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Thread: For me, an EII, my extinguishers (EIEs) are the worst

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    Unhappy For me, an EII, my extinguishers (EIEs) are the worst

    I don't know if extinguishment relations are actually the worst in general, maybe for other types it's super-ego, business or conflict relations, but for me, EIEs are worse than SLEs.

    EIEs do feel like my complete opposite in a way that they don't value what I do at all despite being good at it. And for me, it is worse for a person to be good at the same things that I am yet reject them as unimportant, than not to value things they're not even good at in the first place (like SLEs or LSIs). Also, with Beta STs, we rarely even meet because we're so different, and when we do meet, it's easy for me to just ignore them if need be, or simply stay on a superficial level and not go deeper. Heck, I actually have an SLE friend and we're doing fine.

    But EIEs? Just like any other NF type, it's much easier for me to meet them. And when we do, it's harder for me to run away from the feeling of being judged all the time, for not being... more like them, basically, or more beta-ish in general. For being too sensitive and too serious for their taste, for not enjoying and not participating in their kind of humour, for being a party-pooper, I think that's how they see me, in short.

    This is not to say that EIEs are bad as people, or that I resent them, or that I hate them. It is only to say that I think the EII-EIE relations, of any kind, may be much harder in practice than the theory paints them to be (yes, to the point of being equally bad or even worse than conflict relations). Sure, personal maturity plays a huge role, but still.

    I wonder, too, is there any EII here with similar thoughts?
    EII-Fi
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    When the theory works stably strangely, then most possibly that types and IR are other.

    Also. If you deal more with some not good IR types - they may annoy you more due the quantity of communications, not because they are harder as persons. The chance to communicate with more similar types is higher. For example, I had significant conflicts with beta T, but they did not touched me deeply.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Usually, it just seems to go better when fire extinguisher prevents open fire.
    Measuring you right now

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    idiosyncratic type

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    Depends on the individual. I have two very valuable friendships with IEEs. They are so/sx and so/sp. I had an sx/so IEE friend who I fell out with..

    I can have quite deep talks with them and we are similar in some ways. I think maybe it’s less likely for say an sx/sp to be friends with their contrary..or maybe it’s an EIE/EII thing too

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    Yes
    I do have EIE friends from childhood but we never get close and maintain a close relationships because eventhough they are social and can have sizeable parties I always feel as though I am undervalued and somehow watched and judged.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    It also depends for me with IEE. One of my closest friends is an IEE-Ne 7. But there are others where i feel the "extinguishment" way more. I think for me it's a bit better with Ne sub because their Fe demonstrative is stronger. I don't get the feeling they take everything i say in the moment so seriously as IEE-Fi.

    Perhaps the extraverted extinguisher being a beta versus a delta is a factor just because of the nature of the two quadras (at least for EIE-EII versus IEI-IEE) ?

    Even when i feel the extinguishment dynamic more strongly i don't think i feel as undervalued as you describe. Judged, though, yes! I have to hold my tongue and pay attention to my words. I'm too dramatic and verbally provocative and am looked down upon for this.
    Last edited by chocolatte; 09-12-2020 at 06:18 PM.

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    Idk if it's worse than other relations, I got an EIE friend who is like a brother to me. Where the socionics takes place is when I noticed that the way he thinks doesn't always make sense to me and that I have to suppress myself and if I don't I have to deal with his Se. Also his need for Fe and Se. Like he's more about fighting things out and yelling to solve a conflict, when I'm more like let's cool off then talk later, and neither of us can compromise to the other, when I shut down it makes him get more loud and when he gets more loud I just shut down more. And other more nuanced muddy things.

    For instance, my friend will assert weird theories as fact, with NO evidence. My guess is he has a strong Ni hunch about the theory being true, and he will fight me tooth and nail if I don't agree with his weird theory or hunch backed by NO evidence. I naturally search for the evidence via Ne, troubleshoot all the possibilities and I don't come to the same conclusion, and if I tell my friend I don't see what he sees or challenge his theory, his Se comes out to try and get me to blindly submit and agree with his weird theory by yelling and he will try and condemn me morally for not agreeing with his "morally superior" opinion and say how immoral I am for not believing him or being able to see what he sees. And then in turn he'll change his opinion next week. SMH.

    This need to blindly agree with him or else, has made me choose to not share any opinions while I'm around him, pretty much makes me suppress myself. Ne just see's the holes and how 2 things don't connect, but his Ni just has a strong hunch and doesn't want to be doubted, and he gets angry I can't clearly see and am not convinced of his leaps in logic. It's like he wants me to violate my own conscience to get along with him.

    An example: He made a huge claim that a certain race of people are descendants of Native Americans simply because some celebrities' photos looked similar to some Native American photos, therefore the whole race descends from Native Americans. And I'm supposed to blindly believe him without question unless I wanna deal with a hissy fit, so I just let him talk now or change the subject.

    There are also other times where he will connect loose ideas together in an impressive way but in an argument he will take the argument to places I NEVER even guessed or intended for it to go because he's connected it to something else. One time we argued about whether a WWE wrestler was ready for UFC fighting, he turned the argument into UFC fighting is immoral because it's a modern day version of the Roman Coliseum and whoever watches it is a savage. I was impressed with the comparison, that's a cool conclusion, but it never proved whether the WWE guy was ready for the UFC lol. And after spending a good 15 minutes trying to condemn me of being an immoral savage for watching it, next week he's talking to me about Ronda Rousey losing her first fight. -_-. I had to bite my tongue because I'm sure he would have found a way to explain away the contradiction and I would have been locked into another 15 minutes of him telling me what's wrong with me and his way is right.

    I remember a moment where he was playing a video game, he's Ni/Se with Si PoLR so he sees through the game, see's it as an entertainment object and doesn't get fully immersed plays the game in the order he wants, like he clearly sees the reality of the situation, I'm Ne/Si with Se PoLR, so I get fully immersed in the game and play the game in the order I think it's meant to be played, I'm trying to escape the reality and give into the illusion. So we have 2 different ways of enjoying video games. He plays and skips all the cutscenes and just wants to get to the meat of the action. I watched him play a game for the first time and he skipped all the cutscenes, all I did was express some frustration like "Oh man I can't watch you play this lol. Your skipping all the cutscenes." Next thing you know he's giving me another 15 minute lecture about what's wrong with me and how I am like Jazz and he's like the Blues and how I'm too rigid stuck in routine and making all kind of comments about my character based off this little comment, and he's dead serious. All from a comment I made from watching him play a game. So do you think I express any frustration around him anymore? Not unless I want a 15 minute lecture of why I'm wrong and he's right lol. This has happened too many times for me not to know better now. 1 comment springs into a whole slew of accusations that come out of thin air. He coulda just said "You watch the cutscenes? You're lame." or something and saved 15 minutes.

    I've never felt like a party pooper though. But him and his wife are beta and I don't get their sense of humor and they feel judged by me simply because I don't smoke weed and they do.

    I do relate to the idea that we get so close we hurt each other, that I've experienced and the making fun of each other in public. It's like this person sees things opposite of you and the way that's translated is you seeing this person as being "ridiculous."(like that example above) and then when you get around other people, just out of some frustration of having to deal with this person's "ridiculous thoughts/behaviors." you vent to anyone who will hear you out, to show your friend that your not the only one that finds their behavior weird.

    There are times where he reminds me of a shaman that says alot of vague words but if you ask him to explain he says "You are not wise enough to understand the words I teach." "You are not connected to the spirit, if you were you would understand my words." or something, and I never get an explanation.

    But overall things are good between us ever since I decided to just let him say what he wants to say without asking questions lol, things have been peaceful, which was an easy compromise for me. I've had worse IR with other types, because with some other types I don't know what I have to do, or can't find an easy compromise, to get to a peaceful relationship.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 09-12-2020 at 06:44 PM.

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    Also, these relationships are supposed to better one on one, not in groups. There is something special
    about them, even if they can be a bit stressful. With my IEE friends, if I am upset about something (not with them haha) I do feel like they can really empathise. It’s like a shared feeling of knowing how sad and tough things can be and you know they have experienced it in a similar way to you. And they will tell you so..I don’t feel judged by them in these moments..I actually feel very loved.

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    My mom is an EII and there was an odd dynamic. I would often pick up on her mood before she even had time to process it. When I would hurt her feelings, it would be a dark cloud until I apologized.

    My EII bro would constantly poke fun at me with his sharp wit. After awhile, it would wear on me and I would get really upset.

    Other than those couple quibbles, I usually get along with EIIs fine. In fact, I could see myself with one if the right one came along.
    Last edited by Stance; 09-15-2020 at 01:20 AM.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    My mom is an EII and there was an odd dynamic. I would often pick on her mood before she even had time to process it. When I would hurt her feelings, it would be a dark cloud until I apologized.

    My EII bro would constantly poke fun at me with his sharp wit. After awhile, it would wear on me and I would get really upset.

    Other than those couple quibbles, I usually get along with EIIs fine. In fact, I could see myself with one if the right one came along.
    How many times have I said Fe is about picking emotions out of people
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    How many times have I said Fe is about picking emotions out of people
    ha, I meant to say "picking up on moods". Can you please clarify what you mean... I'm just curious.

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    Tbh I feel ya. I want to kill every IEI I know, and the EIE's I know should make the world a favour and slit their wrists.
    Feed me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    Tbh I feel ya. I want to kill every IEI I know, and the EIE's I know should make the world a favour and slit their wrists.
    The most annoying delta NF people I know can't get off their damn soapboxes. Examples: a vegetarian guilting me for eating meat, drugs are bad, don't cuss around me. We are all going to die because of Trump, google/amazon are evil while unknowingly enjoying the convenience that google/amazon brought.

    But most seem sane and chill.

    @tuathe: now that I think about, if you don't share similar core values with the EIE: religion, politics, diet, sexuality, there can be a lot of friction between the two types. When I feel like a EII is being too sensitive and too serious, I often feel like I am being judged for my values not meeting their expectations. And then I feel like I am walking on eggshells around the EII.
    Last edited by Stance; 09-15-2020 at 02:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    The most annoying delta NF people I know can't get off their damn soapboxes. Examples: a vegetarian guilting me for eating meat, drugs are bad, don't cuss around me. We are all going to die because of Trump, google/amazon are evil while unknowingly enjoying the convenience that google/amazon brought.

    But most seem sane and chill.

    @tuathe: now that I think about, if you don't share similar core values with the EIE: religion, politics, diet, sexuality, there can be a lot of friction between the two types. When I feel like a EII is being too sensitive and too serious, I often feel like I am being judged for my values not meeting their expectations. And then I feel like I am walking on eggshells around the EII.
    *arf* *arf*

    >panting

    :">

    LSI-H - - Melancholy|Sanguine - 6w5-4-8 Sp/Sx - MBTI IST
    Oldham's Vigilant Type

    “The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed.”
    ― Carl Gustav Jung ―


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    I had an EII Ne friend with EIE mom and she told me daily how much she hated her. I find interesting that my friend still acting all complacent and nice with her mom 24/7. On the other hand my friend was unhealthy and I think it was due the unhealthy family relations. The father was SLI and the mother EIE, so my friend was basically a child of conflict. Her dad was the only family member she seemed to love or identify with and she hated that her mom scared him away.
    Last edited by Tommy; 09-15-2020 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    The most annoying delta NF people I know can't get off their damn soapboxes. Examples: a vegetarian guilting me for eating meat, drugs are bad, don't cuss around me. We are all going to die because of Trump, google/amazon are evil while unknowingly enjoying the convenience that google/amazon brought.

    But most seem sane and chill.

    @tuathe: now that I think about, if you don't share similar core values with the EIE: religion, politics, diet, sexuality, there can be a lot of friction between the two types. When I feel like a EII is being too sensitive and too serious, I often feel like I am being judged for my values not meeting their expectations. And then I feel like I am walking on eggshells around the EII.
    Both are annoying as fuck. EII's Fi1 and Ti role combined make them annoying as shit. And EIE's, well, anything about EIE's annoy me, two I met had the greatest lack of honor and decency. I repeat, die.
    Feed me

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    The most annoying delta NF people I know can't get off their damn soapboxes. Examples: a vegetarian guilting me for eating meat, drugs are bad, don't cuss around me. We are all going to die because of Trump, google/amazon are evil while unknowingly enjoying the convenience that google/amazon brought.

    But most seem sane and chill.

    @tuathe: now that I think about, if you don't share similar core values with the EIE: religion, politics, diet, sexuality, there can be a lot of friction between the two types. When I feel like a EII is being too sensitive and too serious, I often feel like I am being judged for my values not meeting their expectations. And then I feel like I am walking on eggshells around the EII.
    As an EII growing up around a multicultural society I think I was seen as one of the most helpful, accepting and kind people around. Even years later my society of friends from that culture have approached me to thank me for being a “guiding “ hand and a friend. I think that reflects the high Humanist in me but I am not the judge on the other hand so I cannot speak for others
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    The most annoying delta NF people I know can't get off their damn soapboxes. Examples: a vegetarian guilting me for eating meat, drugs are bad, don't cuss around me. We are all going to die because of Trump, google/amazon are evil while unknowingly enjoying the convenience that google/amazon brought.

    But most seem sane and chill.

    @tuathe: now that I think about, if you don't share similar core values with the EIE: religion, politics, diet, sexuality, there can be a lot of friction between the two types. When I feel like a EII is being too sensitive and too serious, I often feel like I am being judged for my values not meeting their expectations. And then I feel like I am walking on eggshells around the EII.
    I had this online 'friend' earlier this year. Not sure what her type was, but she seemed Merry for sure. To be honest, I thought she was smoking hot but unfortunately our personalities clashed quite a bit. I felt she was too harsh, she felt I was too sensitive and negative. I felt she was too merry, she felt I was too serious. I'm an extremely sensitive person and when I brought up my hurt feelings to her, she didn't like it. It made her feel like a bad person, and it gave her anxiety.
    EII-INFj / INFP / Strong E4 and 9 energy / Melancholic-Phlegmatic / Musical-Intrapersonal-Spatial / Kinky-Sensual

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    As an EII growing up around a multicultural society I think I was seen as one of the most helpful, accepting and kind people around. Even years later my society of friends from that culture have approached me to thank me for being a “guiding “ hand and a friend. I think that reflects the high Humanist in me but I am not the judge on the other hand so I cannot speak for others
    I can believe that for sure. Delta NFs, at their best, are some of most "come as you are" accepting, witty people I know. They are the epitome of "each person has their own journey so let's try our best to coexist. But if you encroach on my liberty or someone else's, I will stand up for what's right." Some of the less developed ones can be judge-y towards things that are too mainstream like they are fighting against society just for the sake of it without a true purpose... It's as if they always need something to be angry about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bethanyrose View Post
    Also, these relationships are supposed to better one on one, not in groups.
    thankfully, they did. I've noticed that person is much calmer around me when one on one, as if adjusting to me, which I'm thankful for cause I was afraid it was going to be only me adjusting to them and sacrificing myself, hiding those parts they might not like and pretending to be someone else - but hopefully there's room for compromise and we can be friends

    Quote Originally Posted by Stance
    now that I think about, if you don't share similar core values with the EIE: religion, politics, diet, sexuality, there can be a lot of friction between the two types.
    yeah, thankfully we've got a bunch of things in common, I'm also open to getting into things they like that are foreign to me and they seem to appreciate it, so
    EII-Fi
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuathe View Post
    thankfully, they did. I've noticed that person is much calmer around me when one on one, as if adjusting to me, which I'm thankful for cause I was afraid it was going to be only me adjusting to them and sacrificing myself, hiding those parts they might not like and pretending to be someone else - but hopefully there's room for compromise and we can be friends
    yeah I think if they notice that you are being patient with them they will do it back and vice versa. So much better when both calm (I feel like I can explain myself better and we don’t get wires crossed and say accidentally hurtful
    things) and instead have really nice, supportive and interesting chats which make the friendship ultimately an important one. You can achieve a certain level of respect and the friendship feels quite strong- it might not always be super fun and comfy but there will be good times and you’ll both make effort to check in and be caring (sorry so sappy haha)

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