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Thread: Asking/Declaring Compatibility

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    I'm a tourist in the land of my own being Megatrop's Avatar
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    Default Asking/Declaring Compatibility

    How does each pair of dichotomies (below) work in interaction?

    asking <- interacts with -> asking
    declaring <- interacts with -> declaring
    asking <- interacts with -> declaring

    I suspect there is a higher compatibility (and better flow) between asking vs declaring, but it seems to me that it will work out as a sort of interview thing: just like Conan O'Brian's.

    Also, I'm sure there's a certain dynamic that doesnt depend on IR but rather on this pretty little baby.
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    Haikus Computer Loser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    How does each pair of dichotomies (below) work in interaction?

    asking <- interacts with -> asking
    declaring <- interacts with -> declaring
    asking <- interacts with -> declaring

    I suspect there is a higher compatibility (and better flow) between asking vs declaring, but it seems to me that it will work out as a sort of interview thing: just like Conan O'Brian's.

    Also, I'm sure there's a certain dynamic that doesnt depend on IR but rather on this pretty little baby.
    Examples (slightly exaggerated for illustrative purposes)

    1. asking-asking:

    students working together to solve some problems but they keep interrupting each other, not allowing one to finish what they have to say

    2. declaring-declaring:

    one person rambling on and on and the other person tuning out or forces a question to stop the rambler

    3. asking-declaring:

    "Hmm seems like a nice night for a walk? The weathers been looking good." (Already knows answer, but asks question to steer into a direction
    aka asking)

    "Duh, Susie, if u checked the weather channel, it'd be no surprise... My walking shoes however seem to have disappeared (he asks a question
    at the end "where are my shoes" but it sounds like/comes off like a statement aka declaring)


    Points of confusion for many:

    --Being an asker doesn't mean you ask a bunch of questions or purposely interrupt the flow of conversation, they ask questions to involve themselves and others into the convo.

    --Asking questions for the purposes of learning (like on this forum) does not make one an asker

    --Asking/Declaring will have a smoother interaction compared to the others - won't necessarily come off like a talk-show interview lol

    --Like the example above a declarer can still ask a question but it'll sound like a statement
    Last edited by Computer Loser; 09-02-2020 at 03:28 AM.

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    100% agree with @onfireee... at least I do that pretty much.

    Some people of my type say they monologue though, and ramble. I personally don't monologue except on rare occasions. And if I do monologue I constantly interrupt myself to ask the listener if they understand or just involve them in some way, like clarifying terms and their past history of what knowledge they have on the topic I'm referring to.


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    Reinin's traits are baseless
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Reinin's traits are baseless
    Prove it.

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    I prefer declaring on declaring. =p Asking-declaring probably seems like it would be the most compatible for most people I guess, but that seems too heteronormative to me. =D

    idk to me its weird and like a Narcissist with their empathetic supply to be in an asker/declarer mode 24/7. It's weird. I could see it working during the courting stage tho, or something maybe but I wouldn't like it long-term. A declarer = narc asshole. asker = loser with no spine.

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    The Evening and the Morning Star Eudaimonia's Avatar
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    I am very "asking"

    Typically speaks in questions. Prefers dialogues to monologues. Tends to use short remarks, because he or she is more interested in hearing the other person than self-expression.
    I tend to interject myself in conversations assuming people will be as ready for interruption as I would be. This has ruffled the feathers of different people.

    I find it really uncomfortable and creeped out when someone is talking and I ask them a question mid-sentence and they just keep talking not acknowledging what I just said.

    Like are we supposed to not act like you just did that? It pisses me off actually. I find it dismissive.

    Typically speaks in statements. Prefers monologues to dialogues. Tends to make detailed speeches, because he or she is more interested in self-expression than hearing the other person.
    But my SO hates being interrupted and does this all the time. She really hates to be interrupted and I learned the other side of it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    I am very "asking"



    I tend to interject myself in conversations assuming people will be as ready for interruption as I would be. This has ruffled the feathers of different people.

    I find it really uncomfortable and creeped out when someone is talking and I ask them a question mid-sentence and they just keep talking not acknowledging what I just said.

    Like are we supposed to not act like you just did that? It pisses me off actually. I find it dismissive.



    But my SO hates being interrupted and does this all the time. She really hates to be interrupted and I learned the other side of it.
    That's interesting.

    I prefer to say my whole piece and then shut up for others to do the same.
    The way my mind works is like building a house of cards, if someone asks a question, it falls.
    The frustrating part is that generaly, I was a few words away from answering the question. I cannot pick back up where I left and gotta build something new.
    Similar with listening, if I'm asked to talk, it falls and I feel lost for a little while. No problem if others are going back and forth at each other.

    Feels like being a cat skidding across the floor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mew View Post
    That's interesting.

    I prefer to say my whole piece and then shut up for others to do the same.
    The way my mind works is like building a house of cards, if someone asks a question, it falls.
    The frustrating part is that generaly, I was a few words away from answering the question. I cannot pick back up where I left and gotta build something new.
    Similar with listening, if I'm asked to talk, it falls and I feel lost for a little while. No problem if others are going back and forth at each other.

    Feels like being a cat skidding across the floor.

    Yeah this is exactly like how my fiancee is.


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    think I’m more asking like irl. On forums I’m maybe more declaring because just the nature of it, easier to monologue. Also I tend to write a hell of a lot more than I talk lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    Yeah this is exactly like how my fiancee is.
    It's funky in a way that duals are supposed to have the opposite attitude.

    Tho declaring folks going asking really messes me up more than asking peeps being themselves. I don't recover from skidding if it comes from the declaring part.
    "Bonsoir! Elle est partie!"
    That's a thing said in french about a homerun in baseball, not coming back from that.

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    I always thought in general F types would be more asking and T types more declaring.

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    I never thought I'd get this good a chance to talk about it, but talanov has made up functions using asking/declaring as questism and declarativeness, so Qi, Qe, Di, and De. I'm just gonna quote his(and added descriptions from the redditor's) descriptions of them so you can read yourself, either way Qi goes well with De and Qe with Di, just like other function pairs.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/JungianTypo...nal_model_the/
    (all quoted from this great reddit post)

    I have come up the following abbreviations to denote these functions in English, using Quest instead of Asking: Qi is Introverted Questioning, Qe is Extraverted Questioning, Di is Introverted Declaring, and De is Extraverted Declaring. The basis of the hypothetical Q/D functions is that Talanov has observed that Super-Ego relations, particularly Rationals share certain properties that do not coincide with Logical/Ethical functions and are seen at a greater concentration than other neighboring types. For example, types LII and ESI share a certain error detection and doubting capacity in both logical and ethical matters that LSI and EII do not possess. The latter, on the other hand share a certain conservativism and mental rigidity or a lack of doubt and questioning or you could say certainty. Talanov posits that the Q/D functions are a secondary set of rational functions which tie together the middle section of Reinin Signs or Asking/Declaring, Process/Results, Aristocratic/Democratic, and Positivism/Negativism. Now there are several significant properties that Super-Ego types share, including Rings of Benefit, Supervision, Temperament, etc. They also share the seven Reinin Dichotomies that are structural in nature: The four middle Q/D dichotomy properties, as well as the Temperamental dichotomies (Asking/Declaring, Postivisit/Negativist, Process/Results, Aristocratic/Democratic, Rational/Irrational, Static/Dynamic, and Introversion/Extraversion.) Just like previously, Conflictors share the same excitation, inhibition, and balance properties, so we get the small group that includes Super-Ego, Conflict, and Mirrors. The Rational dyad will be Inert in their expression of the Q/D trait, while the Irrational Dyad will be Manipulative or balanced in their expression. Talanov notes that Irrationals will be less firmly representative of their preferred pole and may often appear like Declaratives when they are classified as Quests. Another notable Socionic researcher, Ivan Romanov, A.K.A Danadin, has made a lot of logical extensions of the Talanov model. He posits that if you take a Ring of Supervision, the rational types will be the strongest in the area of Q/D, while the irrational types will be the weakest, sort of like a secondary vulnerable function. This gives the rational type an advantage over both the type they supervise and the one that supervises them. In fact, Talanov thinks that the Q/D function may rival or even surpass the basic Jungian functions, which would lead to 32 types, as there may be a Qi dominant form of an LII and all other variations of this theme, as opposed to a Ti dominant. To avoid confusion, it should be noted that not all Extraverted Quests are Qe types. It is more dependent on the Rational/Irrational divide than Asking/Declaring. ILE and SEE are Qi Manipulatives rather than Qe dominants. Qe dominants or users of Inert Qe are the rational types of EIE and LSE.

    Now for blocking, Democratic types will have Qi and De, while Aristocratic types will have Qe and Di. Positivists will be Inert Declaratives and Manipulative Quests, Negativist will be Inert Quests and Manipulative Declaratives. Process types will be Extraverted Quests and Introverted Declaratives and Results types will be Introverted Quests and Extraverted Declaratives, but this refers to type and not the Quest/Declaring functions. The Quest/Declaring functions are distributed thus for each type: Qi is Inert for LII and ESI, Manipulative in ILE and SEE, weakest in SLE and IEE. Qe is Inert for EIE and LSE, Manipulative in IEI and SLI, weakest in ILI and SEI. De is Inert for ESE and LIE, Manipulative in SEI and ILI, weakest in IEI and SLI. Di is Inert for LSI and EII, Manipulative in SLE and IEE, weakest in ILE and SEE.

    So, the four quests-declarative functions are, in comparison with most other functions of the psyche, much more dependent on the structural right-left and anterior-posterior asymmetry of the brain. The left anterior cortex is more connected with De (as is known, it is also associated with SI, so De and Si can be partially correlated). The left posterior (temporal) cortex is connected mainly with the Di. The right anterior cortex is connected to the Qi, the right posterior to the Qe. The cortex of the left hemisphere is associated only with declarative functions (the main feature of which is the weakness of error detection, self-confidence, lack of self-criticism, uncriticality of orders, orientation to the opinion and position of the majority, inertia of motor, speech and thought programs). The cortex of the right hemisphere is associated only with questioning functions (the main common features of which are the intensive detection of errors.

    Questioning functions of the right hemisphere have an advantage in the stage of assessing the situation and choosing an adequate solution, Declaring functions of the left hemisphere - at the subsequent stage of implementation of decisions. Right hemispheric questioning functions provide a solution to heuristic tasks, left hemispheric declarative functions are more useful at the stage of skill consolidation. Both these and other functions are rational, estimating. Firstly, because they are provided with reason (as well as logical and ethical functions, but unlike intuitive-sensory functions, in the provision and distinction of which an important role is played by subcortical structures, especially the thalamus and striatum). Secondly, because the quasi-declarative functions are connected with the evaluation of information. Thirdly, because all 16 TIMs have a shadow following rational logical and ethical functions.

    Qi: So, the main features of white questioning (Qi) are: self-doubt and a tendency to frequent doubts and hesitations in their assessments and when choosing a solution; excessive self-criticism, lack of self-confidence and assertiveness; fear of darkness (as well as other information deprivation, limiting the possibility of obtaining the proper information for the operation of the error detector); avoidance of eye contact with other people (again, this is a consequence of self-doubt and excessive self-directed criticism); avoidance of risky situations; an emphatically painful attitude towards any injustice (a consequence of the hyperactivation of the front "social" zones of the right frontal cortex). Finally, it is individualism, that is, rejection from the hierarchy, from the indivisible by the individual and perceived critically, but imposed from the outside and mandatory collective activities and values (this feature is typical for extraversion, but for Qi the importance of a constant sense of its independence "from someone else's stupidity" is the most typical). For Qi, too, high demands on oneself, high intrapunity, responsibility, perfectionism (that is, introverted rational traits), as well as decreased egoism-the tendency to identify common interests (world, human, group) with one's own (but only on the condition of personal and voluntary acceptance of them). The latter also indicates an increased activation of the anterior zones of the right cortex, mainly responsible for moral and social values (which is exactly what makes two psychotypes with reinforced Qi, LII and ESI different in most other relations). On the other hand, the rear, temporal zones of the right cortex remain underactivated in the Qi - this is evidenced by the lack of character for Qi of the malignant explosive reactions common for increased activation of the right temporal cortex, and the obvious shortage of simple animal instincts and drives in the carriers of the Qi (especially in intuitive LII) is the work of the hypothalamus, along with the temporal cortex, is evidently depressed. Small activation of the temporal cortex (including the auditory cortex) is indicated by the predominance of the visual channel over the auditory channel as the main source of information. At the same time, the amygdala remains, apparently, active above the average level - this is indicated by the strong emotional memory characteristic of Qi.

    Qe: The main features of Qe (of black questioning, reveals the following: a propensity for critical disagreement and denial, impatient opposition to someone else's opinion, irritability, explosiveness, rancor.) The visual analyzer (in itself more right-hemisphere in its mechanisms) predominates over the auditory (but to a lesser extent than for the Qi), and for the visual and auditory analyzers there are clear indications of the dominance of their right hemisphere divisions. the location to explosiveness with outbursts of anger indicates a special hyperactivation of the right temporal and hippocampal cortex, that is, the posterior parts of the cortex of the right hemisphere.The fact is that explosivity is a common thing for right-sided temporal epilepsy (see in references: Madoran), being generated at the same time, as in the case of simply a strong Qe, by the irradiation of excitation from the right temporal cortex to the right-sided nuclei of the hypothalamus. Strong aversion reactions suggest, presumably, an increased activation of the insular cortex on the right (also being a particularly buried part of the temporal cortex), and increased rancidity indicates, in addition, increased activity of amygdala.

    Thus, the amygdala is actively involved in the work of both white and black quests, however, increased activation of the right temporal and insular cortex (posterior parts of the neocortex) is characteristic only of black, extraverted quests. For both quest functions, a pronounced right hemispheric asymmetry (probably significantly more contrast than, for example, for the balance of ethical and logical functions) is characteristic. In this case, the Qi differs from the Qe in the anterior-posterior asymmetry of the cortex involved in their mechanisms: the operation of the Qi is provided mainly by the anterior sections of the cortex of the right hemisphere, while the operation of the Qe is by the posterior, temporal sections of the cortex.

    Di:The main features of white declamation (Di) are: conservatism (caused, almost certainly, by the fact that it is difficult for a Di subject to weigh and evaluate everything new); mental stiffness (viscosity) - in particular, any movement should be completed, and the phrase must be finished before the end; resistance to monotonous activity; uncritical credulity to any information dictated to him; negative attitude to the multicolor and any multivariance of the choice of almost equal alternatives (for in such conditions it is very difficult to choose it); positively pedantic attitude to discipline and subordination (apparently, as a means, simplifying the life of a "viscous" subject); the need for paternalistic-authoritarian models of social structure (where it is easier to reach heights, being, in view of its uncriticality and viscosity, only uncritical, uncomplaining and thoughtless executor of other people's orders). Finally, Di is characterized by a weakening of self-criticism (this is a common feature of all Declaratives, and Di, and De). In addition, due to the weakening of the right-brain "the error detector" and in connection with his intellectual stiffness, he is annoyed both by novelty and in general by any complicated forms of life manifestations. Therefore, he strives for simplification, for the lowering of the surrounding life to a few "preserved" and more standardized manifestations (more can strengthen his authoritarian sympathies). The aphorism "Ignorance is a passion, not a lack of knowledge" directly refers to the widespread social manifestations of Di. For all sincere supporters of conservative ideology (from Nicholas I to Dostoevsky) their Di was obviously above the average (and Dostoevsky had an above average Di). Characteristic for OBD or Organic Brain Disorder properties in their complex are very often found in patients with left-sided temporal epilepsy (see links: Madoran), which means that the OBD is characterized by a predominant hyperactivation of the posterior left-sided cerebral cortex (especially the temporal and hippocampal cortex), whence descending influences stimulate the left-sided nuclei of the hypothalamus. On the hyperactivation of the left temporal zone indicates the active use of the auditory analyzer, which in the most contrast form is found in the owners of a strong Di.

    De: The main features of black declarative (De) are: hypertension; optimism and a penchant for fun and laughter; circumlocution; resistance to prolonged monotonous intensive loads (such as marathon run); tolerance and indecision; gullibility and disposition towards people, aspiration for rapprochement with them on a short distance; suggestibility; quickness and benevolent indecisiveness; self-confidence and arrogance (up to the gait "belly forward"); often - impulsive to the possible consequences of impulsive actions, which leads to risky actions; stake in any activity on the "thick", that is, on the quantity, rather than on the perfectionist pickiness to quality; increased "affirmative" speech style (what is usually understood by declamation in its narrow sense); certainty; alienation to any "eternal" problems and issues. The position of black declamation: the world is simple and beautiful, there is nothing to complicate it. Adherence to a strict story sequence makes re De owners relative with Di owners, but, unlike Di, De subjects do not find features of mental "viscosity" in their behavior, and any manifestations of the surrounding life are easily accepted - because of their energy, good nature , self-confidence and openness. They do not try to uproot the complexities of life, in contrast with the white declaratives, but they simply ignore them, not really delving into them. But at the same time, they, as well as the subjects of the DI are not critical and easily "zombied" with the imposed information. For De, as for the Di, the left hemisphere dominance is characteristic, but it affects mainly only the front, frontal cortex, while the temporal departments remain underactivated. The latter is evidenced by the absence of epileptoid manifestations typical for hyperactivation of the temporal cortex, and considerable indifference to the auditory channel of information-in fact, De subjects prefer to speak (hyperactivation of the left anterior speech zones) rather than listen (underactivation of the temporal zones).

    Positivism also refers to Declarativeness, as tactics relate to intuition and how constructivism refers to ethics. Constructivists are inert ethics, and therefore constructivism is poorly positively correlated with ethics, reflecting its inert features in its content. Similarly, tactics are weakly correlated with intuition and also reflect its inert features. For the same reason, positivism is moderately correlated with declarativeness and reflects the features of inert, that is, programmatic, rational declaring. Declaring properties that are coupled with the weakened work of the error detector (and, conversely, with the indestructible and not stopped by any doubts and reflections once running performance programs), can manifest themselves in an inert and manipulative version. In an inert form, it looks like a constant optimism, the habit of ignoring all anxiety and doubt. Therefore, a correlation overlap between the properties of positivism and declaring really takes place. However, nevertheless, negativism-positivism acts as a formative feature of a trait, but quest-declaring and it’s contents affect such a property as pessimism-optimism, but goes far beyond it. The “core” of questability-declarabilty in the right, quaternary hemisphere are the mechanisms that ensure the operation of the error detector and a steady concentration of attention, which makes it possible to carefully heuristically analyze the object or situation, and optimistic striving for the goal, undoubtedness and indisputability of decisions already taken.

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