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Thread: ESTj women and work

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    @falk, both my sister and my mother are LSE, and both of them dated strictly on their terms. They laughed at guys who approached them if they didn't like the guy, and both gave ultimatums to their SO's to get them to marry them. Both are in charge of the marriage and the home. Why you'd want this for your future is beyond me, but good luck to you. Bear in mind that in order to make an LSE respond positively to you, you will have to act like an EII. Give that some serious thought.

    I'll add that I think Caregiver-Aggressor sex is probably not the best thing in the world. I can say with some authority that Caregiver-Victim sex sucks. But good luck touching her butt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    Just a possibility don’t take it as my read on your situation but 1D Fi types can find you attractive but still shut down any possibility of developing feelings for you and therefore not have any interest in despite finding you attractive. Especially if the Te lead might see practical foreseeable issues.
    This is actually, entirely, completely, true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @falk, both my sister and my mother are LSE, and both of them dated strictly on their terms. They laughed at guys who approached them if they didn't like the guy, and both gave ultimatums to their SO's to get them to marry them. Both are in charge of the marriage and the home. Why you'd want this for your future is beyond me, but good luck to you. Bear in mind that in order to make an LSE respond positively to you, you will have to act like an EII. Give that some serious thought.

    I'll add that I think Caregiver-Aggressor sex is probably not the best thing in the world. I can say with some authority that Caregiver-Victim sex sucks. But good luck touching her butt.
    my husband asked me to marry him after three dates. I guess that's an ultimatum lol
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    my husband asked me to marry him after three dates. I guess that's an ultimatum lol
    You thought it might be a good idea, so he didn't have to give you a "Do it now or I'll never have anything to do with you ever again" ultimatum. My SLI father wasn't so sure as you were. Neither was my IEI now-brother-in-law. Turns out both of them should have listened to their concerns.

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    I'll repeat what I said in chat. I have a severe mental illness. It requires medication for the rest of my life. I do not wish for her to become tangled in my life as my future is uncertain. I desire a positive experience with her. Yes, I would like to have sex with her but knowing how conservative ESTj women are in that aspect, I'm not expecting it. My previous long term relationship with an ESE has taught me that just because the sex is good that doesn't mean you are compatible. If I just wanted to get my rocks off, I'd go for another ESE. Or an EIE.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    You thought it might be a good idea, so he didn't have to give you a "Do it now or I'll never have anything to do with you ever again" ultimatum. My SLI father wasn't so sure as you were. Neither was my IEI now-brother-in-law. Turns out both of them should have listened to their feelings.
    wow strange combinations
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    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    I'll repeat what I said in chat. I have a severe mental illness. It requires medication for the rest of my life. I do not wish for her to become tangled in my life as my future is uncertain. I desire a positive experience with her. Yes, I would like to have sex with her but knowing how conservative ESTj women are in that aspect, I'm not expecting it. My previous long term relationship with an ESE has taught me that just because the sex is good that doesn't mean you are compatible. If I just wanted to get my rocks off, I'd go for another ESE. Or an EIE.
    Why not an LIE?

    Personally, if a female ESI-Se 6w5 sp/sx wanted to sleep with me, she wouldn't have to ask twice, medical problems or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @falk, both my sister and my mother are LSE, and both of them dated strictly on their terms. They laughed at guys who approached them if they didn't like the guy, and both gave ultimatums to their SO's to get them to marry them. Both are in charge of the marriage and the home. Why you'd want this for your future is beyond me, but good luck to you. Bear in mind that in order to make an LSE respond positively to you, you will have to act like an EII. Give that some serious thought.

    I'll add that I think Caregiver-Aggressor sex is probably not the best thing in the world. I can say with some authority that Caregiver-Victim sex sucks. But good luck touching her butt.
    I am yielding in relationships. But if we sleep together, I'll take in account her sexual preferences (if she has preferences. She's probably a virgin) but I expect to be the dominant one in bed. If ENTj women weren't difficult to find irl, I'd probably go for them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Why not an LIE?

    Personally, if a female ESI-Se 6w5 sp/sx wanted to sleep with me, she wouldn't have to ask twice, medical problems or not.
    Is your horniness at or above the level of a typical LIE's? This is important information if falk is to make an informed choice. ツ
    Clicks speed growth.


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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    Today was the 2nd time I mentioned hanging out with her. I told her that I am open to hang out whenever she has free time. She just graduated from college, has a full time job and volunteers for an organization. Today she mentioned she had something to do with her parents. I don't see her being free for a while. I don't know how she feels about me. She says she trusts me but she said that in a way that sounded like she didn't fully trust me. Like the semi-dual description said, conversation isn't boring, which is a reason I want to hang out with her. I'm hesitant to be more aggressive with her because I don't want to offend her. What I want is to have me in mind whenever she's free to socialize.

    I think I've done what I can. I guess I'll have to wait. :/
    how much more aggressive can you get? just wondering
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    how much more aggressive can you get? just wondering
    Would you like first hand expeiernce? PM me

    But seriously I don't know. I once literally picked up a female IEI with a hug and started moving her around. She seemed to enjoy that very much. Does that answer your question?

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    Would you like first hand expeiernce? PM me
    no I don't like Se
    My husband is LSE and we have sex twice a night. That's all the first hand I need
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Is your horniness at or above the level of a typical LIE's? This is important information if falk is to make an informed choice. ツ
    Probably above. But for me, as Psych's post #40 stated, horniness is a decision.

    I will say that the horniness of the other person has a strong influence on my decision.*

    *

    I was on a date earlier this evening with a female LIE and we were happily, asexually exchanging information when a very sexy woman passed behind her. She glanced at the expression on my face and thought it was inspired by her and she started preening. So if @falk wants an LIE, he should want that LIE.

    If he wants an LSE, he should be prepared to be passively receptive and very respectful and admiring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    then why don't you ask her out by saying "would you like to get lunch with me sometime?"
    Like I said before, she's busy with work. We live in different neighborhoods. The best opportunity I see to see each other outside of work would probably be after both our shifts are over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    I'll repeat what I said in chat. I have a severe mental illness. It requires medication for the rest of my life. I do not wish for her to become tangled in my life as my future is uncertain. I desire a positive experience with her. Yes, I would like to have sex with her but knowing how conservative ESTj women are in that aspect, I'm not expecting it. My previous long term relationship with an ESE has taught me that just because the sex is good that doesn't mean you are compatible. If I just wanted to get my rocks off, I'd go for another ESE. Or an EIE.
    I admire your desire not to have a person affected.

    Some advice I keep getting is it's the other person's right to decide. Remember that someone might choose it sand you two might find ways to make it work
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    I mean did you ask her to smoke? Just ask her when she smokes and say you'll come by. She's already got the thing set in place and all you have to do is join her already planned out thing. It's convenient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I mean did you ask her to smoke? Just ask her when she smokes and say you'll come by. She's already got the thing set in place and all you have to do is join her already planned out thing. It's convenient.
    I'll ask. I was thinking we could make weed brownies. I'm still thinking she'll say no.

    Wow, that's really obvious and simple. Thank you.

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    @falk I was in a similar situation some months ago; it didn't work out, in part because I pigeoholed the relationship even before knowing the person. Now I think it's unproductive to be like "I want to be FWB with you" before anything has happened, because it makes you act with this end in mind, makes you try to shape every interaction to fit this motivation; it makes you blind to what is happening/what could happen. Relationships don't work like that; they are messy and unpredictable. Even one night stands aren't based on some contract people sign beforehand; by labelling so I didn't allow myself to get to know the other person at all and I didn't allow things to happen naturally. Labelling and coming up with expectations before even having any meaningful contact made me unable to connect in the first place. Maybe give yourself a chance to see this gal as more than just a side dish.

    There is this saying "people only accept the love they think they deserve". As much as touching butts and smoking weed is satisfying, don't you think you deserve more ? That you deserve someone that would understand you and support you in your struggles? I know you said that you don't want more for now; but what I hear is that you're ready to settle for less than what most people deserve or aim for. I know you didn't ask for advice and that you're the only one to decide what you want to do. I don't even know if what I said applies to you. I just want to share things that helped me personally, hoping it will help you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    @falk I was in a similar situation some months ago; it didn't work out, in part because I pigeoholed the relationship even before knowing the person. Now I think it's unproductive to be like "I want to be FWB with you" before anything has happened, because it makes you act with this end in mind, makes you try to shape every interaction to fit this motivation; it makes you blind to what is happening/what could happen. Relationships don't work like that; they are messy and unpredictable. Even one night stands aren't based on some contract people sign beforehand; by labelling so I didn't allow myself to get to know the other person at all and I didn't allow things to happen naturally. Labelling and coming up with expectations before even having any meaningful contact made me unable to connect in the first place. Maybe give yourself a chance to see this gal as more than just a side dish.

    There is this saying "people only accept the love they think they deserve". As much as touching butts and smoking weed is satisfying, don't you think you deserve more ? That you deserve someone that would understand you and support you in your struggles? I know you said that you don't want more for now; but what I hear is that you're ready to settle for less than what most people deserve or aim for. I know you didn't ask for advice and that you're the only one to decide what you want to do. I don't even know if what I said applies to you. I just want to share things that helped me personally, hoping it will help you.
    Quoting for awesomeness. Plus, it's advice I could use.

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    I'd want even more frank. "This is what I want to do in a relationship: (...)"

    'Relationship' is vague to me.

    But I'm gamma. I'm not exactly like an LSE
    Only thing is, Gammas are more frank like that. They are like, "Just put it on the table and quit with the shilly-shallying." Deltas don't mind the still un-clarified, back and forth of the get-to-know-you phase.

    Also, perhaps their dual can correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure LSE's have trust issues. She may be considering Falk, but stays on reserve while she decides when she is willing to take the leap of trust. EIIs are pretty trust-able, so if Falk just is patient (as EIIs often are) and maintains that interest, LSE will notice, have time to work out the trust issue. And LSEs usually are the one to take the lead and act. She won't forget you expressed interest. In fact, it might be good to sometimes (in whatever way suits the situation) pull back a bit, act disinterested, or distracted instead of open or eager, at a time when you normally would be interested. Just to test the waters. If she is liking your interest, that will make her say or do something to keep you looking at her.

    Maybe a specific suggestion of something you think the LSE would enjoy going out to do would be better. They are super busy but they schedule in time for things they enjoy. Probably she does need and enjoy some relaxing time, and would enjoy it with Falk but I think they don't usually plan the relaxing time so much. That will come naturally after she decides Falk is someone she wants in her life. I suggest Falk just keep being himself, being present and in the moment with her when he can, and keep up those nice conversations when possible. Her loneliness will make her act. And the LSE is big on acting. Usually the extroverts initiates. So wait for it.

    (Also a good person to ask is @DirectorAbbie)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I mean did you ask her to smoke? Just ask her when she smokes and say you'll come by. She's already got the thing set in place and all you have to do is join her already planned out thing. It's convenient.
    Reading Eliza's post just above mine and then thinking about when I get asked out by a colleague, I think it might be wise not to do this. I'm not sure about this situation. For me, a colleague saying this is very similar to a colleague insisting they are showing up whether I am up for it or not. That's kinda rude.


    I think I usually ask out if it's a colleague and not the other way around, but I find it goes smoother when the asker gives their phone number.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    Reading Eliza's post just above mine and then thinking about when I get asked out by a colleague, I think it might be wise not to do this. I'm not sure about this situation. For me, a colleague saying this is very similar to a colleague insisting they are showing up whether I am up for it or not. That's kinda rude.


    I think I usually ask out if it's a colleague and not the other way around, but I find it goes smoother when the asker gives their phone number.
    Well I don't mean like force his way. Say "I can show up." if that's less rude and gives them the option to decline. And he can't just show up if she doesn't give him an address.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    @falk I was in a similar situation some months ago; it didn't work out, in part because I pigeoholed the relationship even before knowing the person. Now I think it's unproductive to be like "I want to be FWB with you" before anything has happened, because it makes you act with this end in mind, makes you try to shape every interaction to fit this motivation; it makes you blind to what is happening/what could happen. Relationships don't work like that; they are messy and unpredictable. Even one night stands aren't based on some contract people sign beforehand; by labelling so I didn't allow myself to get to know the other person at all and I didn't allow things to happen naturally. Labelling and coming up with expectations before even having any meaningful contact made me unable to connect in the first place. Maybe give yourself a chance to see this gal as more than just a side dish.

    There is this saying "people only accept the love they think they deserve". As much as touching butts and smoking weed is satisfying, don't you think you deserve more ? That you deserve someone that would understand you and support you in your struggles? I know you said that you don't want more for now; but what I hear is that you're ready to settle for less than what most people deserve or aim for. I know you didn't ask for advice and that you're the only one to decide what you want to do. I don't even know if what I said applies to you. I just want to share things that helped me personally, hoping it will help you.
    Well damn, this makes me feel like I failed as an EII lol. Well said.

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    Do you guys need me to come and help you?
    LSE men and women chase me lol
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    So I've met a young female ESTj that I find attractive. I want to hang out with her outside of work hours but she says she's really busy with work. Am I shit out of luck?

    Feel free to discuss ESTj women and work in general. I find them to be hard workers but willing to relax in ways that I don't find irritating.
    it has nothing to do w work

    if she likes you, she'd switch her schedule around to find time for u. if she says she's busy it's typically girl language for "I'm not interested in u at this time"

    I'd forget about her / move on for now.. maybe down the road another opportunity will open up but don't bank on it, just play it cool

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    Here's what I'm going to do:

    Wait and play it cool.
    Last edited by falk; 09-22-2020 at 10:46 AM.

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    I have found that ESTjs tend to suck you up into their projects and when you choose not to participate, they're usually not put off by this but it can often lead to them leaving you behind; you'll likely have to demonstrate to them in some way that you can measure up. I wrote this description of them:
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ription-by-I-O

    a.k.a. I/O

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