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Thread: I HATE my duals!!!

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Strictly speaking Jung is not exactly the same thing as socionics. Not many people would associate “a beautiful and harmonious sociability” with socionics beta quadra for instance.
    Beta NFs can be like that. Often Jung’s descriptions can be one-sided, but it’s not entirely at odds with socionics. At least not in that instance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    your "arguments" (or whatever thing you are trying to do with your quotes and posts) are so out of place and lame that I'm not even going to waste my time. I suggest you to grow up.


    waiting for that beta typing



    do you really have a narcissist disorder don't you?
    I was trying to show what Jung thought about Christianity, not even to you, but in general. Your response is to insult me. Before that, you insulted l-longname in calling for them to 'rethink whether they value Fi or not' because they didn't agree with your views on religion and duality and insulted Freelance by rhetorically asking him whether 'reading comprehension was limited to Te'. Yet, you seem require the other side to be nice to you and pamper to your convictions. Otherwise, see your reactions below.

    And on whether I have a narcissistic disorder: you tried to retype me before. You did this to l-longname in this thread. You did this do consentingadult, and a few more cases. This is a common pattern at this point and it's not funny at all. And it's always retyping someone as beta. So hence the comment, because it's very predictable. In this case, I didn't get 'a beta' (yet), but I get 'a narcissist' (and 'grow up'). This is so ad hominem and petty-childish I can't. Are we teenagers? I mean last time you said I 'write like I'm schizophrenic and I should consult someone' because my writing is often obtuse and not easy to read/follow to you, so I guess I'm collecting mental problems inside me

    You just seem to ignore whatever other side is posting (either by claiming they are 'so out of place and lame' or claiming that 'their sources are biased' and so on and alike) and stick to your thought. You present something on a forum and expect no critical thought to what you are saying. This is Ti at its worst: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...of-information but as I'm criticizing your idea(l)s as wrong I'm not expecting a lot from this one other than insults and insinuations, maybe it will yield in the future

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Beta NFs can be like that. Often Jung’s descriptions can be one-sided, but it’s not entirely at odds with socionics. At least not in that instance.
    Yep. I mean sb's argument is actually very valid (unlike calling names). Jung is pre-quadra-thought in a sense: he doesn't really differentiate between a Ti-dominant thinker/philosopher (Kant) and a Ti-valuing thinker/philosopher (Nietzsche), as I myself said before.

    I don't think it really changes Jung's perceptions on organized religions being largely collective and Fe/Ti; it also fits with observations of Gulenko and alike as far as I'm aware. And no, it doesn't mean an individual follower can't be Fi/Te (although it's for different reasons and with a different, let's say, flavor of following, something I've discussed before), or that Fe/Ti people can't be irreligious (their system is just not religious then), and so on.

    And on beta NFs being like that: there was a bit on 'white' betas, more 'appealing ones', nice, little hippie-ish alpha even; there are more religious, conservative, stern, even ascetic betas, who 100% are going to claim they are not betas as they are not 'loud party-makers'; beta is probably the quadra with most variability and thus most internal fights. But we only see those 'dark beta' bits recently

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    LSI-H - - Melancholy|Sanguine - 6w5-8-4 Sp - LFVE MBTI ISTP
    Oldham's Sensitive & Vigilant Type

    When all beauty is tarnished, when all thought is profaned
    They'll cry out for men to invoke the iron rods again
    Now this our secret flame will illuminate the night
    And its sparks fly on the wind and set the world alight


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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    @Tommy, I was only interested in what you thought, not in interpreting the Bible for my own purposes. As you know, people read the Bible all the time yet come to some pretty different conclusions — same with Jung (I have to confess I’m no clearer on what you think given what you quoted). If you thought that Fe was defective or insufficient in the Christian context, or something like that, that would be a very interesting idea, and would merit discussion.
    There were a school subject in my country called "logic" which was suddenly and without any explanation removed. I'm wondering if something similar is happening in another places in the world, and if there's no emphasis in reader's comprehension in american schools or in other countries educational systems due how many times I've had to explain ppl in here that A means A and not B and not C and similar things. Idk if its something educational or cultural or if ppl is simply getting more superficial and cheeky. Or mb its just a Ti way of clowning around. Idk.

    In the tests I had to present when I was a kid there were always reader's comprehension parts where basic questions were made, such as who, why, where, what and more complex questions to make sure that we could grasp or get the ideas in the texts so there were no need of looking for the author and asking repeatedly about the same stuff.

    For understanding the Bible or other texts there are hermeneutics.

    Anyway, just to satiate your curiosity, the Bible is calling ppl to a balance between the objective and the subjective. For example, Jesus called ppl to have community (Fe) but a community that was not seen as positive or good in the eyes of society (not Fe). A community in prosecution which was not accomodated (in Jung terms) at all. As I already explained above, the love Jesus preached in the N.T. was not based in the reality of objects (Fe) but on more subjective and less reasonable one (objectively speaking in Jung terms), coming merely from something intangible and individual as faith. If you ask me I think you can see all the IEs during the whole Bible in different periods, manifestations and circumstances. There would be a difference if we try to look for IEs in Christianity by looking in the Bible or by looking for it in contemporary christianity or modern churches as Jung did. Gulenko spoke about the clock of socion which is basically the human history through the quadra values, and I think the same can be seen in the Bible in both, historical values and spiritual ways. To being able to fully understand it would be necessary for you to read the Bible, there's a lot that can't be discussed or written in this way and obviously you won't understand much if you just limit yourself to read texts from third parties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    I was trying to show what Jung thought about Christianity, not even to you, but in general. Your response is to insult me. Before that, you insulted l-longname in calling for them to 'rethink whether they value Fi or not' because they didn't agree with your views on religion and duality and insulted Freelance by rhetorically asking him whether 'reading comprehension was limited to Te'. Yet, you seem require the other side to be nice to you and pamper to your convictions. Otherwise, see your reactions below.

    And on whether I have a narcissistic disorder: you tried to retype me before. You did this to l-longname in this thread. You did this do consentingadult, and a few more cases. This is a common pattern at this point and it's not funny at all. And it's always retyping someone as beta. So hence the comment, because it's very predictable. In this case, I didn't get 'a beta' (yet), but I get 'a narcissist' (and 'grow up'). This is so ad hominem and petty-childish I can't. Are we teenagers? I mean last time you said I 'write like I'm schizophrenic and I should consult someone' because my writing is often obtuse and not easy to read/follow to you, so I guess I'm collecting mental problems inside me

    You just seem to ignore whatever other side is posting (either by claiming they are 'so out of place and lame' or claiming that 'their sources are biased' and so on and alike) and stick to your thought. You present something on a forum and expect no critical thought to what you are saying. This is Ti at its worst: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...of-information but as I'm criticizing your idea(l)s as wrong I'm not expecting a lot from this one other than insults and insinuations, maybe it will yield in the future
    Your whole attitude is prosecuting religious ppl just like some of the ppl you mentioned. Don't be such an hypocrite. And where did I insulted you btw? Calling you narcissistic because you think I care about your type is not an insult, is self evident. Your whole attitude is so out of place and contradictory that you are not even worthy to be read, honestly (as I said, which is also not an insult, neither telling you to grow up, because you are acting like a teen).
    You can stop addressing whenever you want if you think that I "disrespect" you. I remind you that is not me the one who come to mess around with you due your convictions, but you, and its not the first time you do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    If you think ethics of relations is not important in a relationship and you look for someone to make you feel emotions (as you said before) then mb you are not even IEE.

    Also there's no logical relation between ethics of relations (Fi) being important in a relationship and being sx last, lol.
    I think you should stop being triggered by everything people say on this forum. I was just sharing my interpretation and my opinion that you're sx-last, no need to flood me with your Ti/Te accusations.

    I'm IEE-Ne & value Si/Ne way more than Fi, you're SLI-Te so probably you value Fi and Ne equally. You say I think ethics of relations is not important, yet you're the one who keeps making ennemies by being argumentative and bigoted. You don't seem to be able to cultivate warm relationships unless people agree with you yet you're the one giving lessons. I think you should learn to be more tolerant to people being different, to listen actively to other people instead of reacting, to empathize with people even if you don't agree with them and learn to focus on the issues discussed instead of taking things personnally. Your relationships will improve greatly. I'm just geared towards an SLI who would have figured this out already. I think we're duals, just incompatible ones.

    Have a good day and please leave me in peace (aka alone). I will do the same.
    Only there occasionally

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I think you should stop being triggered by everything people say on this forum. I was just sharing my interpretation and my opinion that you're sx-last, no need to flood me with your Ti/Te accusations.

    I'm IEE-Ne & value Si/Ne way more than Fi, you're SLI-Te so probably you value Fi and Ne equally. You say I think ethics of relations is not important, yet you're the one who keeps making ennemies by being argumentative and bigoted. You don't seem to be able to cultivate warm relationships unless people agree with you yet you're the one giving lessons. I think you should learn to be more tolerant to people being different, to listen actively to other people instead of reacting, to empathize with people even if you don't agree with them and learn to focus on the issues discussed instead of taking things personnally. Your relationships will improve greatly. I'm just geared towards an SLI who would have figured this out already. I think we're duals, just incompatible ones.

    Have a good day and please leave me in peace (aka alone). I will do the same.
    Its not me the one who gets triggered each time. The other day that Duschia got triggered because of me mentioning religion also you did by writing nonsense about SLIs and SJWs. I ignored your bs and yet you come again. So its clearly NOT ME the one who can't leave things pass.
    Then, enemies my ass. Don't take this discussion to a personal degree when I'm clearly talking about the topic in the table (even responding to some of your sayings and its lack of arguments). If you look for emotions in a relationship (as you just said in another thread), you are intolerant and you think that ethics of relations are SO first then there are chances you are not even Delta. You can also add that you are unable to see when you or others harass religious ppl and your way of approaching and making conversations is totally vicious.

    Then, being absurd and illogical doesn't make you Ne or Fi.


    I'm Sx first and I know perfectly why and I even got that in tests you your appreciation is wrong and is likely you the one who's mistyped probably.

    Finally do you want me to leave you alone? That's easy, stop quoting me or mentioning me or coming to talk to me. I think I've left clear that I've no interest in talking with you and you still coming back each time I mention something that triggers your weak mind. Its you the one who should learn from your SLI friend to be less bigoted and be tolerant and stop acting like a dick.

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    im horny

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I think you should stop being triggered by everything people say on this forum. I was just sharing my interpretation and my opinion that you're sx-last, no need to flood me with your Ti/Te accusations.

    I'm IEE-Ne & value Si/Ne way more than Fi, you're SLI-Te so probably you value Fi and Ne equally. You say I think ethics of relations is not important, yet you're the one who keeps making ennemies by being argumentative and bigoted. You don't seem to be able to cultivate warm relationships unless people agree with you yet you're the one giving lessons. I think you should learn to be more tolerant to people being different, to listen actively to other people instead of reacting, to empathize with people even if you don't agree with them and learn to focus on the issues discussed instead of taking things personnally. Your relationships will improve greatly. I'm just geared towards an SLI who would have figured this out already. I think we're duals, just incompatible ones.

    Have a good day and please leave me in peace (aka alone). I will do the same.
    I’m openly liberal and non-religious and Tommy has never been argumentative with me. Maybe if people could just not target others in such a disrespectful way?? I don’t think it’s her going out of her way to be inflammatory lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I’m openly liberal and non-religious and Tommy has never been argumentative with me. Maybe if people could just not target others in such a disrespectful way?? I don’t think it’s her going out of her way to be inflammatory lol.
    That was a response to her targeting me. Again, in my first post, I was just saying:
    I'm a agnostic. What @Tommy describes sounds like a sx-last stacking relationship. Relating through social values and beliefs, worldviews and communities in common. I don't think it has anything to do with duality.
    Where do you see disrespect here? To which she responded:

    If you think ethics of relations is not important in a relationship and you look for someone to make you feel emotions (as you said before) then mb you are not even IEE.
    Also there's no logical relation between ethics of relations (Fi) being important in a relationship and being sx last, lol.
    I can clearly sense some snarky sarcasm, can't you?

    Then she posted:
    Your whole attitude is prosecuting religious ppl just like some of the ppl you mentioned. Don't be such an hypocrite. And where did I insulted you btw? Calling you narcissistic because you think I care about your type is not an insult, is self evident. Your whole attitude is so out of place and contradictory that you are not even worthy to be read, honestly (as I said, which is also not an insult, neither telling you to grow up, because you are acting like a teen).
    You can stop addressing whenever you want if you think that I "disrespect" you. I remind you that is not me the one who come to mess around with you due your convictions, but you, and its not the first time you do it.
    So I ask you again, who is disrespectful?

    I never criticised her faith (I don't think @Duschia did either, she was pointing what Jung thought of the Bible), and was specifically answering to the fact that she was insinuating that I don't care about Fi when she's the one aggravating relationships in this thread by arguing and accusing others instead of trying to calm down and listen to other people. So let's not become hypocrits and blame the one defending himself. What you call "being disrespectful" I call being honest, and what you call "Tommy being argumentative" I call Tommy insulting other people.

    I understand that Tommy feels threatened that other people don't believe in the Bible and promote a non-theistic worldview but that doesn't give her the right to lash out and be aggressive.
    Only there occasionally

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    That was a response to her targeting me. Again, in my first post, I was just saying:


    Where do you see disrespect here? To which she responded:



    I can clearly sense some snarky sarcasm, can't you?

    Then she posted:


    So I ask you again, who is disrespectful?

    I never criticised her faith (I don't think @Duschia did either, she was pointing what Jung thought of the Bible), and was specifically answering to the fact that she was insinuating that I don't care about Fi when she's the one aggravating relationships in this thread by arguing and accusing others instead of trying to calm down and listen to other people. So let's not become hypocrits and blame the one defending himself. What you call "being disrespectful" I call being honest, and what you call "Tommy being argumentative" I call Tommy insulting other people.

    I understand that Tommy feels threatened that other people don't believe in the Bible and promote a non-theistic worldview but that doesn't give her the right to lash out and be aggressive.
    You came to mock me it in chat first (and then you came to apologize), and after you did it in random thread too, where nanashi and duschia went rampant and then you went to mock about religious Delta ppl and then you came here AGAIN to say that the approach I was talking is not Fi but So first. Then its YOU the one who's retyping me due my religious convictions (and mocking me in two other occassions before) and then you came to say that I'm being sarcastic, and to say "oh, leave me alone" really?

    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Haaa, SJs and "God", always the same story. Got told last time by an SLI friend and her LSE husband that "I'll end up in hell". They didn't make a distinction between the dream world, which feeds our imagination, and reality. Wanting to believe something doesn't make it true; stories don't tell us something about the world, but about ourselves. There is no more empiric evidence for any paradise or God than there is for Narnia in my wardrobe, so from my perspective it's completely irrational to start behaving like there was. Yet people choose to devoutly follow not what they can deduce from their perceptions but what appeals to their primitive intuitive cloud cuckoo land. I sometimes get a feeling of being in contact with a higher reality, a 'divine' dimension of human existence and of the world. I think this is part of being human, instead of projecting that feeling onto some higher entity.


    It's easy to fall prey to holy books, people or teachings when one is insecure about one's own judgement and afraid to be wrong; it feels sooo good when you can delude yourself into believing you have understood the order, the fate and rules of your own existence. And yet, in the face of the unknown, one cannot but feel that any knowledge is built on empty assumptions. To fight this 'fundamental doubt', people start participating in rituals like praying, diets, commemorations, festivities and so on. Gradually, people lives are so entagled in a religion that it's not about the truth or the faith anymore. It becomes about a way of life, about the antidote to the emptiness of existence. Ultimately, it becomes easier to reject any criticism than to have to question one's entire lifestyle and reassuring bedtime stories.


    I think one has a lot to learn from spiritual texts, as long as one retains a critical mind and stays in a relationship of equals with them. Real faith doesn't exist without doubt, strength without moments of weakness, courage without fear. I admire people that believe that "God has plans for them" despite all the hardships of life, I really do. That's the faith of the strong, the faith in hope. Personally, I prefer to believe that nothing is perfect, unchanging or absolute, not even a "God".

    Yet, I'm looking for higher love. I just don't think it's outside of me, some extraneous God. If I can feel it, what difference does it make anyway?
    theres someone being clearly sarcastic, easily triggered, feeling threatened and harassing ppl over and over and ITS NOT ME. If the above post is you "never criticising my faith" I wonder what it is. Mb its just you being "honest" and I really hope that you are not so hijacked in your own self righteousness that you forget that I also have the right to be "honest" and I don't have to stay quiet when ppl harass me in sneaky (like in this thread) or open ways over and over. If you feel triggered or threatened by what I think or believe, I'm sorry but is not my fault. I'm not going to stay quiet about my beliefs or convictions when you quote me just to make you feel good about your own.

    Have a good day and please leave me in peace (aka alone). I will do the same.
    I really hope you'll be able to do so!
    Last edited by Tommy; 10-20-2020 at 06:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Then its YOU the one who's retyping me due my religious convictions (and mocking me in two other occassions before) and then you came to say that I'm being sarcastic, and to say "oh, leave me alone" really?
    Bro, she always said you were SLI, it's just that she sees you as so, not sx first right now (and a 1 based on self-righteousness in convictions, like sol - and you could see that in sol but not in yourself). Great, big retyping.

    You have a right to state what you think and value, but don't expect people won't try to discuss, ask, question. We may stop but another will come. If you want to be truly left alone 100%, just don't write (and no, I don't recommend that to you, because I think you should write and improve yourself by writing, talking, exchanging opinions - something that is very delta, gamma, whatever, human). You will meet people questioning you IRL on various matters. In the future, you may have your own children doing you so. You won't run away from it other than by isolating and stagnating. And it's not only me who is going to tell you so - I think so far you've gotten those signals from people of all four quadras. Time will prove me right, even if you don't want to hear it.

    And no, that big quote is not harassing you at all, it's just written by someone who is an atheist and sees it (religions) that way. Unless you are for blasphemy law (link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law). It's their opinion (and huh, a bit snarky critique - not an insult - supported by Te so far). I don't think anyone writing to you wants you to 'stay quiet so they feel right about themselves and their opinions' (lol), but disagrees more or less strongly with you, and that's it. It's coming from the same reason I point out racism of some members here - it's not about /me/ and what it makes me feel (I couldn't care less, it would be very weird for me to see it as 'touching me'), but about /what they convictions mean and could do to others and lead us all if realized and followed/. If I see them as dangerous and/or factually inaccurate in many ways - I point it out so they can improve and someone else doesn't get mistaken (and fails to improve or gets worse); that's it. If I'm wrong, I correct myself and improve on my mistakes, so in the future I will be better.

    (Mind it sb defending you here identifies as SLE, and onfiree who also shared your views identified as LSI)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    That was a response to her targeting me. Again, in my first post, I was just saying:


    Where do you see disrespect here? To which she responded:



    I can clearly sense some snarky sarcasm, can't you?

    Then she posted:


    So I ask you again, who is disrespectful?

    I never criticised her faith (I don't think @Duschia did either, she was pointing what Jung thought of the Bible), and was specifically answering to the fact that she was insinuating that I don't care about Fi when she's the one aggravating relationships in this thread by arguing and accusing others instead of trying to calm down and listen to other people. So let's not become hypocrits and blame the one defending himself. What you call "being disrespectful" I call being honest, and what you call "Tommy being argumentative" I call Tommy insulting other people.

    I understand that Tommy feels threatened that other people don't believe in the Bible and promote a non-theistic worldview but that doesn't give her the right to lash out and be aggressive.
    Not from your initial posts, but from other people’s who were being disrespectful, and you simply played off her responses to them where she’s obviously going to be rightly irked.

    I did sense some slight dismissiveness in your post to her though which is what warranted her reply to you. I didn’t think it was disrespectful towards you or your beliefs though, like you and others have been towards her.

    If you had wanted to discuss with her respectfully, maybe you should have induced a one-on-one conversation with her in the first place instead of simply criticizing her post in third person.

    Also, you were the first one to say she was being “argumentative” and I was responding to that. My point was that I don’t even think she’s looking to be argumentative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    I don’t have previous context on this but imho Tommy’s post should never have been over-analyzed for implying things about Fe and religion *in practice.* regardless of what connections you may (or not) make bw religion and Jungian theory. I think she literally was just trying to provide support to the OP.

    Things that came after felt like purposeful provocation (hence her ire) but it also seems to be deriving from some previous history, so idk.
    It only makes sense if you look at the past and previous history of what was happening and how Tommy reacts in general (and I usually dislike talking about someone in third person, lol, that's why I'm mostly addressing her directly in posts). One thing that was referenced often ITT was a discussion about the Bible and then abortion back then, you can find it starting around here and lasting maaaany pages: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Thread/page108 (but probably it was before that, possibly in the chatbox; and ofc other things were and are being referenced)

    You could have easily discussed that 'it's not what I meant by saying so' and 'my words shouldn't be analyzed in that way, you misunderstood, here is the other side' but apparently it's easier to claim that someone is not type they think they are and generally think everyone is there to hurt others or to make themselves feel superior or whatever. And it's not like Tommy can't do so, because you could see that in part of her response to Freelance. There is no good will and assuming that someone else is of good will. And there is a lot of being stubborn and trying to reverse sides, or do some logical manipulations here and there.

    Jung called Christian love extroverted, but you can easily discuss it and so on. That indeed in many Churches today it's more Ti/Fe but original Jesus intentions were stemming from Fi (and I actually think so so far, but you had I think Subteigh who is EII, pointed out hypocrisy here and there and typed Jesus EIE back then).

    (And it's not like 'people have problems' with, for example, Abbie, who is a Christian and is able to discuss with others, learn and discover without assuming any bad will and malicious intentions because 'they are questioned')

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    @Duschia

    Hilarious that you think of yourself as a supporter of "rights and freedoms" while at the same time saying that religious ppl don't have the right to express their opinions openly and freely without being attacked, harassed and dragged to unending discussions with dishonest and ill minded people like you two.

    For the record, I've had plenty of friendly discussions with strangers (Abbie and Subteigh included), family and friends from almost all the types about religion, but as long as you ppl keep acting like pricks don't count on me for anything else than pointing at your obvious misdoings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Not from your initial posts, but from other people’s who were being disrespectful, and you simply played off her responses to them where she’s obviously going to be rightly irked.

    I did sense some slight dismissiveness in your post to her though which is what warranted her reply to you. I didn’t think it was disrespectful towards you or your beliefs though, like you and others have been towards her.

    If you had wanted to discuss with her respectfully, maybe you should have induced a one-on-one conversation with her in the first place instead of simply criticizing her post in third person.

    Also, you were the first one to say she was being “argumentative” and I was responding to that. My point was that I don’t even think she’s looking to be argumentative.
    Well, @Tommy I'm sorry if my first post came across that way. My point was not to be dismissive but to offer a way of interpreting your previous post from the perspective of socionics and enneagram, because that's the point of this forum. If I quoted you in my post, it's because I definitely wanted you to react to it; we're here to discuss and exchange insights.


    @sbbds I don't really care about religion or faith, that's why I wrote that I am an agnostic. It's often the believer who sees the agnostic as dismissive and not the way around and I understand that it's because the agnostic is careless about something sacred to the believer, but again, that doesn't give someone the right to lash out and be aggressive. Right now it feels as if I'm forced to care just to spare the sensibility of the believer, you see what I mean? It's not about truth or respect anymore but about an "emotional hostage" situation: believers can say what they think but others have to watch their words. Respect has to go both ways, and that means accepting different interpretations of the same book without resorting to insults. Otherwise it's not a relationship of equals.


    I have to admit that my post is a reaction to several other events on this forum, so the "argumentative" label was not only for this thread. I do think Tommy has a short fuse. What angered me was that she assumed that I was against her when I wasn't. So from my point of view she wasn't being "rightly" irked. At least not against me.


    About talking to Tommy, I don't see the point. I don't want to convince her of anything, she can believe what she wants. I'm fine with that, I don't think there is one truth, only multiple viewpoints. I respect her beliefs and think she should be allowed to speak and act on them; the only thing I ask is to be left in peace.



    "To be free of belief and unbelief is my religion." ~ Omar Khayyam
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Well, @Tommy I'm sorry if my first post came across that way. My point was not to be dismissive but to offer a way of interpreting your previous post from the perspective of socionics and enneagram, because that's the point of this forum. If I quoted you in my post, it's because I definitely wanted you to react to it; we're here to discuss and exchange insights.


    @sbbds I don't really care about religion or faith, that's why I wrote that I am an agnostic. It's often the believer who sees the agnostic as dismissive and not the way around and I understand that it's because the agnostic is careless about something sacred to the believer, but again, that doesn't give someone the right to lash out and be aggressive. Right now it feels as if I'm forced to care just to spare the sensibility of the believer, you see what I mean? It's not about truth or respect anymore but about an "emotional hostage" situation: believers can say what they think but others have to watch their words. Respect has to go both ways, and that means accepting different interpretations of the same book without resorting to insults. Otherwise it's not a relationship of equals.


    I have to admit that my post is a reaction to several other events on this forum, so the "argumentative" label was not only for this thread. I do think Tommy has a short fuse. What angered me was that she assumed that I was against her when I wasn't. So from my point of view she wasn't being "rightly" irked. At least not against me.


    About talking to Tommy, I don't see the point. I don't want to convince her of anything, she can believe what she wants. I'm fine with that, I don't think there is one truth, only multiple viewpoints. I respect her beliefs and think she should be allowed to speak and act on them; the only thing I ask is to be left in peace.



    "To be free of belief and unbelief is my religion." ~ Omar Khayyam
    I’ve given my own interpretation of part of Bible before, and in fact Tommy has liked my post on it. So I don’t think she has the problem of an inability to accept multiple viewpoints that are reasonable, but obviously if you handle it in an insulting way, a religious person is going to be emotionally invested and be reactive to that. Your problem is that you feel like you’re being limited in your ability to express yourself, and thus act insulting, but you can actually do it without being insulting. You shouldn’t just project your prior experiences with a type of person onto everybody else of that type (in this case, religious people) you meet from then on without checking if it even applies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I’ve given my own interpretation of part of Bible before, and in fact Tommy has liked my post on it. So I don’t think she has the problem of an inability to accept multiple viewpoints that are reasonable, but obviously if you handle it in an insulting way, a religious person is going to be emotionally invested and be reactive to that. Your problem is that you feel like you’re being limited in your ability to express yourself, and thus act insulting, but you can actually do it without being insulting. You shouldn’t just project your prior experiences with a type of person onto everybody else of that type (in this case, religious people) you meet from then on without checking if it even applies.
    Thanks for the response. I feel we're just talking past each other at this point though(maybe it's something like so-blind vs sx-blind). I don't get why you associate my (a)religious viewpoints with those of Duschia. I am just "on his side" because I think it's his right to point out things he doesn't agree with. If he wasn't respectful, Tommy could have just have said that calmly instead of insulting him and me in passing. I understand that I might have been a (rather small) cause for that, but again, it doesn't excuse her lack of self-restraint. Your argument right now is a bit similar to "the girl wouldn't have been raped if she hadn't put on such a short skirt". Don't put the blame on the origin just because it's the origin, that's denying free will to Tommy and normalizing emotional outbreaks. It's true that I projected some things on Tommy that I have met in other people. @Tommy I retract the accusation of you being bigoted and unable to see other viewpoints if other people have other experiences with you.

    Tbf I didn't follow the whole convo they had because as I said I don't really care about religion. I'm 100% for freedom of faith. So maybe also don't project stuff on me either. If I was insulting at first it was unintentional. What I was fed up with afterwards wasn't about that though, it's about her flaring up again for what I perceived to be no reason and "braking my peace". If I was being insulting in my second post, it was mostly because of that, not because i feel "being limited in my ability to express myself". I have nothing to express. I don't care about the content. What I care about is having thrown to my face that I don't care about Fi by someone who clearly only cares about it when people are nice with them.

    I appreciate a lot that you take your time to reason with me but I think I'll leave it at that.
    Only there occasionally

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Thanks for the response. I feel we're just talking past each other at this point though(maybe it's something like so-blind vs sx-blind). I don't get why you associate my (a)religious viewpoints with those of Duschia. I am just "on his side" because I think it's his right to point out things he doesn't agree with. If he wasn't respectful, Tommy could have just have said that calmly instead of insulting him and me in passing. I understand that I might have been a (rather small) cause for that, but again, it doesn't excuse her lack of self-restraint. Your argument right now is a bit similar to "the girl wouldn't have been raped if she hadn't put on such a short skirt". Don't put the blame on the origin just because it's the origin, that's denying free will to Tommy and normalizing emotional outbreaks. It's true that I projected some things on Tommy that I have met in other people. @Tommy I retract the accusation of you being bigoted and unable to see other viewpoints if other people have other experiences with you.

    Tbf I didn't follow the whole convo they had because as I said I don't really care about religion. I'm 100% for freedom of faith. So maybe also don't project stuff on me either. If I was insulting at first it was unintentional. What I was fed up with afterwards wasn't about that though, it's about her flaring up again for what I perceived to be no reason and "braking my peace". If I was being insulting in my second post, it was mostly because of that, not because i feel "being limited in my ability to express myself". I have nothing to express. I don't care about the content. What I care about is having thrown to my face that I don't care about Fi by someone who clearly only cares about it when people are nice with them.

    I appreciate a lot that you take your time to reason with me but I think I'll leave it at that.
    Well I’m saying that from what I know of Tommy, she wouldn’t just randomly insult people who simply disagree with her views. So it’s most likely you’ve indeed had a history of attacking her and arguing with her for her views before as she’s claimed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Well I’m saying that from what I know of Tommy, she wouldn’t just randomly insult people who simply disagree with her views. So it’s most likely you’ve indeed had a history of attacking her and arguing with her for her views before as she’s claimed.
    Yes, I did make fun of her once when she spread conspiracy theories about Bill Gates and COVID-19. I apologized afterwards, same as I did now, so if that's the reason she's mad at me then maybe she should learn to forgive or at least talk about it with me. I tried to make amends; it's not my problem anymore; if for her it still is, then it's definitely best for me to shun her because I'm not interested in grudges, bitterness and passive-aggressiveness.
    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 10-22-2020 at 11:08 AM.
    Only there occasionally

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    "I hate my duals" = mistype

    edit: or haven't spent enough time with them
    Last edited by Megatrop; 10-21-2020 at 03:39 PM.
    I like to teach others, even though I consider myself to be the most ignorant person alive.
    So if I impose my opinions on you, don't take them as arrogance. It's just that I have a strong willingness to share knowledge.

    The more we focus on something, the clearer it gets, but all the rest of the universe gets blurrier. This applies to our thoughts, emotions, feelings, senses, etc. A great part of living can be summarized as the development of the ability to switch our attention to different aspects of our reality in order to achieve that which we want to see as a completely new kind of reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Thanks for the response. I feel we're just talking past each other at this point though(maybe it's something like so-blind vs sx-blind). I don't get why you associate my (a)religious viewpoints with those of Duschia. I am just "on his side" because I think it's his right to point out things he doesn't agree with. If he wasn't respectful, Tommy could have just have said that calmly instead of insulting him and me in passing. I understand that I might have been a (rather small) cause for that, but again, it doesn't excuse her lack of self-restraint. Your argument right now is a bit similar to "the girl wouldn't have been raped if she hadn't put on such a short skirt". Don't put the blame on the origin just because it's the origin, that's denying free will to Tommy and normalizing emotional outbreaks. It's true that I projected some things on Tommy that I have met in other people. @Tommy I retract the accusation of you being bigoted and unable to see other viewpoints if other people have other experiences with you.

    Tbf I didn't follow the whole convo they had because as I said I don't really care about religion. I'm 100% for freedom of faith. So maybe also don't project stuff on me either. If I was insulting at first it was unintentional. What I was fed up with afterwards wasn't about that though, it's about her flaring up again for what I perceived to be no reason and "braking my peace". If I was being insulting in my second post, it was mostly because of that, not because i feel "being limited in my ability to express myself". I have nothing to express. I don't care about the content. What I care about is having thrown to my face that I don't care about Fi by someone who clearly only cares about it when people are nice with them.

    I appreciate a lot that you take your time to reason with me but I think I'll leave it at that.
    @lkdhf qkb, you seem to me to be a very reasonable, intelligent, thoughtful person. I rarely come across someone who has these traits, and the IEE-Ne whom I know IRL, while very intelligent, can seem to be neither reasonable nor thoughtful sometimes. I know that individuals vary, but I associate calmness and reasonableness more with the IEE-Fi's. Have you ever considered that subtype for yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @lkdhf qkb, you seem to me to be a very reasonable, intelligent, thoughtful person. I rarely come across someone who has these traits, and the IEE-Ne whom I know IRL, while very intelligent, can seem to be neither reasonable nor thoughtful sometimes. I know that individuals vary, but I associate calmness and reasonableness more with the IEE-Fi's. Have you ever considered that subtype for yourself?
    Umm thanks I don't think I'm IEE-Fi because I know some of them and their Ti is non-existent. I might be perceived as thoughful because I got supervised the shit out of both my Fi and Ti by my EII and LSI parents. Everything always had to be justified, legitimated, assessed.
    Only there occasionally

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Umm thanks I don't think I'm IEE-Fi because I know some of them and their Ti is non-existent. I might be perceived as thoughful because I got supervised the shit out of both my Fi and Ti by my EII and LSI parents. Everything always had to be justified, legitimated, assessed.
    I'm dealing with a male EII and male LSI myself right now, and I hate that stuff. The EII isn't so bad, but the LSI is a fucking anal nightmare for detail conformance. Fuck, how do people live like that?

    Again, I shouldn't paint an entire sociotype with one brush, but this LSI is a little H!tler.

    Oh, man. You were raised by a Conflictor and a Mirror. No wonder you think before you speak. No safe haven anywhere.

    The Conflictor is just an alien, but a Mirror looks like someone you know until they take the mask off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    It’s pretty normal to dislike your dual or reject them acc. To socionics lit
    Yeah, rejection and initial dislike are pretty common.

    But that doesn't make sense when you know a lot of them
    I like to teach others, even though I consider myself to be the most ignorant person alive.
    So if I impose my opinions on you, don't take them as arrogance. It's just that I have a strong willingness to share knowledge.

    The more we focus on something, the clearer it gets, but all the rest of the universe gets blurrier. This applies to our thoughts, emotions, feelings, senses, etc. A great part of living can be summarized as the development of the ability to switch our attention to different aspects of our reality in order to achieve that which we want to see as a completely new kind of reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    How many is a lot though? 2-3? In person or online?

    and no, personally people underestimate how jarring an underdeveloped suggestive function can be esp. when for all intents and purposes they don’t *act* like they value it. I would venture a guess that that’s not entirely uncommon. Shutting down suggestive Fi for example can contribute to pretty cold-blooded relational and emotional behavior. None of this is on the other person, “being mistyped” etc.

    duality isn’t easy esp when in fact you’re pairing a negativist and a positivist who as complete opposites of each other.

    on the hand tho some people have extensive duality experience via family or whatever it is, it’s part of their development so they might know just the right approach, or find it easier to establish rapport with a dual, weed out the “bad ones” so to speak, etc.
    Yeah, I can see the truth behind what you're saying.
    It's common for you to disdain, ignore and reject (underestimate) them in the beginning

    1. After you know them well enough, it's possible you may love and hate at the same time, but saying that "hating" alone is all is not fair
    2. I can see that one can actually hate their dual if they're very undualized and have not met enough people to compare.
    3. Also, you are most likely to "hate" some behavior of your dual, but as you don't know them well enough, you can't say you hate "them"

    What I mean is that we tend to have no feelings for them instead of "love/hate". In my experience I have loved and hated someone at the same time, but that's a different kind of hate. It's not a hate because you are hurt, but rather because they're forcing you to pay attention to something you tend to be unaware of.

    edit: I have had close relationships with what I consider duals and conflictors, and it's a totally different kind of "hate" (I would say hurt is better). Both your dual and your conflictor will hurt you, but you will tend to understand your dual's point after some time and reflection, but with your conflictor you feel completely worthless and helpless (and exposure to them may induce neurosis).
    I like to teach others, even though I consider myself to be the most ignorant person alive.
    So if I impose my opinions on you, don't take them as arrogance. It's just that I have a strong willingness to share knowledge.

    The more we focus on something, the clearer it gets, but all the rest of the universe gets blurrier. This applies to our thoughts, emotions, feelings, senses, etc. A great part of living can be summarized as the development of the ability to switch our attention to different aspects of our reality in order to achieve that which we want to see as a completely new kind of reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    This is a common pattern at this point and it's not funny at all. And it's always retyping someone as beta.
    Idk why you are even complaining about anyone else doing this lol because you’re basically the #1 person on the site who does this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Thanks for the response. I feel we're just talking past each other at this point though(maybe it's something like so-blind vs sx-blind). I don't get why you associate my (a)religious viewpoints with those of Duschia. I am just "on his side" because I think it's his right to point out things he doesn't agree with. If he wasn't respectful, Tommy could have just have said that calmly instead of insulting him and me in passing. I understand that I might have been a (rather small) cause for that, but again, it doesn't excuse her lack of self-restraint. Your argument right now is a bit similar to "the girl wouldn't have been raped if she hadn't put on such a short skirt". Don't put the blame on the origin just because it's the origin, that's denying free will to Tommy and normalizing emotional outbreaks. It's true that I projected some things on Tommy that I have met in other people. @Tommy I retract the accusation of you being bigoted and unable to see other viewpoints if other people have other experiences with you.

    Tbf I didn't follow the whole convo they had because as I said I don't really care about religion. I'm 100% for freedom of faith. So maybe also don't project stuff on me either. If I was insulting at first it was unintentional. What I was fed up with afterwards wasn't about that though, it's about her flaring up again for what I perceived to be no reason and "braking my peace". If I was being insulting in my second post, it was mostly because of that, not because i feel "being limited in my ability to express myself". I have nothing to express. I don't care about the content. What I care about is having thrown to my face that I don't care about Fi by someone who clearly only cares about it when people are nice with them.

    I appreciate a lot that you take your time to reason with me but I think I'll leave it at that.
    The thing is I never insulted you. I told you to stop acting like a dick and prick in two posts above and that's not even insulting you as person. Just telling you to behave in an appropriate way which shouldn't be a huge effort for someone who's see him/her self as my "dual". So, this whole thing about me insulting you or having lack of restrain are false accusations to hide the fact that you don't have a reason to excuse your behavior and you don't want to rectify or take responsibility for it.

    Then its you the one who were actually doing all the things that you and duschia accused me of doing. I don't even know how you keep lying about what's out there for everyone to see and read. As follows:

    -You retyped me first (and I was accused by you two for doing the same with you …reasoning?). **Edit. I retyped you mostly because in previous occasions you have said that you don't even fit in what you call the "stereotype" of IEE (most of what you mention is not tied to any stereotype but to dimensionality of elements).

    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Yeah. That's rather the stereotype of IEE : the manic pixie dream girl. This girl "exists solely in the fevered imaginations of sensitive writer-directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures."

    I'm not sure that to illustrate a type, referring to a meticulously prepared performance is the best approach. What exactly are you basing your typing on when watching that video? I too think those two could be IEE-Fi, but right now, by posting such surface level stuff you're actually reducing our understanding of what IEEs are/could be. It's along the lines of "examples of LII" = posts a picture of a nerd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    There are interviews of both. Look for them on yt. I'm not basing my typing in something superficial as look but in what they say, how they act and the IEEs I know irl. Plus my whole typing list is in my blog. Maybe you are the one who's looking superficially for understanding and therefore your wrong judgement.
    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    I'm not an oversensitive hippie that cries myself to sleep when thinking about all the atrocities happening in the world. I'm too self-centered to care

    More seriously: I'm not that tactful, outgoing or emotionally demonstrative and most new people scare and drain me. I don't play ethical 'games', like in the article by Strat. I can be harsh when someone gets on my nerves too much. Very very daydreamy and scattered.
    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    ...
    PS: I wonder sometimes how a dual relationship with SLIs is supposed to work if they can't make me feel anything(other than being annoyed at how bad their emotional awareness is).
    Also I'm not SLI-Te. I used to score SLI-1Te but since a couple of years ago I've been scoring SLI-0, so No Subtype or undifferentiated. I'm married to an IEE-Ne who pretty much fits what you call "stereotypes" of the type (and actually he often cries so go figure if its an "stereotype" or a reality for those who are actually IEE). We both score our types in tests, and we don't base our relationship in "church" as you said (which I never said either, guess you assumed it due your preconceptions about religion). We started our relationship 5 years before we became christians and Jesus helped us to improve our relationship greatly. We got married after 11 years of relationship. The role he has in duality is basically he providing Ne in several forms (changing the atmosphere and the routine frequently, getting new interests, making social connections, expanding constantly the perspectives through getting and sharing DAILY new information and suggesting me get new skills and try new things that I like) while using Fi to be sensitive about my feelings and being able to keep up with personal moral standards which are based in our faith and in our type values. In the other hand, you and I dont know each other, but if what you described above is true, but unless you are 16, there's a big chance that your type is a different one. For the rest I really don't care about what you want to type, just giving my 2 cents now.



    -You criticized my religious beliefs (and then denied it).

    -You dismissed not just one but ALL of my sayings in most if not ALL of our interactions in the forum so far (interactions ALWAYS initiated by you btw) .

    -Instead of taking responsibility of your wrong doings you accused me of the things that you have been doing to me all this time.

    -You apologized twice but at the same time keep saying that everything is my fault because I react with emotions insulting you (which is a lie as you are the one who write posts out of emotions instead of reason or facts, having to apologize afterwards).

    -You keep talking trash about me in third person with others in this thread accusing me of stuff that duschia and you invented to try to justify your projections and prejudices.

    -You proactively support harassment, religious discrimination and bulling even if you say you don't care.
    Last edited by Tommy; 10-22-2020 at 04:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    The thing is I never insulted you. I told you to stop acting like a dick and prick in two posts above and that's not even insulting you as person. Just telling you to behave in an appropriate way which shouldn't be a huge effort for someone who's see him/her self as my "dual". So, this whole thing about me insulting you or having lack of restrain are false accusations to hide the fact that you don't have a reason to excuse your behavior and you don't want to rectify or take responsibility for it.
    Ok I'm going to try a last time, for the sake of making amends. I believe in amends. My problem with you is not Fi, it's Fe; it's like you don't even see how you come across. It's too complicated to explain, but let me ask you a Fi question: You have the right to say I insulted you, but I don't? If I felt insulted, do you think you have the right to gaslight me into saying you never insulted me? You did on several occasions. It was mostly in reaction to some jabs on my part, but you're definitely not innocent either.

    If I don't excuse my behaviour(apart from what I already apologized about) it's because I stand 100% behind it. I'm not ashamed of anything I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Then its you the one who were actually doing all the things that you and duschia accused me of doing. I don't even know how you keep lying about what's out there for everyone to see and read. As follows:

    -You retyped me first (and I was accused by you two for doing the same with you …reasoning?). **Edit. I retyped you mostly because in previous occasions you have said that you don't even fit in what you call the "stereotype" of IEE (most of what you mention is not tied to any stereotype but to dimensionality of elements).







    Also I'm not SLI-Te. I used to score SLI-1Te but since a couple of years ago I've been scoring SLI-0, so No Subtype or undifferentiated. I'm married to an IEE-Ne who pretty much fits what you call "stereotypes" of the type (and actually he often cries so go figure if its an "stereotype" or a reality for those who are actually IEE). We both score our types in tests, and we don't base our relationship in "church" as you said (which I never said either, guess you assumed it due your preconceptions about religion). We started our relationship 5 years before we became christians and Jesus helped us to improve our relationship greatly. We got married after 11 years of relationship. The role he has in duality is basically he providing Ne in several forms (changing the atmosphere and the routine frequently, getting new interests, making social connections, expanding constantly the perspectives through getting and sharing DAILY new information and suggesting me get new skills and try new things that I like) while using Fi to be sensitive about my feelings and being able to keep up with personal moral standards which are based in our faith and in our type values. In the other hand, you and I dont know each other, but if what you described above is true, but unless you are 16, there's a big chance that your type is a different one. For the rest I really don't care about what you want to type, just giving my 2 cents now.

    In what way is that a problem that I retype you? Is doubt something forbidden? If I had known that you are so sentive about your type I wouldn't even have tried, so again, no bad intention I still think you're SLI-Te and your husband IEE-Fi though, that's my right to say, same way you're "giving your 2 cents". And maybe, I say mayyyyyybe I'm right and you're wrong and you should accept differing opinions.

    I never accused you retyping me btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    -You criticized my religious beliefs (and then denied it).
    I shared my opinion on religions on the public thread because it was a topic at that moment. If I offended you I'm sorry, but I won't retract anything about that because it's my right to say what I think.

    If I denied it, it's because I didn't refer to you at any point in this post and I didn't get why you are making this personal. I was never targetting your beliefs in particular and you fishing up my posts from 6 months ago feels like a witch hunt to me. Are you sure it's not you who is posting out of emotions? Grudges?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    -You dismissed not just one but ALL of my sayings in most if not ALL of our interactions in the forum so far (interactions ALWAYS initiated by you btw) .
    It was never my goal to undermine you. It's never personal, I just try to get the most accurate picture of socionics theory and so should you. If we both try to understand each other instead of seeing it as dismissing each other maybe we could actually get somewhere. I was always interested in your input, that's why I kept trying to bring you to talk, and defend your point of view. It's not about being right, it's about finding the truth together. At least that's my point of view. If you prefer not to interact with me, I'm fine with that too. Just tell so.

    Me posting something after you or quoting you doesn't make it an interaction unless you respond to it. Most of the time you didn't or you were just a little defensive, only now do I get to see that you're pissed. Couldn't you have told me this directly instead of blowing up in this thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    -Instead of taking responsibility of your wrong doings you accused me of the things that you have been doing to me all this time.
    Again, I didn't know you were gathering all this anger, because I don't see what I do as "wrongdoings". I could see it as harsh criticisms maybe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    -You apologized twice but at the same time keep saying that everything is my fault because I react with emotions insulting you (which is a lie as you are the one who write posts out of emotions instead of reason or facts, having to apologize afterwards).
    Wow, it's the first time someone blames me for apologizing. Do you actually understand it's because I care about you NOT staying pissed ?

    I never said everything is your fault
    . I said that you have a short fuse because I didn't get where all this aggression was coming from. How would I have guessed you spend your afternoons getting pissed at each of my posts and making a timeline of them in your evil basement?(this is a joke)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    -You keep talking trash about me in third person with others in this thread accusing me of stuff that duschia and you invented to try to justify your projections and prejudices.
    Yes I talked in the third person in this thread because I'm not going to pretend I like interacting with you. I prefer having some distance from emotionally unstable people. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in what you think though.

    I already apologized about the projection part, I don't know you that well anyway, so there wasn't any way to relate to you other than through projection. It doesn't mean that it's OK, that's why I apologized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    -You proactively support harassment, religious discrimination and bulling even if you say you don't care.
    If you refer to me making fun of you about the conspiracy theories and Bill gates, well yea, there is just that much BS I can handle. I would retort: you support the spreading of misinformation and anxiogenic worldviews that have no empirical basis other than some internet articles. I made my own research about that.

    If you refer to my views on religion, me not liking religions(as does Aaron, and you think he's IEE right?) doesn't mean I support harrassment or bullying. As said above, I support freedom of faith, you should believe what you want and do as you please(="I don't care"). I understand you being sensitive about these topics, but this sensitivity doesn't mean that I have no right to judge things as I please(your husband, who you are comparing myself to when saying I'm not IEE, already has the same values as you, so it's pretty easy for him to be sensitive). It's not against you. My life doesn't revolve around triggering you.

    You spend your time accusing everyone of being bad and wrong and evil, yet you don't understand when I say you have trouble cultivating good relationships. You are projecting hate where there is none. I do accept and tolerate you, even if I don't specially like you. I don't feel the same coming from you.
    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 10-22-2020 at 01:04 PM.
    Only there occasionally

  31. #71
    ÉL QUE SABE, SABE DEAD's Avatar
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    For a forum full of “calm, quiet, rational” introverted types, you all sure like to raise hell...




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    lkdhf qkb, you seem to me to be a very reasonable, intelligent, thoughtful person. I rarely come across someone who has these traits, and the IEE-Ne whom I know IRL, while very intelligent, can seem to be neither reasonable nor thoughtful sometimes. I know that individuals vary, but I associate calmness and reasonableness more with the IEE-Fi's. Have you ever considered that subtype for yourself?
    Mb she's esi (you and duschia seem to get her better than I do). I was considering alpha or gamma for her. But ESI makes sense. ESI-Se have that odd quasi aggressive way of approaching to ppl. Edit. Also reminds me of the way Lumps use to interact with ppl.
    Last edited by Tommy; 10-24-2020 at 04:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    for "ikd"?
    what does ikd means?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    @ikdhf qkb
    yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Mb she's esi. I was considering alpha or gamma for her. But ESI makes sense. ESI-Se have that odd quasi aggressive way of approaching to ppl.
    @Tommy, @lkdhf qkb self-identifies as a male.

    And just because he seems reasonable to me and not to you does not mean he's my Dual and not yours. Lol.

    I actually do not think that lkdhf qkb is ESI. The ESI's on this forum give me an "up close and personal and immediate" feeling, while lkdhf qkb seems slightly more remote and analytical to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Tommy, lkdhf qkb[/B][/URL] self-identifies as a male.

    And just because he seems reasonable to me and not to you does not mean he's my Dual and not yours. Lol.

    I actually do not think that lkdhf qkb is ESI. The ESI's on this forum give me an "up close and personal and immediate" feeling, while lkdhf qkb seems slightly more remote and analytical to me.
    I didn't know that. Are you sure you are not confusing him/her for duschia? For the rest, sure. You have demonstrated to be able to identify your duals.

    However, the fact that s/he seems reasonable TO YOU and duschia but s/he doesnt seem like that at all to me could point that she could be in your quadra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    I didn't know that. Are you sure you are not confusing him/her for duschia? For the rest, sure. You have demonstrated to be able to identify your duals.

    However, the fact that s/he seems reasonable TO YOU and duschia but s/he doesnt seem like that at all to me could point that she could be in your quadra.
    @Tommy, here you go: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...9426-lkdhf-qkb

    Click on the "About Me" tab.

    Also, look at his avatar. It appears to be a kid wearing a crown, who is the center of attention in a playland of toy trees and bright colors. I'd call this Infantile and Ne, which with the symmetry and overbright colors points to Delta IEE. Not even Delta NF, because EII's tend to have avatars which play up Feeling much more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Tommy, here you go: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...9426-lkdhf-qkb

    Click on the "About Me" tab.

    Also, look at his avatar. It appears to be a kid wearing a crown, who is the center of attention in a playland of toy trees and bright colors. I'd call this Infantile and Ne, which with the symmetry and overbright colors points to Delta IEE. Not even Delta NF, because EII's tend to have avatars which play up Feeling much more.
    I can't see anything about gender, he's not in my contacts /Friends list. But I'm going to trust your Word because it seems you can see it. Anyway, I don't type ppl based in their avatar pics but through the identification of Quadra values and IEs. Also to me the pic is a woman with a crown and doesnt tell me anything about his type.
    Last edited by Tommy; 10-24-2020 at 01:40 PM.

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    Ich komm' nicht mehr, Ich bin in Chicago Megatrop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    I can't see anything about gender, he's not in my contacts /Friends list. But I'm going to trust your Word because it seems you can see it. Anyway, I don't type ppl based in their avatar pics but through the identification of Quadra values and IEs. Also to me the pic is a woman with a crown and doesnt tell me anything about his type.
    I got curious now
    Do you identify other IEE IRL? If so, how easy is it for you, and how do you get along?
    I like to teach others, even though I consider myself to be the most ignorant person alive.
    So if I impose my opinions on you, don't take them as arrogance. It's just that I have a strong willingness to share knowledge.

    The more we focus on something, the clearer it gets, but all the rest of the universe gets blurrier. This applies to our thoughts, emotions, feelings, senses, etc. A great part of living can be summarized as the development of the ability to switch our attention to different aspects of our reality in order to achieve that which we want to see as a completely new kind of reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    I got curious now
    Do you identify other IEE IRL? If so, how easy is it for you, and how do you get along?
    Yes, I'm married to one. Its not hard for me to spot them, especially irl. I think extroverts are easier to spot to me. I've met 2 IEE-Ne girls too and we got along well (one's a friend from a previous work and the other one was a friend of my hub).
    Last edited by Tommy; 10-25-2020 at 03:56 PM.

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