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Thread: ILI - Playing Intellectual Games

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    Default ILI - Playing Intellectual Games

    I was just reading this page
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ion-(Filatova)
    Andddd...

    "Fe – Painful function.
    ...
    ILI often compensates for his lack of emotional involvement in interaction with others by playing intellectual games. Very often interaction for him becomes similar to a game of chess or checkers, where the goal is to show what he is capable of, and to demonstrate another person's incompetence. ILI is a master of games – he loves to play with people and events.


    He finds true enjoyment from realizing his intellectual superiority over others and will not let an opportunity pass where he can directly or indirectly express this. If his upbringing conflicts with such displays and expression, he will, nonetheless, satisfy his silent vanity by other methods.
    ..."

    What does this mean? I need IRL example. @Adam Strange I'm sure you have a story about this topic
    ILI - Te


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkBlue View Post
    I was just reading this page
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ion-(Filatova)
    Andddd...

    "Fe – Painful function.
    ...
    ILI often compensates for his lack of emotional involvement in interaction with others by playing intellectual games. Very often interaction for him becomes similar to a game of chess or checkers, where the goal is to show what he is capable of, and to demonstrate another person's incompetence. ILI is a master of games – he loves to play with people and events.


    He finds true enjoyment from realizing his intellectual superiority over others and will not let an opportunity pass where he can directly or indirectly express this. If his upbringing conflicts with such displays and expression, he will, nonetheless, satisfy his silent vanity by other methods.
    ..."

    What does this mean? I need IRL example. @Adam Strange I'm sure you have a story about this topic
    Placeholder for when I have more time. Yes, I think I have a few examples. If you don't see a reply by Sat evening, PM me to remind me. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkBlue View Post
    I was just reading this page
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ion-(Filatova)
    Andddd...

    "Fe – Painful function.
    ...
    ILI often compensates for his lack of emotional involvement in interaction with others by playing intellectual games. Very often interaction for him becomes similar to a game of chess or checkers, where the goal is to show what he is capable of, and to demonstrate another person's incompetence. ILI is a master of games – he loves to play with people and events.


    He finds true enjoyment from realizing his intellectual superiority over others and will not let an opportunity pass where he can directly or indirectly express this. If his upbringing conflicts with such displays and expression, he will, nonetheless, satisfy his silent vanity by other methods.
    ..."

    What does this mean? I need IRL example. @Adam Strange I'm sure you have a story about this topic
    I don't get enjoyment out of it, rather, frustration. I admit I play these games almost instinctually, but it ain't because I want to lord my "superior" IQ over others. Rather, it's me hoping and praying to God that they'll see how I'm attempting to play them and that they'll rebuke me for it or, even better, actually play my game and beat me in it. For a true and humble player of a game, nothing pleases them more than meeting a superior. Finally, a chance to learn and improve! Sadly, rare is the occasion this happens. There's a reason ILI's are stereotypically cynical, people just keep living down to our lowest expectations of them.

    Though I will concede that I do enjoy humiliating commies in my intellectual games quite heartily. They have it coming and, like Mel Brooks in regards to a certain German Dictator, the end goal isn't to make everyone hate them, it's to get everyone to perceive them and all they stand for as utterly ridiculous and worthy of a most hearty of laughs .

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    I don't know if I'd call my own habits games, but more of a situation where I simply give someone the chance to surprise me. Like saying a famous quote of something related to one of their interests to see if they even slightly pick up on it, or asking probing questions to gauge their knowledge or at the very least their passion. I'd say about 60% of the time it's just a 'miss' while 35% of the time my trail of breadcrumbs make me even more disappointed in them, sometimes abhorrently so, physical disgust. About 5%, possibly even less, it's a surprise and a breath of fresh air to see something completely novel that I wasn't expecting. Like the first time I played chess against someone who clearly hadn't studied the strategy much as they were making some pretty glaring mistakes in their structure, but you realize that regardless this person's mind is moving faster than your own. At first you thought it would be a simple game, and then the tone shifts where all the areas you thought you already knew now need to be revisited and that challenges can come in a different form than you were expecting. It's a kind of subjective experience that you wouldn't really be able to explain easily.

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    I'd say that they might also look for a fellowship here.

    LIE's are worse here with their arse kissing combined. Initial flattering.
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    hmm dunno, initially during interaction I can be friendly, casual and very easy to approach. If the social interaction drags on and there are many ppl I personally don't know.. gradually I'll lose energy and begin to shut down. At some point someone is bound to ask if I'm angry or sad or something, but the reality is I no longer have enough social energy to keep up the facade and I default to "resting ass face" and will gradually start feeling more and more like I need to be alone & recharge.

    During interaction I read ppl's body language and infer their intentions, as well as assess what kind of person they are. Despite being friendly and open, I don't enjoy the super lively "lets include everyone and we must have fun!" -kind of activity and its fairly easy for me to read most ppl (outside of autists). They don't really have to express themselves.

    I don't think I play intellectual games or anything like that. I can be very engaging if its a topic I'm very familiar with, but other than that idk. Well as long as I have reserves for socializing.

    Last edited by SGF; 08-01-2020 at 04:39 PM.

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    Thanks for all answers. I guess, this is more likely dominant subtype thing. And @Adam Strange , still waiting for your reply. Hope you can find time, thank you
    ILI - Te


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    Meh.. kinda games are only fun if someone understands the rules and explaining it kinda ruins it.

    Also, Fe is the enemy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    Meh.. kinda games are only fun if someone understands the rules and explaining it kinda ruins it.

    Also, Fe is the enemy
    I couldn't agree more
    ILI - Te


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    My ILI friend and former collegue used to do this with an EIE at work ( we worked in IT). They both had experience and were very smart, but the ILI had more experience and was probably a bit smarter IQ wise (though not 100 percent sure about the latter, they might have been about equal).

    Anyways, he would like to find IT solutions where the EIE couldn't find them. Once we had a bunch of hard drives to clone and the EIE had set up a script in the original clone which would allow some tech issues to be tweaked but was clunky and impratical, I have to admit; the ILI suggested creating a .bat file (which would execute the same processes as the script the EIE had set up), and save the file on a usb stick, then use the .bat file from the usb stick to correct the issues which we were having, and remove the script from the clones. The EIE wasn't around but I was; he called the EIE an "amateur" even though the EIE earns money from what he does...the ILI loved finding solutions to problems others couldn't, especially the EIE since they both had a good level of expertise in the field and the my friend does like a challenge.


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    ILI often shows emotional involvement but there's something slightly "eccentic" and "weak" about it.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

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    ILI often compensates for his lack of emotional involvement in interaction with others by playing intellectual games. Very often interaction for him becomes similar to a game of chess or checkers, where the goal is to show what he is capable of, and to demonstrate another person's incompetence. ILI is a master of games – he loves to play with people and events.
    I'm not sure about "lack of emotional involvement", more like "spite". If someone wants to take credit for an idea of mine, I let them execute it. Meanwhile, I spend a few minutes to have it ready to be executed, and I just work on something else. Meanwhile, I'm waiting on that someone to either fail or succeed. If they succeed, no harm, no foul. If they fail, I wait until the ones needing the task done to ask me to do it. At that point, I execute it, and it's done. By then, everyone involved knows it was my idea, and I was the one who executed the idea because I knew what I was doing and not wasting anyone's time by "acting" and trying to impress people. So the next time, they just come to me instead of having a meeting, and I don't have to deal with the drama.

    He finds true enjoyment from realizing his intellectual superiority over others and will not let an opportunity pass where he can directly or indirectly express this. If his upbringing conflicts with such displays and expression, he will, nonetheless, satisfy his silent vanity by other methods.
    ..."
    There's no enjoyment of intellectual superiority over others. It's actually the opposite. Here's another example: a former "best in the world" RTS gamer for a game starts to playtest a game we've been playtesting for 9 months. There were 4 of us, and I was the person with no notoriety in the RTS community at the time, but I ended up winning every game. I wanted to make the game as balanced as possible, so I spent a lot of time testing on my own, and trying things out with my team. I didn't care if I lost, but to prove an "imbalance", we'd have to play to win, then switch testers and try the "imbalance" again. Anyways, the new playtester played against the other three team members, and beat them. At lunch, our playtesting manager boasted that this playtester played the game a few days and could beat us in a game we've been playtesting for 9 months. That irked me very much. I said, "We're not trying to win to boast our ego's, but to balance the game. He's playing the 2nd most overpowered nation in the game. If he played me, he'd lose." So, they had him challenge me, and to up the ante, I said I'd only play to win if we played for $50. I beat him the first game. He then challenged me to a rematch, double or nothing. Instead of just beating him, I humiliated him. When I won again, he typed, "******". He paid me $100, and everyone was quiet for the rest of the week.

    It's not about intellectual superiority over others, but in taking someone down a notch who thinks they are intellectually superior over others. There's a difference.

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    The article is more likely to be a bad translation. ILIs can get really emotionally involved (some often become fiery) so I certainly don't agree with them lacking in this area, but it's more due to their defensive natures (when defending their own values, output and or image). Many ILIs seem to play devil's advocate or silly bugger but again it's usually a defence mechanism. I'm quite sure that some do like to strut or are very vain, but no more than other types who may feel that they have intellectual superiority or higher productivity.

    I posted the following ILI description on my first day on this site:

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ription-by-I-O

    a.k.a. I/O

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    It means I'm likely to spout something random when bored to peak others interest as a joke. I was actually gonna do it, but I'll answer straight today.

    ILIs might get emotionally involved, but I don't. It's a hard rule that if I do get emotional, I either stop and wait, or I try and not let it affect me, aware that it will.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7quids View Post
    most social interaction are a game tho. maybe not an intellectual game but people like to play eachother, in good nature or bad. its probably just a bad translation
    Would you elaborate on this?

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    Ah, people who absorb the matter-energy divide of electric to seismic forces grappled and contained by the mind power of a JarJar Binks calculator!!

    Nerds, freaks, eccentrics, mad scientists, perhaps we can find all of that here in this type. The spirit of being curious and entailing mysticism to the highest enlightenment proceeds from this all revamped elevator of indomitable intellect from on the alpha of dinosaur intelligence.
    https://sabrinacasey.webstarts.com/9systemswishes
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    Something has arrived that threatens to throw everything terribly out of balance. When it comes, will you accept your destiny? And when it’s your chance to be a hero, will you rise to the challenge? This year, discover how 1 person can make all the difference! Pokemon 2000 Japan Mongolia 14-0 93rd

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    Hello INTprocrastinator! I think the games just gave people emotions that is hard to feel in the real world. It doesn't matter that game you are playing chess/cards or some modern video games like Dark Souls and GTA. All types of games involve the emotional aspect, more or less. Personally, I like playing some simple card games or renovated old card games like free jigsaw puzzles on different online platforms/applications, so I think choosing the game that you like is a kinda personal thing.
    Last edited by MaryWenzelp; 02-04-2022 at 01:41 PM.

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    This game feel stupid.

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    It's normal people use what they can/good at to approach things.

    I've fallen prey to IEE's morality preach many times throughout my life Believing in a cause and then finding out the facts are far less black and white than what the IEEs claim. I don't think IEEs are intentionally scamming people --- it's just a natural thing to do with their strong F and weak T. Similarly ILIs seem to "play intellectual games" because they have strong T and weak F, not aware of nuanced ethical consequences of certain actions.

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    I've seen ILIs quiz people with random facts, or ask something in a sphinx-like way. If someone doesn't play their game or they prove themselves to be "too stupid" for their games, ILI may be too harsh and mocking. I think this isn't for all ILIs though.

    It's just their way of interacting with people I think. I always thought it had to do with creative Te.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTprocrastinator View Post
    I was just reading this page
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ion-(Filatova)
    Andddd...

    "Fe – Painful function.
    ...
    ILI often compensates for his lack of emotional involvement in interaction with others by playing intellectual games. Very often interaction for him becomes similar to a game of chess or checkers, where the goal is to show what he is capable of, and to demonstrate another person's incompetence. ILI is a master of games – he loves to play with people and events.


    He finds true enjoyment from realizing his intellectual superiority over others and will not let an opportunity pass where he can directly or indirectly express this. If his upbringing conflicts with such displays and expression, he will, nonetheless, satisfy his silent vanity by other methods.
    ..."
    The description of the demonstrative function on the sociotype website supports this.

    Id
    A person uses this element mainly as a kind of game, or to ridicule those who he thinks take it too seriously. They often intentionally go against its conventional usage simply to prove a point in favor of their creative function. However, this function is used quite often in private, to produce information of its element to support their creative function when focusing on making contact with the external world.

    A person will often have just as sophisticated an understanding of this function as his or her leading function. Unlike the ignoring function it plays a major part in a person's worldview, since as the vulnerable function of one's dual it requires especially delicate attention. Thus, when a person is given information regarding the element in the demonstrative function by someone else, they will tend to take it as obvious information that is irrelevant to completely focus on. One will often use the demonstrative function to defend and further support their beliefs made in the vulnerable function.
    By 'playing intellectual games', I think ILIs are actually mocking Ti. The demonstrative function is one of the strongest after all, but not valued, so it's not surprising to me that an ILI would challenge someone else's logical structure. An ILI would be able to easily find the flaws in another's Ti system and criticize it, and if immature, they'd probably add insult to injury.

    Tbh I think this is part of the reason why ILIs seem to have garnered a reputation for being 'mean' in the socionics community (which I think is predominantly Ti-Fe). Understandably, Ti-valuers don't want their system to be attacked lol.

    I don't agree that they'll be constantly testing or riddling people; however, I do think that this type typically has no problem with disagreeing and pointing out flaws, and either unintentionally or intentionally, coming across as harsh due to Fe-polr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jroc View Post
    By 'playing intellectual games', I think ILIs are actually mocking Ti. The demonstrative function is one of the strongest after all, but not valued, so it's not surprising to me that an ILI would challenge someone else's logical structure. An ILI would be able to easily find the flaws in another's Ti system and criticize it, and if immature, they'd probably add insult to injury.

    Tbh I think this is part of the reason why ILIs seem to have garnered a reputation for being 'mean' in the socionics community (which I think is predominantly Ti-Fe). Understandably, Ti-valuers don't want their system to be attacked lol.

    I don't agree that they'll be constantly testing or riddling people; however, I do think that this type typically has no problem with disagreeing and pointing out flaws, and either unintentionally or intentionally, coming across as harsh due to Fe-polr.
    Hitting the nail on the head I'd say. Hell, Jung himself was an IEI so - was his bag but I digress. I don't think the folks actually mind their systems being challenged so much as seeing them getting defied with positive results IRL. A "universalist" ethic dislikes seeing a "particularistic" ethic playing out better overall.

    This is why the dichotomy of the quadras plays out as it does. From my end us Gamma's are totally particularistic whereas Alphas are totally universalist. - and - all share one common factor/assumption. There is only one true and possible reality. Only one or two (give or take) possible optimal outcomes. Likewise, there is a single "best" way to do something given the factors we're actually dealing with/know about. Efficiency matters more than it probably ought to for a Gamma.

    It's crystalized in our particular war against the Alphas but it gets a bit muddled in the war between Beta and Delta. We Gammas can and do agree with both on several points but it's all about that implementation. They have a foot in both pools, but the angles those pools approach situations is similarly diametrically opposed. So they're either annoyed by or appreciative of our efforts to help them, but end of the day we're still not fully "getting it" from their end and the sentiment is shared.

    The other two quadra types get at least a bit of what we're going for, but that last one... Gah! So close, so close!​ Yet so far. Oh so very far....

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Would you elaborate on this?
    Not them but I can elaborate. Have you ever read "The 48 Laws of Power" by Robert Greene? His supposition of all of us being "trapped in court" resonated with me quite strongly because it's obviously true.

    To elaborate: We are all trapped, one way or another, in what amounts to a facsimile of the "court" of a European monarchy/empire. Office politics, family feuds, your own network of friends/acquaintances, etc. It's all a great game. A game you cannot avoid playing.

    How? Why? Because even your attempts to "not play" translate into rather viable and potentially recommendable strategies for playing it! For instance, take my strategy. I don't care. I've hit fuck it. Someone asks me a question I'll give them the most direct and honest answer that comes to mind and I don't give a flying FUCK if I insult them in the process. Suicidal right? Well, not really. See, that gets you a rather coveted "reputation" within the court (a thing you had best establish fast and early if you want to win the game). You're one of the few (perhaps only) people possessing the virtue of "honesty" they know.

    The smart and unbroken will perceive how valuable you are and, if they become king somehow, will reward you most richly for being the kind of asshole who had the balls to tell them how and where they were about to make a major mistake.

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    Most people who do not gamble think that casinos are places where luck plays a decisive role. In fact, many even believe that the very word "gambling" implies a competition whose outcome is largely or entirely determined by luck. This is a belief that is generally incorrect: people certainly play for money and games such as chess in which luck plays virtually no role, and many popular classic casino games such as blackjack, sports betting, and poker require the active application of strategy, not just elements of luck. The Internet has taken smart gambling to a whole new, much higher level. And playing wolfwonner has convinced me of that once again.
    Last edited by JackDerian; 01-23-2023 at 08:27 PM.

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