you genuinely think that the reasoning Bethany gave was good. I've already critiqued it and given my response and am moving on.

    Sorry if I missed any points but that genuinely was a pain to read. Very hard as well. You can space paragraphs out as well. That's why it's taking me forever to reply. I have to read the whole entire thing over and over again just to split each part up. And just because you have high Ne, it doesn't give you an excuse to type like a drunk toddler in the middle of a bender. Look at someone like @Eliza Thomason. Yep, she's an IEE but at least she knows how to organise the basics of the English language into something dechiperable and for that alone I respect her responses a lot more than yours. I mightn't agree with them but at least she has the balls to make things look right. It's just pure laziness and a total inconvenience. I'm sure you don't send texts to your friends, parents, guardians or whoever like that. The standard doesn't change just because you're on the internet.
    Acting a certain type and performing the types of what a type can do makes you that type.... i don't know what you mean by "act a certain type" that in itself is wrong but you can resemble the certain type actions, type has to do with how you see things,simillar perception. if you guys have the same simillar perception, how you view things you can find a lot of things simillar and do certain actions or express certain emotions that will resemble the other individual. also your Ennegram point is valid and has a lot to do with it but the two systems can be inter connected, just like how SEE's can tend to be ennegram 8, EIE's maybe ennegram 2 same thing, bringing up your ennegram is pointless because i'm not talking about it. i also did see your "critique" and it's just seething and basically talking about how it's "vague" but how you're coming to the conclusions of your type can also be seen as kind of "vague" and not based on any underlying good reasons or how socionics work.

    (since you wanted me to space) in general i think you just need to maybe go read the socionics functions again or get typed by Gulenko at this point like Lolita suggested, instead of maybe coming here and maybe going off by opinions and still being unsure even when given articles,sources. that's all i have to say! also yes i do agree i wans't giving that much of an attempt to type correctly or space it because you're not really giving anything to work with or i just don't really see fit typing a whole bunch of passages and paragraphs when you will just over ride or over write it as "vague" or "dont think so" because maybe you just don't accept it. also you by any chance go by marco? or i might be confusing you with someone
    Last edited by Sinister12; 03-06-2021 at 10:59 PM.

  23. #143
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    @Bethany, DEAD is not IEE for sure. However, I have a theory. I have seen SEEs here who are CLEARLY that but insist they are IEEs. I see that happening for what I believe are two reasons. First, once they take that identity, they OWN it, and don't you dare mess with them by taking what they "own". Their S vs. N makes it kind of boring to revisit all that theory stuff, and they don't WANT to because they believe they don't NEED to. Been there, done that, and they would rather now focus on things more meaningful to them, things they like, the here and now, what's in front of them.

    SEEs claiming to be IEEs has happened here a few times, to the point where I began to wonder what SEEs are reading about themselves that make them not want to be SEEs! So, your observation about SEEs and they way they "get your attention" may be quite real - except you are unknowingly dealing with HINOs (Huxleys in name only).


    *****************

    I can't quite reconcile why Lolita, who was typed SEE by Gulenko - so that is most likely right - is so at odds with DEAD here. Confusing. But I have a real life example of why that might be so. The SEE person in my life (that I keep mentioning to DEAD), is super-surrounded by Supervisors in her life, and a close relation that should be a relief for her, is her aunt, also SEE. But their relation is quite cool. It's too bad. I questioned the SEE aunt once and her reply was that SEE niece is "all about what she can get from people". Well, SEE niece had some challenging years when her best qualities did not shine, and SEE aunt is stuck in this remembrance. I also know SEE aunt has had that failing herself in the past. So, I have seen two SEEs being critical of each others qualities before, and stubbornly holding on to a previous conception. So that could be the dynamic behind the current DEAD/Lolita conflict I see here. But I am not sure.

    I think the stubborn "holding on to conceptions" comes from the strong Fi of SEEs. They KNOW how they feel about a thing. I admire that, too, because I get a feeling reaction and I don't understand it until I have been off by myself contemplating it later. SEEs know themselves in the moment and are unafraid to act accordingly immediately. [I hold myself back to avoid saying something I will regret later].

    ***************************************

    @FreelancePoliceman, re: fake smiles: I have seen this from ESEs more than any, especially in that they are trying to make you smile at the same time, to cheer you up, for example, when they feel you SHOULD be acting more cheery. (Also they tend to be happy, so much of ESE smiling is genuine). But the fake one might be when they are trying to MAKE you smile.

    There is supposed to be something fake vs. real about EIEs; I forgot where in Socionics I read that. However, personally I have always found EIE smiles to be genuine and engaging.

    But I don't see fake smiles in SEE. Quite the opposite. I think that is because of their Fi vs. Fe. They feel no need to make you think they are happy. They are genuine, they feel and own what they feel, grumpy, happy, whatever, and have no need to please you with their countenance. So IMO, SEEs re unlikely to have a fake smile, whether for a presentation or as a cover-up for nervousness (see next).

    I have two kinds of smiles I am aware of. A genuine one, and a nervous one. The latter happens involuntarily on occasions when I am not feeling into the social moment and am trying to do what I am supposed to do, be happy. Definitely the former one is more common, since I try to avoid social situations I don't feel like being in.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    @eliza Thompson, here is an example of what I mean by a shark-like smile. Elvis gives the impression that he's preparing to dine on whoever took the picture. 'Artificial' possibly wasn't the best word to use to describe it, but -- ever so slightly unnerving, perhaps.

    It's interesting that you find EIE smiles genuine. I tend to like them, but 'genuine' I'm not sure is the first word that comes to mind when I think of the type. Maybe it's because they believe their own bullshit, lol.

  25. #145
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    ...How long have you been reading about socionics? I knew my type straight away. ...
    Which type do you think is more likely to know their type faster - IEI or SEE?


    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    ...I looked back at some of the posts. You might not like this..but that post you made telling someone to ‘butt out’ really reminded me of my SEE siblings when I was younger. (They are both SEE and enneagram 7.) The amount of times I was told ‘stop getting involved!!’ in family dramas we get on better now..
    I bet DEAD won't mind you saying that, other than that he is looking for something more explicit in a reason he is SEE.

    Your experience of your SEE siblings and relating that to DEAD is relatable to me. The SEE I know was just as harsh once telling me to butt out. She had no problem dumping the full brunt of her exaggerated anger at me (I did not need the 2 x 4!). That made me super cautious of her for awhile, because it shocked me. But I did realize I'd been butting in, though I was unaware until a much later time how much of a drama she was embroiled in when I put my unapplied-for opinion out there. It is one reason why I seek to understand SEE more now. Not only do I not want anyone anger at me, I don't want to make someone suffer that anger. I don't want to be the cause of someone's stress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    ... I am not as articulate or smart as some people on here.
    I think IEI's often understand more than they can articulate.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  26. #146
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    I don't think my language is soft at all. I think that it's straightforward enough...
    Definitely SEE is straightforward vs. soft. Other types, the opposite. I try to be both, but soft tends to be dominant. SEI types are more soft than straightforward.

    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    What is this crap too? Why would you smile when you're under threat? Humans aren't alligators. 0 people I know smile when they're under threat.
    Well, I do that , and I think it looks a bit goofy so I am not proud, but I explained that at the end of post #172. That nervous smile, that comes from what I said there, as well as the need to be alone to figure out what I am feeling -- but I am not alone, I am in a social place I don't want to be in with eyes on me when I don't want them to be, and I feel this need to act like how I perceive I "should" act (happy and carefree). But SEEs don't do have this quirk, due, among other things, to their Fi-confidence. And that straightforwardness about them, where they are just being themselves and are not concerned what you think of them for being themselves. I see that in every SEE, and it seems to be a "mark" of SEE.


    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    ... I really don't have that many new ideas, theories and concepts outside of this thread to be honest. I'm not great at coming up with them on my own all the time. It takes me a genuinely long time to develop ideas and I only really develop them if they are necessary to given topic....
    SEE evidence here.


    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    I'm not really image obsessed either, ...
    Yes, SEEs aren't. They like to look good, and take care to, and have a flair for it. But not image obsessed.


    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    And we have very different definitions of "good reasoning" if you genuinely think that the reasoning ... was good. I've already critiqued it and given my response and am moving on. ...
    Another SEE tell, to me, in that SEEs don't like to belabor something they are done with.

    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    Sorry if I missed any points but that genuinely was a pain to read. Very hard as well. You can space paragraphs out as well. That's why it's taking me forever to reply. I have to read the whole entire thing over and over again just to split each part up. And just because you have high Ne, it doesn't give you an excuse to type like a drunk toddler in the middle of a bender....
    LOL, that is another SEE-tell to me, you being so frank in this way.

    And thank you, by the way for the compliment. : ) I appreciate it. I do try to write clearly.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  27. #147
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    @eliza Thompson, here is an example of what I mean by a shark-like smile. Elvis gives the impression that he's preparing to dine on whoever took the picture. 'Artificial' possibly wasn't the best word to use to describe it, but -- ever so slightly unnerving, perhaps.
    I have never thought of a type for elvis and not sure I have an idea... EIE?? Really not sure though. What stands out to me about elvis is I once saw only positive in him (not atypical of me) but later now I glimpse a shark-like aura that is deeply not good. Like he could be the truly evil twin of that Pastor Bob Joyce (who does NOT give me the same evil vibe but does give me the vibe he has a secret, and anyway Bob is quite the doppelganger in face and build and features and hands and gestures and VOICE.... so the twin theory works for me. Raised elsewhere...).

    It's interesting that you find EIE smiles genuine. I tend to like them, but 'genuine' I'm not sure is the first word that comes to mind when I think of the type. Maybe it's because they believe their own bullshit, lol.[/QUOTE] Yes, I like the smiles too and the genuine idea might have been my assumption. They are genuinely charming though.

    _
    P.S. Just saw this. Interesting. https://www.facebook.com/evidenceelv...7372268413481/
    Andthis: https://www.facebook.com/evidenceelv...5186270298734/
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 03-07-2021 at 02:52 AM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  28. #148
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
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    Eliza Thompson, to be clear I type Elvis as SEE, not EIE. I picked him because I assumed he was typed that way by most people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    @FreelancePoliceman do you have a guess as to which function/s give SEEs that kind of smile
    I don’t think it’s just one function; I only really get that impression from SEEs. Probably valued Se+4D Fe.

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I don’t think it’s just one function; I only really get that impression from SEEs. Probably valued Se+4D Fe.
    On the other hand, if he is SEE (I don't know), he is not a typical one. He is (was?) in fact an actor and a persona, and a smile to everyone is part of the role. Like his job.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  31. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    @eliza Thompson, here is an example of what I mean by a shark-like smile. Elvis gives the impression that he's preparing to dine on whoever took the picture. 'Artificial' possibly wasn't the best word to use to describe it, but -- ever so slightly unnerving, perhaps.

    It's interesting that you find EIE smiles genuine. I tend to like them, but 'genuine' I'm not sure is the first word that comes to mind when I think of the type. Maybe it's because they believe their own bullshit, lol.
    Do you have another example, on a woman preferably? I find Elvis creepy in general, and can't tell if the qualities of this smile stem from that creepiness or the alleged sharkness of SEE smiles. I probably do smile like a self satisfied shark though. Because as @Eliza Thomason said, my smiles are not motivated by the atmosphere, they are not a response to it, instead they come from my own feelings. If I'm feeling good chances are I'm also feeling very confident and ready to work the room. I guess it is sort of ominous.

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    Yeah. I'm generally not engaged with the atmopshere, nor do I really care a lot about it. I'm more of a person who likes to do their own thing and get things done, regardless of the atmopshere going on around me. Unless it's like a party or something, then I'll engage (unless it's terrible). Drink helps massively too. For me, it's not a constant situation but more of an on/off one. I'm not engaged much with the atmopshere because I don't see it as something of relevance. Especially when nothing is getting done. It's nice, but not the centre of importance for me. Sometimes I make my own if I'm bored or drunk but not often at all.
    Actually @DEAD what you say here does not discount SEE. The thing with high Fe is that even if it's unvalued, the demand on you by the emotional atmosphere and the pull, the engagement, is recognized. What I mean by that is you can tell where, so to speak, the Fe energy in the room is, how is it like, positive or negative, etc. And then with demo Fe it's up to you to decide whether you want to engage with it because of X reasons (usually for me it's because I consciously choose not to bring the mood down, but there are times where I consciously choose to bring the mood down as well). The way I see Fe in ESEs is this bubbly, constantly positive - even when they're talking about negative things - aura, and with EIEs it's this dramatic, intense, emotionally charged aura. Whereas for demo Fe, in SEE and IEE, it's like a willful engagement. It's an activation, it goes from a state from not engaging Fe to consciously activating it for a specific reason - not a constant emotional output.

    So honestly you could just not be seeing any reasons to engage in a Fe way with people at all, because they're not worth it, etc.

  33. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    I probably do smile like a self satisfied shark though... I guess it is sort of ominous.
    I couldn't resist the urge sry..


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    Why do people use TikTok? It's a cesspool of everything that's wrong with society today, and a major waste of time.
    Last edited by DEAD; 08-17-2021 at 10:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    Why do people use TikTok? It's a cesspool of everything that's wrong with society today, and a major waste of time.
    The dopamine slot was open, probably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlier View Post
    The dopamine slot was open, probably.
    There are much better ways to get a dopamine hit than a moment of approval amongst Gen Z.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    There are much better ways to get a dopamine hit than a moment of approval amongst Gen Z.


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    Yeah, so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlier View Post
    Yeah, so?
    And more productive ways than bowing down to a bunch of unoriginal brats.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DEAD View Post
    Why do people use TikTok? It's a cesspool of everything that's wrong with society today, and a major waste of time.
    I use it bc the dopamine slot was open, as @Outlier said lmfao. Vine was popular before TikTok too, and young people that have grown up with access to the internet seek types of entertainment that will give them immediate gratification. Also the algorithm is good at finding things you like and showing you more of those, so if you like a specific thing it's going to show you that + TikToks related to your demographic (age, sexual orientation, race, gender) that combined make for a very addictive experience. It's a lot more personalized than YouTube. And once you get past what's called 'straight TikTok' (where a lot of the bullshit dances and trends are) there is a lot of funny and creative content. Although, I guess you could call that debatable too, but I'm gen Z and hence biased.

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    I definitely, 100% agree it's a waste of time in the end, though.

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