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Thread: According to socionics theory, aren't females supposed to have way less affective empathy than males?

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    Default According to socionics theory, aren't females supposed to have way less affective empathy than males?

    Females make up the vast majority of Fi-PoLR types (even if you haven't observed that the vast majority of SLE-Ti and ILE-Ti are females, it's common knowledge that females are much less likely to be the first in a relationship to say i love you, they're much less quick to fall in love than males and they also are much more likely to initiate divorce) and because the vast majority of IEE are males and close to 50% of EII are females.

    The only part where it's kind of tricky is with the ESI and especially subtypes (the majority of Fi subtype is male, the majority of Se subtype is female, but Fi subtype males are much less altruistic and people-oriented and more restrictive and meaner on average than Se subtype males, for the Se subtype that's reversed at least for the altruism/inability to say no parts although Fi subtype females are still angrier and less considerate of people when they don't want to hear complaining, yelling, and negative comments than Se subtype females although they're more sensitive to when other people tease, joke on someone, tell the blunt truth, etc.; another thing is, is that the Fi subtype males, even though they're meaner, tends to also feel more guilt and sorrow for someone else but they also take much less action to help someone, Se subtype males don't need to feel extremely sorry for someone to help them, just like how Beta STs frequently go out of their way to help people, while not having much affective empathy; Fi subtype males are some of the least willing of all the types to give money, to violate authoritarian regulations to help someone, to give emotional support, to allow someone the right to do something, to change their principles for someone, to not frequently bitch, all while they often support tax-funded welfare for security and because they can't bring themselves to give their own money).

    So what's the deal with the common stereotype of females are more affective empaths than males? It's kind of like how it's commonly said males' sports teams should be separate from females just because males of the same are stronger, but there's a lot overlap (it's not more than 67/33) yet females have better coordination and are more aware of their surroundings (which also has to do with the old myth that males are more street smart than females, when it's the opposite--females know how to survive better in dangerous and scarce resource conditions than males and that would also be predicted by socionics, especially when taking subtypes into account, most ESI-Fi and ILE-Ne are male while most of the opposite subtype is female and the opposite subtypes are more resourceful, better with weapons, more aware of what's going around them, makes better decisions and more quickly, so actually females are better with weapons, machines, and tools than males)

    Obviously, I'm heavily biased against my own subtype, generally biased against my own valued functions (I think Ti is more useful than Te, me attending to Si/asthetics/comfort/experiencing many good sensations all the time/never having bad sensations has always been at least as important for me than me showing my balls and I feel self-conscious about "protecting" people anyway, I don't like others' Fi although I don't like Fe either, and I favor Ti egos except LII over Te egos, it seems natural for Ijs favor Eps, which is one of a million reasons I don't look to socionics for intertype relations; however, I prefer women to be volitional as long as they're not infrining upon my rights), and the Delta quadra, to the point where i worry that I'll have a soul that will only be allowed near Deltas and Gammas subtyped towards Delta and/or being under the dictatorship of some EIE.

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    By types theory empathy relates to F and is more expressed at people with F types (as one of factors for this).
    Also there are stats about average for sexes types where more % (~60%) of women have F types and men - T types. These stats mb correct or just cultural influence.
    Nothing else.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    According to my observations, females are much more likely than males to be ILE-Ti and SLE-Ti and less than males likely to be EIE and especially IEE. ILE-Ti and SLE-Ti are among the most common types for females. EIE is one of the most common types among males, but it's also fairly common in females.

    I don't think the statistics are right (ESI and LSI seem pretty gender-balanced) and I have known very few ESE and SEI and most of the ESE I did know of were males. IEI aren't as common as EIE even though most IEI seem to be females.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    According to my observations, females are much more likely than males to be ILE-Ti and SLE-Ti and less than males likely to be EIE and especially IEE. ILE-Ti and SLE-Ti are among the most common types for females. EIE is one of the most common types among males, but it's also fairly common in females.

    I don't think the statistics are right (ESI and LSI seem pretty gender-balanced) and I have known very few ESE and SEI and most of the ESE I did know of were males. IEI aren't as common as EIE even though most IEI seem to be females.
    In contrast, the majority of ESE and SEI I know are females. and the female ILE and SLE's all ILE-Ne and SLE-Se
    I have encountered quite a few EIE males though.
    honestly, don't generalize based on the small sample of people you know

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    Idk man, most of the time a female says 'I love you' to me first, but I don't really base my relationships on strict gender norms like that or something. I also wouldn't waste my time on a woman that was clearly looking down on me and making me go through hoops. I also don't care if I'm 'gay', I'm straight enough to know better anyway put it that way. lol.

    I do see a lot of beta males that are getting 'chumped' in love but I think this sort of thing comes from overly idealizing women, it is a kind of reverse misogny- instead of seeing a complicated person with a mixture of good/bad flaws you see the beta male pov that 'women are these damsel in distress that need me to save them.' Even Britney Spears tries to tell Beta Males 'You must think that I'm sent from above, I'm not that innocent' lol

    Women are often wiser to know love is a rare special gift you shouldn't give it away too easily. 'I love you' should be meaningful and special. And it is special between two people, nothing to do with 'society' but a "Beta Male" is often focusing too much on the society thing.

    Females have less empathy than males period, but better compassion ime. Of course some females are just pure narcissistic sadistic bitches just like some males are pure hateful assholes with no heart whatsoever. Not really a gender thing. This isn't exactly news at 11, but just putting it out there for our general humanitarian ness or something I guess.

    If somebody doesn't like you (male or female) they will have a dark, twisted kind of cognitive-only empathy with you, where they will kind of one-sidedly absorb certain 'dark' or negative qualities in your psyche logically (in order to best try to trap you with), but never relate to you in an affective way. This isn't really a gender thing to me tho I mean you see a lot of people do it... maybe it's a Gamma Quadra thing to me in a sense, or Se in general? Gammas can be brutally cold and harsh this way at times, but they do have SEE/some ESIs softening them up at times lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Females have less empathy than males period, but better compassion ime
    Bullshit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    Bullshit.
    actually, i have the same experience in that regard as BandD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    Females make up the vast majority of Fi-PoLR types
    I have seen no such thing. I've actually observed a shortage of ILE females. SLEs are fairly balanced between male and female.
    I actually expect ILEs are balanced too and I just haven't met as many ILE females. Such claims are based on personal experience, and some types are more common in some people's lives than others'.


    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    it's common knowledge that females are much less likely to be the first in a relationship to say I love you, they're much less quick to fall in love than males and they also are much more likely to initiate divorce
    That isn't common knowledge. I would agree that from my observation, men fall in love much more quickly than women. But that could be biased since I'm an ST woman and NFs fall in love more quickly than STs.

    Saying females are much more likely to initiate divorce is something we have statistics for.
    "According to a 2015 study, women initiate 69% of all divorces. ... A 2015 study by the American Sociological Association found that women initiate two-thirds of all divorces, a staggering 69% to be exact. College-educated women initiate divorce at an even higher rate: 90%."
    But I don't see how that's related.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    the old myth that males are more street smart than females
    That's probably because street living is more dangerous for females.

    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Women are often wiser to know love is a rare special gift you shouldn't give it away too easily. 'I love you' should be meaningful and special.
    Yes. Perhaps women recognize this more clearly because relationships for them have greater risk (for greater reward). A bad relationship can hurt a woman in more ways and in more lasting ways than it can hurt a man.

    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Females have less empathy than males period, but better compassion ime.
    Interesting suggestion.

    I don't think we can definitively say whether males or females have more empathy. Each of us is one of the two and will recognize one's own empathy more than others'. Perhaps there are tests that can be done to figure out empathy levels. But empathy manifests in different ways.

    For example, I don't do sympathy. And if you're physically hurting, I'm not going to empathize. But I loathe a certain form of TV show: the kind that has unnecessary awkward times, usually because of dishonesty. I loathe them because they make me feel awkward and ashamed, which is a manifestation of empathy.

    You suggest women have better compassion. As I said, interesting suggestion. But I haven't seen that. I've seen that feelers have better compassion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    actually, i have the same experience in that regard as BandD.
    Then hang out with more average ppl, or you'll start assuming sexist bullshit is true of four billion people you havent met and you might post your illogical extrapolations on the internet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirectorAbbie View Post
    I have seen no such thing. I've actually observed a shortage of ILE females. SLEs are fairly balanced between male and female.
    I actually expect ILEs are balanced too and I just haven't met as many ILE females. Such claims are based on personal experience, and some types are more common in some people's lives than others'.



    That isn't common knowledge. I would agree that from my observation, men fall in love much more quickly than women. But that could be biased since I'm an ST woman and NFs fall in love more quickly than STs.

    Saying females are much more likely to initiate divorce is something we have statistics for.
    "According to a 2015 study, women initiate 69% of all divorces. ... A 2015 study by the American Sociological Association found that women initiate two-thirds of all divorces, a staggering 69% to be exact. College-educated women initiate divorce at an even higher rate: 90%."
    But I don't see how that's related.


    That's probably because street living is more dangerous for females.


    Yes. Perhaps women recognize this more clearly because relationships for them have greater risk (for greater reward). A bad relationship can hurt a woman in more ways and in more lasting ways than it can hurt a man.


    Interesting suggestion.

    I don't think we can definitively say whether males or females have more empathy. Each of us is one of the two and will recognize one's own empathy more than others'. Perhaps there are tests that can be done to figure out empathy levels. But empathy manifests in different ways.

    For example, I don't do sympathy. And if you're physically hurting, I'm not going to empathize. But I loathe a certain form of TV show: the kind that has unnecessary awkward times, usually because of dishonesty. I loathe them because they make me feel awkward and ashamed, which is a manifestation of empathy.

    You suggest women have better compassion. As I said, interesting suggestion. But I haven't seen that. I've seen that feelers have better compassion.
    Women get more of their danger from known people, not as much of their danger from strangers
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    I have known less Fi-PoLR females in my life than males, and I think almost all of them (females) were SLE, not ILE. So I would with Abbie on this particular one.

    Alpha SFs I know are majority female. Beta NFs are either, same with beta STs. Sample on LIIs is fairly small, but there are females there. LIE females are rare and I don't know ESI males I think; SEE could be either, ILIs as well. I know more delta STs females than males, same with delta NFs.

    'Fast falling in love' I see more as N (and/or F), but imo not-that-much type-related.

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    @ OP

    Please stop looking at females, and please stop typing everybody xLE-Ti.

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    If one can vicariously experience the feelings, thoughts and experience of another, I would think that this could only be done at an emotional level which makes the word 'affective' redundant. Fi-types tend to be rather detached and objective so although they can understand the plight of others, being truly empathetic is rather unlikely. Now, Fe-types have the better tools for empathy if they get close enough and are able to interact but I doubt there's a distinction between male and female at a cognitive level. Traits related to sexual orientation should be separated from cognitive aspects to get a true picture of type influences.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 08-20-2020 at 03:18 PM.

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    Also, I know this can be a bit controversial, but I really don't think polr is even a thing. I think the weakest blind spot in a person is their suggestive, not their polr. The most unhealthy people I've seen tends to focus more on their role function instead. The polr is actually an incredibly wacky function where a person can be very good at it in certain spots, but bad at others. That's why there's SEI accountants, SLI actors, and EIE artists, etc. Generally speaking, xLEs have better Fi than LxEs, and they have Ti and Fe to back it up.

    I don't know how exactly are you typing people, but F types are generally slightly more common among females. I think F types may actually seem more T sometimes because their logic is normative, so they apply it in a more stereotypical sense. T types apply ethics in a stereotypical sense as well, so they might seem more value-oriented on the surface. Therefore, based on pure empiricism, a lot of ethical types might seem logical, since their feeling functions are outside the norm.

    Among men, EIEs are the 4.0 GPA eccentric weirdos with absurd opinions. However, EIEs are extremely common among women (especially asian women), and they all kind of look the same. They are common among celebrities too, like Lady gaga, Ava max, HyunA, etc. I think the ABG and the dragon lady stereotypes basically had the EIE female in mind. ILE-Tis are more common among white women and asian men, and I bet there really isn't a gender difference in distribution if you added up everyone in the world. I guess SLEs are also 50/50 between the genders based on personal experience. IEEs are also 50/50 but female IEEs are more IEE-like than their male counterparts.
    Note: this is based on my own personal experience and typings. I have absolutely no idea what the distributions are like around the globe, so this might not be accurate.

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    @Surreal, do you have any remarks on ILIs and SLIs from that perspective?

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    @Duschia
    ILIs of both subtypes are equally common among whites, while ILI-Nis are more common among asians by a wide margin. The Ni subtype aligns more closely with Carl Jung's original description of the Ni dominant type, while the Te subtype looks like a high achieving Silicon Valley techie.

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/conve...-gurleen-nanra > I know an ILI-Ni who talked like that. He told me about how he saw demons possessing his friends, and it was impossible to have a normal conversation with him. He even told me I was possessed by a demon.

    I think I've only known 1 ILI girl before, and she has Ni subtype. She sleeps like once in 3 days, and spends all her free time playing league and other games. At school, she is incredibly dizzy, and couldn't concentrate due to lack of sleep. Now that I think about it, I've also known an ILI guy who stays up until 2am everyday playing video games.

    SLIs are one of the most common types among white girls, and they're usually the Si subtype. I had a lot of SLI females friends in the past, and they are easy to get along with. I'm not attracted to, nor curious about SLI guys, so I generally don't notice them at all. Therefore, I'm not certain about the gender distribution.

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    @Surreal, I was more curious about the PoLR thing, how type manifests in men/women and maybe subtypes descs, not really gender/race distribution tbh.

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    @Duschia
    What do you mean? I'm not certain how that relates to ILI and SLI.

    Also, what type are you? I feel like you have this weird way of talking that's super confusing, and makes me feel uncomfortable LMAO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal View Post
    @Duschia
    What do you mean? I'm not certain how that relates to ILI and SLI.
    In specifically ILIs and SLIs. So I can infer how those differ.

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    @Duschia
    I don't think I have any more insights on these two types, at least not about PoLR, gender, and subtype descriptions at the moment.

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    I just read this Op and it gave me a massive headache. This is one of the things I absolutely detest at a foundational level in typology communities. Not every aspect of a person's life is dictated by type. There could be several reasons a person has low affective empathy - everything from psychological issues to environment and upbringing. What does this have to do with typology? And why be interested in typology if you're so riddled with cognitive biases to begin with?

    To get to your question: So what's the deal with the common stereotype of females are more affective empaths than males?

    How is anyone expected to answer such a loaded question?

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