I think that I am mistyped.
That or a Delta ST. I ruled out ESI because that means genuinely giving a crap about ethics and morals and seeing the world totally through them. And I'm obviously not LSI because I don't need everything to be so hevily structured, nor rely solely on logic judgements. I think that IJ is too restricting, and I also think that I'm probably not an introverted type. I don't really spend a lot of time inside my mind. I'm most likely not an NT or NF type because I do not resonate with those IMEs or Alpha SF, so that leaves Beta ST, Gamma SF and Delta ST.
Yeah, if I am a Delta type, it's going to be an ST type because I do not think that I am intuitive, feeling type (NF) because I don't use Ne as a dominant function, and I don't have PoLR/Role Se. I definitely am not an idealist, nor am I much of a Humanitarian at all. I've been called pragmatic more times than I have a humanist. I do think that if Quadras have any value to them (which they might, but to me they come across as pretty "clique-ish", which may also be a product of the translations from Russian as well). I guess I have to do more research into the Quadras and see if they're as valid as I think they are:
I think maybe I have Ti because:
- I want things to make sense for me, no matter what the case may be.
- I like to organise things based on an order that I think works best based on size (probably not Ti, but anyway).
- I like to learn things, and for them to be effective.
- I like to store up facts, and I like to accumulate knowledge about topics.
- I admit that I like to debate things for fun, but it's not a priority of mine.
- I try to be conistent and calm when I can (it's mostly my default mode).
- I also admit that I'm not the best arguer in terms of 'logic', unless I have my facts straight and my arguments ready (again, probably just common debate practice), but I can convince people nonetheless.
That's what I think. A lot of people think I am either SLE or SEE. It's mostly the SLE that think I am SEE, and the SEE that think I am SLE, weirdly enough. I also get the odd SLI/SLE suggestion, and have gotten LSI before. It's weird.
Your self-description seems inconsistent which may point to XEE but this may be due to word selection also:
to make sense, no matter what the case may be is more T-like
organise things based on an order is certainly Se
to learn things, and for them to be effective is more Ip-like
store up facts, and accumulate knowledge is more Ip-like
like to debate things for fun is more N-like
consistent and calm is more Ij-like
not the best arguer and arguments ready is more Ij-like
a.k.a. I/O
To be honest, some of the most inconsistent people I know are logical types and I don't think that has much to do with Typology in general. I think that's just "human things" and should be accounted for as such. No one is going to be totally consistent, or inconsistent. I don't know why that's counted as a part of a type at all. And I'm not really expecting to be accurately typed from that list. I'm just giving reasons and thoughts on the spot as to why I might be Ti ego. But thanks for your insight and breakdown of things but according that, I am probably more ST than SF or NF.
@DEAD
People that have a solid knowledge base in Socionics yet still have a lot of difficulty self-typing can usually trace the cause to belonging to a strong lead or creative subtype. EX: My logic gave me higher intuition than other SLIs and obscured some base function traits. Hope that helps.
Some body language/facial expression resource for your top 2 types
SEE
SLE
Barring psychological problems that would make any type inconsistent, Eps tend to be unfocused with respect to themselves mostly because their noses are pointed outward. They can be very objective and pursue things relentlessly but they simply don't seem to give much priority to analysis as if they don't really want the answer because they're only in it for the journey and the novel information that it might produce. This is perhaps why their duals are critical observers. I've had to stop many Ep and nail their feet to the floor in order to get a product because when they're forced to think seriously long enough, they can be the most insightful. However, many seem to lose faith in themselves and their abilities.
a.k.a. I/O
Gulenko: "LIE interacts with other people at close psychological distances. Democratic. Predisposed towards positive attitude and friendliness on his territory. Feels relaxed in an atmosphere of warm, sincere, soulful communication. One should settle disagreements with him in an informal atmosphere, first persuading him of good intentions. He is much in need of reliable, stable human relations. Due to his inability to immediately recognize falsity can allow himself to get drawn into poor company and questionable enterprises. Appreciates reliable, time-tested friends. Usually aware that he can be too insensitive and inattentive in relation to others and is wary of this trait in himself. Ruining his relations with someone searches for methods to make amends. To this end, gives gifts or shows a particular concern for his partner."
Aushra & Weisband: "Optimistic. He quickly reacts to everything that brings emotions, especially positive. He is as if preprogrammed for rising spirits of his dual (The Guardian) who always looks somewhat scared or angry. He permanently irradiates friendliness, positive emotions, and smiles. He tries to make his partner laugh, shakes and hassles her in all possible ways, until she finally reacts, either positively or negatively, otherwise he will not have information about his condition (of course, in this sentence HE and SHE pronouns may be used vice versa). He likes to relate and to discuss what he has read and heard. It is easy for him to start up a conversation with a person he has never been familiar with.
5. Love for life. He searches permanent and constant human relations. He does not understand very well feelings and attractions of other people; this is why he is careful in this field and is afraid of being funny. He much values human life"
I'm sorry but last time I checked this was the ESFp thread.
Butt out.
Butt out of things not involving you.
Butt out of things involving others people, that's not you.
Unless someone asks for your opinion, stay away and don't make things worse. Stay out and let people solve their own issues.
Stop trying to make things better, when you're making them harder to fix. When your method isn't working. Don't say things for the sake of it. If someone wants your involvement. they'll let you know. Until then, butt out. Also, don't make things not involving you in any way, shape or form about you. If you want that, there are plenty more places to go. Stop using the inappropriate places for discussing things not involving the topic at hand, and most of all, don't try and play the hero. It makes you out to be the villain.
Why can't people just have some common human decency and get off their high horses and just get on with their lives?
1. Probably not but they're not that dispassionate either.
2. Link to their channel? Can't find them on YouTube.
3. Which guy? That's very vague.
4. Don't care about VI, it's unreliable and you can't tell someone's type from how they look.
I read this as Gamma, not gnome. But yes, it still stinks because farts are a gas. Not every gas is loud. Gases are silent, but deadly.
"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
.
.
.
DJ did a GREAT job here explaining the SLE/SEE differences. A brother-in-law is a SLE, who always makes top salesman no matter what he sells. I was thinking becasue he is not adverse to lying, but probably it is what DJ says here. I love how DJ explains his thinking because really this is so much like how my son thinks.
So @DEAD if you are, as you say, sometimes between SEE and SLE, that video is good. But I think you are SEE! So you know what subtype you are? (See: https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/...ESFp/subtypes/)
Both SE and SLE have a commanding, direct way. The differences are well explained here.
The SEE most prominent in my life occasionally displays logic issues such that I am often trying to understand where her logic comes from that I can't follow. There is usually misinformation involved. The misinformation is stated VERY confidently, Definitely she is not open to questioning of the fact she shared; it's stated as a given. Not all the time, but sometimes, leaving me each time feeling feeling blocked and puzzled. In a way that I have not seen in other types. My response now is to say, "Oh, okay. Interesting. I don't know much about that" and look for something else she says to focus on, like, what am I learning about what she values, from what she is expressing.
_______________
[(This is off-topic.) DJ's small selection of videos on youtube include one on ENFP, but that was the most disjointed evaluation of ENFP I have ever seen - I believe it was MBTI bec. he said we get along best with INTJ - no! And worst with ISTP - not! I think he has those crossover issues of typing with MBTI/Socionics, which I don't have because I think I did MBTI typing approach very differently. Less function based. He has some very good insights - I love the sock analogy. It is especially interesting because my son is SLE, so it is interesting to hear SLE explain an IEE. But much I do not relate to me or any IEEI have known, so, I think DJ must have long known an unhealthy IEE, is all I can figure. Though he keeps hitting on true things about us regular IEEs, too.]
Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 02-20-2021 at 07:21 PM.
"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
.
.
.
@DEAD
Your 'butt out' post was fucking awesome. I admire your ability to be direct and blunt like that. So maybe u are my dual? Either way regardless of your type you are cool in my book and I like you.
Haha reminds me of this lady:
1269894973bent.gif
"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
.
.
.
1. Well compared to most people, I guess that I am. I’m usually pretty neutral most of the time unless I get really excited which is rare.
2. I’ll look at it later. I’ll reply on this thread in more analyses or DMs if you want.
3. Okay that’s fair enough. Sometimes people look like that, sometimes they don’t. Not a strong enough correlation.
Marged your two quotes into one answer by the way.
1. Books, anything on my desk etc. I also tend to organise those things in order of their usefulness if I need easy access to them. It’s situational for me. Depends on what I’m doing and where I am.
2. I remember watching some of DJs videos a while back and I found myself agreeing with his ESTP videos a lot naturally. Yeah to be honest, I’m not bad at selling things either. I know in MBTI, they are known was the salesmen in some circles.
3. I read those descriptions and others and I really think that descriptions are not as good compared to other methods.. I think that IMEs alone are a much better way to explain types because people who have differing personalities but who also match the IMEs of said type, but not the descriptions someone sends them makes things more confusing for them. Especially when people say that they can't be said type because they don't match the archetypes of said descriptions and I do tend to find them a bit vague at the best of times. And also, the translations seem to make things seem a bit off and confusing for people as well at times.
4. I don’t understand that. That just sounds like she’s proud and ignorant and doesn’t to her research. Every decent person who wants to argue or state information will at least research the background enough to know what they’re talking about. I tend to question a lot of people and information that I say. And even the things that I say because if you don’t question anything, then you won’t learn anything and you won’t develop critical thinking skills.
5. Exactly. This is where the descriptions contradict things as well. If you know what I mean? Not everyone in every type is healthy, which is another cornerstone that is needed for descriptions. That also confuses people. Some people can come across superficially as other types because of that.
6. You really think I have a personality like your SEE friend? Doesn’t mean I am one. Just like sitting in a garage doesn’t make me a car. Brrmmm!
Haha. Of course. I’d rather be blunt than liked and a plastic person.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Judging someone based on behaviours/archetypes is like judging them based on IQ. It doesn't tell the whole story. It's only good for certain things. Not everything. It doesn't tell the whole sum of its parts.
Interesting because next time I am at her house I am going to notice how she organizes things (she is not too organized at the moment, as her life is very busy, but she tries).
For a very short time of my life, probably not more than a year, I once paid a housecleaner, a friend, for 3 hours a week of cleaning. I worked a lot and commuted far, and could afford it at the time, and it was needful in that difficult marriage. What a great decision for self-care that was. On Thursdays evenings I would pick up the whole house so she would have clear surfaces, and on Fridays, I would come home to start my weekend home life in a shining, clean, tidy home. I loved it. One quirky thing she did was organize tabletop or shelf items very differently than I do. (she might have been SEI. Not sure. Some ISxx). I have particularly thought-through placement of such objects that I place for aesthetic just-rightness. But after dusting and polishing, she would put things back lined up like train cars, evenly spaced. It looked odd to me! Organized, but not how I would. I moved things back "right", and each week she did it her way. We never talked about it. : )
Well it is not surprising to find a lot in common with someone with just one letter different in the four letters, even if they are a different Quadra. I also saw you have a lot in common with ESTp, particularly commanding confidence. It would be my 2nd choice type for you. The SEE i know gets along great with my SLE son, too. We get along great, too, but have had one or two clashes of sudden major misunderstanding that puzzled me and motivated me to understand more about her type. One thing that threw me off was her bold entitle demands or instruction-giving (where SEE gets the name Caesar), until I realized that I while don't like saying no, bold as she is, she takes hearing no just fine. So she is not scary (even though she once made me timid in such times).
Also she is not bad at selling, too. She has some of that with her work, and does it very well I noticed. With a flair. (I will tell you more details in PM if you want because I want to respect her privacy so i don't give many details here publicly about the relation).
What are IME's? I am unfamiliar. Google mentions: "5 Ways You Can Beat a UNUM IME Report
1. Don't Exaggerate Your Symptoms. ...
2. Build Strong Relationships With Your Treating Doctors. ...
3. Assume You're Under Surveillance Before and After an IME. ...
4. Bring a Trustworthy Witness With You. ...
5. Consult an Experienced Disability Insurance Lawyer."
Yes, Socionics has real challenges, and the translations are a real hurdle at times. Reading a translated article that refers to both types of a relationship as "He" I find particularly difficult and have at times re-written teh article for "he" and "she" to make it easier to read. Yes, and when something seems way off about when they go in a tangent about an archetype that you don't relate to, that throws one off. But I LOVE Socionics for the deepest way of understanding self and others and relationships. To me it offers a continual treasure chest of understanding.
She is not illogical constantly. Just occasionally she will bring up a topic she is quite sure on, and there is ONE piece of logic in her argument thank stumps me and feels illogical and if I focus on that (my first impulse is to seek out the inconsistencies and correct them so I can continue to follow the argument) it doesn't make for a good or productive conversation. (IEE thinks a negative conversation is not a worthwhile one).
One recent example is I decided to mention that I believe prophets who say Trump will be president, "now", in spite of it not appearing that way at this time (I knew this would not cause an argument). But she said this is impossible; she has read the Constitution [So right here I see a logic issue: How can you remember everything you read, and wouldn't that take a lawyer? Reading it once or twice or thrice, how could that be enough?] But I am not wanting to be negative and say so. She explained, I think, that even if it was fraud and it was outed and it was perfectly clear Trump won by a landslide, the Constitution says he can't win without a "civil war". After careful Q'ing I see she says the electoral voters have voted (or would revote?) Biden. See, I don't even follow her argument but feel if I press for clarification it will seem like I am disbelieving her, and that would make her press in harder. So I don't know what is logical and not with that, so I simply said, "maybe so, but there won't be a civil war becasue no prophets have said that, and I believe the prophets who said "2 president, 2 inaugurations" and I believe God will accomplish His purpose without civil war." (She does not have any intolerance for the expression of a different opinion).
Hope that even makes sense.
Yes, the health of a person can make it confusing. But then, I have had deep experience being previously married to a Narcissist ESE, and also have had ESE friends in the past including two close ones, and I can see they are the same type even though one was mentally ill. But it does make it harder to tell.
LOL. Yes, because the insights I get from you when you express yourself make see the same type in you two. She is smart, likeable and pretty accomplished, too, especially considering major challenges she has had to overcome. She is doing great now, after some past issues.
LOL, I like that. I admire the same directness I see in my SEE friend, especially after getting to know her more and see that this is where she is coming from.
"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
.
.
.
SEE depiction
captures some of the vibe.https://www.deviantart.com/lorandeso...leon-383289836
Gamma is split in half between depressive types and not so depressive types. ILI is more likely to assume the worst, while LIE is more likely to assume the best. Apparently it's because of dealings with people.
Anyways, all gamma Extroverts are positive, and all gamma introverts are negative. In other words, I'm silent most of the time because I expect a negative reaction. Basically, me on this forum has been frick it, I'm participating reguardless of concequence. I assume Nanashi does not have this kind of paranoia following her, so she's less likely to have the behavior of all or nothing reasoning. I did not come to this conclusion by theory, it is empiric.
Vibes are a pseudoscience, Dead. Until we qualify or quantify what they are, they shall remain pseudoscience. I'm not qualified to do so without help, as I don't understand it either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
Yeah, well being optimistic all the time is unrealistic. Expectations vs reality has proven to me time and time again that the most pragmatic option is also the most realistic one. Life experience told me that too. This is why idealism has no place without pragmatism backing it up. I've seen too many idealists fail time and time again (re: council estates in Europe) and not caring about the consequences.
You can also be begative without paranoia and expecting the worst. You can also be realistic as well, and collected. Overly optimistic people depress me because they can't see past their own idealism and the scale of reality in a lot of situations. The other thing that really annoys me as well is that a positive atmosphere is forced in many situations when things are tough and people call that optimism. You can be optimistic without sacrificing realism, and you can be content without constantly being toxicly positive as well.
This song is pretty much the "depression anthem" for me:
I think this dude is ILI or ESI or something. He turned depression into an art. I'm sure @ooo knows this song, but it's about depression anyway and he's fed up with life but he manages to like himself in the end. Rancore is one of the few Italian musicians that can make a theme like depression tolerable without making the song sound too sad, you know? It's creative.
Yeah, I thought they were garbage too. Vibes, even the name itself sounds crap. All I think
@DEAD
this is the optimistic depression anthem, aint it lovely? so smooth.. but it was the 90's, people looked at the future as a promise, while in current times all of this sort of disappeared
These words are in the contradicting.
-
Positive future ideas started to loose the popularity in western mass culture somewhere since 1960s. It's when returned ideas that technical progress leads to doubtful way, including people quantity arise goes faster than technical progress compensates. When spiritual irrationalism started to get the popularity again. When social nigilism developed in hippy ideology.
I suspect it was done intentionally to supress humanity development to keep the control above people by those who had it before - to keep the power for elites which existed. To give knowledge and technical things to masses means lesser power above those people. While technical progress needs mass knowledge to go quicker. Since 1960s mass education and morality started be supressed, while social inquality to arise.
The situation. There never were bad or good times from the point how most people felt own life. When anything goes good - people find new problems to do not feel boring (it can be physiology need to solve problems to feel better). When anything goes bad - people accent on positive sides in what they have to emotionally support themselves in a fighting. It's hard to tell something worse than to be at a war - but people emotionally adopt even to this somehow.
Generally, what was different is how easier was to stay alive, while mind always adopted to what existed. And there always were happier and lesser happy people, mb even in similar %, in any society, culture and other longtime conditions.
What some religions say that it's a sin - what depends on your will - to feel anger or sorrow.
"The eight patterns of evil thought are gluttony, lust, greed, sadness, acedia, anger, vainglory, pride." link
"sadness" is kept in the list in Eastern Christian church until now. The idea is when to love God is a task, then to love the world and beings created by him is a task too.
What from psychology point is that it's better do not allow negative emotions too much. Same as to concentrate the consciousness for long on a physical pain has not much sense often, when you need to do something useful in that time and it's better to concentrate on solutions instead of a suffering. Negative emotions supress you - works as an obstacle for any activity, including useful one.
I'm considering LSI....
Convince me otherwise. I'm serious.