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    Default Recommend a professional typer

    Title says it all.
    @shotgunfingers just got typed by Gulenko, which is quite cool, but also too expensive for my standards. I'm willing to spend at max 60 euros.

    It has to be a person which has published stuff and/or written books and proven to be a knowledgeable socionist.

    (Yes, I already know that with my budget I should sacrifice some of these standards, but I'm stretching it just to give an idea)

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    Timur Protskiy over at the Archetype Center does it for 70$

    Link: https://archetype-center.ru/typing/

    You have to answer this questionaire: http://archetype-center.ru/Socionics...ype_Center.pdf ... in video format.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Timur Protskiy over at the Archetype Center does it for 70$

    Link: https://archetype-center.ru/typing/

    You have to answer this questionaire: http://archetype-center.ru/Socionics...ype_Center.pdf ... in video format.

    Thank you! The guy seems too young and I'm doubting his experience. If I raise the budget can you give me some more names?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    Thank you! The guy seems too young and I'm doubting his experience. If I raise the budget can you give me some more names?
    As far as I'm aware your options are rather limited to these, unless you speak Russian... or I don't know anyone else.

    The guy seems LSI and knows his stuff imo: https://www.youtube.com/c/TimurProtskiy/videos EDIT: he has 14 years experience.

    For a more reliable typing 120$ https://socioniks.net/article/?id=273
    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 09-02-2020 at 10:30 AM.

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    Jack Oliver Aron is a professional typer. 'Professional' as in he doing it as a profession, not as in he being a competent typer.

    May i ask you another question: if a professional typer provides you with your type, will that remove your insecurities about your type?
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    Title says it all.
    @shotgunfingers just got typed by Gulenko, which is quite cool, but also too expensive for my standards. I'm willing to spend at max 60 euros.

    It has to be a person which has published stuff and/or written books and proven to be a knowledgeable socionist.

    (Yes, I already know that with my budget I should sacrifice some of these standards, but I'm stretching it just to give an idea)
    I'd go for Gulenko anyway. It's only 60 euros more than what you are willing to spend so it doesn't matter that much. And he is probably the best. What is the point of getting yourself typed for less if you still can't be sure? It's not that expensive considering it's a once-in-a-lifetime cost.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I'd go for Gulenko anyway. It's only 60 euros more than what you are willing to spend so it doesn't matter that much. And he is probably the best. What is the point of getting yourself typed for less if you still can't be sure? It's not that expensive considering it's a once-in-a-lifetime cost.
    I think it is important to note (and this is from my experience from being typed), that the socionics type refers to the information metabolism and not necessarily to the resulting behavior.
    Example: in my videos imo I was describing stereotypical NTP behavior on my part, such as being messy & disorganized, having a big picture perspective and it wasn't different from my initial VI here.. however Gulenko somehow saw beyond that and understood my information metabolism as LSI imo correctly, at least based on model A & G his observations are accurate.

    imo @Reyne you should watch this video and consider what he says be4 typing.


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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    ...his observations are accurate..
    The problem with Gulenko is that he is LII: he does not observe, he reasons. That's how he came to type you: you fed him -biased- information, and then he drew conclusions from that.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Jack Oliver Aron is a professional typer. 'Professional' as in he doing it as a profession, not as in he being a competent typer.

    May i ask you another question: if a professional typer provides you with your type, will that remove your insecurities about your type?

    It depends on the reasoning. I never trust other people's reasoning. I have to draw my own conclusions. So why am I interested in getting typed by a professional?
    I lack basic grasp of emotions and human behaviour, plus I'm a person that likes to analyze things that actually exist and are measurable. I'm not into things that are vague by nature usually. I have a vague attraction towards the mystical, but I'm not a spiritual or abstract person by nature. I don't fare well in psychology or catching things related to people in general. In fact I initially got into socionics trying to get a little bit better with people, stop offending them without realising, trying to learn a little bit how to act normal by understanding what others expect and how they work. Of course I didn't only use socionics. I just put effort in general in trying to understand how to work around other people. During these 4 years I haven't typed myself (but I've socially improved: not just because of socionics of course), so I think it could be interesting to hear what a psychologist and professional socionist have to say.
    Would I blindly believe in the typing? No. Would it remove incertainties? It depends. I'm curious. I would read the reasoning and if it makes made sense according to me I would value those words. If it wouldn't make sense I wouldn't type that way. I've already given up on my type on my own. I have read so many things. From Jung to Von Franz to Filatova and Stratiyevskaya. It's not a matter of not knowing the system. I just lack the instruments to put myself into the system. So after 4 years I would gladly hear the opinion of a person who does this as a job and whose work and words I've learned to respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I'd go for Gulenko anyway. It's only 60 euros more than what you are willing to spend so it doesn't matter that much. And he is probably the best. What is the point of getting yourself typed for less if you still can't be sure? It's not that expensive considering it's a once-in-a-lifetime cost.
    You're right.

    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I think it is important to note (and this is from my experience from being typed), that the socionics type refers to the information metabolism and not necessarily to the resulting behavior.
    Example: in my videos imo I was describing stereotypical NTP behavior on my part, such as being messy & disorganized, having a big picture perspective and it wasn't different from my initial VI here.. however Gulenko somehow saw beyond that and understood my information metabolism as LSI imo correctly, at least based on model A & G his observations are accurate.

    imo @Reyne you should watch this video and consider what he says be4 typing.


    He talks sense. He's probably also less young than I thought initially. But for me to get to the point of actually paying for something that's as vague as socionics, the typer is expected to be a big name I already have studied. I'm the kind of guy to buy good quality shoes and wear them for years instead of settling for cheap ones.

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    So Socionics after four years hasn't given you the answers you looked for? Do you have any knowledge about mainstream personality psychology? It won't work for everyone, but perhaps diving into personality psychology can complement your knowledge of Socionics and make it more clear what is meant by certain Socionic inisghts.

    I am a little bit skeptical about professional typers. Although I believe a good typer could give you your type in a very short amount of type, it would still take quite an amount of time to observe you to arrive at good reasoning about that type.

    I have no memory of your previous typings, but your answer to my question already seems to have triggered my Creative-Fi. Have you been typed ILI/SLI/LIE/LSE in the past?
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    I found a post in which I typed you SLI based on photos you posted. What is your Paypal email address? So I can send you a payment request, and your problem is solved.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I found a post in which I typed you SLI based on photos you posted. What is your Paypal email address? So I can send you a payment request, and your problem is solved.
    You actually do professional typings?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Panda View Post
    You actually do professional typings?
    No I don't. First of all, my typing methods are antipositivist in nature, based on the principle of Verstehen. I also believe proper explanation of a typing required an extended period of time of observations, which is for all sort of reasons, impractical.

    Also, I believe that a person is not helped by been provided their type without providing an understanding of Socionics. By means of my blog I hope to attribute to people's understanding of themselves and of Socionics, so they can properly type themselves. In the long run, I think that is more helpful.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    So Socionics after four years hasn't given you the answers you looked for? A) Do you have any knowledge about mainstream personality psychology? It won't work for everyone, but perhaps diving into personality psychology can complement your knowledge of Socionics and make it more clear what is meant by certain Socionic inisghts.

    I am a little bit skeptical about professional typers. Although I believe a good typer could give you your type in a very short amount of type, it would still take quite an amount of time to observe you to arrive at good reasoning about that type.

    I have no memory of your previous typings, but your answer to my question already seems to have triggered my Creative-Fi. B) Have you been typed ILI/SLI/LIE/LSE in the past?
    A) Kinda. I tend to not spend time on things I'm not good at. I've read a couple of books about it but it just isn't my subject. I stick around the forum because of habit, but I ain't actively seeking and learning new stuff about anything related to socionics or psychology in general anymore.

    B) SLI is the major typing I get. I got VIed SLI also by a russian man who claimed to be a direct student of Gulenko, who gave a good explanation for the typing. A couple of users think I'm ILI, a good amount settle for ESI, and I get one typing for IEI, one for LSI and another one for EIE (I'm not kidding).

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I found a post in which I typed you SLI based on photos you posted. What is your Paypal email address? So I can send you a payment request, and your problem is solved.
    I appreciate the fact you took the time to look at old posts. <--------but alas this very sweet message is the only payment you'll get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    No I don't. First of all, my typing methods are antipositivist in nature, based on the principle of Verstehen. I also believe proper explanation of a typing required an extended period of time of observations, which is for all sort of reasons, impractical.

    Also, I believe that a person is not helped by been provided their type without providing an understanding of Socionics. By means of my blog I hope to attribute to people's understanding of themselves and of Socionics, so they can properly type themselves. In the long run, I think that is more helpful.
    I'm not much educated in this area, and I can always appreciate being taught something new.

    As for myself, i can't say I fully trust the system itself. I have a good grasp of philosophy and political hostory, so it's easy for me to see the presuppositionalism in a system like Socionics - for example, starting with the idea that human behaviour is predictable, which I'm skeptical of. This puts you outside the system itself.

    Systems of logical reasoning, are by their very nature, consistent. So i can create a new socionics system in which I'm say, LSI. All it takes then, is to create certain narratives around that. Because this is all done online, there's a substantial lack of any real evidence of anything. What proof is there that I'm LII or that sbbds is SLE or whatever? It's almost like a game where the stronger ideology will prevail.

    You could say that I'm outside of Socionics looking in. I also am skeptical of historical narratives and even scientific narratives and anti religious narratives.

    Ofc, i could also be mentally ill, so ignore me if you wish to. I think it's funny that there is this much fighting over what type someone is. It's also exhausting. Maybe @sbbds will give me a hug

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    but alas this very sweet message is the only payment you'll get.
    The story of my life... ;-)
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Here on The16T, we have some non-professional good ones. Adam Strange is a good typer. There are others. (There are also some very confident ones who will gladly type, but probably wrongly). I am good, when I know (as IEEs often can get this), as sometimes I get a sudden absolute sureness, and those times it that turns out to fit with all the aspects. (But I don't have a sureness about yours. If I ever do, I will tell you.)

    Editing to add: Oh, silly me, Reyne, when i wrote that in haste I forgot your penname here, but I did not forget you, or your face. I haven't moved on my "SLI" for you, which I feel sure of. I suggest you check out the opposing Reinins of SLI and the one or two other types you think you might be, and that will likely firm it up for you. https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/dichotomies/r3t1

    P.S. Also read this duality description and see if it sounds like that could be you in a relationship, and if you would feel right with the ways of that dual as described: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Meged-Ovcharov

    And then there is another specific duality article here, and you can scroll down to SLI/IEE, and decide whether your weaknesses are kind of like that, and perhaps, yes, that Dual's weaknesses wouldn't be so hard to put up with.

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ity-Work-Meged

    Once you are sure, if you are SLI, that is, likely the IEE you spot will need to be the one to make more moves to establish a relationship, as she is the Extrovert. But she will sense if you have her in your eye, and take interest. Just be patient because with more interaction you can hook her!
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 09-02-2020 at 04:06 PM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Panda View Post
    Ofc, i could also be mentally ill, so ignore me if you wish to. I think it's funny that there is this much fighting over what type someone is. It's also exhausting. Maybe @sbbds will give me a hug
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Jack Oliver Aron is a professional typer. 'Professional' as in he doing it as a profession, not as in he being a competent typer.

    May i ask you another question: if a professional typer provides you with your type, will that remove your insecurities about your type?
    jack Oliver Aron seems young but I have read a lot of what he is written and I would trust his typing. He has great insights and knowledge.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    jack Oliver Aron seems young but I have read a lot of what he is written and I would trust his typing. He has great insights and knowledge.
    I think he's an idiot who meets all the criteria scientists have listed for charlatans in the fields of astrology, psychics, tarot card reading etc.etc.

    But if people want to lay their destinies into his hands, they deserve to be fooled, and I do not pity them.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    It depends on the reasoning. I never trust other people's reasoning. I have to draw my own conclusions. So why am I interested in getting typed by a professional?
    I lack basic grasp of emotions and human behaviour, plus I'm a person that likes to analyze things that actually exist and are measurable. I'm not into things that are vague by nature usually. I have a vague attraction towards the mystical, but I'm not a spiritual or abstract person by nature. I don't fare well in psychology or catching things related to people in general. In fact I initially got into socionics trying to get a little bit better with people, stop offending them without realizing, trying to learn a little bit how to act normal by understanding what others expect and how they work. Of course I didn't only use socionics. I just put effort in general in trying to understand how to work around other people. During these 4 years I haven't typed myself (but I've socially improved: not just because of socionics of course), so I think it could be interesting to hear what a psychologist and professional socionist have to say.
    Would I blindly believe in the typing? No. Would it remove incertainties? It depends. I'm curious. I would read the reasoning and if it makes made sense according to me I would value those words. If it wouldn't make sense I wouldn't type that way. I've already given up on my type on my own. I have read so many things. From Jung to Von Franz to Filatova and Stratiyevskaya. It's not a matter of not knowing the system. I just lack the instruments to put myself into the system. So after 4 years I would gladly hear the opinion of a person who does this as a job and whose work and words I've learned to respect.

    You sound so SLI here! (And I am not trying to rush your own conclusion about your type).

    My (SLI) husband once, some years back, got way into the true study of astrology for the same sort of reasons that you describe. I also delved into astrology once, years back, before I knew my husband, for the same reasons I got into Socionics [and I like Socionics best, but these two are apples and oranges], which is that I love understanding people deeply. And like everything else my husband and I both look at, we see completely different aspects of the same thing. Like, if we both took the same quick glance of a photo of a scene that we'd never seen, I can almost guarantee that we would see completely different things in that same glance, and we could each describe at length something that the other didn't see at all because of the briefness of the look).

    My husband took a very scholarly approach to astrology and he can explain conjunctions and charts and all the like things that I never took time to understand, as it seemed unnecessary to the overall understanding I sought. I instead fully absorbed all I read on the many aspects and relationships of sun-signs, until I understood them so well (back then) that I could guess everyone's sun sign, even if I just met them - if not on the first guess, then the second (in cases when I'd been hastily overconfident with my first guess).

    Now my husband tells me, as I talk to him about things I read and learn here, that he truly enjoys hearing my thoughts on Socionics (one of the joys of duality - what the other one says you continue to find interesting), and on what I have learned, and how Socionics applies to the people in our lives, and how it explains this or that aspect or action of them. But! In spite of this interest he has NO INTEREST in delving into a Socionics study himself, as he feels he does not have "room in his head", what with all that old astrology stuff swimming in there still! Its all a bit much to learn this system too.
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 09-02-2020 at 05:30 PM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    The problem with Gulenko is that he is LII: he does not observe, he reasons.
    I dont think thats true. LIIs are very observant. Ive seen this first hand when a LII whom I know learned socionics.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    I don't mean to hijack the thread and I apologize if it seems like so, but I do have a question. Does anyone know if Gulenko or Protskiy publishes the videos they receive? I could understand if either of them potentially creates video galleries showcasing clients, with each type having it's own video, perhaps with snippets to highlight the difference in values, needs, desires, interpretations, and so on in each type. But I'm curious if either of them does this now. I was spelunking Gulenko's site and didn't find any evidence of this asides from a man reacting to his results in the link shotgun shared.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyre View Post
    I don't mean to hijack the thread and I apologize if it seems like so, but I do have a question. Does anyone know if Gulenko or Protskiy publishes the videos they receive? I could understand if either of them potentially creates video galleries showcasing clients, with each type having it's own video, perhaps with snippets to highlight the difference in values, needs, desires, interpretations, and so on in each type. But I'm curious if either of them does this now. I was spelunking Gulenko's site and didn't find any evidence of this asides from a man reacting to his results in the link shotgun shared.
    They do:

    I will decline tho. For privacy reasons... maybe. Still not sure.

    Example of LSI Harmonizing on their youtube:

    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 09-02-2020 at 07:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Editing to add: Oh, silly me, Reyne, when i wrote that in haste I forgot your penname here, but I did not forget you, or your face. I haven't moved on my "SLI" for you, which I feel sure of. I suggest you check out the opposing Reinins of SLI and the one or two other types you think you might be, and that will likely firm it up for you. https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/dichotomies/r3t1

    P.S. Also read this duality description and see if it sounds like that could be you in a relationship, and if you would feel right with the ways of that dual as described: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Meged-Ovcharov

    And then there is another specific duality article here, and you can scroll down to SLI/IEE, and decide whether your weaknesses are kind of like that, and perhaps, yes, that Dual's weaknesses wouldn't be so hard to put up with.

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ity-Work-Meged

    Once you are sure, if you are SLI, that is, likely the IEE you spot will need to be the one to make more moves to establish a relationship, as she is the Extrovert. But she will sense if you have her in your eye, and take interest. Just be patient because with more interaction you can hook her!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    You sound so SLI here! (And I am not trying to rush your own conclusion about your type).

    My (SLI) husband once, some years back, got way into the true study of astrology for the same sort of reasons that you describe. I also delved into astrology once, years back, before I knew my husband, for the same reasons I got into Socionics [and I like Socionics best, but these two are apples and oranges], which is that I love understanding people deeply. And like everything else my husband and I both look at, we see completely different aspects of the same thing. Like, if we both took the same quick glance of a photo of a scene that we'd never seen, I can almost guarantee that we would see completely different things in that same glance, and we could each describe at length something that the other didn't see at all because of the briefness of the look).

    My husband took a very scholarly approach to astrology and he can explain conjunctions and charts and all the like things that I never took time to understand, as it seemed unnecessary to the overall understanding I sought. I instead fully absorbed all I read on the many aspects and relationships of sun-signs, until I understood them so well (back then) that I could guess everyone's sun sign, even if I just met them - if not on the first guess, then the second (in cases when I'd been hastily overconfident with my first guess).

    Now my husband tells me, as I talk to him about things I read and learn here, that he truly enjoys hearing my thoughts on Socionics (one of the joys of duality - what the other one says you continue to find interesting), and on what I have learned, and how Socionics applies to the people in our lives, and how it explains this or that aspect or action of them. But! In spite of this interest he has NO INTEREST in delving into a Socionics study himself, as he feels he does not have "room in his head", what with all that old astrology stuff swimming in there still! Its all a bit much to learn this system too.

    Don't worry about not remembering the username lol. I really appreciate your effort and the informations you've shared.
    I guess some people just have a vague attraction towards very few "mystical" systems and just don't want to get too much involved into the other ones.

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    There is no objective certification for typing skills. The main differences are in the typing experience, what theory is used by the typer. Also what useful typing info is taken into account - the more of it, the better. The ones who uses heretical theories should be avoided in the degree they use that - as those heresies are baseless nonsense, generally.

    What can be supposed, that all even experienced typers have low typing matches not far from 50%. This points that most probably almost all of them have significant typing mistakes of tens %. They just type better than most people, but not good.

    After geting opinions from others about most possible your types, read the types theory, type people near and understand your best fiting type by your behavior _and IR effects_. If _all fits good_ then you can be sure in that type. With tens % of mistakes you can't rely on any today typer. You may trust only after own checking of the type.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Ask sol to type you
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    They do:

    I will decline tho. For privacy reasons... maybe. Still not sure.

    Example of LSI Harmonizing on their youtube:

    Wow, I looked at him and guessed LSI. Somehow I am getting better at VI. What I do is look and register an immediate impression of the essence of the person, who reminds me of one or more persons of the same type. In this case, even though he doesn't look like my (only) cousin, his essence is identical. @nice, what do you think? Same type as you?
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    If typology is really unnatural for you, you might be an SF.

  31. #31
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Panda View Post
    I'm not much educated in this area, and I can always appreciate being taught something new.

    As for myself, i can't say I fully trust the system itself. I have a good grasp of philosophy and political hostory, so it's easy for me to see the presuppositionalism in a system like Socionics - for example, starting with the idea that human behaviour is predictable, which I'm skeptical of. This puts you outside the system itself.
    Socionics/Jung is empirical. The discovery of certain typical things in the psyche. Learning Socionics is maybe 99.9 percent about dating, working with different people, life experience etc. so that you check the theory that way and maybe 0.1% about studying the theory itself.

    The predictability of human behaviour is not really an "idea" in Socionics. It follows from the discovery of the types. Of course predictability within certain limits.

    Systems of logical reasoning, are by their very nature, consistent. So i can create a new socionics system in which I'm say, LSI. All it takes then, is to create certain narratives around that.
    But you can't change reality. There is such a thing as Se or Ne etc.

    Because this is all done online, there's a substantial lack of any real evidence of anything. What proof is there that I'm LII or that sbbds is SLE or whatever? It's almost like a game where the stronger ideology will prevail.
    You mean online, in this forum? This is a game to some extent. We are amusing ourselves by guessing people's types. People have seen how well Socionics works in real life and then want to practice their typing skills also online. But this forum is only a very small part of the overall Socionics experience.

    You could say that I'm outside of Socionics looking in. I also am skeptical of historical narratives and even scientific narratives and anti religious narratives.
    I'd say put the philosophy aside for now and learn the real phenomenon that Socionics is referring to (if you still haven't done it). Then later, when you have experienced all the relationships, and you have worked with people from all types etc., then you can bring up the philosophy again, if you still think there is a need for it.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    "Xiong Mao"
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    Thanks for your well thought out response but I don't think you understand what I'm trying to get at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Socionics/Jung is empirical. The discovery of certain typical things in the psyche. Learning Socionics is maybe 99.9 percent about dating, working with different people, life experience etc. so that you check the theory that way and maybe 0.1% about studying the theory itself.
    I notice there is a lot of emphasis on dating which is the least interesting thing to me. If we're talking about dating, there is substantial evidence from real life psychology that we tend to follow certain attractions from our childhood. We carry with us, the relationships from our early childhood and we seek familiarity. There are also other demonstrated affects, like the difference between sexual expression between men and women, hypergamy in women, general promiscuity, the cultural influences, etc. Socionics only captures the interpersonal part of it. This can be extended to other interpersonal relationships and even life experiences as well.

    The predictability of human behaviour is not really an "idea" in Socionics. It follows from the discovery of the types. Of course predictability within certain limits.
    It is not an idea, it's a presupposition. For Socionics to have any kind of validity, human behaviour necessarily needs to be predictable. I am not convinced that it is even true.

    But you can't change reality. There is such a thing as Se or Ne etc.
    I don't understand how you can use the fact that reality exists to refute that systems of logic are internally consistent. I'm pointing out the trap of heavy Ti thinking, precisely that it can result in such systems of logic.

    You mean online, in this forum? This is a game to some extent. We are amusing ourselves by guessing people's types. People have seen how well Socionics works in real life and then want to practice their typing skills also online. But this forum is only a very small part of the overall Socionics experience.
    I think people tend to forget that it is a game at times.

    I'd say put the philosophy aside for now and learn the real phenomenon that Socionics is referring to (if you still haven't done it). Then later, when you have experienced all the relationships, and you have worked with people from all types etc., then you can bring up the philosophy again, if you still think there is a need for it.
    Why are you assuming that i haven't studied the theory? I have done so. Not only that, I have read Jung, and I have read Neitzsche, who is one of Jung's primary influences. But Afaik, Jung doesn't use his psychological profiles to predict behavior. Neither does he use it to calculate compatibility between people. I've studied the theory so much that I have analyzed it out of existence. It's possible to create a system using socionics, but that's about it. All you're doing is systemizing your relationships. If it helps you, great. But it hasn't helped me and it never will.

    But then again, I could be full of shit, so do whatever you feel.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Panda View Post
    I notice there is a lot of emphasis on dating which is the least interesting thing to me. If we're talking about dating, there is substantial evidence from real life psychology that we tend to follow certain attractions from our childhood. We carry with us, the relationships from our early childhood and we seek familiarity. There are also other demonstrated affects, like the difference between sexual expression between men and women, hypergamy in women, general promiscuity, the cultural influences, etc. Socionics only captures the interpersonal part of it. This can be extended to other interpersonal relationships and even life experiences as well.
    There are obviously other factors in attraction/dating than Socionics. But Socionics is an important factor. And you can discover and learn Socionics by dating a lot. The more the better. That's how I discovered duality for example.

    Learning Socionis is to a great extent about sorting out non-socionics factors and trying to get to the type factors.

    For Socionics to have any kind of validity, human behaviour necessarily needs to be predictable. I am not convinced that it is even true.
    To me this sounds like you don't have enough real-life experience with the types yet. To me it's obvious at this point that human behaviour is predictable, to some extent. Or lets say that I know what to expect from certain people.

    Why are you assuming that i haven't studied the theory?
    I didn't really assume that, or I didn't mean to give that impression. From reading what you write I assume that you don't have enough experience with typing people and experiencing the types in real life. All the theory, reading Jung etc. is useless if you don't dive into the practical problem of getting to know the types.

    You need to know what it's like to date a dual, or work with a dual. Many duals. You need to hang out with your conflictor. And so on...

    But Afaik, Jung doesn't use his psychological profiles to predict behavior.
    Maybe it depends what you mean by predicting behaviour.
    He talks about what you can expect from the types. Not detailed prediction, but still. From a LII you can expect some analytical behaviour for example.

    Neither does he use it to calculate compatibility between people.
    Socionics has gone further than Jung here. Jung is aware that type influences people's preferences though.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    @Tallmo are you seriously advocating for promiscuity? I can't take you seriously anymore.

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    SFG, first I will say something, all these people who are doubting your type only have access to your interactions in the forum itself, and not to your personal life, and from what I understood in your comments, Gulenko did have access to your personal life and your decisions, but you don't want to post that analysis for the sake of your privacy. With that in mind you are right when you say that you are LSI, but let me recommend something, and that is that if modern socionics deciphers your informational metabolism and lets personality be defined by psychosophy, then those behaviors that questioners blame on you, that are clearly related to personality, could be explained through your attitudinal psyche.


    I'm going to what I wanted to tell you about, and I hope you don't take it the wrong way, because in no case do I bring bad intentions with this, but rather the opposite, I seek to clarify doubts. If first of all socionic has nothing to do with personality, then MBTI has nothing to do with socionic, so if your MBTI type is, say, INTP, you are INTP in your personality and LSI in your informative metabolism, that is the first conclusion that can be drawn if we adhere to what has been said.


    Second but not least, if socionics is a discipline that specifically seeks to decipher what is our natural internal makeup, then it needs a single methodology to be credible. If there is a vague and diffuse basis on which different schools determine a sociotype by means of different conceptions of IM and by means of different methodologies, then you can be SLI in the old system, ILE in any personal system and LSI in the modern system. If there is no common and definite answer about an aspect of life that should be unique and exact, such as the information filters through which someone processes external stimuli, and if different interpretations can be given of the same cognitive processes depending on the individual theory of each one, then socionics is so abstract and undefined that it is completely useless and does not deserve more attention than a banter, because if we want to study what makes us what we are then we need concrete and unique answers, we shouldn't be content with disparate and half explanations.


    Over time, even being unable to determine my own sociotype (On the one hand, I know myself and my own trajectory in life much better than all the members of this forum, so certain typings that have been made of me do not fit , nor its quasi-identity types, but on the other hand, I have faith in visual identification, because throughout my life I have observed very specific patterns of speech and behavior and I think I can determine some types based on similarity, which is not I can do is determine what types they are, so when someone assigns me X sociotype puzzles me) I doubt the idea of ​​pursuing a professional diagnosis, because different professionals will assign me different sociotypes, since, informational metabolism doesn't have a lot of validity because it is studied with such diverse approaches.


    If Gulenko says one sociotype, but the Archetype Center says another, and both could be valid because they follow the same foundation, then the task of discovering one's own sociotype is almost completely meaningless. Also, what kind of bullshit are intertype relationships if really depending on the approach everything is going to change. Anyway, in the end I will end up opting for Gulenko or something simply to have a definitive answer that explains my behavior and my actions in detail taking into account my own personal trajectory, but I will really have to take it for Hobby because I really cannot have a real accurate response. I'm simply searching for an answer or an argument, made by someone more experienced in the field, that has the knowledge on the subject to disprove this.
    Last edited by Frddy; 09-03-2020 at 02:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    The story of my life... ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    The problem with Gulenko is that he is LII: he does not observe, he reasons. That's how he came to type you: you fed him -biased- information, and then he drew conclusions from that.
    Quoted for Posterity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    @nice, what do you think? Same type as you?
    Not really. But I've sorta given up on getting my type.
    who, me?

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nice View Post
    Not really. But I've sorta given up on getting my type.
    Sometimes you just draw a blank. I thought LSI as soon as I saw him (and I still think so, and anyway, he must be if Gulenko says so). But after I decided he looked like my cousin's type, I listened this guy speak, and his voice and he didn't remind me of my cousin at all (my cousin has a rich, deeper warm voice) ... Among any one type there are the two different subtypes, the four different subtypes, the astrology eastern and western astrology signs, enneagram types, the addition of possible major psych disorders.. etc. etc.! Sometimes maybe aspects of the many other factors stand out to us more than Socionics type.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    I haven't seen what you look like and that's important but based on your posts you seem SLI or ESI-Se.

    The first typings I thought of for myself were EIE, LSI-Ti, LSE-Te, and ESI-Fi (in reverse order actually so what I initially thought was right). When I saw that Northstar mentioned I was ESI, that's what I've finally concluded. Northstar is one of those SLE-Ti who is really good at understanding and describing just about anything; Beta STs are the true "people persons" of the Socion with Gamma SF Se subtypes probably the secondary people persons. Due to lower Ti and not being having high Sensing, the NFs just aren't as good at categorizing as the Beta STs are and they don't see people for what they really are like Se-subtype Gammas do. Some of Augusta's original social roles for the types were quite off too as many, many ILE could live 200 years without inventing anything and half a lifetime without searching for anything unusual, and IEE make terrible, disturbing, and frustratingly inaccurate psychologists (due to Aristocracy, Ti-PoLR, unvalued Fe, and bad sensing; if anything IEE are the inventors of things and the creators of artwork and the LSI-Se, ILE-Ti, and SLE-Ti are the psychologists of the Socion and the ones who try to and are often good at reading everything everyone is doing, feeling, desiring, etc.)

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