IEE-Fi advice

[persimmonism]

edit: IEE-Fi not EII!!

(done)

[Beautiful sky]

EII here
I’m horrible at initiating. LSE regularly initiate so that is awesome for me

And I shut down if something is wrong or has bothered me
If someone approaches me from the point of view of “I care about you and I want to speak about why you’re shutting down without any expectation (especially emotional), let’s talk calmly!” I will likely open up.

Just be gentle and non emotional.

[lkdhf qkb]

I'm afraid I'll be too honest and just like how I sometimes feel I have to walk on glass around her when it comes to emotions, she'll also feel that way around me, and she won't say what she really thinks and.. maybe the conversation itself could go well, but, like how things are rn, it's all just words and no actual change.

Maybe she's also afraid of being "too honest"?(what does that even mean? can you be half-honest? wouldn't that still be lying?) It sounds like you're blaming her for being like you, an introverted feeler

Gulenko writes about "mutual disappointment" when introverted feelers are in a relationship, maybe this can help you further understand the dynamic:

Two "Sincere" types:
Each partner in this pair will try in every way to avoid collisions. This stabilizes the couple as a whole. However, if a conflict between them does arise, its cause will be seen in the actions of the other partner. This reduces the degree of reciprocity in relations. Although this pair easily compromises, it is also touchy and lacking in honesty. External problems each partner tries to solve independently, without the help of the other, as each soon becomes convinced that prompting the other to extraverted actions doesn't lead to anything. The consequence of such a position - is mutual disappointment in the competitiveness of each other. However, the existence of a common acceptable goal or purpose can unite "Sincere" couple quite strongly. This goal should be in maintaining a warm psychological atmosphere and existing relations within the framework of significant to them micro-collective. For example, in raising children.

[Lord Pixel]

EII here
I’m horrible at initiating. LSE regularly initiate so that is awesome for me

And I shut down if something is wrong or has bothered me
If someone approaches me from the point of view of “I care about you and I want to speak about why you’re shutting down without any expectation (especially emotional), let’s talk calmly!” I will likely open up.

Just be gentle and non emotional.

.

[lkdhf qkb]

To summarize:
1. It looks like she resents you
2. She thinks you can't understand her
3. She's hot-and-cold from day to day without apparent reason
4. You feel like "walking on eggshells" emotionally around her
5. You feel like you cannot trust her to say what she thinks

Whatever the sociotype, I have trouble understanding why you want to hang out with her. Enneagram 4 have a hard time with emotional stability, but right now she's using you as a dump for her insecurities(like you have to reach out to her otherwise she can confirm her belief that "you don't understand her", or you need to be nice otherwise she'll be offended and become aloof). I don't think you're her friend but rather a sacrificial lamb on the altar of her emotional lability. You can try to adress your issues with her if she really means something to you but there is a high probability she'll become defensive and use this as a confirmation of you being unable to understand her or whatever.

Sorry for not giving you something more positive

[Tommy]

Your concerns remind me of what an IEI female says about me.

If the person is IEE, they don't know how to keep or continue relations (those are the words an IEE told me). Most Extroverted types don't know how to do it ime. They can initiate at first but they suck at keeping up in contact for too long (which is what you are describing). I mean, its not like they are going to seek you or call you forever and ever. That's basically what Introverts do in the relation most often.

About the Delta Beta issue I think is true since opposed values. Its like dogs and cats trying to relate. Is not impossible but their communication styles and "values" are often diametrically opposed.

[Eliza Thomason]

...
If the person is IEE, they don't know how to keep or continue relations (those are the words an IEE told me). Most Extroverted types don't know how to do it ime. They can initiate at first but they suck at keeping up in contact for too long (which is what you are describing). I mean, its not like they are going to seek you or call you forever and ever. That's basically what Introverts do in the relation most often.

....

Tommy I am curious because I don't since this in myself or in the other IEEs I know that I am thinking about. I tend to want to "keep" all of my relationships and grieve if there is a severance, which is uncommon. I keep in touch with old friends, and I don't see them really not continuing. I haven't heard this said about IEEs before.

[Tommy]

Tommy I am curious because I don't since this in myself or in the other IEEs I know that I am thinking about. I tend to want to "keep" all of my relationships and grieve if there is a severance, which is uncommon. I keep in touch with old friends, and I don't see them really not continuing. I haven't heard this said about IEEs before.

The case is IEE-Ne male. Also I've met two IEE-Ne girls and they were like this too.

This trait has been approached by several socionists:

In their pursuit of the possibilities, IEEs readily build a rapport with the people they meet. Frequently, IEEs will be known to have a wonderful variety of acquaintances from multiple walks of life. Nothing is more interesting to an IEE than a new person with unknown qualities they will put a lot of curious energy into drawing out and discovering.

However, the contrast between the number of acquaintances IEEs have and true, close friends is stark. IEEs are readily discerning of the people they talk to and can intuitively judge the level of closeness they want to maintain with that person. They instinctively get a sense of rapport with each individual, knowing if someone feels right or wrong for them. This can manifest as a social pattern for IEEs, becoming excited when meeting new people, before settling into less enchanted attitude with less special individuals over time. IEEs keep many at a pleasant but casual distance, but to the few with they see with greatest potential and goodness, they will entrust themselves fully to.
http://worldsocionics.blogspot.com/2...energiser.html

[Eliza Thomason]

edit: IEE-Fi not EII!!

How can I bring up a problem in our relationship in the best possible way?
EII-Fi 4 has built a silent wall between us because she resents me because of jealousy/admiration. So, she does not understand me because I'm far from perfect. She's never been openly unsympathetic towards (except for the occasional subtle insinuation that I "could never understand") and she's not a bad person, just a tad immature and in the midst of an unpleasant family situation for the past couple years.
I've always gotten the strong sensation we "get" each other on a deeper level, and the few times she lets me in we have wonderful conversations and fun. She agrees with me that she hopes we can spend more time together in the future (and it seems very genuine, but how can I know?) but the next day she is back to being aloof. This is not totally uncharacteristic of her as she's generally pretty aloof, but if I don't initiate, things don't happen. So, I'm sick of being stuck in this limbo, and I want to bring this issue up with her and finally have something happen. If things don't go well, I'll have tried my best and I will move on. Right now I'm okay with being the extra friendly and patient person who seemingly never notices her subtle rejections, but I sense that I'm rapidly reaching the end of this patience.
Please note, I know she enjoys my company and underneath the resentment she has a part of herself that likes me. Please don't question any of the above as that's not the point of this thread- just context.

My question: we are so similar down to the same enneagram wing and instinct stacking even! so we do get each other. on the other hand, i've noticed this beta/delta conflict in how we view and approach relationships. For this reason, I'm not sure how to approach this conversation I need to have with her. I'm afraid I'll be too honest and just like how I sometimes feel I have to walk on glass around her when it comes to emotions, she'll also feel that way around me, and she won't say what she really thinks and.. maybe the conversation itself could go well, but, like how things are rn, it's all just words and no actual change.

What is the best way to approach this conversation and what are some things I should do or avoid? Thx.
Or if you don't know specifically for EII-Fi, in general for delta quadra what are some things a beta should keep in mind when in the arena of relationships/emotions?

I don't really understand why you are perusing this friendship. Is it romantic? Is it because she is in your circle of people you see a lot of, and want to deepen the friendship?

Whatever the motive is I will offer some thoughts from an IEE-Ne point of view, in case it is helpful. Though I do not have an IEI friendship I can relate it to. I think it would be helpful if I did.

Re: envy - if her feeling envy is an issue, this she might be able to clear up if she confronts it. Sometimes I will feel a thing, an annoyance, fear, irritation, caution, i.e., and not know why I feel it. I cannot figure it out in the situation, because if it is a social one I am more outwardly focused at the moment. So I have to go inside and reflect when I am alone, and have some time to figure out the situation with the strong/noticeable emotion I do not understand. I once reflected that I seem to never have a problem with envy or jealousy, so, maybe that is one of the seven deadly sins that doesn't' affect me! Shortly after I decided I was free from this moral fault, I began to remember various times I had experienced envy. I realized at the time I didn't like that emotion so I sort of pretended to myself that I didn't have it! In each case it took a lot longer to deal rightly with the situation because of my denial or burying of the uncomfortable feeling. I realize I am better off looking frankly at the negative thing is and then I can deal with it better and faster.

So if this IEE friend is anything like me, she may be in denial about the negative emotion. Putting the truth on the table is uncomfortable a bit, but I want to deal with truth, so if someone had pointed out to me that they sensed this, I would have been more glad for the truth than uncomfortable. Because then I can deal with it. So maybe you can help her get past it by saying what you said here, "Sometimes I feel like an obstacle in our friendship is you feel an envy of me at certain times, and I accept that becasue I experience it that, too, sometimes - I will tell you about it if you want. But I feel if you knew me better you would not envy me because I am so full of faults. I would sure like us to know each other better." Then she is better off with some time to think these things over on her own. She will come back with something after she does! I think her sense of justice, of wanting to be right in relationships will make her realize she should give this some thought.

Contrary Relations: Think also that she is your Contrary relationship so this relationship goes best when no one else is around. http://www.socionics.com/rel/cnt.htm quote form that:

The extrovert partner normally gets the false impression that the introvert partner is deliberately acting against them. This can bring a great deal of misunderstanding and surprise into these relations, as both partners are convinced that before everything was fine. The introvert partner usually starts suppressing the activity of the extrovert partner and may reproach and criticize them. The extrovert partner in return can behave in the same way.

The most vulnerable position in these relations belongs to the extrovert partner, who may feel as if they are being betrayed. As a result the extrovert partner could start to worry excessively about their next step so as not to make any mistakes and may therefore become very suspicious. Unfortunately the extrovert partner cannot see that their introvert partner is not as bad as they have begun to imagine.

So social situations are where these negative things come out. Remember then that the extrovert gets the short end of the stick in these situations, bringing out the worst of her, for example, as you say, envy.

Quadra values: Beta and Delta have different values and prefer different group behavior so consider if any of those differences factor in your interactions. See this: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...cs-Four-Quadra Being IEI you probably have good insight and sensitivity and can deal with them accordingly one they are in focus.

Other thoughts: Challenge her when she says "You could never understand". Call out and validate what she said, "I hear you say that I could never understand. I know I must seem dense sometimes, or flighty and light. However, I think I have the gift of understanding, and I would like to at least try."

If she seems open some days and aloof other ones it may be because she is experiencing emotions she hasn't processed yet. Or she has a caution she is aware of and hasn't decided what to do about it yet.

If you are pursuing a relationship, not just friendship, then it might be that while she truly appreciates your company, she is just not able to make that commitment, either because of cautions she has about you, or the fit, or just being in a relationship at this time. Maybe you don't have shared values, and something in the interactions has shown her that? You can't do much about that. An IEE should be fine about talking about the relationship, particularly if she is not put on the spot, but you've told her you want to talk about it, and asked it she wan't to talk with you about it, either now or later.

I hope something of this can be of some use to you.

[Eliza Thomason]

The case is IEE-Ne male. Also I've met two IEE-Ne girls and they were like this too.

This trait has been approached by several socionists:

"In their pursuit of the possibilities, IEEs readily build a rapport with the people they meet. Frequently, IEEs will be known to have a wonderful variety of acquaintances from multiple walks of life. Nothing is more interesting to an IEE than a new person with unknown qualities they will put a lot of curious energy into drawing out and discovering.

However, the contrast between the number of acquaintances IEEs have and true, close friends is stark. IEEs are readily discerning of the people they talk to and can intuitively judge the level of closeness they want to maintain with that person. They instinctively get a sense of rapport with each individual, knowing if someone feels right or wrong for them. This can manifest as a social pattern for IEEs, becoming excited when meeting new people, before settling into less enchanted attitude with less special individuals over time. IEEs keep many at a pleasant but casual distance, but to the few with they see with greatest potential and goodness, they will entrust themselves fully to.
http://worldsocionics.blogspot.com/2...energiser.html "

Interesting! I totally relate to the quote. Yes, I have not seen my approach to friendship explained in this way before, but it is all true.