ESFp

[Robert Dane Horlock]

SEEs aren’t usually that open with me about their inner struggles. But more is coming to mind now. I have seen a lot of problems with addiction (perhaps underneath the drinking is depression/anxiety?) And older SEEs who seem to have trust issues regarding relationships.

It depends on how healthy they are, and how they actually regulate and balance themselves. The more mature an SEE is, the more likey it is that they are gonna be cynical towards the world, based on everything they've learned up until then. And the light of the relationships begin to die down, the more actual experience is processed through Se and in return can fracture Fi, if not looked after properly. It's the same as older SLEs coming across as more LIE like. Because of the Ti becoming more wary as well, like Ni. It can seem like Te+Ni when it's just well-seasoned Se+Ti.

As for addiction issues and impulsivity? That's not really exclusive to SEE. That's just poor impulse control in general, and it can happen to a lot of people when they're undisciplined or out of the loop. It's probably happening now because of the pandemic and people have no real outlet, as many places are still under lockdown when maybe they don't need to be as severe (due to less people and poor governing of death rates/infection rates per capita being calculated).

ESFP guy throws a knife at the beginning of the clip

So every psychopath is SEE? Also HOW can you tell that guy is SEE from like 3 seconds of footage? That's dumb and he's barely even throwing it or aiming at anything. Don't overexaggerate, dude.

[khcs]

So every psychopath is SEE? Also HOW can you tell that guy is SEE from like 3 seconds of footage? That's dumb and he's barely even throwing it or aiming at anything. Don't overexaggerate, dude.

No they are not. It is better not to use the word psychopath. Even Robert D. Haare does not know its real meaning.

The knife throwing video was included only to show how good is the ESFP (SEE) with handling objects. They are able to become true jongleurs.

The ESFP tries to appear a little bit menacing when he feels being ignored by society.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

No they are not. It is better not to use the word psychopath. Even Robert D. Haare does not know its real meaning.

The knife throwing video was included only to show how good is the ESFP (SEE) with handling objects. They are able to become true jongleurs.

The ESFP tries to appear a little bit menacing when he feels being ignored by society.

This is from the guy who basically typed Megan Thee Stallion INFJ...

You know nothing.

[khcs]

This is from the guy who basically typed Megan Thee Stallion INFJ...

You know nothing.

Megan Thee Stallion INFP

Know enough. Your profile picture is ESFP.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

Megan Thee Stallion INFP

Know enough. Your profile picture is ESFP.

LOL. What next? Einstein ESE?

Yeah, but I'm not my profile picture and it's not me.

[khcs]

LOL. What next? Einstein ESE?

Yeah, but I'm not my profile picture and it's not me.

Of course it is not you, perhaps the same type as you.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

Of course it is not you, perhaps the same type as you.

Nah, I have Mahmood typed as a Beta NF. Maybe the music video is Se HA.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

I think that I am mistyped.

[two]

I think that I am mistyped.

What else are you considering aside from SEE? If it's SLE only then it's easier to know which one is the correct type.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

What else are you considering aside from SEE? If it's SLE only then it's easier to know which one is the correct type.

That or a Delta ST. I ruled out ESI because that means genuinely giving a crap about ethics and morals and seeing the world totally through them. And I'm obviously not LSI because I don't need everything to be so hevily structured, nor rely solely on logic judgements. I think that IJ is too restricting, and I also think that I'm probably not an introverted type. I don't really spend a lot of time inside my mind. I'm most likely not an NT or NF type because I do not resonate with those IMEs or Alpha SF, so that leaves Beta ST, Gamma SF and Delta ST.

[two]

That or a Delta ST. I ruled out ESI because that means genuinely giving a crap about ethics and morals and seeing the world totally through them. And I'm obviously not LSI because I don't need everything to be so hevily structured, nor rely solely on logic judgements. I think that IJ is too restricting, and I also think that I'm probably not an introverted type. I don't really spend a lot of time inside my mind. I'm most likely not an NT or NF type because I do not resonate with those IMEs or Alpha SF, so that leaves Beta ST, Gamma SF and Delta ST.

Maybe it would be better if you assess yourself on Fi and Fe scale first. Do you mostly follow the mood of the social environment even if you feel otherwise?
Delta STs are terrible at this, just like Gamma NTs. Either they know what they’ll say will ruin the mood or not, but either way they’ll rather put their views out there. It’s normal for these types to be social blackholes (at least for Fe valuers)

[Robert Dane Horlock]

Maybe it would be better if you assess yourself on Fi and Fe scale first. Do you mostly follow the mood of the social environment even if you feel otherwise?
Delta STs are terrible at this, just like Gamma NTs. Either they know what they’ll say will ruin the mood or not, but either way they’ll rather put their views out there. It’s normal for these types to be social blackholes (at least for Fe valuers)

No, I don't see the point. Not that I can't most of the time, I just don't and I say what's on my mind and things when it has to be said.

[two]

No, I don't see the point. Not that I can't most of the time, I just don't and I say what's on my mind and things when it has to be said.

So it is also the case that you don't really have the need to be validated by others and have your feelings reciprocated (you may appreciate if people react to you but overall you just care about your own conviction)? If so, you should just focus on Delta and Gamma types.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

So it is also the case that you don't really have the need to be validated by others and have your feelings reciprocated (you may appreciate if people react to you but overall you just care about your own conviction)? If so, you should just focus on Delta and Gamma types.

I barely care about either, to be fair.

[two]

I barely care about either, to be fair.

You should consider Delta/Gamma types but just to be sure you should check for Ti too. Why do you think you could be Ti ego?

[Robert Dane Horlock]

You should consider Delta/Gamma types but just to be sure you should check for Ti too. Why do you think you could be Ti ego?

Yeah, if I am a Delta type, it's going to be an ST type because I do not think that I am intuitive, feeling type (NF) because I don't use Ne as a dominant function, and I don't have PoLR/Role Se. I definitely am not an idealist, nor am I much of a Humanitarian at all. I've been called pragmatic more times than I have a humanist. I do think that if Quadras have any value to them (which they might, but to me they come across as pretty "clique-ish", which may also be a product of the translations from Russian as well). I guess I have to do more research into the Quadras and see if they're as valid as I think they are:

I think maybe I have Ti because:

• I want things to make sense for me, no matter what the case may be.
• I like to organise things based on an order that I think works best based on size (probably not Ti, but anyway).
• I like to learn things, and for them to be effective.
• I like to store up facts, and I like to accumulate knowledge about topics.
• I admit that I like to debate things for fun, but it's not a priority of mine.
• I try to be conistent and calm when I can (it's mostly my default mode).
• I also admit that I'm not the best arguer in terms of 'logic', unless I have my facts straight and my arguments ready (again, probably just common debate practice), but I can convince people nonetheless.

That's what I think. A lot of people think I am either SLE or SEE. It's mostly the SLE that think I am SEE, and the SEE that think I am SLE, weirdly enough. I also get the odd SLI/SLE suggestion, and have gotten LSI before. It's weird.

[Rebelondeck]

Your self-description seems inconsistent which may point to XEE but this may be due to word selection also:

to make sense, no matter what the case may be is more T-like
organise things based on an order is certainly Se
to learn things, and for them to be effective is more Ip-like
store up facts, and accumulate knowledge is more Ip-like
like to debate things for fun is more N-like
consistent and calm is more Ij-like
not the best arguer and arguments ready is more Ij-like

a.k.a. I/O

[Robert Dane Horlock]

Your self-description seems inconsistent which may point to XEE but this may be due to word selection also:

to make sense, no matter what the case may be is more T-like
organise things based on an order is certainly Se
to learn things, and for them to be effective is more Ip-like
store up facts, and accumulate knowledge is more Ip-like
like to debate things for fun is more N-like
consistent and calm is more Ij-like
not the best arguer and arguments ready is more Ij-like

a.k.a. I/O

To be honest, some of the most inconsistent people I know are logical types and I don't think that has much to do with Typology in general. I think that's just "human things" and should be accounted for as such. No one is going to be totally consistent, or inconsistent. I don't know why that's counted as a part of a type at all. And I'm not really expecting to be accurately typed from that list. I'm just giving reasons and thoughts on the spot as to why I might be Ti ego. But thanks for your insight and breakdown of things but according that, I am probably more ST than SF or NF.

[Tzuyu]

@DEAD

People that have a solid knowledge base in Socionics yet still have a lot of difficulty self-typing can usually trace the cause to belonging to a strong lead or creative subtype. EX: My logic gave me higher intuition than other SLIs and obscured some base function traits. Hope that helps.

Some body language/facial expression resource for your top 2 types

SEE


SLE

[Robert Dane Horlock]

@DEAD

People that have a solid knowledge base in Socionics yet still have a lot of difficulty self-typing can usually trace the cause to belonging to a strong lead or creative subtype. EX: My logic gave me higher intuition than other SLIs and obscured some base function traits. Hope that helps.

Some body language/facial expression resource for your top 2 types

SEE


SLE

Well if I am SxE, I am definitely an Se subtype. But I agree more with the SLE video, even in the comparisons between the types (though, this is still based more on MBTI, right?) Steve Irwin was WAAYY too passionate and expressive for me, but I get the gist of it.

[Tzuyu]

Well if I am SxE, I am definitely an Se subtype. But I agree more with the SLE video, even in the comparisons between the types (though, this is still based more on MBTI, right?) Steve Irwin was WAAYY too passionate and expressive for me, but I get the gist of it.

Well there you have it. *clap clap* Best not to overthink these things unless something is critically contradictory, it will save you a lot of headaches.

[Rebelondeck]

To be honest, some of the most inconsistent people I know are logical types and I don't think that has much to do with Typology in general. I think that's just "human things" and should be accounted for as such. No one is going to be totally consistent, or inconsistent. I don't know why that's counted as a part of a type at all. And I'm not really expecting to be accurately typed from that list. I'm just giving reasons and thoughts on the spot as to why I might be Ti ego. But thanks for your insight and breakdown of things but according that, I am probably more ST than SF or NF.

Barring psychological problems that would make any type inconsistent, Eps tend to be unfocused with respect to themselves mostly because their noses are pointed outward. They can be very objective and pursue things relentlessly but they simply don't seem to give much priority to analysis as if they don't really want the answer because they're only in it for the journey and the novel information that it might produce. This is perhaps why their duals are critical observers. I've had to stop many Ep and nail their feet to the floor in order to get a product because when they're forced to think seriously long enough, they can be the most insightful. However, many seem to lose faith in themselves and their abilities.

a.k.a. I/O

[nanashi]

I dunno, I don't get and buy that every single SEE wants happiness, wants to help people, be friendly and be positive. Gamma are negativist types, and pretty businesslike. I can be quite a skeptical person, and most certainly not a friendly one either. It takes people a while to warm up to me. I don't want to help everyone, unless they need it. Unless it makes sense to. I don't like this light interpretation of ethical types, nor SEE. As if it's the only state they can be. And also the almost robotical nature of logical types, being cold, and machine-like. Archetypes don't describe the whole situation, nor are they accurate but enough people seem to embody these archetypes as the reality that they're meant to help people understand. But archetypes aren't the whole, accurate story of reality. Neither are observations, though they tend to be more accurate than just archetypes. And because people don't see outside of the system, they miss the fact that the archetypes aren't the end all or be all of everything. It's a combination of IME, observations, archetypes and the raw data itself of how a person comes together.

LIE are characterized by positivism and extreme friendliness.

[Adam Strange]

LIE are characterized by positivism and extreme friendliness.

Yep. That's me.

I'm just a little bundle of sunshine.

LIE archetype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHQPbZPbxP4

[nanashi]

Yep. That's me.

I'm just a little bundle of sunshine.

LIE archetype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHQPbZPbxP4

DarkAngelFireWolf69: "LIE interacts with other people at close psychological distances. Democratic. Predisposed towards positive attitude and friendliness on his territory. Feels relaxed in an atmosphere of warm, sincere, soulful communication. One should settle disagreements with him in an informal atmosphere, first persuading him of good intentions. He is much in need of reliable, stable human relations. Due to his inability to immediately recognize falsity can allow himself to get drawn into poor company and questionable enterprises. Appreciates reliable, time-tested friends. Usually aware that he can be too insensitive and inattentive in relation to others and is wary of this trait in himself. Ruining his relations with someone searches for methods to make amends. To this end, gives gifts or shows a particular concern for his partner."

[nanashi]

Yep. That's me.

I'm just a little bundle of sunshine.

LIE archetype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHQPbZPbxP4

Aushra & Weisband: "Optimistic. He quickly reacts to everything that brings emotions, especially positive. He is as if preprogrammed for rising spirits of his dual (The Guardian) who always looks somewhat scared or angry. He permanently irradiates friendliness, positive emotions, and smiles. He tries to make his partner laugh, shakes and hassles her in all possible ways, until she finally reacts, either positively or negatively, otherwise he will not have information about his condition (of course, in this sentence HE and SHE pronouns may be used vice versa). He likes to relate and to discuss what he has read and heard. It is easy for him to start up a conversation with a person he has never been familiar with.

5. Love for life. He searches permanent and constant human relations. He does not understand very well feelings and attractions of other people; this is why he is careful in this field and is afraid of being funny. He much values human life"

[Adam Strange]

DarkAngelFireWolf69: "LIE interacts with other people at close psychological distances. Democratic. Predisposed towards positive attitude and friendliness on his territory. Feels relaxed in an atmosphere of warm, sincere, soulful communication. One should settle disagreements with him in an informal atmosphere, first persuading him of good intentions. He is much in need of reliable, stable human relations. Due to his inability to immediately recognize falsity can allow himself to get drawn into poor company and questionable enterprises. Appreciates reliable, time-tested friends. Usually aware that he can be too insensitive and inattentive in relation to others and is wary of this trait in himself. Ruining his relations with someone searches for methods to make amends. To this end, gives gifts or shows a particular concern for his partner."

Aushra & Weisband: "Optimistic. He quickly reacts to everything that brings emotions, especially positive. He is as if preprogrammed for rising spirits of his dual (The Guardian) who always looks somewhat scared or angry. He permanently irradiates friendliness, positive emotions, and smiles. He tries to make his partner laugh, shakes and hassles her in all possible ways, until she finally reacts, either positively or negatively, otherwise he will not have information about his condition (of course, in this sentence HE and SHE pronouns may be used vice versa). He likes to relate and to discuss what he has read and heard. It is easy for him to start up a conversation with a person he has never been familiar with.

5. Love for life. He searches permanent and constant human relations. He does not understand very well feelings and attractions of other people; this is why he is careful in this field and is afraid of being funny. He much values human life"

Well, yeah. I do that, too.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

I'm sorry but last time I checked this was the ESFp thread.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

Barring psychological problems that would make any type inconsistent, Eps tend to be unfocused with respect to themselves mostly because their noses are pointed outward. They can be very objective and pursue things relentlessly but they simply don't seem to give much priority to analysis as if they don't really want the answer because they're only in it for the journey and the novel information that it might produce. This is perhaps why their duals are critical observers. I've had to stop many Ep and nail their feet to the floor in order to get a product because when they're forced to think seriously long enough, they can be the most insightful. However, many seem to lose faith in themselves and their abilities.

a.k.a. I/O

Exactly.

Well there you have it. *clap clap* Best not to overthink these things unless something is critically contradictory, it will save you a lot of headaches.

Yeha, I suppose.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

Butt out.

Butt out of things not involving you.

Butt out of things involving others people, that's not you.

Unless someone asks for your opinion, stay away and don't make things worse. Stay out and let people solve their own issues.

Stop trying to make things better, when you're making them harder to fix. When your method isn't working. Don't say things for the sake of it. If someone wants your involvement. they'll let you know. Until then, butt out. Also, don't make things not involving you in any way, shape or form about you. If you want that, there are plenty more places to go. Stop using the inappropriate places for discussing things not involving the topic at hand, and most of all, don't try and play the hero. It makes you out to be the villain.

Why can't people just have some common human decency and get off their high horses and just get on with their lives?

[Sanguine Miasma]

ASK ME SOME QUESTIONS PLEASE.

If a gnome farts in a forest and no one hears does it still stink?

[two]

Well if I am SxE, I am definitely an Se subtype. But I agree more with the SLE video, even in the comparisons between the types (though, this is still based more on MBTI, right?) Steve Irwin was WAAYY too passionate and expressive for me, but I get the gist of it.

Hm, I don’t think SEEs are always that passionate. Check other videos like DarkAngelFireWolf69’s and WSS’. The guy Jack interviewed is my baseline of SEE now (not sure if I can just post the link here since I don’t know the guy and I don’t think he’s a public figure.) You can see for yourself, but his answers seem right to Jack’s typing. He resembles one of the ESFp pics from socionics.net VI test too.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

Hm, I don’t think SEEs are always that passionate. Check other videos like DarkAngelFireWolf69’s and WSS’. The guy Jack interviewed is my baseline of SEE now (not sure if I can just post the link here since I don’t know the guy and I don’t think he’s a public figure. You can see for yourself, but his answers seem right to Jack’s typing.

1. Probably not but they're not that dispassionate either.
2. Link to their channel? Can't find them on YouTube.
3. Which guy? That's very vague.
4. Don't care about VI, it's unreliable and you can't tell someone's type from how they look.

If a gnome farts in a forest and no one hears does it still stink?

I read this as Gamma, not gnome. But yes, it still stinks because farts are a gas. Not every gas is loud. Gases are silent, but deadly.

[two]

1. Probably not but they're not that dispassionate either.
2. Link to their channel? Can't find them on YouTube.
3. Which guy? That's very vague.
4. Don't care about VI, it's unreliable and you can't tell someone's type from how they look.




I read this as Gamma, not gnome. But yes, it still stinks because farts are a gas. Not every gas is loud. Gases are silent, but deadly.

Can you say that you are dispassionate?
For points 2 and 3, I’ll PM the link.
For 4, just focus on his answers then if you don’t care about VI. Just added that because the resemblance of the expression is uncanny

[Eliza Thomason]

Yeah, if I am a Delta type, it's going to be an ST type because I do not think that I am intuitive, feeling type (NF) because I don't use Ne as a dominant function, and I don't have PoLR/Role Se. I definitely am not an idealist, nor am I much of a Humanitarian at all. I've been called pragmatic more times than I have a humanist. I do think that if Quadras have any value to them (which they might, but to me they come across as pretty "clique-ish", which may also be a product of the translations from Russian as well). I guess I have to do more research into the Quadras and see if they're as valid as I think they are:

I think maybe I have Ti because:

• I want things to make sense for me, no matter what the case may be.
• I like to organise things based on an order that I think works best based on size (probably not Ti, but anyway).
• I like to learn things, and for them to be effective.
• I like to store up facts, and I like to accumulate knowledge about topics.
• I admit that I like to debate things for fun, but it's not a priority of mine.
• I try to be conistent and calm when I can (it's mostly my default mode).
• I also admit that I'm not the best arguer in terms of 'logic', unless I have my facts straight and my arguments ready (again, probably just common debate practice), but I can convince people nonetheless.

That's what I think. A lot of people think I am either SLE or SEE. It's mostly the SLE that think I am SEE, and the SEE that think I am SLE, weirdly enough. I also get the odd SLI/SLE suggestion, and have gotten LSI before. It's weird.

You are really helping me understand the SEE in my life. I puzzle over how she thinks but Socionics perspective helps.

Can you please give me some examples of organizing things based on size?

[Eliza Thomason]

SLE

DJ did a GREAT job here explaining the SLE/SEE differences. A brother-in-law is a SLE, who always makes top salesman no matter what he sells. I was thinking becasue he is not adverse to lying, but probably it is what DJ says here. I love how DJ explains his thinking because really this is so much like how my son thinks.

So @DEAD if you are, as you say, sometimes between SEE and SLE, that video is good. But I think you are SEE! So you know what subtype you are? (See: https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/...ESFp/subtypes/)

Both SE and SLE have a commanding, direct way. The differences are well explained here.

The SEE most prominent in my life occasionally displays logic issues such that I am often trying to understand where her logic comes from that I can't follow. There is usually misinformation involved. The misinformation is stated VERY confidently, Definitely she is not open to questioning of the fact she shared; it's stated as a given. Not all the time, but sometimes, leaving me each time feeling feeling blocked and puzzled. In a way that I have not seen in other types. My response now is to say, "Oh, okay. Interesting. I don't know much about that" and look for something else she says to focus on, like, what am I learning about what she values, from what she is expressing.

_______________

[(This is off-topic.) DJ's small selection of videos on youtube include one on ENFP, but that was the most disjointed evaluation of ENFP I have ever seen - I believe it was MBTI bec. he said we get along best with INTJ - no! And worst with ISTP - not! I think he has those crossover issues of typing with MBTI/Socionics, which I don't have because I think I did MBTI typing approach very differently. Less function based. He has some very good insights - I love the sock analogy. It is especially interesting because my son is SLE, so it is interesting to hear SLE explain an IEE. But much I do not relate to me or any IEEI have known, so, I think DJ must have long known an unhealthy IEE, is all I can figure. Though he keeps hitting on true things about us regular IEEs, too.]

[Shazaam]

@DEAD

Your 'butt out' post was fucking awesome. I admire your ability to be direct and blunt like that. So maybe u are my dual? Either way regardless of your type you are cool in my book and I like you.

Haha reminds me of this lady:

1269894973bent.gif

[Eliza Thomason]

@DEAD

Your 'butt out' post was fucking awesome. I admire your ability to be direct and blunt like that. So maybe u are my dual? Either way regardless of your type you are cool in my book and I like you.

Haha reminds me of this lady:

1269894973bent.gif

We tend to like traits in others we are not so great at. Also my SEE in my life is direct just like this. That is why DEAD reminds me of her so much. I do admire the trait, too. (and it's not a strength I have).

[timber]

SEE

What an absolute tragedy to loose this man. Look at the way Terri looks @ him? That is what real love and admiration looks like.

[Northstar]

@DEAD

People that have a solid knowledge base in Socionics yet still have a lot of difficulty self-typing can usually trace the cause to belonging to a strong lead or creative subtype. EX: My logic gave me higher intuition than other SLIs and obscured some base function traits. Hope that helps.

Some body language/facial expression resource for your top 2 types

SEE


SLE

Good examples, EJArendee said 100% what I think about the subject as well despite using MBTI terminology.