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    Default Alpha quadra description socioniks.net

    The first quadra (Alpha) - types, values, mission of quadra in socionics

    Quadra representatives: types Seeker (ILE), Analyst (LII), Enthusiast (ESE) and Mediator (SEI).

    The family-type economy is organically suitable for the Alpha Quadra. With such an organization of work, all family members work according to their strengths and abilities. Nobody gets overworked, but at the same time, they don't take time off. Produced and stocked approximately as much as the family can consume. This type of economy is fully adapted to the surrounding natural landscape.

    Socio-economic aspect. The first quadra (Alpha) - values, the mission of the quadra. Humanitarian socionics

    This quadra does not exist in power. Of course, some of its representatives sometimes find themselves in central leadership positions. Yes, they turn out to be talis, but only as an exception that confirms the rule. Alpha types have neither the power nor the financial leverage to effectively lead organized groups.

    State institutions in alpha society are not developed, the authority of the elders prevails. There are no managerial sociotypes in this quadra, endowed with logic and sensing. Therefore, state power is exercised by aliens, or anarchy reigns, but not in the sense of "robber freemen", but as a situational leadership of the one who at the moment will be able to interest, captivate, demonstrate knowledge.

    There is no need for the state as an apparatus of coercion, since there is no serious aggressiveness, lust for power, an excess of a product that could be appropriated by force. This democratic quadra reacts very hard to punishment, coercion, the dictates of old traditions or a formally introduced law. The alpha type, limited by such a framework, psychologically dies in the same way as an aborigine who is accustomed to living in unity with nature dies, who was placed in a city apartment.

    Such a society can theoretically exist indefinitely, but perishes as a result of natural disasters or contacts with more aggressive neighbors. It is possible only in a very protected periphery, a special parallel world, which, knowing about the existence of the civilized world and even in contact with it, nevertheless remains outside its direct influence.

    Spiritual and psychological aspect. The first quadra (Alpha) - values, the mission of the quadra. Humanitarian socionics

    Values ​​of the First Quadra types: Family and cognitive

    The types of quadra Alpha have an orientation towards others - their own small group. In other words, they are characterized by moderate individualism. On the one hand, it manifests itself like a child's egocentrism - the inability to look at the situation from the point of view of another, stranger. On the other hand, the strong dependence of this quadra on its immediate environment does not allow Alpha types to turn into anti-collectivists.

    In a society for which manifestations of hostility and hatred have become typical, the family remains practically the only source of kindness and love, and mutual respect. The most family types in socion are Mediator (SEI) and Enthusiast (ESE). The types most in need of individual care within the family are the Analyst (LII) and the Seeker (ILE).

    Being the most open and trusting to new information, the types of the Alpha Quadra, like a moth to the fire, fly towards their destruction.

    Socion in Humanitarian Socionics

    Alpha Quadral Scientists' cognition is of the purest and most innocuous form, based primarily on sheer curiosity. It never turns into a dogma or a powerful creed, recruiting fanatical adepts to its side, like in the Beta quadra, and is not set in motion by means of material interest, direct monetary gain (applied science), like in the Gamma quadra.

    Alpha cognition does not require special tools and research laboratories stuffed with expensive equipment. This quadra learns the fundamental laws, coming into contact with the studied matter in the course of ordinary life. Therefore, the laws discovered by her do not have the character of rigid dependencies. These are just empirical generalizations of frequently recurring events. However, without such a work of reason, mature specialized science would not be possible.

    Any quadra contains not only the forward movement potential, but also the self-destruction mechanism. Quadru Alpha eventually ruins her curiosity. Being the most open and trusting to new information, alpha types fly like a moth to fire towards their death. Penetration into it of any perfect tools or techniques that sharply increase labor productivity, awakens the instincts of power and possession. And from this one step to class stratification and the emergence of regular power, that is, the beta order.

    People united by alpha values ​​approach the model of harmonious (in the sense of L. Gumilyov) individuals, that is, hardworking enough to provide themselves and their offspring with everything they need, but not sophisticated and competitive enough to create the surplus product necessary for expansion.

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    "family" makes me think of Fi values, close-knit relationships, so more delta than alpha.

    if you have a "Godfather" type of situation with a family with a high degree of internal trust, contrasted to the broader society, family can even be a Gamma concept.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHimTheAnomaly View Post
    "family" makes me think of Fi values, close-knit relationships, so more delta than alpha.

    if you have a "Godfather" type of situation with a family with a high degree of internal trust, contrasted to the broader society, family can even be a Gamma concept.
    Wrong. in the social sphere, Fi is about the relationship between two people. Fe is the domain of group relationships.

    And as to the Godfather: all of that is Beta all the way, there is nothing Gamma about mafia relationships. With organized crime, the sociological essence is that people conform to clearly established group rules (Ti), which are enforced, among other things, by emotional strategies embodied by Fe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Wrong. in the social sphere, Fi is about the relationship between two people. Fe is the domain of group relationships.

    And as to the Godfather: all of that is Beta all the way, there is nothing Gamma about mafia relationships. With organized crime, the sociological essence is that people conform to clearly established group rules (Ti), which are enforced, among other things, by emotional strategies embodied by Fe.
    there isn't any such thing as a pure Fi or pure Fe situation, so the question is, which of the two has a stronger influence.

    naturally, the smaller a "group" is, the greater the influence of Fi. and as far as societal groups go, families are at the bottom rung in terms of size. you'd have to go to the level of individuals to go smaller, but between two individuals you can logically not have a "quadra".

    I recommend you watch the Godfather movies another time and focus (this time, because apparently you missed the frickin elephant in the room the last few times) on the importance of interpersonal relations between the characters. it couldn't be farther removed from a Beta type of power dynamic where individuals get sacrifced like pawns in service of a cause.
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    It's by far hardest for me to imagine gamma - from all quadras - as some type of stereotypical 'close-knit' family. Not like those can't exist, tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHimTheAnomaly View Post
    there isn't any such thing as a pure Fi or pure Fe situation, so the question is, which of the two has a stronger influence.

    naturally, the smaller a "group" is, the greater the influence of Fi. and as far as societal groups go, families are at the bottom rung in terms of size. you'd have to go to the level of individuals to go smaller, but between two individuals you can logically not have a "quadra".

    I recommend you watch the Godfather movies another time and focus (this time, because apparently you missed the frickin elephant in the room the last few times) on the importance of interpersonal relations between the characters. it couldn't be farther removed from a Beta type of power dynamic where individuals get sacrifced like pawns in service of a cause.
    Nonsense. I am nothing less than an expert on the institutional aspects of the rational information elements. Period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHimTheAnomaly View Post
    there isn't any such thing as a pure Fi or pure Fe situation, so the question is, which of the two has a stronger influence.

    naturally, the smaller a "group" is, the greater the influence of Fi. and as far as societal groups go, families are at the bottom rung in terms of size. you'd have to go to the level of individuals to go smaller, but between two individuals you can logically not have a "quadra".

    I recommend you watch the Godfather movies another time and focus (this time, because apparently you missed the frickin elephant in the room the last few times) on the importance of interpersonal relations between the characters. it couldn't be farther removed from a Beta type of power dynamic where individuals get sacrifced like pawns in service of a cause.

    I think you miss the preference for individualization, decentralization, spreading-power-around-so-no-dictators of gammas. There is Se and there is Ni, but it's not really collectively minded as to bond everyone in a structure. In fact, gamma is famous for breaking down beta structures and 'rules' they manage to establish (given enough dedication and force).

    Signs of all elements can be found probably in about any film, usually this is something influenced by director/writer. Heck, central scenes and facts can be nevertheless interpreted from many differing standpoints - a good film is a film that reaches a wide audience and multiple people of multiple quadras find it somewhat relatable. That is, mafias /are/ usually beta, at least irl. There is nothing gamma about creating a mafia-like structure and observing its rules: gammas are the ones that are likely to break it down if they ever make a successful takeover.


    (that is, I think The Godfather borders beta and gamma, with mostly 'darker' shades of beta)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    It's by far hardest for me to imagine gamma - from all quadras - as some type of stereotypical 'close-knit' family. Not like those can't exist, tho.
    the point is that Gamma doesn't have much attraction to collectivist ideological values beyond those of the family. so their concern for other people tends to not extend further than family. as for the kind of Ayn Rand style hyper-caricature of an individualist that can only love a spouse by framing it in terms of self-interest... that may indeed be a gamma stereotype, but a rather uselessly abstract one that isn't found much in reality. you'll have more success convincing people that the typical Gamma does take on nationalist values from time to time, or evangelical ones on the other side of the spectrum.

    and to the extent you say that gamma is not about close-knit relations, you're contradicting the Fi definition that CA mentioned earlier. so choose between those two, don't pretend they're compatible.

    Signs of all elements can be found probably in about any film, usually this is something influenced by director/writer. Heck, central scenes and facts can be nevertheless interpreted from many differing standpoints - a good film is a film that reaches a wide audience and multiple people of multiple quadras find it somewhat relatable. That is, mafias /are/ usually beta, at least irl. There is nothing gamma about creating a mafia-like structure and observing its rules: gammas are the ones that are likely to break it down if they ever make a successful takeover.
    and again, I would recommend you to watch Godfather and similar movies another time and notice that the Se conflict between the arbitrary interests of a collection of family members on one hand and the rules of society on the other (defended and represented by non-corrupted members of politics and the police) is exactly what these kinds of movies are about. what gamma tears down is a perceived (possibly justified) stifling of individual freedom on the part of the political system. a relatable example of this is the prohibition, by today's standards a way too harsh enforcement of rules that were at odds with the true values of the people and practically impossible to maintain. here, Gamma found its positive role as a non-Ti-valuing quadra and realistic opportunity minded Ni valuing quadra, capable of bringing positive societal change by breaking the rules. but it does this by asserting its individual interests at the expense of established law.

    and its not like Gamma exclusively fights the Beta quadra; Gamma infighting (as depicted lavishly in Godfather) is more the rule than the exception, although the typical state between gamma in-groups (possibly families) is truce-like, with occasional bouts and checks of territorial control. to the extent the conflict is not inflicting permanent harm, this is experienced as legitimate, with both sides accepting the consequences in a philosophical Ni frame of mind.

    I strongly disagree with you that this is just something that accidentally made it into the movies as a result of watering down the primary message for a broader audience; it is fundamental to their major themes.
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    tell me this isn't the most Fi + Se thing that has been said in the history of American cinema
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    People united by alpha values ​​approach the model of harmonious (in the sense of L. Gumilyov) individuals, that is, hardworking enough to provide themselves and their offspring with everything they need, but not sophisticated and competitive enough to create the surplus product necessary for expansion.
    Yeah. I can work a lot but not for money as it usually hinders my productivity. Also the things I work for tend to be very quirky and experimental and not in interest of many. I'd rather die than try to have a success.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHimTheAnomaly View Post
    the point is that Gamma doesn't have much attraction to collectivist ideological values beyond those of the family. so their concern for other people tends to not extend further than family. as for the kind of Ayn Rand style hyper-caricature of an individualist that can only love a spouse by framing it in terms of self-interest... that may indeed be a gamma stereotype, but a rather uselessly abstract one that isn't found much in reality. you'll have more success convincing people that the typical Gamma does take on nationalist values from time to time, or evangelical ones on the other side of the spectrum.

    and to the extent you say that gamma is not about close-knit relations, you're contradicting the Fi definition that CA mentioned earlier. so choose between those two, don't pretend they're compatible.
    Key: stereotypical. I didn't even say it's not possible or that gammas can't for close-knits and those stereotypes are right. Imho the stereotypical close-knit family is either alpha or delta (and judicious), not really gamma. Gamma has families and relations, just not of that stereotype. I actually think that gamma socionists are lacking (one that is better-known is Strati and she has that Ne-PoLR) and too many points are given against gamma from alpha (Aushra, Gulenko...).

    (imo Rand is highly possibly not gamma - from what I know about her and her personal views - but that's another story; look at her thread or let's chat via shoutbox or something)


    and again, I would recommend you to watch Godfather and similar movies another time and notice that the Se conflict between the arbitrary interests of a collection of family members on one hand and the rules of society on the other (defended and represented by non-corrupted members of politics and the police) is exactly what these kinds of movies are about. what gamma tears down is a perceived (possibly justified) stifling of individual freedom on the part of the political system. a relatable example of this is the prohibition, by today's standards a way too harsh enforcement of rules that were at odds with the true values of the people and practically impossible to maintain. here, Gamma found its positive role as a non-Ti-valuing quadra and realistic opportunity minded Ni valuing quadra, capable of bringing positive societal change by breaking the rules. but it does this by asserting its individual interests at the expense of established law.

    and its not like Gamma exclusively fights the Beta quadra; Gamma infighting (as depicted lavishly in Godfather) is more the rule than the exception, although the typical state between gamma in-groups (possibly families) is truce-like, with occasional bouts and checks of territorial control. to the extent the conflict is not inflicting permanent harm, this is experienced as legitimate, with both sides accepting the consequences in a philosophical Ni frame of mind.

    I strongly disagree with you that this is just something that accidentally made it into the movies as a result of watering down the primary message for a broader audience; it is fundamental to their major themes.
    Perhaps. I had to say I watched The Godfather long ago, so I freely give points here and I feel slightly convinced so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHimTheAnomaly View Post


    tell me this isn't the most Fi + Se thing that has been said in the history of American cinema
    The meaning of the phrase is:
    to keep a keen eye on enemies beyond what one might have on their friends
    to be vigilant about the actions taken by enemies
    it's not a good idea to bother your enemies, be friendly with them but stay alertdon't hurt for your enemies by speech or behaviour to keep them calm and harmless
    Source: theidioms.com

    (Sadly, I couldn't find the orgin. If it's Sun Tzu, he is mostly typed beta ST, specifically SLE; if Niccolo Machiavelli - various typings excluding delta)


    It isn't. Pure ESIs don't 'keep their enemies closer'. This is not a 'set a trap' game or whatever (yes, in ESIs eyes this would be seen as such). There is no time for that play in gamma: Te types /need/ ethical boundaries set clearly, and those are not a subject of change (all Fi-ego types are static).

    It's a play of beta (ethical?) types that have enough intuition to envision this and are fine with playing tricky, a bit uncertain scenarios. Maybe LIEs before they get smacked by ESIs.

    The first and foremost 'game' of ESIs is their ethics. They push away those who don't fit the bill, nod in approval if they do and then do more pushing if they don't. ESI seeing someone not fitting the bill is not going for some complicated solution, they are going to be pretty 'simple': solve it either by distancing ('leave it alone, later') or confrontation: you did this and this wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strati
    The ESI readily notices lies, falsity, and hypocrisy, both in respect to himself and in respect to others. With his characteristic of perfectionism, which reflects his firm ethical stances, the ISFj prefers to maintain relations only with those who completely correspond to his personal criteria. Even if this creates an impression that he places very high demands on people in his environment, the ESI is not capable of lowering them, regardless of who asks him for it.
    To manipulate people in such way would be insulting to vast majority of ESIs. To pretend you like them so you get something (even just your own 'safety') is unthinkable. ESIs play clean cards. It balances the most pragmatic Te approaches. And Te doms respond to that.

    @Adam Strange as he really goes into studying that ESI brain (tho mind suggestive Fi is not the greatest here).

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post

    And as to the Godfather: all of that is Beta all the way, there is nothing Gamma about mafia relationships. With organized crime, the sociological essence is that people conform to clearly established group rules (Ti), which are enforced, among other things, by emotional strategies embodied by Fe.
    That's funny u mention that.

    I was tellin my SEE friend whenever he has kids, that I wanted to be the Godfather lol

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    The meaning of the phrase is:

    to keep a keen eye on enemies beyond what one might have on their friends
    to be vigilant about the actions taken by enemies
    it's not a good idea to bother your enemies, be friendly with them but stay alertdon't hurt for your enemies by speech or behaviour to keep them calm and harmless
    Source: theidioms.com
    I suspect this is a Ti type attempting to understand the statement and not really hitting the mark. in any event whoever wrote it is not a supreme arbiter on the matter.

    my interpretation of the statement is simpler and less presumtive: it just means to say that an enemy is someone with great deal of influence on your well-being, so to manage your relationship with them (and not deny you have such a relationship) is paramount, more so even than with friends.

    The first and foremost 'game' of ESIs is their ethics. They push away those who don't fit the bill, nod in approval if they do and then do more pushing if they don't. ESI seeing someone not fitting the bill is not going for some complicated solution, they are going to be pretty 'simple': solve it either by distancing ('leave it alone, later') or confrontation: you did this and this wrong.
    here I disagree with you on a fundamental socionical level. the whole reason why a socionical function like the ESI's base Fi is strong is because it can deal with very fine nuances that the weaker variants of the function found in other types would not able able pick up on, let alone handle with the required level of care. the "simple" approach is something any LSI could do, any LIE even. that's not what you need to be a master Fi user for.

    It is exactly the balancing of the relationship statuses of "being enemies" and "having intimate impact on each others' wellbeing" that only base Fi types have patience for. hence why that Godfather quote was a lesson in Fi. did it come from an ISFj? who knows. maybe it was passed down through generations. but it's theme is Fi.

    It is the kind of thing that made Jesus (INFj) turn the other cheek to his offenders, knowing that he would influence them more strongly that way than through violence. again, not a "simple" approach. flying off the handle and crushing the other guy's skull is ethically simple. taking a risk with an unexpected kind gesture is Fi complexity on a genius' level (although this time in the context of Ne and Se PoLR)

    To manipulate people in such way would be insulting to vast majority of ESIs. To pretend you like them so you get something (even just your own 'safety') is unthinkable. ESIs play clean cards. It balances the most pragmatic Te approaches. And Te doms respond to that.
    maybe, but when it comes to Godfather we're not just talking about the ESI type. ESI has a lot of types on its side willing to do the dirty work for it. I defy you to claim ILI and LIE, or even SEE retrict themselves to playing the clean card game.
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    What I gathered from Gulenko's book he says that normalizing subs are family oriented, dominant too busy, creatives do not care and harmonizing too lazy.
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