My five cents
I think the key to understanding subtypes and unsual cases is that even though people often develop skills unusual of their types and behave in ways which are far from the standard type descriptions, the intertype relations remain according to the true type because in close communication, once the parties have established sufficient mutual trust, the mask gradually falls off and people revert to their natural strong functions.Originally Posted by Tanzhe
For example: because of their hidden agenda people might develop their sixth function to the extent that it appears to be their strongest function. Let us consider ENTPs who can be very much in need of positive emotions and if they do not othervice get this emotional recharging they may behave very emotionally themselves in order to get the emotional response they crave and thus may appear to be ethical types, easily mistaken for ENFJs. What they most want from their partner is still emotional support adapted to the needs of the moment - ideally their dual ISFP - and thus their intertype relations, among other things, would give away their true type.
Or let us imagine a know-it-all INFP self-proclaimed socionics expert who kind of gets frustrated with people who have not done their homework and carefully studied the information available. :twisted:
Sorry but you are not allowed.2. Socionics mentioned derivatives of types. Could I get derivatives of the Four Types (ISTj, INTj, ENTp and INTp), please?Everyone has only one permanent true type. Othervice nothing makes sense in socionics - and you know it. This is the opinion of about 90% of socionists. It is also corroborated by my own careful observations. The type can be accurately detected in children as young as 5 or 6 years and it does not change during your lifetime. People's behaviour, values and skills on the other hand can, and often do, change tremendously. You can though have several mask types, well developed weaker functions and very poorly developed self-awareness.
Introverted Sensing as a duality-seeking function means that you would like to be in comfortable, aesthetic surroundings, enjoy good food, drinks other physical comforts and generally be pampered and taken care of. Of course everybody wants this kind of things at least to some extent but ENTPs and ENFPs could be especially attracted to the easy life. They are typically poorly able to create this kind of comfort and appreciate very much if others provide it for them. ENTPs in particular would often not hesitate to accept this kind of care even when it might not be socially acceptable in that situation, for example Our Lord Jesus Christ:3. What is the manifestation of the dual-seeking function of Introverted Sensing? For example, an INTj's function of Fe means that they like happy and cheerful surroundings. Could the Si seeking function (if I am an ENTp) be a reason for my 'conversion' to introversion?
36Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table.
37When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume,
38and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.
39When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is--that she is a sinner."
40Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."
"Tell me, teacher," he said.
41"Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,[4] and the other fifty. 42Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?"
43Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled."
"You have judged correctly," Jesus said.
44Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair.
45You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet.
46You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet.
47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven--for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."
48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
49The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"
50Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/b...+7&version=NIV
Luke 7:36-50
Insufficient data, INTP seems unlikely, INTJ or ENTP are possible but I would not rule out sensory types either:4. Can you tell my possible type functions from the way I write, or is that just speculation?
Personally I think that people should be able to identify their own type no matter what their subtype is. That is why when they read description,
description could not match 100%. If you are intuitive type you can figure
that if the discription is like you or not like you. If you are sensing
type it is not so clear. Basicaly finding your type through the model is
personality free. (Sergei Ganin)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socionics/message/131
We have supplied you with so much info on the differences between INTPs and INTJs that if you can not discover yourself it starts to seem your type could be something else. Forget about the Reinin matrices, they are far too difficult and unreliable for typing yourself but remember that introversion and extroversion in socionics do not mean what people usually think: Extroversion does not equal sociability. The Extroversion/Introversion scale appears to be the easiest but it is easily the most misleading. It is worth reminding ourselves of what Carl Gustav Jung, who invented the whole consept, originally wrote about introverts and extraverts (his spelling):
Through insights gained from the clinical study of patients, two broad personality types are distinguished’—the introverted and the extraverted. In the introduction to “Psychological Types,” the theory is stated; the method to be followed to understand them is described; and, the definition, characteristics and effects of these two personality types are summarized. For the introverted personality, subjective and psychological processes are the center of interest: all life-giving energy seeks the subject himself; the object has a lower value than the subject. The extraverted personality, on the other hand, is drawn to the object as the center of interest: ultimate value rests in the object and the subject subordinates his own subjective processes to the object. The psychological result of these two standpoints is two totally different orientations: one sees everything in terms of the objective event (extraverted); the other sees everything in terms of his own situation (introverted). This broad classificatiow does not exclude the existence of a second set of psychological types deter-mined by the four basic psychological functions: thinking, feeling, sensation, and intuition, found within both introverted and extraverted personalities. This work, then, will discuss both sets of types: one determined by the predominant center of interest; the other determined by the predominance of one of the four basic psychological functions. I reference.
http://www.cgjungpage.org/content/view/270/
What you need to figure out is whether your lead function is subjective or objective - not whether you are outgoing or socially withdrawn, have good people skills or suffer from shyness. What people usually associate with introversion and extraversion are the secondary manifestations of the scale: if the lead function is subjective people tend to be more hesitant in social contacts because they are aware that their interpretation of the world is subjective - not how thing are but what they self think/feel/sense/intuit. Thus the question is: what is your most conscious function that wants followers, causes sturbbornness in you and can also take a lot of beating. For example: everybody gets ideas but is inventiveness what defines you as a person - do the ideas come to your mind strongly and constantly and would you like people to pay attention to them and turn them into reality. Try to study also the other functions and give us some concrete and detailed examples of your thinking and acting in different situations.
I also think you should add at least ESTJ to your list of possible types. They need and demand a lot of concrete information because their intuition is poorly developed. They might well test as INTJs because many ESTJs are surpisingly shy and find casual socializing difficult. Extraverted Intuition is also what they try to balance, the hidden agenda, and therefore they might well test as intuitive types. ESTJs get a totally undeserved negative press even though often they are the pillars of society who ensure that things run smoothly and reliably. Your extra bonus is that then you get to have INFJs as your dual. They can be the most kind and sensitive people you could hope to find. Some of them are also really clever like the Russian socionist Yekaterina Filatova so one way of learning socionics would be to try to find an INFJ to make sense of the bloody mess that socionics often seems to be, or as one commentator posted: you learn easily if your dual explains things for you.
Now here is a short excerpt from an interview of the conservative columnist John Derbyshire, in which he explains his opinions and basic view of the world, perhaps his sober mind and solid moral values naturally resonate with you. His picture is included because it is a good example of how visual identification really does work, well at least sometimes - and if you do not see it, it is not my fault.
Yes: "the greatest part of men are gross," no less now than in 1778. Probably no more, either; but nowadays they have the vote, and money to spend. They have shucked off all notions of rank or authority, of deference or respectability, of hierarchy or standards in taste, and they believe that everyone's pleasure is as good as everyone else's. That's the world we live in, for better or worse - in some ways, let's be honest, much for the better - and it's not easy to imagine us going back.
All we - we conservatives - can do is to hold on to the truth, to standards, to intellectual discipline. Speak the truth!
* No, people in past times were not less intelligent than ourselves.
* Yes, some productions of the human imagination are superior to others, for reasons to do with eternal values.
* No, it is not the case that white people are inherently wicked (though some are) and un-white people inherently virtuous (though some are).
* Yes, words have meanings, and refer to real things in a real world.
* No, money is not the root of all evil; but too much obsessing about it will deaden you to things of the spirit.
* Yes, human nature exists. It contains both good and evil, always has, and always will.
* No, peace is not always preferable to war, not even to aggressive war.
* Yes, this is a commercial republic, and except in times of grave national danger, government work, however worthy, must take second place to commerce.
* No, gay is not just as good as straight, the ancient Egyptians did not have black skin, a woman needs a man much, much more than a fish needs a bicycle, rhyme and meter (to say nothing of sense) are not obsolete features in English versification, and self-love is not the greatest love of all, but the least.
* It is highly unlikely that any one of us is a uniquely talented individual with a precious gift to offer the world. It is vastly more probable that we are mere atoms in the mass of humanity, who must find fulfillment in a lifetime of performing humdrum tasks on behalf of our family, neighbors, and fellow-citizens, while we each explore our individuality in small rewarding hobbies and private devotions.
I don't think conservatism is necessarily gloomy, and in fact the conservatives I hang out with are, most of them, happy and witty people who enjoy life. (NR editorial conferences are a laugh riot.) However, we conservatives are people of the Cold Eye, which sees things as they are. Wishful thinking is the province of the Left, and the end result of it, always and ever, is the one spelt out by conservatism's greatest poet:
.... after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins,
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
http://www.enterstageright.com/archi...derbyshire.htm
Keep on posting though - maybe one day we really can uncover your true type with near absolute certainty. 8)
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